Prime Sakuraba would submit GSP
by wolfman13 on Feb 18, 2012 1:41 AM EST
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This make look like trolling and to many it will be no matter what I say.
Kazushi Sakuraba is the legend that any fighter should aspire to become, despite him never winning a major title.
He has wins over 4 Gracie's, Royce, Ryan, Renzo, and Royler. Including the 90 minute battle with Royce in PRIDE.
He has wins over Vitor Belfort, Quentin Jackson, Carlos Newton, Guy Mezger, Kevin Randleman, Masakatsu Funaki, Ken Shamrock and has been in wars with everyone from heavyweights Mirko Filipovic, Kimo Leopoldo, Igor Vovchanchyn. He fought Wanderlei Silva 3 times, Ricardo Arona, Yoshihiro Akiyama, Little Nogueira.
He was willing to fight anyone, anywhere and he was easily among the most skilled catch wrestlers of all time.
He doesn't have the greatest record, but considering he fought well above his natural weight most of his career I won't knock him.
26-16-1 (2 No Contests) with 19 submission wins. He was the UFC Japan Tournament winner and was a 2000 PRIDE Openweight Grand Prix semifinalist.
He's only 5-6 in his last 11 fights and is on a 4 fight losing streak, but seeing as he's lost to Ralek Gracie (3-0) by decision, Jason Miller (24-8 1 No Contest), Current DREAM Welterweight Champion Marius Zaromskis (16-6 1 No Contest), and Yan Cabral (10-0) he's not fighting cans like a lot of fighters fighting past their primes.
If there was ever a man to enter the hypothetical MMA Hall of Fame; Sakuraba would be the first man inducted or at the very least in the first class.
Now I haven't stated why I think Sakuraba would submit George St. Pierre have I. Sakuraba who would commonly fight around 183lbs-192lbs, usually in PRIDE Middleweight matches where the weight limit was 203lbs. If he was in his prime he would probably be fighting at welterweight or middleweight and would cause a lot of problems.
He was never a the most technical striker, but it became passable for a time. He actually had some pretty decent leg kicks and a decent left hand. GSP would no doubt hold the edge there, but when the fight hit the mat I would give the edge to Sakuraba.
His excellent amateur wrestling combined with his catch-wrestling made him a nasty match up for anyone on the ground, and it's been said(by many) that he once had one of the best single leg take downs in MMA. And if he got your arm or your leg he was going for the submission, and he very often got one.
I think that if Sakuraba ever fought him, a prime Sakuraba in his early 30's would beat GSP in a long, technical grappling match. Late, like 18-23 minutes into the fight (assuming it's a five round fight)
You may not agree with me at all, and I'm sure many of you will. So feel free to state your opinions on how full of shit I am. :)
There's my rant, enjoy your weekends.
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I think that if Sakuraba ever fought him, a prime Sakuraba in his early 30's would beat GSP in a long, technical grappling match. Late, like 18-23 minutes into the fight (assuming it's a five round fight)
Might wanna fix that. I think Saku could but sadly no way to give the guy his youth back.
If you dont like drugs then dont do them.....give them to me!
nevermind its my drunkness making me see shit that aint there LOL
If you dont like drugs then dont do them.....give them to me!
by Khaos_Warrior on Feb 18, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
speaking of long techinical grappling matches
for my money, Sakuraba vs Carlos Newton remains the most exciting grappling match in MMA history.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
+1, it's gotta be in anybody's top 3 / top 5 i'd bet
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
this ^
which is part of why I think he could give Saku a good run for the money
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I'm really tired.
I meant to say Saku would give GSP a run for his money. I was at a live even last night and didn’t get home until around 3am and got up at 830 so I’m drinking coffee and trying to wake up. 
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
yeah, King Mo
met him last night, actually a nice guy. He had surgery on his knee so he was on crutches and got a staff infection. He was supposed to be the events guest Ref but couldn’t walk so he posed for pictures and gave autographs.
I talked to him for a bit at the end of the event, pretty chill dude. Encouraged me to keep fighting even though I’m going to the academy. He’s really adamant about the jab.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
my beef with him
1) All that racist shit calling Rampage an “Uncle Tom”….I hate that shit! I get sick of brothers trying to tell each other how to “be black” and dissing anyone who hangs out with white people or “talks white” or whatever. We each have the right to define our “blackness” for ourselves and it pisses me off when people call Rampage an Uncle Tom or call Bones an Oreo or a poser. I have no patience for people like Rashad and King Shmo who put other people down because of their “blackness” or alleged lack thereof.
2) He thinks he’s better than he is, talks like he’s the shit when he’s not even faced UFC-caliber competition yet.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
fair enough
I don’t pay attention to that, mostly because I never give a shit about race. I grew up in a predominately white area in north Michigan, but when I joined the Marine Corps I made a lot of friends and they varied. I honestly just don’t pay attention.
I don’t get it, but I think I get what you’re trying to say. If that makes any sense.
Last night he was humble, patient with a bunch of drunk red necks, and was polite when I talked to him for about 5 minutes.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
that's the weird part
guys like Mo and Rashad can have white friends (Jardine), but then they hate other black people for silly reasons like hanging out with whites. Don’t feel bad if you don’t understand it cause it’s never made any sense to me, either, Bro!
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
baha
Some of my best buddies are black, some are Asian, some are Hispanic, I honestly don’t think about it…. ever
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
yeah, I don't think about it either
I’ve been all over the world (like Rampage)and have friends of every language and color in the spectrum. I only notice race issues when ignorant haters like Mo and Rashad start name-calling.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I've in Japan
I have been to Korea, Australia, the Philippines, Thailand,
lived in California, lived in South Carolina. People are pretty much the same everywhere.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
in some ways
there are some things that are universal and I’m often surprised by the similarities between people of radically different cultures. But then I’m also often surprised at just how radically different cultures can be and how many unspoken and unreflected rules we live by without even knowing it and how drastically different the unconscious social expectations can be in a given situation from one culture to another, how the same action can be taken to have such completely different intentions depending on who’s interpreting it.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
don't step on the money in Thailand
slurp when you eat noodles in Japan(weird I thought)
don’t use you left hand for anything in the middle east
cultural expectations may be different, but personalities are always the same.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
isn't it funny how you keep meeting the same people everywhere
Like whether you’re in China or India or America, you’re still gonna run into stock types like the domineering wife, the talkative bore, the short grouchy boss, the pathetic drunk, the brown-noser, the mooch, the smiling weasel scammer, the arrogant jock….
“Asshole” definitely knows no cultural bounds.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
definitely, one of my fave fights ever!
Anybody else think Ben Henderson is Carlos Newton 2.0? Love both those guys! But Saku is my boy!
"I'm tall, dark, and handsome...and you third world ugly!"
I don't know about that
I think Henderson is awesome… weird legs though….
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
SAKURABA!~
great choice for a fanpost!~ rec’d.. always good to put the spotlight on Kazushi every now and then.. it’s good for the new fans.
imo- a prime sakuraba would most definitely beat GSP.. he’s probably take most of the 25 min, but he would get the job done..
Everyone needs to recognize how fucking great sakuraba was.. a true mma legend.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
yup
I hope he retires honestly, it’s just sad sometimes watching him try to compete with fighters still in their prime.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
When did he make 170? Was it the 80's?
So you might as well just made a fanpost saying Fedor would beat GSP.
Also Saku wouldn’t be able to get that fight to the ground (assuming they were the same size). Are you suggesting Saku would win by a flying submission?
Overeem is sexy and he knows it.
Sakuraba weighed about 183lbs without cutting weight
nowadays he actually fights around 167lbs but he’s lost a ton of muscle. He could have cut 15 lbs to fight at today’s welterweight class.
Sakuraba is 42, he’s not that old to have been a fighter in the 1980’s…..
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Anybody hoping to beat GSP has to be able to beat him grappling
Or at least contend with his grappling. Saku wasn’t that good.
I saw about half of that 90 minute fight with Gracie too. Boring…
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
What do you mean without wrestling?
He placed forth in Japans Collegiate wrestling championships(not the NCAA but still) and he’s a catch-as-catch-can wrestler and freestyle wrestler, what do you mean no wrestling?
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I didn't say he doesn't have any wrestling
But c’mon forth place in the Japanese Collegiate Wrestling Association is almost as good as 8th place in Elementary school wrestling here in NA.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
haha
Just trolling. I knew you could handle it.
But seriously, I don’t see Saku beating GSP (or anyone for that matter at 170). At least pre-surgeries. GSP is untouchable in his prime.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
we don't know how much the surgery will affect him anyhow
could be pretty much the same
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
sakuraba has some bad ass wrastling, jay..
no doubt he could compete with GSP in a grappling match..
mma fight? i could see saku getting the best of george going into later rounds.. Sakurabas jj mixed with his freestyle wrestling would give george alot of problems… George could definitely pull it off too, but my guess(the ways gsp could win) would be on points or tko..
just thinking about that fight happening or ‘what if’ Sakuraba was 20 years younger make me giddy..
SAKURABAAAA
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
Oh, you're talking about my sig.
Had to mix it up to counter yours
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
if i can just pipe in
skills aside the athletical ,fitness,strength and power advantages todays fighters have over fighters of yesteryear due to improved training programmes,dieting,supplements etc means even the top 5/6 wws,mws would be competitve with saku and thats not doing his skills a diservice.
"ever heard of a tune up? tee hee hee hee
"ah hee hee hee ever heard of a ritual killing? tee hee hee hee"
"i dont get it"
"you gnaw on her face in public like that again and you'll be one tee hee hee hee"
All those old fights are like watching paint dry
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
not at all
I rewatch the first PRIDE and UFC every so often.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
The first Pride?
Wasn’t the first Pride a pro wrestling gig? The company did start out that way.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
no, the first PRIDE event was in 1997
Renzo Gracie fought Akira Shojii, Gary Goodridge fought Oleg Takarov, Rickson Gracie fought Nobuhiko Takada, Kimo fought Dan Severn
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
You might want to recheck your facts
PRIDE began as a pro wrestling gig to showcase that Japanese guy that used to own it.
Now you know. Oh and it was before 1997.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
I was referring to the first MMA event. Which was on Oct. 11th 1997.
I don’t give a shit about the pro wrestling days. I did check my facts Jay.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
You don't care about the pro wrestling?
Who do you think was deciding who would win their “fights”? A pro wrestler.
That’s why PRIDE means shit and their stats should be struck from fighters records.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
It was 1997 though
You were right about that. I thought it was before the UFC started, maybe I was wrong.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
I don't subscribe to the belief that PRIDE was fixed
I don’t agree at all with that.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Even after all those fighters, staff and owners of PRIDE said their fights were “works”, you still don’t believe them?
Did you think that 40 year old wrestler that owned the company was really fighting the 20 year old fighters he matched up with?
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
who are you talking about? Inoki?
when did he ever fight in PRIDE? He just stood ringside and occasionally slapped someone in the face to congratulate them.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
The guy that started Pride
I don’t remember his name. He’s the guy that owned Shooto or ended up owning Dream…
Drawing a blank. He fought to a horrible record too. Only fought in Pride 4 or 5 times…
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Takada
and he didn’t own pride and he has like a 2-6-2 record
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I'll let you know when I get home
I’m reading about it at the moment anyway. Just can’t remember what I just read this week.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
if pride was fixed, i dont know how the hell they got high profile fighters like Nog and Fedor get slammed directly on their heads in matches..
lol..
“hey fedor”, ""let kevin randleman slam you on your head/neck really hard, but still win the fight""
“hey big nog” – "we want you to get smashed on by a guy that outweighs you by almost triple your weight, then we want him to piledrive you into the mat.. "just make sure you’re conscious afterwards..
i could go on forever and i haven’t even touched on some of the big upsets in pride… like a prime cro cop would give up his chance to fight fedor, by letting randleman knock him the fuck out?? you think prideFC purposely had mirko knocked out cold, preventing him from going on to fight fedor(a fight EVERYone and their uncle wanted to see???
just because there wasn’t a commish, does NOT mean pride was fixed..
there are countless ufc fights one could view in the same light..
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
oh yeah, and....
saku
Saku
SAKURABAAAAA
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
I didn't say it was fixed
And I certainly didn’t say that every single fight was fixed. In fact, if you read what was said, you’d see that I said the complete opposite of that twice.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Inoki fought Mohammed Ali
but he was way too old to fight in PRIDE. I do think he was a kind of figurehead for the organization though, as well as for some Pro-Wrestling orgs and some post-Pride orgs. He was sorta the Hulk Hogan of Japan.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
no way it was fixed.
the judges & refs might have been biased, but the outcomes were not scripted. If they were, no way in hell Japan’s biggest hero Tokada would have lost twice to Rickson in embarassing fashion.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
You don't think the owner would want to put someone over to make money?
If it wasn’t fixed you’re going to have to take it up with all the fighters that said it was. They think they know more than you two guys.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
you're taking some things that were said out of context to try and prove you point
Rampage has said they offered him more money to lose in a certain way but he refused. That can look like fight fixing and I think it’s fishy as fuck. And I honestly think there were a couple fixes(Takada and Coleman?) but it was a legit competition 97% of the time.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
If it's fishy as fuck once
The entire thing is fishy. How about the 30 guys that said they were asked nicely to “keep the fight standing”? Or “try not to work his legs too much in case he has to fight again tonight”?
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
that's dirty, but not the same as determining the outcome
or scripting the fights.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
It pretty much is scripting the outcome when he tells a wrestler to do that
with a kickboxing legend.
But that’s just my opinion.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
I've heard Rampage complain
about the judging and matchmaking and payscale being unfair, but I"ve never heard him say the fights were fixed. How can you fake the shit we saw in PRIDE? Sure you can stack the odds with dirty judges/refs, but we all saw Wandy’s knees up close, we saw the eyes roll back in the head and the toes curl up….that shit was as real as it gets.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I've watched people become paralyzed while wrestling
Does that mean all wrestling is real?
I didn’t say that every fight was worked. But the entire organization from start to finish was crooked. I don’t care to choose which fights were on the up-and-up, I just discount the entire debacle.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Dana White makes money everytime someone says the word PRIDE
Of course he doesn’t agree with me.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
but at least you've got Chael on your side
and we all know what a bastion of honesty and historical accuracy he is. He would never exaggerate or misrepresent anything.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I'll take Chael over Dana in a truth telling contest
Any day.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Hmmm....tough call!
I’ll take Chael when it comes to predicting the future. I’ll take Dana on the past. Dana is forever promising title shots and “guaranteeing 100%” shit that we all know won’t happen, whereas Chael accurately forsees ass whoopings that nobody else in the world could imagine, but then claims that he’s undefeated in MMA and saw the Nogs feeding a bus.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Are you just really trusting of organized crime syndicates
Or naiive in general? haha
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Those guys didn't fight each other
They “entertained fans with realistic fighting”.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
Pride 1 was dull as ditchwater
Regardless of the big names involved. I downloaded that video last year I think and deleted it later. I have no interest in watching MMA of such a low calibre of skill. I’d rather watch UFC Fight Night 15 or something.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
Not that I only hate on Pride for that
Most of the early UFC fights are unwatchable and unbearable, especially the early “superfights” consisting of two guys holding on to each other for 30 minutes.
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
Shamrock vs Royce Superfight
as I recall, the fight was so long and there was so little motion, the commentators were reduced to giving us the play-by-play development of their facial stubble growth.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Saku 4ever!
My all-time fantasy matchup would have been to see Saku fight FRANK Shamrock around 1999/2000. At the time, they were the most intellegent, creative, and complete MMArtists. Frank was the prototype for GSP and Saku was perhaps the most innovative and unpredictable fighter of all time. Bones is nowhere near as imaginative as Saku was. "Oh, you got spinning back elbow? No probrem, I gots flying-somersault-face-sit-double-gorilla-fist-rolling-kneebar!
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
I like your style young lady, I never considered that match up but wow that would be a dream match up indeed
by steady2wheels on Feb 18, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
me too!
I asked Frank about that one time, and he told me he thinks of Saku as “the one that got away”, the one great challenge of his time that he never got a chance to fight, but wished he had.
"I'm tall, dark, and handsome...and you third world ugly!"
you met Frank?
Cool. It’s too bad he’s such a sucky commentator and that the UFC erased him from the history books, before he “retired” and took several years off, he was one of the greatest of all time, the first complete MMArtist in the UFC. IMO the UFC Hall of Fame will never be respectable, will never be more than a “Dana’s favorites Club” until Frank takes his rightful place therein.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
Commenting before reading
Saku never beats GSP. Not in his prime, not on GSP’s deathbed. I am a HUGE Saku fan, but no, just no.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
Now I read it
I still don’t agree with you, lol
Saku never gets GSP down. Loses 99 out of 100 after being jabbed to death for 5 rounds ala Kos (who has MUCH better TD’s than Saku ever had)
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
hmmmm, I understand what you mean and why. seems most people think that.... and it's logical and understandable.
I think Sakuraba would do something crazy and get the fight to the ground. He stood and survived against better strikers, grappled with better BJJ fighters, he never real faced great wrestlers but he himself was a fantastic freestyle amateur and top level catch wrestler. GSP would have two advantages: Striking and strength, but those are obstacles he was able to circumvent many times in his career.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I'm not even a "PRIDE never die" type of fan
Sakuraba in my opinion is one of the best grapplers to ever compete in the sport. Period and in his prime he could have submitted GSP. It’s just an opinion, Jay. How’s is your weekend thus far?
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I had Thursday and Friday off
Working all weekend and the holiday on Monday.. So my weekend is over..
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
It's not bad
I had a weekend. Now I work for time and a half today (on mania) and double time tomorrow (more mania) then double and a half on Monday (mania).
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
sounds like you work for public works or OPG/Toronto Hydro
"I'm gonna be the champion till the day I decide not to be. And that isn't any time soon." - Brock Lesnar at UFC 106
by hairybumcrack on Feb 18, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I hate Pride but I do like Sakuraba
He’s just not as good as you give him credit for.
He was creative though.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
not fair!
you must LOVE sakuraba, jay!
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
I’m not too educated about Sakuraba besides the obvious things. Do you consider his wrestling good enough to take down GSP? You gotta be really high level to do this.
Consider before GSP went all cautious, Sean Sherk one of the best wrestlers of our time, could not take GSP down.
Jon Fitch couldn’t take GSP down, or at least not effectively.
Even Matt Hughes couldn’t take him down after their first fight.
Jake Shields had no chance to take GSP down.
That is quite the list of notables here, and considering that Koscheck is probably the only one who can even be competitive with the monster, and that’s likely due to athleticism, I just don’t see how Saku is going to effectively get this to the ground.
And considering how cautious GSP was with Jake Shields, of course GSP is going to look to keep this standing. GSP’s scrambling ability is solid as well as his submission defense ever improving. GSP is no true BJJ guy, he definitely can be subbed.
But overall, I think the fight, with my limited knowledge of Saku , goes to GSP 9 out of 10. At least.
GSP vs Shields should be similar here. GSP being super cautious of going to the ground, and being uber protective of that, and outpointing him to a victory.
That’s how I feel now, although I do need to watch more Saku fights.
The guys you mentioned are fairly predictable when compared with Saku
I think GSP would be able to keep his head straight but what exactly did he have to look for when defending against Jake? Not a lot at all, Jake wanted to have a boxing match.
If GSP ever fought Saku in his prime he would have to keep his wits about him more than looking for the normal grappling attacks or clinches like he had to with Kos, Fitch etc.
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
actually, GSP's caution would work against him.
The most effective style against Saku (much like GSP) was the berserker blitzkrieg. Saku would have been in more danger from fighters like Thiago or Chris Leben than from higher level fighters like Shields, Sonnen, or Fitch.
"I'm tall, dark, and handsome...and you third world ugly!"
I think you're right.
Gameplanning never seemed to do much good against Saku, the master adaptor. Unless you outweighed him by 40 lbs, your best chance of beating him was to just roll the dice and run in guns blazing.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
it is blind fandom that gives you this impression
In reality, the fighters of today are so much more well-rounded that they are far superior to their “heyday” counterparts. The learning curve is flattened and the athleticism is so much greater that there are very few champions of old that would be more than gatekeepers in today’s MMA. Sad but true.
I love Saku. I still think he is the 3rd best 185’r to ever fight. But he gets mauled by GSP almost everytime. That 1 time in a 100 I gave him above would be for the one time he actually landed a flying whatever to get GSP down.
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Fair enough, I understand what you man
but his technical superiority can’t be denied over a vast majority of even today’s grapplers.
Too bad we’ll never see either way, eh?
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I grew up wanting to see the 1976 Pittsburgh Steelers play the 1990 Dallas Cowboys
until I realized that the smallest member of the Cowboy’s O-line had 50 pounds on any of the Pgh D-linemen, that Dary Johnston was 25 pounds heavier at FB than any of the Pgh LB’s and Emmitt Smith timed faster in the 40 than all but three of those Steelers, two of which played Offense.
It would have been a squash match. Just like this one.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
no, there's a vast difference between football
and MMA, Sakuraba in his prime more often than not found a way to win the fight, it would be competitive, way more competitive than what GSP has faced against lately, Dan Hardy?
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Prime Saku would lose to
Kos
Fitch
Shields
Alves
4 of GSP’s last 5 opponents.
He really wasn’t nearly as good as you are making out. Prime Saku would barely be top 10 in today’s UFC’s MW division. Barely. He gets creamed by AS, Sonnen, Munoz, Okami, Bisping, Stann, Weidman, Maia and Belfort. Creamed. Not just beaten. He doesn’t beat one of them, and they are the top fighters in one of the worst divisions in MMA today.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
He wouldn't lose to Alves
and Sakuraba already beat Belfort.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Fitch is a maybe, but I think Saku's striking would cause Fitch problems and Fitch wouldn't
be able to out grapple him.
Shields striking isn’t as good as Saku’s was.
Kos would be a tough fight for him
I think Saku would beat Stann, Okami and maybe Maia. Maia isn’t much more than a BJJ fighter himself
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Maia was a world champ
(I completely forgot he beat Vitor)
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
I mean to say Sakuraba hung with some of the best BJJ fighters in the world
19 submission wins, I don’t think he’d lose to Maia that way
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
yup, they didn't call him "The Gracie Hunter" for nothing.
His only submission loss before he got old was in his MMA debut against a 240 lbs monster. If the entire Gracie family couldn’t tap him out, I don’t think anyone could have when he was in his prime.
"I'm tall, dark, and handsome...and you third world ugly!"
Miller submitted him at 40 years old :( and then he was submitted by an undefeated BJJ Black belt
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
and you completely missed the analogy...
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
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banging my head off a wall over getting caught in these debates
they never get resolved and people are not willing to understand history.
Have a great weekend wolfman. I am cracking a beer in 3 hours. Slainte.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
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To be fair Saku started his career a long long time ago even before who I personally consider the "old guard" to be
at least currently competing ones. I like the point about his technical grappling and creativity but GSP isn’t just one of the more athletically developed fighters, he’s one of the elite. That’s not all it takes to win but I think it’s enough to stay on the feet. I’d give him a chance, if we’re talking percentage of him winning I wouldn’t give him over 10% of a shot.
Regardless we’ll never see it and appreciate the well presented interesting topic. Nice one Wolf and Saku was a beast, somebody who defines a fighter.
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
maybe so.
it is blind fandom that gives you this impression
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
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i was implying the blind GSP fans that think he would easily beat a prime sakuraba..
i don’t understand how people couldn’t think it would be a competitve fight..
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
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not more well rounded
today’s fighters aren’t more well-rounded than in Saku’s day, they’re just more athletic, bigger, and more aware oftheir bodies. Both generations had their share of specialists & generalists. You can’t get any more well rounded than Frank Shamrock, Saku, Belfort, Fedor, Bas,….those guys could knock you out, take you down, or submit you from any of a hundred different positions. They were plenty rounded, they just didn’t come from as broad or as deep a pool of talent and competition as today’s guys. Also they didn’t know as much about nutrition & conditioning, and they weren’t cutting 20-30lbs.
"I'm tall, dark, and handsome...and you third world ugly!"
if only we could pluck the fighters from their prime
and place them in the octagon to fight each other…i kept waiting for the old cro cop to show up for example..but no..we must face reality
Sarah,
you know we all love you, but just like Nick Diaz, the rules apply to you as well. Here is your sig.
"I need to start letting my husband make my picks for me"
^ yep
I still wonder what would have happened if CroCop hadn’t been head kicked by Gonzaga….
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
A prime Cro cop would be one of the few men that I would mind seeing in their prime fight cans.
Because when he wins his opponents usually look the same anyways.
Now, count up your crimes!
by Cyclonejoker on Feb 18, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Did I strike a nerve or something?
Now, count up your crimes!
by Cyclonejoker on Feb 18, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know what you mean
just a strange way to put it…
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Sorry, I was just saying when Cro Cop does his head kick, his opponents all fall the same (cans or top level)
So his level of opponents doesn’t matter much to me.
Now, count up your crimes!
by Cyclonejoker on Feb 18, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Sarah,
i kept waiting for the old cro cop to show up for example..
you dont have to wait anymore.. haven’t you seen my boy Stipe miocic??
he’s Cro Cop with wrestling skills.. BAD ASS
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
something mirko should have adapted to his mma game, along with the wrestling...
instead of thowing nothing but kicks.. lol
im loving me some miocic.. i bet he’s making cro cop proud.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
I think he had the opportunity to do well in the UFC before the Cains, Brocks, Overeems, JDSs of the division came along
Back when Randy and Nog would have been the top guys I think he’d have a good a shot as them to be champ even, depending on whether he KO’d Gonzaga impressively and didn’t fight like the CroCop we’ve seen over the past several years.
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
His takedown defense was awesome
and he can/could hang with a lot of their striking. It’s just the fact of life that athletes diminish and age.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
I think he became timid, sometimes there's no reason why he didn't throw his headkick more.
He did more often against JDS than most while fighting for the UFC, so maybe some of it was to avoid being taken down but at the end of the day he just didn’t throw as much … hands or feet. It’s a simplistic thing to say but he just didn’t pull the trigger.
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
....good point... his fight against Nelson he only had one arm...
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
he exploded against Nelson though and for one second i thought
hes back!
"ever heard of a tune up? tee hee hee hee
"ah hee hee hee ever heard of a ritual killing? tee hee hee hee"
"i dont get it"
"you gnaw on her face in public like that again and you'll be one tee hee hee hee"
I wanted it too
With both arms I think he could have used his jab and beat nelson….
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
that was one nasty muscle injury
can’t believe he fought with such a fucked up arm..but he did explain why..but still..damn
Sarah,
you know we all love you, but just like Nick Diaz, the rules apply to you as well. Here is your sig.
"I need to start letting my husband make my picks for me"
yeah, he didn't want to pull out. He was in awesome shape for that fight too
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
The Nelson fight is the only one
The Barry fight was strange because it wasn’t so much a comeback as it was … Barry letting his foot off the pedal. Harsh maybe.
This is very late because this fight is tonight but I think I found a decent bet, gamblers unite!;
Klitschko to defeat Chisora by KO + Rampage to defeat Bader = -125.
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
I expect Klitschko to smash him, slapping him in the face was ridiculous
Rampage will probably beat Bader
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Klit decisioned him ;( Still think it was a good way to get odds on him though
5-3, undefeated and undisputed, beat me ... if you can.
I clearly didnt learn my lesson the first time, The Pride has smashed me AGAIN. My excess estrogen has destroyed my life, I make Chaz Bono look like a real man"
yeah I saw that,
it was pretty one sided though from what I read, I was at a live show, met king mo, so I didn’t get to watch it yet.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Nope Sakuraba would get the shit beat out of him in his prime against GSP,
Outstruck and dominated easily, St. Pierre would sprawl this man continously
Lance Storm Version 2.0
Hmmm.
You never stated which GSP. If you said the GSP from like 6 years ago, maybe. If you said prime GSP or even one from 3 years ago – i would say GTFO troll.
Jon Bones Jones is the Greatest MMA fighter to ever grace the sport.
Big Nog for Life
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Feb 18, 2012 2:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm not a troll :)
I just think he would have a good chance of submitting GSP.
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
Eh I don't see it happening at all.
But as long as Sakuraba doesn’t get his ear ripped off I’d watch it.
Now, count up your crimes!
by Cyclonejoker on Feb 18, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Saku was awesome and I understand you needed to throw GSP in there to catch attention.
Now that you have it, GSP wouldn’t let Saku take him down and even if he did, he would get right back up.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. - Herm Albright
GSP > Everybody past or present
Even tho I initially acted like a small child, I have been forced to come to my senses. enzo-enormous is better at calling fights than I am, by far. I am a little immature but am working on it. Also, I love dudes and cant wait to get a reach around from the 209
maybe more boring than everybody past and present
i hope he brings the old george back to fight carlos . Lets see a Fucking war! No more safe george lets let it all out that i would take my hat off to . im crossing my fingers this could be one of the great ones. We just need to send Greg Jackson to the moon for a few weeks . Keep that fucker away !
GSP won't ever go back to the old GSP
Greg Jackson broke that shit.
Sakuraba would get jabbed to death by GSP if they were to fight in a prime vs. prime fantasy match. Beating one dimensional Gracie's is cool and all, but without wrestling you ain't shit.
compared to him (gsp)
WE are fucking broke..lol monetarily speaking… but yes..to the original point..he has now become a safe fighter…which, who can blame him..he is the champ and he makes the good money…i just hope that a fight like gsp and diaz happens and georges fights with some fire under his ass.
Sarah,
you know we all love you, but just like Nick Diaz, the rules apply to you as well. Here is your sig.
"I need to start letting my husband make my picks for me"
Stupid comparison,
its like saying Jack Nichlaus could beat Tiger. Its irrelivant, two differant time zones.
Not really
Sakuraba was a tiny middleweight, he never weighed 205lbs and didn’t have to cut weight to fight at 185lbs. His size is comparable but I understand why you feel that way.
But as far different eras, one was in his prime a decade ago, today the other is. And why bring up golf?
Kazushi Sakuraba would submit GSP in his prime.
umm, I don't follow golf but...
wouldn’t playing the same course in say 40 strokes in 1970 be directly comparable to playing the same course in more or fewer strokes in 2010? I mean….a hole is a hole and a swing is a swing….since it’s not a head-to-head sport, why wouldn’t it be comparable? It’s not like you have to imagine how Tiger’s defense would stack up to Nichlaus’s speed…. Your analogy makes no sense.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
if they were using the same exact clubs, balls ect.
and the weather conditions were the same, and the level of competition, and pin placement.. There are just to many variables.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
what does the level of competition have to do with it in golf? You either hit it in the hole or not…it’s not like the other guy is trying to block your shot.
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
it has to do with pressure
if Jack played a round and there were 3 golfers within 1 stroke of him, he may change his approach a bit, same would go for Tiger if he was ahead by 5 strokes – he may slack off a bit with his intensity.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
think of it as
angry with BJ Penn GSP vs just coasting along against Hardy GSP, same fighter, two different intensity levels, two different performances
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
BJ & Hardy were fighting back, golf balls don't
but I see what you’re saying about the psychological aspect. I wonder though, do the best golfers hit their best scores in tourney’s or when they’re practicing?
"Who's da MASTA?!!!"
probably depends on the golfer
some guys live for the competition aspect, and it drives them to do better, some guys shrink when put on the big stage (Greg Norman)
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Lee UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
practice
A golf course that has been set up for Tournament play is a different animal. Especially at the Majors and in particular at the US Open. Let’s pretend you shoot 100 at a particular golf course normally. If they set that course up for the US Open you would shoot more than a 120 easily.
Fighters fight. Snitches Snitch.
A few reasons why it isn’t apples and apples:
1. The clubs are much different. They have more of a spring like effect now, have better shafts due to the materials being used to build them.
2. The balls are much, much different. So much so that they had to change golf courses to prevent the game from being too easy. Coupled with the new clubs players can hit the ball further and put more spin on it.
3. Golf courses are much different now. They are longer for one, but the equipment and irrigation methods used have changed drastically. Greens are a totally different animal than back in Jack’s day.
Fighters fight. Snitches Snitch.
so what your saying is
Jack is a better golfer.
I agree
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Yamamoto UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
"I'll be able to slap it, but I'm not gonna have time to flip it and rub it down."
Kenny Powers
Jack is most definitely a better golfer. But, Tiger changed the game. No denying that.
Fighters fight. Snitches Snitch.
to a point, he changed the targeted demographic for sure, but the game itself is still boring as fuck to watch.
UFC 144 picks: Zhang 1st Rnd SUB, Mitsuoka 2nd Rnd SUB, Yamamoto UD, Bader UD, Cantwell UD, Mizugaki UD, Kongo UD, Hioki UD, Pettis 2nd Rnd SUB, Okami UD, Shields UD, Edgar UD(sig bet with Scottidog)
Sig bet record 2-6*
"I'll be able to slap it, but I'm not gonna have time to flip it and rub it down."
Kenny Powers
Nice post Taylor Laughtner.....
but GSP smashes Sakuraba 500times out of 10
Don't make me swing on you bro
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