Jon Jones vs the UFC heavyweight division
by ~Peregrine on Feb 19, 2012 1:00 PM EST
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FanPost edited and promoted to the front page by Geno Mrosko.
Jon Jones is the polarizing UFC light heavyweight champion and widely regarded as the 2011 "Fighter of the Year" after sporting a 4-0 record with wins over three previous division champs. Despite some strong competition for the belt in the works for 2012 (see: Evans, Rashad, Henderson, Dan), many are already looking for bigger and better challenges.
They don't get any bigger than the UFC heavyweight division.
Towering over the light heavyweight division, the man known as "Bones" sports the UFC's longest reach at 84.5 inches, already putting him ahead of any potential heavyweight challenger. But how does he really stack up? Which UFC heavyweights can give the 205-pound champion a proper staredown?
A more detailed look after the jump
Let's take a look at how "Bones" measures up.
He recently stated 240-pounds would be an ideal weight for him at heavyweight. He is 6'4'' and sports the previously mentioned 84.5 inch reach. We'll look at each measurement in detail:
240-pounds: You may be surprised to learn that "old school" heavyweights like Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (239-pounds), Mirko Filipovic (220-pounds) and even Roy Nelson (246-pounds) have no advantage over Jones. Even the chiseled Cheick Kongo (235-pounds) can't compare on the scales.
6'4'' Height: Of 31 fighters currently on the UFC heavyweight roster, only eight would be looking down on Jones at the weigh-ins. Four of those only have an extra inch on him, being listed at 6'5''. The last heavyweight champ taller than "Bones" was none other than the affable Tim Sylvia.
84.5 inch reach: We already know he has the longest reach in the UFC, but it may surprise you to know that other heavyweight monsters like Brendan Schaub (79.5 inch), Ben Rothwell (80 inch) and Gabriel Gonzaga (76 inch) come in with a sizable disadvantage here.
So that raises the question of who is close enough on paper to negate the genetic gifts of Jonny "Bones" Jones? Here's my list:
Frank Mir: Slightly behind Jones at 6'3" and a 79-inch reach, he may be able to negate some of that weighing in at 260-pounds (20 up on Jones). I would say neither fighter has a clear advantage on paper here.
Stefan Struve: The "Skyscraper" towers over Jones at 6'11'' and sports a similar 84-inch reach. Struve also gets the nod on the scales at 256-pounds and growing. On paper, Jones would have to look elsewhere to make up for this disadvantage.
Matt Mitrione: A fighter who holds the unique "genetic gift" trait, which probably helped in his NFL days. "Meathead" Is a respectable 6'3'' with a solid 82-inch reach. He also gets the nod at 255-pounds.
Shane Carwin: "The Engineer" has been in need of repairs for a wonky back, but not too long ago was considered the "other" superbeast of the UFC heavyweight division along with the recently retired Brock Lesnar. However, Carwin is a bit smaller at 6'2'' and a decent 80-inch reach. His only advantage is on the scale where he last came in at 256-pounds.
Antonio Silva: "Bigfoot" looks as daunting as the "Skyscraper" on paper at 6'4'' and an 83-inch reach. Cutting down to the 265-pound limit means Silva is one of the few who would actually look intimidating standing next to Jones.
Alistair Overeem: Known for being in the Sexy and I Know It music video -- oh and maybe those championships in MMA and kickboxing -- the horse meat fueled number one contender is a monster at 6'3'' with an 81-inch reach. Tipping the scales at 263-pounds has the "tale of the tape" in his favor for this hypothetical showdown.
----------
From the above list, Carwin, Mitrione and Mir can consider themselves comparable to Jones without a clear cut advantage for either party. Silva and Struve have clear size advantages, but we know that there are many other intangibles (speed, skill and so on) that could dramatically change our presumptions on these fictitious bouts. It is my personal belief that Overeem may really be the only heavyweight that would be truly intimidating (pre-fight, at least) to Jones if he ever decides to make the leap.
That's not to discredit the other powerhouses of the heavyweight division. A quick rundown of some other (current) major players in the division:
Cain Velasquez: "Brown Pride" has the skill, but hardly measures up on paper at 6'1'' with a 77-inch reach and weighing in around 249-pounds.
Fabricio Werdum: Comparable to Jones but no real advantage at 6'4'' with a short 77-inch reach and weighing in at 246-pounds.
Junior dos Santos: The champion of the heavyweight division stands tall at 6'4'' but also sports the much shorter 77-inch reach. The scales for the Brazilian knockout artist only read 240-pounds!
-----
Probably a good time to stress that this is (largely) only looking at physical measurements, but it clearly shows some very interesting numbers, namely the fact that "Bones" measures up quite well against every single heavyweight in the UFC.
What do you think, Maniacs? Should Jones move up to heavyweight? And if he does, who could stop him?
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I don’t see Jones even being competitive with JDS or Overeem at this stage of his career even if we are talking about a hypothetical 230/240 lb Jones.
Jones power in his hands is quite laughable compared to these two monsters. They literally can walk through everything he has and just brutalize him like a man beating a child. Similar to the way Jones handles LHWs.
Jones wrestling is so good because he is obviously skilled, but he’s much longer than everyone and that helps his leverage out a lot.
Overeem and JDS are both as tall as Jones, and so help me god, if Cain can’t ragdoll JDS , and Brock can’t ragdoll Overeem, Jones ain’t ragdolling shit.
Jones vs JDS & Cain
These are the guys who are actually his size. If he can’t beat them, he has no business on any Pound-for-pound list.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
the point is to say who is the best for their size.
It’s purely speculative imagining who’s better if size could be removed from the equation. . Obviously Brock Lesnar would destroy Dominic Cruz, but which of them is actually the better fighter…if size wasn’t a factor. The only way to rationally compare this is to say which is more dominant against guys his own size (or bigger). Beating up guys significantly smaller than you scores you ZERO creds in the P4P game. Since Bones hasn’t fought anyone his own size, his dominance against equally matched opponents can only be speculated upon. So to even be mentioned at P4P Bones needs to start fighting guys at least his own size. JDS is closer to Bones’ size than anyone at 205. If Jones beats JDS we’ve got something to talk about. Beating up Shogun or Rashad 100 times still gets him Zero creds cause those guys are too much smaller than him to speak to the issue of how good he really is. How much credit do you give Machida for beating BJ Penn, or Brock for beating up Randy? Fights like that (and Bone’s entire career at 205) are irrellevant to the P4P discussion.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I would take Bones over JDS right now
I think… I’d love to see it
Odd thing happened today... had to re-sgn up for MMAMania. No clue why!
by PHISH_NATION on Feb 19, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't.
if it was allowed JDS would literally murder Jon.
by RoBerto. on Feb 19, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you're delusional. Mir has far better technique than Jones
better Jits and yes, better boxing. Bones’ has better judo/clinch technique, but his striking is actually pretty sloppy and his striking defense especially (which Machida clearly exposed). He depends entirely on his insane 11-inch reach advantage, lengthy limbs and insanely wide base. As Peregrine indicated, those reach and leverage advantages would be considerably lessened against HWs. Bones would have speed, agression, and an advantage in takedowns. But Mir has more technical boxing skills and is lethal off his back. We’ve seen how easily Jones can maintain top control on a 220 pounder, but can he do that against someone with 40lbs more muscle and a world-class guard game like Mir? Who knows!
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Is Jones starting to believe his own hype......
…..or is he really as hiumble as he makes out?
I get the feeling that with every impressive win (and lets admit it there have been loads) he is starting to look upon himself as a LHW Anderson Silva.
He reportedly wanted to go up to HW this year but Dana said no! What I get out of that is:
1. Jones thinks he better than all the LHW’s and wants to prove that he is better than the HW’s.
2. Dana knows he will get beaten regularly up there and that would be bad for business.
Did you just question Jon Jones' striking defense?
That’s hilarious. He’s a champion who’s never been dropped or knocked-down in his UFC career and you’re questioning his striking defense. You know shit about MMA.
Jones striking defense is sloppy as hell
if he didn’t have an ELEVEN INCH reach advantage, most of his opponents would have used his head as a speed bag by now. His arms are down, he’s leaning forward chin-first and his feet are placed 5 feet apart. For all his flashiness and “unorthodoxy”, his technique is shit. He depends completely on the fact that he can hit guys from a foot outside their range.
You take the best marksman in the world and give him a pistol and put him a hundred yards out from a 12-year old amateur possum hunter with a sniper rifle and you’re gonna have a dead marksman and a triumphant pubescent, which is exactly what we saw in Shogun vs Bones. It doesn’t matter if the kid misses his first 20 shots cause he’s turkey shooting from well outside the range of his opponent.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
truth
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
This is a late reply but I just saw comment.
-Stefan Struve, Kendall Grove and George Roop are all examples of guys with big height, reach and size advantages over their opponents and yet none of them are elite fighters.
-Also, Jones actually does a good job of keeping his hands up: Case in point: The body shot that knocked Shogun out. He kept his right hand up, even as he dropped his other hand for the liver punch.
-If I remember correctly, Jones only really leans forward when his opponent is backing up and he’s throwing power punches but he does a good job of staying out of range when he does that.
-Jones’ feet do not stand 5 feet apart. That’s just ridiculous. Either you’re exaggerating or you have no fight experience and understanding of basic length measurement.
-He also does not hit guys from a foot out of their range. The difference in maximum striking distances is only half of the reach advantage. So, against Rampage, Jones only had a 5" to 6" advantage in maximum striking distance even though he had a 12" reach advantage.
-That analogy you used is so misguided, convoluted and fallacious that I’m not even going to directly respond to it.
-Jones does not rely completely on his reach but it is a big reason why he likes to strike from distance and throws so many straight punches and push/side kicks. Reach is a physical advantage and Jones does a good job of using his physical advantages. The same way that fighters like Dos Santos and Frankie Edgar use their physical tools, like their quickness, to their advantage.
-Lastly, you don’t need striking defense when your opponent is on his back and your feeding him a steady diet of elbows and hammerfists.
Oh, it got better when I kept reading.
Mir has better boxing? Are you talking about the same Mir who was outboxed by a 125 year-old Big Nog? Are you talking about the same Jon Jones that comfortably out-struck Machida in the second round? Like I said before, you know shit about MMA.
I think Mir would rip one of Jone's arms right out of its socket.
You mind your own damn business.
by jestermarcus on Feb 19, 2012 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
boxing? you're definitely delusional.
you need to touch Mir once for him to crap himself. It would be similar to Vera vs Mir, he almost got ko’d by big nog FFS, Jon is probably 20 levels above someone like that and the jump in athleticism would kill one of the slowest hw’s today frank mir.
Jones is faster and more athletic, but he’s sloppy. Mir’s boxing is much crisper.His standup is several dimesions past what it was when he fought Vera, which was the lowest point in his career when he was really fat and coming back from his motorcycle accident. That Mir is long gone. Mir would be a tough test for Bones. There are definitely ways that Bones could win, but Mir is much more technically sound as a striker and submission artist.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Jon jones has genetic size and dimension advantages ..
That being said in the hw division there be monsters , Jon doesn’t want anything to do with that division unless its a smaller less talented heavyweight for a one or two time fight . There’s a reason he keeps his weight low to be able to make the cuts to 205 because if he goes all anthony Johnson then he won’t be able to get back to 205 effectively and he’ll be a tasty morsel in the hw division since he’d be there permanently .
We need him at 205 and hell stay there cause he’s not stupid ..
" What would Sakuraba do ? " - Ivan Menjivar
by wooly shambler on Feb 19, 2012 4:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I do say let Jones test the waters eventually as A. Silva did. Put him in there against a HW like Carwin and see how he does. Maybe Antonio Silva, Josh Barnett or Daniel Cormier. A 6-10 ranked HW fighter. We will have a better idea after that.
Of all the match ups, I think Reem would be the worst for Jones. Reem is long enough that Jones couldnt elbow him from full guard, he is far stronger, far more dangerous striking, close enough in reach to blast him, more experienced and the knees from hell.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Agreed
Jon jones would be a good heavyweight…not a great one IMO but you never know I just think like p123 said jones ant taking these guys down he wouldn’t stand a chanc against JDS hand speed (which I believe is some of the fastest in MMA) nor would he stand a chance of throwing his spinning elbows half hearted leg kicks to a man such as THE REEM with such a vaunted striking game….all this said I’d like to see him take the jump I like fighters who challenge themselves unlike GSP
by uncleCreepy1 on Feb 25, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think he would have trouble against Mir and Carwin.
But I dont see him beating Overeem, Velasquez, Dos Santos.
Everyone else I could see him beating
I think Mir, Cain and Carwin give him trouble for sure
although I would still pick Jones…. The two that would really make me think are JDS and overoids…
I didn’t include him, but I would think Brock could have been serious trouble for bones.
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
REC! Good post, it was fun to play the what if game with the HW's.
I would love to see him move up mostly just to watch him get knocked the fuck out! I see him doing well at HW, but not beating them all. His wresting is so good, but he’s so much bigger than those other LHW’s. A slight size advantage in wrestling can make the bigger guy look so much better than he really is. IMO (as much as I fn hate him) sonnen’s wresting is better. He throws guys around that are his size or even bigger, same with Cain. The former is probably on juice most of the time so who fn knows. Actually most of them probably are, lol!
Jones would be an idiot to go to HW. He is perfect for LHW. Going to HW will result in him getting GTFO and injured most likely.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
yeah, it would be stupid of him to be a man and pick on guys his own size.
right now he’s a Doberman in the Collie division. Why would he want to go fight other Dobermans,Rothweilers, and German Shepherds when he can fight legends like Lassie & Benji that are half his size? ….unless of course he still has his testicles!
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
OK
but Jones makes the weight every time, is extremely dominant and is making tons of cash. Why would he go to a weight class where his reach and size will be nullified? At HW, he will be a lanky but small build guy. Other fighters will have FAR more punching power, one shot and it is over. Can you imagine Jones having to contend with a striker with the strength of Reem or Shane Carwin or JDS? There are quite a few bad ass wrestlers with serious striking power at HW. They will all give Jones trouble. Josh Barnett or Cormier would be dangerous for Jones I guarantee. Bigfoot Silva would have a HUGE size advantage, Mir and Werdum would be interesting match ups.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
are you kidding???
Why would he want to go fight other Dobermans,Rothweilers, and German Shepherds when he can fight legends like Lassie & Benji that are half his size?
That’s easy…..HE’S GETTING PAID!!!. What would be stupid would be walking away from the boatloads of cash he’ll be making with every successful title defense. Jones is only 24 years old….he has the metabolism to make the cut, and he has plenty of years ahead of him to fight in the HW division. He’d be an idiot not to hold the belt as long as possible. If his size makes it an unfair advantage, then so be it….he has a chance to set himself up for life, anyone who claims they would do it differently is full of shit.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
Yeah, it would be dumb for him to go to heavyweight and fight at 220 pounds.
But he wouldn’t be 220. He would likely bulk up to 240. He has the height, he just needs the weight.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
nope. Different interviews.
in the one you’re talking about he said 240 is what he would fight at at HW. In the ones I’m talking about which were a year or so ago, he said he currently weighs 240 and is still growing and wouldn’t be able to make the cut to 205 for more than a couple more years.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Dont worry JBJ is comin for that ass
No one at HW is good enough to beat him. Quite frankly HW is laughable. Less skills, less speed, lesser cardio than LHW. More power sure but wont matter the way i see it. Pretty much JDS and Cain will be competitive unless Cormier comes over to the UFC. Other than that, the rest of the division would look comical against him. No worries, i get the feeling he’ll start his HW campaign at the end of this year.
Jon Bones Jones is the Greatest MMA fighter to ever grace the sport.
Big Nog for Life
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Feb 18, 2012 11:38 PM EST reply actions
The end of this HL videos sums it all up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-SPuMhGyjQ
Jon Bones Jones is the Greatest MMA fighter to ever grace the sport.
Big Nog for Life
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Feb 19, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
so do you think he wrestles Overeem? Or uses speed to out strike him?
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
I lost all respect for you with your inclusion of Mitrione
Jones absolutely crushes Mitrione in every conceivable way.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
Mir is where it happened for me.
Let me just say that he’s garbage and yes that’s my personal bias / hate.
Jon Bones Jones is the Greatest MMA fighter to ever grace the sport.
Big Nog for Life
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Feb 18, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
The only way Mir survives is if he flukes a kneebar
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
100% agree on your comment
"I'm gonna be the champion till the day I decide not to be. And that isn't any time soon." - Brock Lesnar at UFC 106
by hairybumcrack on Feb 19, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
ur tears taste sweet
Pro Sig record:16-6
1 Month sig bet with 10th Degree Whitebelt that DJ does NOT win the FLW tournament
Sig bet with KaleJohnCox on Alves-Kamp. ALVES
2 month Sig/Pic bet with theoregonduck on Poirier-Zombie. POIRIER
"I dont pay attention to all that artsy crap. I only like vaginas and violence"
i included him because he's comparable in size (or slightly larger) than Bones
not that he would win.. those are the ONLY fighters in the HW division that are not at a size disadvantage to Jones
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
I really enjoyed this write up.
Gotta give credit to someone who finds all the information and does the thinking for everyone else.
Now, count up your crimes!
you lost me as soon as you called schaub a hw monster.
Anderson Silva is going to retire Sonnen in Brazil!
Women are at home with their husbands and children. Whores are at the club getting smacked by the Reem.
This is an interesting post
I do disagree with mentioning Struve’s reach advantage though. He has height and reach but doesn’t really use them very well.
no doubt... He is also super slow. Bones is as fast as lightning
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
Oh yeah, fast as LIGHTNIN’. He is faster than Aldo, stronger than Lesnar, smarter than Einstein, has better technique than any black belt on earth, he could outbox Klitschko, outwrestle the Russian Bear. Leap tall buildings in a single bound!!!
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
He also has a 14-inch penis
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
14" in CIRCUMFERENCE !
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw
by Fat Daddy Doobs on Feb 19, 2012 2:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Jones hype is hilarious
He has already won the HW title, and actually doing it has become pretty much a formality of when he decides to whip the pitiful HW division. MMA fans are so fickle, it really never ceases to amaze me.
Jones would have mighty problems with many HWs, including many of the SF HWs coming over very soon. Barnett, Cormier would both be very tough match ups for Jones. How about a 300 lb Bigfoot Silva? No sweat. How about JDS, or Reem? These two would completely destroy Jones. Carwin would destroy Jones utterly. Mir would most likely beat Jones.
You all think Jones has low striking power at LHW, what do you think his power will look like at HW? Silly kids…
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
To be fair
This guy made it pretty clear he is just saying how Jones physically stacks up against the heavyweights he might well be fighting soon.
All hype is over the top, because it’s hype. But in reality it is a bit silly to suggest that Jones isn’t something special.
this is a no brainier
After seeing Jones first 3 fights in the UFC you could see that he will be the champ in the LHW div. and also the HW div. After seeing his brothers of course. good day
So you think Jones would beat JDS, Overeem, Cain, Carwin, Barnett, Cormier, Mir, Werdum? I think Jones could very well lose to all these guys. I would bet JDS, Overeem, Cain and Carwin would destroy Jones. One shot and it would be over with these guys. Jones doesn’t have that kind of power.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Come one Crizzy.......
Carwin would destroy Jones
Really?? That might be one of the most ignorant comments i’ve ever seen. Did you see Shane Carwin’s last fight? Jones would annihilate Carwin. The hype over Jones is valid….his talent and upside is beyone anyone in MMA, and his performance over his last 10 fights completely support that statement. You reference power, but you’re not considering that when Jones does fight as a HW, he’ll actually be a Heavy Weight. This kid is a physical specimen….he’ll probably come in closer to 250 than 240lbs, with a considerable reach advantage over all those guys you’ve listed. He’s shown exceptional striking and grappling…..you are without a doubt overlooking his talent.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
I stand by that one all the way. JDS was a horrible match up for Carwin. Carwin is far stronger than Jones, has a rock solid chin, is a great wrestler and far stronger than Jones. On top of that, he wouldn’t respect Jones’ power at all and would end up landing a bomb right on Jones’ chin.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
oops did I forget to mention he is stronger?
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Jones would maul Carwin
Especially since Shane has no skills to speak of.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
He has the skill to barely touch your face and make you go unconscious. He has elite level wrestling skills. He is strong as an ox and has a very good clinch. Those are all pretty good assets to have.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
He had that power 20 lbs of roid muscle and 2 back surgeries ago. Jones would make him look like he is moving in slow motion.
yes sir
the superbeast wrestler era if the UFC is dead (Brock/carwin)
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
Elite level wrestling skills?
REALLY? Elite?
How do you figure?
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
by ViolentMike on Feb 21, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
ummm….National Champion collegiate wrestler….took Brock Lesnar down repeatedly with ease.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I dunno
Not to doubt your larger point about Carwin’s chances, but he took Brock Lesnar down with his fists.
by Scott Whitaker on Apr 25, 2012 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think any of his punches would come even remotely close to Jones’s chin. Jones could outbox Carwin all night long. There are others that will present a challenge to Jones at HW, but just stop with Carwin, he’s awful…
And with regard to your comment below that he’s stronger?? Again, you can’t say that, you have no idea. Have you ever seen Jones fight at 245, maybe 250lb? Look at his brother for christ’s sake. Even if Carwin is stronger, his strength advantage will be nowhere near as big as the speed advantage that Jones has over Carwin. Strength means nothing without the speed to compliment it.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
Wow, Carwin loses to the best fighter in the world and now as you say “he’s awful…” . That is a ridiculous statement.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
He absolutely looked awful in his last fight, and JDS isn't the best fighter in the world.....
Who has Carwin beaten? Frank Mir, that’s a quality win, good for him. Who else? He lost to Brock Lesnar, which says a lot. Aside from Gonazaga and Wellisch, i’ve never heard of any the guys he’s beaten. Jones has not just beaten, but finished the likes of Rua, Machina, Jackson. Jones could walk into the cage at his current fight-weight and beat Carwin…….once he actually trains to fight at HW, forget about it…….
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
Carwin did look like shit in one fight
but before that he finished 12 guys in the first round, most of them in under 2min.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I understand…..but with the exception of wellisch and Gonzaga, they were absolute nobodies. Jones has been fighting, and finishing the top guys in the division. Carwin has stepped up to fight the top guys in the Division twice, and he lost both times.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
No credit for being the first to expose Brock Lesnar? Carwin wins that fight if he hadn’t into shutdown mode after that first round.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Yes, she should have won...
but at the end of the day…..he didn’t. Same thing goes for the Jones Machida fight….a lot of people look at the first round and say that’s a big hole in Jones game…but Machida couldn’t seal the deal either.
Don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying that Jones will run thru the HW Division with ease……I think JDS and Cain will be extremely difficult tests for him. In fact, i think Cain is actually the guy to beat him, just because i haven’t seen how Jones deals with a dominant wrestler with brutal GnP…..I’m just saying that Carwin isn’t the example to lead with…..I think he was exposed in those losses, as he’s not too difficult to beat if you can avoid the 1st round bombs. Jones can easily do that with his length.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
Please copy this sig if you agree
depends which Carwin shows up.
If Carwin comes out timid like he did against JDS, Bones will likely pick him apart. But if he comes out like he did against Brock, Jones would be extremely unlikely to survive the first round.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Did you see Shane Carwin’s last fight?
yeah, did you see his13 fights before that. The only way Jones wins that fight is if he spends the whole first round just running away and tiring Carwin out. Carwin is not only much stronger than Bones, he’s also a vastly superior grappler with 10x more punching power. If he gets within reach of Bones in the first round, Bones is going out. Of course, Carwin could gas out or fight a stupid gameplan like he didagainst Junior but make no mistake, Carwin has the tools to wreck ANYONE.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
He wouldn't need to run
He keeps Carwin at bay with front kicks, and takes him down during the clinch. Easy win for Jones.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
beyond easy.........
look at the dudes that Jones has beat…..Machida, Rua, Rampage……and he didn’t just beat them, he completely dominated and finished them. Like he’s gonna struggle with Shane fuckin Carwin???
People keep talking about how much stronger all the current HW’s are, yet nobody has even SEEN Jones enter a fight weighing 240-250lbs? Who says they’ll be stronger?? Jones is a genetic freak of nature….if he can make such a significant cut to stay at 205, I can only imagine what will happen when he goes the other way. Shane Carwin……unreal.
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Precisely
Jones wouldn’t be fighting at his LHW weight. He’d be fighting after some 3 month diet of putting on weight and muscle. I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets up close to 250 for the fight. But even if he stayed at 220-230, he wouldn’t be outclassed. His wrestling base is so vastly superior to the LHW division, I suspect he could hang with the best wrestlers at HW.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
he destroyed lyoto? is that why he lost the first round
RESTORE THE ROAR 2011 DETROIT LIONS <----- best D-line in football
Yes, he destroyed Lyoto.......
He was able to choke out the “All elusive Karate Kid” with a standing guillotine…..do you not see how special that is?
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do you realize youre still ignoring how unimpressive he was when he lost the first round
and what couldve happened if it went to a third
" What would Sakuraba do ? " - Ivan Menjivar
by wooly shambler on Feb 21, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno
Jones’ kicks work well to keep distance against smaller guys, but they’re not power kicks. I have a feeling actual HWs (ones that are too big to make light heavy) could walk through them.
by Scott Whitaker on Apr 25, 2012 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure is
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 19, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
yes he sure is
and I actually knew it.. Had it in my notes, but somehow typed the wrong number… I blame the schools…
thanks guys
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
No worries, it happens
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 19, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Both 205 & HW would be much more exciting if Bones moves up.
Remember how exciting LHW division was before the Elephant entered the room. It was a shark tank and the belt was a revolving door for years. Now you’ve got this behemoth in their mucking it up and making the greatest legends of the sport look like little kids fighting their daddy. I’m not interested in seeing Bones embarrass any more guys half his size. He would add a very exciting new element to the HW division and face fair competition there, and then the LHW belt could go back to being the most hotly contested prize in MMA.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
So LHW is still really good when Bones dominates everyone, but MW sucks because Anderson Silva dominates everyone? Solid.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
No, LHW title is boring now because of Bones. Just like MW has been boring for years because Anderson doesn't have the balls to fight other legends his own size at 205.
Bones should be fighting at HW. Andy should be at 205. Then both of those divisions get much more interesting. MW is thin and is gonna suck with or without Andy, but at least the title would be competitive if he were out of the picture. Plus, I think if Silva were gone, a lot of the smaller 205ers and big WWs would move to 185and make it more interesting. (Franklin, Fitch, Kos, Diaz, Hendo.)
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I wouldn't say the division is "Boring"....
because Jones puts on a helluva show……but let’s just say it completely lacks suspense……which it does as you point out. Nobody currently at LHW even comes close. Look at what he did to Machida……when was the last time you saw one of the best fighters in all of MMA get choked out by a standing guillotine? Ridiculous.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
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I agree but the nature of the game is that if they can make the weight and reign as champ, no reason to leave. GSP, Silva and Jones are staying put and making the big money as champ. I could see Silva fighting GSP or Jones before retiring as his last fight but that is about it.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
he'd be crazy to walk away from the paycheck....
don’t title holders get a cut of the PPV? I would take that paycheck all day long. If i’m Jon Jones, and the UFC wants me to fight at HW, i would make them pay me to do it. The more he wins at 205, the more bargaining power he has at contract time.
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nice article
I cant wait to see him the heavyweight division some day
The whole problem has to do with cutting weight
They could fix it but they don’t want to. If MMA forced fighters to compete at their natural weight then you’d have guys like Aldo fighting at 155, GSP at 185, Anderson Silva at 205 and Jones at 265. The only reason you see more natural competition in the heavyweight division (and why it seems so shallow) is because nobody cuts from a higher weight class to cheat.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
How is cutting weight cheating?
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
1) weight classes exist for the sole purpose of insuring that fighters do not have a significant size advantage over their opponents.
2) weight cutting exists solely for the purpose of circumventing the spirit of the law by exploiting a 24hr “loophole” between weigh-in to mask your actual size and drop to a lower weight in order to fight guys over whom you have a significant size advantage.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Interesting definition........
i’ve never seen that. Apparently everyone is cheating…..you sorta have to. With the exception of HW, all the current title holders have to cut weight…..except for maybe Edgar. I’m sure he has to cut, but it’s probably not nearly as dramatic as what Jones, Silva, GSP and Aldo have to cut.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
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Edgar doesn't cut weight
At least that’s what we’ve been told
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
Either that, or it's a really small weight cut.......
That’s one of the things i admire about Edgar….he’s typically smaller than the guys he’s fighting, yet he always wins. He kinda trumps the theory that you have to cut weight to be competitive in your division.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
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Edgar is the definition of P4P
Pro Sig record:16-6
1 Month sig bet with 10th Degree Whitebelt that DJ does NOT win the FLW tournament
Sig bet with KaleJohnCox on Alves-Kamp. ALVES
2 month Sig/Pic bet with theoregonduck on Poirier-Zombie. POIRIER
"I dont pay attention to all that artsy crap. I only like vaginas and violence"
that's the trajedy of it.
once a certain kind of “cheating” becomes common, guys who would never do it to gain an advantage end up having to do it just to reduce their disadvantage against all those who are doing it. You can see this in a lot of the PRIDE guys who came over, thinking cutting was unsportsmanlike and then finding themselves severely undersized in their own weight class and eventually having to cut just to remain competitive.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Wandy, Akiyama are 2 from PRIDEwho tried to hold out.
but I think there are a lot ofguys who cut because they have to, not because they want to. The sad thing is, except for the HWs, we seldom get to see fighters at their best. Everyone gets sucked into the cutting game whether they want to or not and sowe never see them fighting at their physical best. They either have to waste rediculous amounts of time and energy and rake their body over the coals to cut the weight, or they have to fight guys who have a big size advantage. It’s a dumbass system and the fans are the real losers because 1) we are lied to about the relative size of the fighters, told they are exactly the same size when there is often a 20 lbs or more difference. 2) We see them fighting after they’ve just put their bodies through a grueling dehydration/starvation ordeal instead of at their physical peak, plus they waste 1/3 of the time they could be training skills focussed on just getting down to their artificial weight.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
1) we are lied to about the relative size of the fighters, told they are exactly the same size when there is often a 20 lbs or more difference.
OFTEN a 20 lb difference in fighters? Often? Really? Name 5 examples where one fighter (non HW) was 20 lbs heavier than his opponent. You act like people rehydrate 50 lbs over night. That’s not the case. Adding 20-25 lbs is considered to be a lot. And seeing that the opponent also cut weight, how can there often be a 20 lb difference?
Maynard vs Frankie is one of the few that enters my mind.
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Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
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by ViolentMike on Feb 21, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
last weekend
Simpson vs Markes
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
by ShivanTiger on Feb 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
some of the first to jump to mind
Frankie vs Maynard
Stann vs Sonnen
Hardy vs St.Pierre
Forrest vs Franklin
Gustafsson vs Hamill
Bisping vs Akiyama
Rumble vs any other WW
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Stann is not an undersized MW. In fact, he was a LHW for the majority of his career
Hardy had 20 lbs on GSP? I don’t know about that…
I’ll give you Forrest vs Franklin
Hamill vs the goose? Which one weighed more?
Akiyama is a Japanese fighter fighting in America so he doesn’ t count.
Rumble vs a WW, well, that one I’ll give you.
So there is really only a couple of examples that we can think of over the past several years. Meanwhile, there have been like 1000 fights. So 5 out of 1000 doesn’t qualify as “often”. Has it happened? Sure. Is it the norm? NO
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Stann is the collossus
He dwarfed Sonnen, just as “Goose” dwarfed Hamill
those are just the ones where it was very visibly obvious and a big enough fight to be memorable.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
You think Stann was 20 lbs more than Sonnen?
No flipping way. Sonnen is a good sized MW who has fought many times at 205. In fact, some consider him to be one of the biggest and strongest MW"s out there. He definitely cuts weight. I’d say he puts back at least 15 lbs after weigh ins. So you think that Stann added well over 35 lbs between the weigh ins and the fight? I don’t even think that is humanly possible.
Also, Matt Hamill is a very solid 205er and The Goose is tall an lanky. I think that was just a matter of appearance.
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Akiyama is a Japanese fighter fighting in America so he doesn’ t count
truth
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
he doesn't count because he illustrates my point perfectly
He doesn’t want to cut weight and you see how undersized that makes him in the UFC where exploiting the 24 hr loophole with rediculous dehydration rituals has become normative. He is the proof that the system is broken. It makes no sense for all these fighters to be cutting 20 lbs just to keep up with other fighters cutting 20 lbs. If everybody stopped that ridiculous shit, we’d get to see fighters performing at their physical best, there’d be a lot less gassing out and fatigue and guys could focus their camps on skill-building instead of weight loss.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I don't like the system either
but there isn’t really a good way to go about changing it, that wouldn’t put stupid fighters that still try to cut in physical danger.
Maybe institute some sort of 10% rule, where the fighters need to get reweighed the afternoon of the fight and they can’t weigh more than 20% higher than their official weigh in number. So, a LHW that weighs in at 205, couldn’t weigh more than 225 on fight day. That would still give some leeway, but at the same time keep the mega weight cutters like Silva and A Johnson in their proper weight classes
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
they can’t weigh more than 20% higher than their official weigh in number
meant to type 10%
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
I think NJ already hasthat rule at 2%
Which sounds good to me, and is probably why a lot of fighters won’t fight in NJ, cause they can’t fight in “their own” weight class under those rules. If every state had that, guys would have to move up to a more appropriate weight class for their actual size and I think we’d see fighters performing at a much better level of strength and endurance.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
wouldn't be a bad idea really
weight them right before they fight
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
it would have to a secondary weigh in though
It’s not realistic to expect these guys not to cut any weight, some guys are stuck between weight classes. Like say Shogun, he isn’t big enough to be a HW. and it wouldn’t be right to not give him a chance to rehydrate over night.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
they really need a Cruiserweight division at 225
So many of the greats of all time are/were around 220-230, it’s silly that they have to choose to either cut to 205 or fight freakin’ giant monsters like Overeem, Bigfoot, & Brock.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
i agree
but it won’t happen until there are more HW fighters, it’s hard to steal from a division that is only 15 fighters deep
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
HW is growing and already deeper than MW
and a lot of the Cruisers would be guys coming up from 205, guys like Tito, Forrest, Bones, Gustafson, maybe Rampage.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
under the current system
none of those guys would go to cruiserweight, they don’t need to, they can all make 205. Cruiserweight would be the Stipe Miocics, Big Countries, Pat Barry’s the HW’s that come in around 240 and under right now.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
I thought we were talking about after the fix
with the secondary weigh-in in place, many/most of the current LHWs would have to move up or cut muscle mass.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
yeah, I realize that after I posted my comment
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Yamamoto UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
by ShivanTiger on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
all i need to watch is round one of him vs lyoto to know its to soon for him to beat some of these animals in the heavyweight division
RESTORE THE ROAR 2011 DETROIT LIONS <----- best D-line in football
so true! Lyoto exposed Jone's sloppy technique.
and how much of his success depends on his size advantage.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
they keep saying hes one win away from cleaning out the division but really hes only fought 3 of the top guys and should need to win a few more before even considering this
RESTORE THE ROAR 2011 DETROIT LIONS <----- best D-line in football
he finished 3 of the top 5 LHWs...maybe of all time.
Unless Rashad really knows some secret hole in his game that we haven’t seen, I don’t really see any 205er posing a serious threat to Bones. Maybe Gustaffson in a couple years, but really, if he beats Hendo and Rashad….what else is left for him unless Anderson steps up (which he won’t).
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Jones is a very skilled and gifted fighter. Jones has a number of weaknesses though. i would say his legs are a weakness, I would say he does not respond well to violent striking. Rampage had him running scared a couple times. He keeps fighters at bay with his reach but that advantage will be far less at HW. Add to that, the HW’s punch with much more devastating power, and HWs are generally pretty good wrestlers and that is not a great combo for Jones. I would love to see it. I am rooting that he goes to HW ASAP. There are a bunch of big name fights to be made there. The UFC would love to be able to promote Jones as the HW champ, it would be much more marketable, the general public loves HWs
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
Struve vs. Jones. Though I have little doubt that Struve loses this fight, I think it would be really interesting to see. Struve inexplicably still refuses to use his size and reach to his advantage. If he did, he would be much more effective. Perhaps he is too slow to use a jab effectively, not sure.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
let him fight sturve
Think it would be a pretty good fight
by Ftash on Feb 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Thought this is what they were pushing . .
When they took that photo of the two of them together a few months ago! Would be interesting.
would be awesome
but I honestly think struve wouldn’t know what hit him. Jones would have an epic speed advantage (just my opinion)
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
During the promotional conference for Jones vs Evans...
He said he usually goes into camp out of shape but for his fight with Evans he’ll come into camp more fit…he said was around 225lbs currently…and will fight at around 215lbs (so much for that huge size difference everyone babbles about)
Point being…at 225lbs he’s in decent fighting shape, not optimal fighting shape..to compete to the best of his ability at HW he needs to put on like 20lbs and train with the new weight long enough to get used to it
by Starr788 on Feb 19, 2012 3:51 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I find it hilarious when people say, Jones can just easily go from fighting at 215 to fighting at close to 250. That is ludicrous. If you go from 215 to 250 that fast, you will NOT be putting on fighting weight, it will be water and fat weight. Muscle builds slowly. Jones can maybe put on 8 lbs of muscle per year. That will leave him at 250 in several years if he is genetically freakish. Reem took like 5 years to put on that much muscle.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
I personally find it hard to believe that Jones fights at 215...
Being such a young guy, 10lbs is nothing when it comes to cutting…
Heck, Rumble was 211 vs. Vitor (although we all know how well that went…….)
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
Why do you find it hard to believe?
Jones is tall and slim…he’s not too bulky or muscular…he’s strong though, and uses leverage very well
by Starr788 on Feb 19, 2012 4:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
More he loses leverage very well
Part of this is because he is incredibly talented, and part of this is because he is incredibly long. That’s where his reach comes in. The guy is strong but there are definitely stronger LHWs (Rampage and probably Forrest are both a whole level above Jones in that department).
His training weight was 219 for his Machida fight
This was still weeks out from the fight, before dieting down and then the water cut. He probably fought at 220 max. Believe it or not, not everyone can make giant cuts. In fact water cuts over 10 pounds are extremely dangerous if you don’t know what you’re doing.
I don’t think Jones needs 5 years to fill out, but he won’t do it in a year either, or probably even two, unless he wants to get on the juice (if I had to guess I would guess Jones is clean).
His legs are so skinny
I wonder how much weight he could put on just from bulking up his quads
Thanks for the rec's and front page Geno
hope it didn’t take you too long to deal with the grammatical disaster I spawned
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
He's a natural LHW
I don’t know why he’d want to go to HW. Just like Andy likes to stay at Middleweight. You always want to go with the lightest weight you can cut down to. Jones never has issues cutting to LHW, so to me that means it’s his natural weight. That being said, he has stated he wouldn’t have a problem going to HW. Dana is the one who doesn’t want it – he likes to keep his champions at their current weight to create a “bigger than life” image.
maybe there's an epic payday in his future
If he manages to fight 4 times in the next 12 months (and win), a HW title fight for some monster $$$ could be good motivation….
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
Once again, the UFC has their star at LHW. To move him will only cost them a star in a weight division. Not only that, if Jones moves to HW, he will not be as dominant. Too easy to get KO’ed at HW, and Jones’ striking isn’t as good as he gets credit for. A 10" reach advantage is like fighting your little brother.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
agree about the reach advantage...it's rediculous
there’s no way to accurately assess his actual skills when he has that kind of physical advantage. I look awesome and supernatural too when I’m sparring my 12 year old nephew.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Whats funny about this thread is there is a middle weight that can beat Jon
" What would Sakuraba do ? " - Ivan Menjivar
by wooly shambler on Feb 19, 2012 6:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A.S. is far and away one of my favourites
But I really think he would get GnP into obliteration by Jones… I would wager Bones by stoppage if it ever happened
you should totally twitter that on your facebook
You're high Wooly....
Whats funny about this thread is there is a middle weight that can beat Jon
Put the pipe down……there’s no way in hell Chael Sonnen beats Jon Jones.
Mania is not quite Mania without the Arm Bar Bandit. Come back soon, ABB
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You don’t think there is ANY way Chael beats Jones? Hmmm. It seems to me that Sonnen would be pretty likely to get Jones down which we have not seen. It would be interesting. Plus Sonnen would have plenty of steroid bulk he could put on before the fight.
"He's got a great package... and an unusual one!" Joe Rogan (of Lyoto Machida)
there is a reason
Chael doesn’t fight at LHW anymore.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
Very unlikely! While Bones isn’t nearly the striker that Anderson is, he has much better grappling defense, rediculous leverage, solid judo. He’s a lot further out of reach of Sonnen’s double leg and has an insanely wide base and high hips, making him VERY hard to take down, even from the clinch. .
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
6’4’’ Height: Of 31 fighters currently on the UFC heavyweight roster, only eight would be looking down on Jones at the weigh-ins. Four of those only have an extra inch on him, being listed at 6’5’’. The last heavyweight champ taller than “Bones” was none other than the affable Tim Sylvia.
This seemed kind of like cherry-picking, so I decided to look into it, and actually I only counted seven that are taller than Jones…. and another nine with the exact same height as him…. and another four that Jones only has an inch on. If you want to cherry pick statistics, 6’4" technically is the median height, and you could very easily flip what you said upside down and say “16 out of the 31 UFC heavyweights are just as tall or taller than Jones. The height advantage he enjoys over more than 80% of all Light-Heavyweights would be entirely negated or reversed by just over half of his potential opponents. In fact the last Heavyweight Champion as tall or taller than Jones is the affable reigning Heavyweight Champion Junior dos Santos.”
Also, even if Jones himself stated that 240 lbs. would be an ideal weight for him, his most recent training weight is 219 according to a twitpic he sent out before the Machida fight. Do you think he keeps his speed when he puts on 20 lbs. of muscle, if he puts on 20 lbs. of muscle? Even Overeem was only able to do that gradually.
Probably a good time to stress that this is (largely) only looking at physical measurements, but it clearly shows some very interesting numbers, namely the fact that “Bones” measures up quite well against every single heavyweight in the UFC.
Except Stefan Struve, but as you pointed out with Struve, physical measurements only count for so much. This goes both ways.
What do you think, Maniacs? Should Jones move up to heavyweight? And if he does, who could stop him?
Short answer: most of the Top 10.
Jones, for all his gifts, does not have real knockout power standing. This is going to be a problem when almost any potential opponent will, instead of just about half. Still, he’s done just fine getting people to the ground first before ravaging them. However, as we say from Rampage Jackson, when he meets someone with a strength advantage, he has a much harder time getting them down. That sort of strength is commonplace in the HW division. I don’t see him easily taking down people like JDS, Cain, or Carwin (or Lesnar if he was still around). What’s more, Jones takes people down from the clinch. Being in Overeem’s clinch is an incredibly dangerous place to be if Overeem doesn’t just ragdoll Jones himself. Even Werdum has shown a very brutal clinch game as of late. Even if he gets Werdum down, is Werdum’s clinch really where he wants to be? Even Overeem wanted nothing to do with it.
Honestly at HW, even if you gave him 6 months to prepare, I see Jones decisioning Bigfoot, decisioning Nelson, probably decisioning Big Nog (or maybe Jones gets submitted), probably submitted or decisioned by Barnett, Cormier is a bit of a toss-up (but really I don’t see him outwrestling an Olympian and Cormier was able to knock out a guy with a battering ram for a jaw standing), Carwin is a bit of a toss up (only due to Carwin’s cardio, otherwise Carwin overwhelms him) and I see him almost certainly losing to Overeem, JDS, Velasquez, Werdum, or Mir. I would still pick Jones over almost anyone else, but weight divisions exist for a reason. If he wants to move up to HW, I think he needs to put on muscle and gradually fill out his frame, while focusing on the one part of his game that isn’t amazing, which is his boxing (amazing how someone with such deadly elbows can have such average fists). With some muscle and strength, he has the physical tools to be a HW World Champion some day but he still has a ways to go, more than can be accomplished in 6 months or a year. Weight divisions exist for a reason, basically.
Okay after thinking about it
Maybe Jones could beat Mir. I’m a bit on the fence on that one. Mir may have great BJJ and good striking but I could see Jones taking Mir down, possibly getting to full mount, and then ending it with elbows, but Mir probably still takes that one.
Did I say otherwise?
Please tell me how that negates anything I said.
LOL
i find it funny that some of you guys think he could take on JDS and Cain. i dont even think he could get pass henderson
Have you ever seen jbj struggle or in trouble?
by steady2wheels on Feb 19, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
LOL!
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
seriously. Bones was hitting nothing but air.
And Machida was closing the distance and getting some good shots in in spite of Bones’ obscene reach advantage. He really exposed how sloppy Bones’ striking is.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I would love it if he went to HW
He would more than likely get thrown to thw wolves right away and get smashed, and make me have a good day. Jones is only good cuz he is the larger man at LHW.FUCK Jon Jones. I hate that we share the same last name!
I like bacon...Steelers fo life!!!!
#1 Quinton Rampage the Dragon Slayer Jackson fan for LIFE..FTW!!! Nick Diaz would mop the floor with GSP and the fight with Sheilds confirms it!!!
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his" Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.I hate Jon Jones..No mas la raza!!! JDS Bitches
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