UFC Quick Quote: 'Big' John McCarthy responds to accusation that he's an overpriced 'celebrity referee'
by Jesse Holland on Apr 19, 2011 10:53 AM EDT
in UFC News
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"As far as 'Celebrity Referees,' that is a line used by Dale (Kliparchuk) and Brian (Beauchamp) in their letter and now they have talked Mark Pavelich into using the same line. I have worked one MFC show and was not paid by Pavelich for working the show. I was paid by the Enoch Nation which owns River Cree. If I have a promoter contact me about working their show it is my right to ask for whatever fee I feel is fair. Most of the time that promoter is using my name to help promote their show and I should be compensated for that because it goes beyond the normal scope of the job. Now they are using you to help possibly sell tickets. If a commission contacts me and asks me to work a show for them I accept whatever fee the commission pays. Have I ever made $10,000 to work a show, No. I have made different amounts of money throughout my career. Last night I worked a show and made $280 for the night. This entire thing is about Brian being a person that wants to be a referee in the UFC. Someday he may attain that goal, but he is not close to being ready yet. although he believes he is. Mark Pavelich does not ever have to pay for a referee or official other than one assigned by an athletic commission at the rate that the commission pays their officials. All commissions are different, but if Mark wants to have a Herb Dean, Dan Miragilotta or John McCarthy work his event at his request, then they should be able to say how much their services are worth. If he does not like the price then he does not have to hire them, because nobody is forcing him to. Hope you appreciate the truth. I do not hide behind screen names you know who I am. I wish this could be said of everyone."
Longtime mixed martial arts (MMA) referee John McCarthy takes to The Underground to respond to a recent accusation by Maximum Fighting Championship (MFC) President Mark Pavelich that a small group of MMA officials were using the recognition of their names and "catchphrases" to charge exorbitant fees (upwards of $10,000) to promotions who were forced to use them as referees for local events. "Big" John contends that's not the case and that a promotion is only responsible for paying the standard commission fees -- unless they request a specific referee whose appearance may help promote their event based on name recognition. Anyone taking sides in this battle between promoter and ref? Let's get it on!
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meh, i don't care for the names but lately mccarthy has been doing some pretty shitty calls
ie: daley vs diaz.
mario yamazaki ftw
whatever
it’s all good, we all have our asshole moments
by Burlzilla129 on Apr 19, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
A ref should never be more prevelant
than the fighters they are reffing. And promoters doing so thusly are douchebags.
"Seriously, who taught you how to punch? Your husband?" - Pam Poovey, H.R. administrator for I.S.I.S.
How sad are we as fans that the referee influences our decision to attend events?
What is worse is that using that ref’s name, instead of the fighters, can make someone more money.
Nick Diaz, what more can you say about the guy. He is a such charming, well spoken young athelete with an incredibly bright future. He continues to get better everytime out. He will out strike any striker, out brawl any brawler and out grapple any grappler. Next on the list is to destroy a wrestler and after he beats GSP ass all you haters will just have to STFU and recognize he is the best.
I think it speaks more to the lack of quality
of the card that people are more concerned with the ref than the fighters. If Big John was reffing some shitty local event near Dallas, I would probably go to see it just for him.
I've honestly never heard anything more ridiculous than the idea that people pay to see a ref
Not only is it absurd that a ref is being promoted instead of the actual fighters but that also brings the issue of fight fixing into account. When the ref becomes a part of the show and not just there to keep the fight fair and safe then you have big problems. The only other “sport” that has people hiring refs to be a part of the show is pro wrestling, are these small-time promotions really that pathetic that they’d resort to promoting a ref and paying extra money for them to appear and are the refs really that ego-maniacal to actually think that people are there to watch them and not the fighters? Pathetic on so many levels.
Undefeated in pic/sig bets in 2011
Challenge accepted: scarnon will be 2-2 once Machida retires Captain Paycheque
Ahh, come on man
It’s not that big of a deal. Do you know how many shitty racing / monster truck commercials I’ve hear over the years with tag lines near the end of the commercial “with special appearances by….blah blah, and blah blah”
Big John is right on the money, if they are using his name and/or likeness on commercials and posters he should get an elevated cut. It becomes an “appearance” and he should receive an appearance fee.
The real issue here is that the Athletic Commissions should make it illegal to use a ref in commercials and advertising if that ref is going to be working the fights.
I get it though, small time shows use whatever ammunition they have to put butt’s in the seats.
I don't see the problem at all
John’s generally a great ref, so is Herb Dean, it’s a position that can add/detract from the experience overall. A bad ref can ruin a show, if John gets a little extra $$ in his pocket I got no problem with it.
"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger
Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"
- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors
by O damn he got caught on Apr 19, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If people are paying for the name then let the ref get paid.
Why not let them see some extra money if they’ve put in the time? It’s not like the highest paid ref is going to make anywhere the money an esteemed fighter will.
Career will be longer, tho.
Has anyone ever attended an event to see a ref? I sure as hell have not. But I can say I do get excited when I get to see Big John, Herb Dean,or Yamasaki
by XxPRIDEFIGHTERxX on Apr 19, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
I took a pic w/big John @ the SF event in SD.
He’s been around since day 1 I’ve been watching him since I was a kid. I still think him & herb dean R the best refs in te business.
Over thinking, over analyzing,
separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition, leaving opportunities behind.
Feed my will to feel this moment, urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come.
by d*locc on Apr 19, 2011 11:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They add credibility
A promotion might not be big enough to have a Brock Lesnar on their roster, so they have a list of no names on the poster. For a whole shitload less than it takes to sign Brock or JDS you can add Big John’s name to the poster as reffing the main event and it gives the impression that these people might actually be somebody.
You really gotta give it to the French.....they sure as hell aren't going to fight for it.
Referees have individual value
For example, I can’t stand Miragliotta. In my observation he’s a great ref 90% of the time, but the remaining time he makes horrible judgment. He reacts too much to crowds booing, bad timing with stoppages, etc. When I see he’s reffing a fight that I’m excited for, I get disappointed.
I wouldn’t avoid watching a match or not attending one because of him or other bad refs, but it still makes me uneasy.
This is bad.
I hope compensations don’t start to influence the refs judgments.
Or at least I hope it has not started already.
If the refs can name their price whats to stop them from swaying a fight so that the outcome has better benefits for the promotion?
That way, in future fights, the promoter will request the same ref and offer them even more incentives.
I think you all know what I am getting at.
Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.
What makes you think this isn't happening already?
Or hasn’t been going on for years? With billions of dollars changing hands all throughout the industry you can guarantee somebody somewhere is trying to influence outcomes.
I can see MFC folding upo their tents like Affliction over a dirty urine, the last thing they need is to beef with athletic comissions and refs.
You really gotta give it to the French.....they sure as hell aren't going to fight for it.
Guy Mezgar anyone?
fight fixing has been around as long as fighting.
Nick Diaz, what more can you say about the guy. He is a such charming, well spoken young athelete with an incredibly bright future. He continues to get better everytime out. He will out strike any striker, out brawl any brawler and out grapple any grappler. Next on the list is to destroy a wrestler and after he beats GSP ass all you haters will just have to STFU and recognize he is the best.
I'm not familiar with what you're referring to. Elaborate?
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Apr 19, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
from a Cage potato interview:
Mezger: I don’t really want to get into the whole thing you know it’s just that they were wanting me to be creative in some of the guys I fought. They wanted kind of a different outcome for the fight and when I refused… They started with the whole talking about it and I was like, "Guys, I know where we’re going with this. Before you guys say anything I’m not gonna do it. I know where we’re going with this conversation and that’s just not something I’m gonna do". I knew when that happened that I was gonna have to knock guys out. It was kind of a drag. I knew that any of those tough close fights were gonna be… I knew it. (Editor’s note: Mezger lost 3 split decision matches in Pride and Pride officials wanted him to fight an overtime round against Kazushi Sakuraba despite his contract saying that the fight would only be one fifteen minute round with no overtime. Mezger left the ring after being advised by his trainer Ken Shamrock to do so and the president of Pride FC later made a public apology to Mezger for the miscommunication.)
Nick Diaz, what more can you say about the guy. He is a such charming, well spoken young athelete with an incredibly bright future. He continues to get better everytime out. He will out strike any striker, out brawl any brawler and out grapple any grappler. Next on the list is to destroy a wrestler and after he beats GSP ass all you haters will just have to STFU and recognize he is the best.
I never heard that story
I was hoping it wouldn’t be bad because I really like Guy.
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Apr 19, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure it has.
If remember correctly in EliteXC when Kimbo fought Seth Petruzelli there was some shady stuff.
Well here is a quote from Kimbo’s Wiki page pertaining to the Seth fight.
Seth said this:
The promoters kinda hinted to me and they gave me the money to stand and throw with him, they didn’t want me to take him down. Let’s just put it that way. It was worth my while to try and stand up punch him.
So I’m sure shady shit happens that we the fans don’t hear about.
That was between a promoter and a fighter, but I can see some promoter doing something similar with a ref.
Especially in the smaller promos that are trying to come up.
Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.
I have the exact same worry
If Big John was trying to defend himself and the other name refs in this post then all he did was open up another can of worms. As much as I take the piss out of Dana I have to admit that times like this make me thankful that Zuffa are dominating the sport, I’d much rather watch a properly regulated product ran by an arsehole than have a bunch of dodgy little local promotions compromise the integrity of the sport by hiring refs independently and using them to promote their shows and brands. MMA will be a lot better off without the likes of MFC, if we’re going to have dodgy figures running the sport at least let them be competent ones like the Fertittas and Dana.
Undefeated in pic/sig bets in 2011
Challenge accepted: scarnon will be 2-2 once Machida retires Captain Paycheque
"It’s Mark Pavelich calling from the Maximum Fighting Championship,
I’ve just received notice that Drew Fickett or you, I don’t care which one of you fuckers did it, has signed a contract to fight in Strikeforce this fucking weekend. I’m going to get on a fucking plane soon and go where you’re at and choke you the fuck out. I’m telling you right now, I’ve had enough of your fucking shit. First of all, I’ve sent you the fucking pictures and secondly, I placed Drew Fickett in a fight fucking months ago and five weeks prior to my main event of my fucking fight card. You’re going to give me a fucking call tomorrow or I swear I’ll get on a fucking plane and go right where you’re at right now. You’re pissing me off, I’ve been nothing but professional to you motherfuckers and you’re doing this kind of bullshit, alright? Call me back, I’m fucking pissed."
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Apr 19, 2011 11:49 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, fuck...
Mark Pavelich.
That guy is, and always has been, an extreme douche.
by Sergio Hernandez on Apr 19, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If you don't take that back I’m going to get on a fucking plane and go where you’re at and choke you the fuck out.
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Apr 19, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously...
Who talks like that to anyone except CRAZY PEOPLE?!?
by Sergio Hernandez on Apr 19, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been nothing but professional to you motherfuckers
That’s quote of the year right there.
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Apr 19, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like no one bothered to read the entire piece
The Athletic Commissions, including the ones they have up in Canada, 3rd world country that it is, I know, hire the refs at a standard rate. You get whoever you get and are happy that they are capable and trustworthy that the Comm has them as part of their corps. You might get John, Dean, Yves, etc. or you might get Tan Dan, but the AC pays them and charges the promoter that as part of their cost. If you want to go outside the commission and hire your own ref, they are free to charge whatever the market will bear. You don’t like their rates? Don’t hire them. Promoters have put BJM on posters before and he is perfectly within his rights to ask for whatever he feels like. That’s what a free market is.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Apr 19, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
...
really?
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Apr 19, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
listen
I realize I didn’t use the sarcasm font, but surely you aren’t that dense.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Apr 19, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, if you are going to talk about us as a 3rd world country
At least mention the fact that we’re having free and fair elections next month, to combat this view that we’re a bunch of “crazy socialists”.
Best referee in the business.
John is by far the best referee in all of mma, the diaz/daley call was not a bad call. Daley was gassed and got rocked, he is the badass of mma and obviously he will say John stopped the fight early. Would be brillant if he could call all title and number one contender fights.
Hes been around for so long
and done such a good job that he is a celebrity now, he cant help it. I agree with him, if promotions are going to use his name to promote their events he should get more. He should be considered a senior ref and just get paid more.
Big John Deserves It When They Request Him.
I have been to a small card where the promoter brought in Big John as a “special guest” and he ref’d the main even and honestly the guy is an absolute class act and deserved every penny of his special appearance fee. Big John spent the card visiting with fans and posing for pictures with everyone who asked. He made time for every person that wanted to chat with him. I do think the fact that he spent probably 3-4 hours visiting with fans and making sure the people who paid for tickets left happy should be compensated. Big John is a ref not a fighter he doesn’t get huge sponsorship deals with clothing companies and the like. If a “celebrity appearance fee” comes his way to do small shows the man is worth every penny.
Agreed, I'm with Big John on this one
"Howard, you really think they're gonna let you put out a whole movie just about tits?"
"Sure, who doesn't like tits?"
--The Aviator
Just lost all respect for Big John
" Have I ever made $10,000 to work a show, No"
He’s either a liar or a moron
I am the WAMMA Light-Heavyweight Champion
Now with more defenses than Fedor
Doubtful
Who’s really going to pay that much for a ref? Like he said the commission pays him. If not a commission then an Indian nation (like Enoch). They more or less have a set rate whether it’s for a UFC main event or a Rinky Dink Championship. Refs don’t make some massive amount of money and, in most cases, have jobs outside of being referees.
average ref
definately overrated, everyone just thinks hes so good because someone else said so
but such is way
by Lester The Pimp on Apr 19, 2011 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
Just like the fighters
Name Value means more than pretty much anything else.
I am the WAMMA Light-Heavyweight Champion
Now with more defenses than Fedor
by Reality_Jockey on Apr 20, 2011 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm on Big John's side
Truth be told I didn’t read the article, don’t know the issues and and probably wouldn’t care about them if I did.
But here’s what I do know…
Big John’s one of the best in the business, and isn’t afraid to speak his mind (something you’d think Dana White would respect — but I digress). He’s also one of the smartest, nicest guys in the game.
So basically what I’m saying is — if Big John has a side, whatever it is, I’m on it.
War McCarthy!
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