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Damage, Inc.: One Fan's Decision To Leave the Sport of MMA

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Editor's note: This article, by Ivan Trembow, was re-published with permission. It's something to consider as we are still young in this sport, and perhaps unaware of what fate awaits today's generation of cage fighters.

A few weeks ago, I made the decision that I am no longer going to be watching MMA (or football, or boxing, or kickboxing).

It was very difficult for me to come to this decision, because MMA has not just been my favorite sport for as long as I can remember; it has also been my biggest interest and passion in life for as long as I can remember. The sport of MMA has been what I often go to bed thinking about, it has been what I've written about for years, it has given me something to look forward to during many tough times, and it has been the sport that I've defended to any of my friends or family who oppose it. I know that no longer watching MMA is going to leave a void in my life, and that no longer watching football, boxing, or kickboxing is going to be easy by comparison.

Very few days have gone by over these many years during which I haven't either read about, or written about, or watched MMA, and for good reason: The technique involved in MMA, the fact that a fighter can employ dozens of different strategies and try to go about winning in so many different ways, the fact that all of those strategies have counter-strategies (and those counters have counters), the fact that there are so many different ways to win... These are the things that have always made me feel that MMA is the most exciting sport in the world to watch.

At the same time, I know that I can't watch it anymore, and I'd like to explain what led to my decision to no longer watch the sport that I've loved so much for so many years.

Star-divide

I recently watched a segment on an episode of the HBO newsmagazine "Real Sports" that I had saved on Tivo. The segment was about a peer-reviewed scientific study that links brain injuries such as concussions to ALS (and to syndromes like ALS), which is probably the single worst way for a human being to (slowly and painfully) die.

After watching this segment, I went online and started reading. And reading. And reading. I read about concussions for hours and hours, then for the better part of a couple days. (One of the many, many articles that I found was one on Sherdog.com, written by Dr. Matt Pitt on the subject of brain injuries in MMA)

While of course everyone has known for years that concussions are "bad for you" in general, the scientific community has only begun to fully understand the wide scope of the long-term consequences of concussions in the past few years. Studies have recently been conducted on the brains of dead football players, boxers, and pro wrestlers. Many of these athletes lived long enough to finish their careers, but nowhere near a normal life expectancy, and the alarming trend in the studies of these athletes' brains is that they had brain damage that was far worse than anyone suspected or could have imagined.

Specifically, they had chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE.

Some of these athletes had drastic behaviorial changes before their deaths, some of them developed Alzheimer's-like syndromes, some of them developed ALS-like syndromes, some of them killed themselves, and some of them killed others before killing themselves (such as pro wrestler Chris Benoit, who murdered his wife Nancy and his seven-year-old son Daniel before killing himself in 2007).

While these studies have not yet looked at the brains of dead MMA fighters, in part because the sample size of dead athletes in the relatively young sport of MMA hasn't been as large yet, common sense dictates that many of the same findings that these researchers have made about football's effects on the brain later in life, and boxing's effects on the brain later in life, will also apply to MMA.

Yes, MMA is "safer than boxing," but I think I must have been kidding myself to ever think that "safer than boxing" meant "relatively safe," no matter how much the athletic commissions and MMA promoters deny or downplay the long-term brain issues associated with MMA. People in football and boxing made the same denials for many years until the evidence became too overwhelming to deny anymore.

If one uses the threshold that suffering three or more concussions causes an athlete to be much more likely to develop CTE (even though recent research has shown that you don't need to have suffered three concussions to have a greatly increased risk of CTE), what's the percentage of MMA fighters who haven't had three concussions?

Most MMA fighters have been concussed at least that many times, some far more than that. The case of Kazushi Sakuraba is probably the most sad, grotesque, and heartbreaking (and Sakuraba recently said that he wants to fight for five to ten more years). Yes, that's in Japan, but even in the United States, this country's financially motivated athletic commissions don't seem to think twice about licensing someone like, say, Wanderlei Silva, who has been knocked out cold several times in official MMA fights and, by his own admission, was knocked out cold numerous additional times during full-contact training sessions at Chute Boxe.


Unconscious MMA Fighters Continuing to Get Punched

While MMA is safer than boxing overall, there are some ways in which MMA is actually less safe than boxing. One example: While it's true that giving boxers a standing-eight-count to get back to their feet after a knockdown really just enables boxers to take more punishment after they get back up, there is one thing that you rarely see in boxing, but which takes place all the time in MMA and is not even considered anything out of the ordinary: Fighters getting punched in the head repeatedly after they've already been knocked unconscious by a devastating strike to the head.

When an MMA fighter has very clearly knocked his or her opponent unconscious, it is the exception, not the norm, for the fighter to stop like Gerald Harris did after his recent knockout win over Dave Branch.

It's far more common for MMA fighters (like Hector Lombard and many, many others) to continue punching and punching, even after their opponent has very clearly been knocked unconscious, until the referee intervenes, which is often very late.

Sometimes, the fighter even throws one or two more punches after the referee intervenes (as was the case after Quinton Jackson knocked out Wanderlei Silva), and of course, the "go along to get along" athletic commissions sit on their hands and do nothing about it, not even issuing a small fine just to make the point that you shouldn't keep punching after the referee has intervened.

In addition to the times when it's obvious that a fighter is unconscious, there are also plenty of times when the punches to the head of the already-unconscious fighter are delivered in such rapid-fire fashion that it's impossible to fault the fighter who keeps punching (one example would be Cain Velasquez's knockout of Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira). In these cases, it's not as if the winning fighters had time to see that their opponents were already unconscious. However, to the losing fighters, the result is the same: Getting punched in the head repeatedly after they've already been knocked unconscious.

Many times (like in the aforementioned Nogueira-Velasquez fight), the knocked-out fighter wakes up very quickly after the punches stop. In these cases, they're usually able to give a post-fight interview with little-to-no ill effects apparent to the viewers at home. It's easy for many MMA fans (myself included) to delude ourselves into thinking that everything is okay in these situations. Two athletes competed, one of them won, one of them lost, and even if one of them got knocked out, they both seem fine now, but unfortunately, that's not the way it works. Many of the horrible symptoms of concussion-related brain damage take years to surface as the deposits of tau proteins in the brain build up over time.


Subconcussive Blows: No Concussions Necessary to Develop CTE

The study on the brain of deceased NFL player Chris Henry showed that you don't even need to have suffered a major concussion to have CTE, because you can also get CTE from many lesser blows to the head. Henry, who died during a domestic dispute in December 2009 at the age of only 26, was never diagnosed with a concussion during his football career, but the post-mortem examination of his brain revealed that he had CTE.

Think of all the times that MMA fighters get "rocked" or "buzzed" or "stung" during fights. An accumulation of these blows (both in fights and in training) can be more than enough to lead to athletes developing CTE and the associated problems that come with it, even if they are fortunate enough to go through their entire career without being knocked out.

The idea that you have to be a grizzled, old veteran of your sport to have CTE is an idea that is disproved by the Chris Henry case, and is further disproved by the recently released study on the brain of college football player Owen Thomas. Thomas, a captain on the University of Pennsylvania's football team, was only 21 years old and was never diagnosed with anything severe enough to be labeled "a concussion" during his football career. Thomas killed himself this past April, and a post-mortem examination of his brain revealed that he had CTE, which doctors believe was from an accumulation of subconcussive, "lesser" blows to the head.

How many MMA fighters have been "buzzed" or "stung" in fights that they've actually won? Too many to count. Sometimes, it's even discussed with a smile in the post-fight interview. There are many examples that I could cite, and one of them is when Rich Franklin said in the post-fight interview that he couldn't remember large portions of his unanimous decision victory against the late Evan Tanner, because he had been "rocked" earlier in the fight.

Many MMA fighters also suffer concussions and/or subconcussive blows to the head in fights that they lose, and they are often allowed to continue fighting even after they clearly should not be. To cite one of many possible examples, was there any doubt in anyone's mind that Jorge Gurgel was in no condition to continue fighting when he got "rocked" immediately after the bell sounded to end Round 1 of his recent fight against K.J. Noons? A glassy-eyed and woozy-looking Gurgel could barely make it back to his corner.

In the sixty seconds between rounds, Gurgel's corner-men, the ringside doctor, and the referee all failed to do their job. They apparently failed to realize that their job at that moment was to look out for the safety of the injured fighter and stop the fight, not to squeeze every last drop of "action" out of Gurgel. Predictably, shortly after the second round started, Noons stunned Gurgel again and won by TKO, but not before the amount of brain trauma suffered by Gurgel had far exceeded what it "needed" to be. Sadly, the case of Gurgel vs. Noons is not an isolated example; it's just one of the most obvious recent examples.

After a fight (or training session) in which a fighter gets "buzzed" or "stung" by subconcussive blows to the head, fighters sometimes have very few symptoms of a head injury. Sometimes, shortly after the offending strike, they have no symptoms whatsoever. Often, they can even pass neurological exams and feel 100% "recovered," while still having suffered brain damage that may only get worse in the years to come as deposits of tau proteins build up in their brains.

Many of the fighters who are suffering concussions or subconcussive blows to the head today, and are at risk for developing CTE, may not experience any of the signs of CTE for many years, giving them a false sense of security in some cases. (How many fighters are able to rationalize anything to themselves by saying, "No matter how many other fighters are suffering from Health Problem X, that's not going to happen to me"?) By the time that any symptoms of CTE become apparent, years' worth of additional brain damage may have been inflicted.

These fighters and their doctors would have no way of knowing for sure if they have CTE while they're alive, because CTE can currently only be diagnosed by removing and examining someone's brain tissue after they have died.

One of the reasons that some athletes who suffer brain injuries later develop CTE, and some don't even if they have suffered the same number of brain injuries, is genetic. In 70% of the brains that they have studied, doctors at the Brain Injury Research Institute have found a gene that is believed to be a precursor gene. As is the case with many diseases, this indicates that some people are more susceptible to developing CTE if they are exposed to risk factors such as a brain injury, and some people are less susceptible.


Fighters Who Have Been Reduced to Shells of their Former Selves

There are countless fighters in MMA who have been reduced to shells of their former selves when it comes to their in-ring (or in-cage) performances, in part because they have taken so much punishment to the head over the years. In some cases, while these fighters' situations are still viewed as sad, many MMA fans (myself included) have been able to rationalize this in the past by saying, "Well, they're in their late 30s or 40s," which is generally considered "old" in sports. But in addition to the fact that being in one's late 30s or 40s is not "old" in life, many of these fighters don't even meet the sports definition of "old."

To name just a few examples: Jens Pulver is 35 (and though his recent losses have come by submission, he has gotten knocked down or "rocked" shortly before the submission in most of those fights). Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira is 34 (though an accident during his childhood may have accelerated his decline a couple of decades later). Keith Jardine is 34 (and he recently said that he had the "worst migraine in the world" and was "in a bad situation" before and during his fight against Trevor Prangley, but he fought anyway). Wanderlei Silva is 34 (and, in addition to the fact that he has been knocked out numerous times, he has lost five of his last seven fights). Andrei Arlovski is just 31 (and, in addition to the fact that he has lost his last three fights, he has been knocked out six times during his career).

I could list many more MMA fighters who have been reduced to shells of their former selves in the ring/cage; I have only listed fighters who are 35 years old or younger to illustrate the point that a fighter doesn't even have to be considered "old" by sports standards in order to fit that description.

Like athletes in other sports, all too many MMA fighters on the tail end of their careers don't know when the time has come for them to retire from the sport, and there's always one promoter or another who is still willing to book them (and many athletic commissions who are willing to license them).

In sports that don't involve brain injuries as an inherent part of the sport, staying around for too long in search of the next moment of glory, or the next adrenaline rush, or simply the next paycheck, can lead to athletes getting embarrassed or having their legacies diminished in some way.

In sports that do involve brain injuries as an inherent part of the sport, such as MMA, boxing, and football, staying around for too long in search of the next mega-dose of adrenaline can also lead to athletes significantly worsening the brain damage that they've already suffered.

Some MMA fighters (like Chuck Liddell) have taken so much punishment to the head that they actually speak differently than they used to. One of the biggest examples of slurred speech in boxing in the past several years is, ironically, James Toney, whose speech is so slurred that he sounds nothing like he did when he was younger. When Toney recently entered the world of mixed martial arts, this exposed MMA fans, writers, and fighters to Toney's badly slurred speech, which is something that they might not have previously been aware of.

Sadly, when it comes to how most people reacted to this, there seemed to be more people who thought it was funny that Toney needed subtitles than there were people who wondered why a fighter with such badly slurred speech was still being licensed to fight in MMA, boxing, or any other combat sport.

These are just some of the examples that I could cite, and these examples only include fighters from fairly well-known MMA promotions. Undoubtedly, there are countless other fighters that I have never heard of, fighting on small MMA shows, who could also be accurately described as shells of their former selves in the ring or cage.


MMA Fighter Suicides

Sadly, many of the times that we hear about these fighters in smaller MMA promotions are when something horrible happens, such as when a fighter dies from brain injuries suffered in a specific fight (like Sam Vasquez in 2007 and Michael Kirkham in 2010), or when a fighter commits suicide.

Both CTE and Alzheimer's disease involve tau protein deposits in the brain. These deposits affect different parts of the brain in people with CTE than they affect in people with Alzheimer's, although CTE can end up leading to many of the same symptoms, such as severe memory loss and other aspects of dementia.

Due to the parts of the brain that are affected, two of the problems faced by people with CTE are severe depression and decreased impulse control. If the combination of severe depression and decreased impulse control sounds dangerous, it should, as this deadly combination may have contributed to the suicides of football players and boxers.

While doctors have not yet tested the brains of dead MMA fighters to look for CTE, a troubling number of MMA fighters have commited suicide in recent years, and several more have attempted suicide. The actual numbers may be higher because this is just what I could find in a Google search, but these are the minimum numbers.

Since 2006, at least six MMA fighters have committed suicide, and three of those MMA fighters are believed by police to have killed someone else before they killed themselves. Additionally, three other MMA fighters have attempted suicide during the same time period.

The six MMA fighters who have committed suicide in the past four years are Shelby Walker in 2006; Jeremy Williams and Justin Levens in 2007; Cliff Moore in 2008; and Bobby Suggs and Kenny Trevino in 2010.

When the subject of MMA fighters committing suicide has been raised on the Internet, an all-too-common reaction is something to the effect of, "Well, those fighters weren't on the biggest MMA shows," as if that somehow changes the fact that these people were professional MMA fighters, and that they were human beings who had families (as did their victims in the murder-suicide cases).

In the case of Justin Levens, police say that he killed his wife, Sarah McLean-Levens, shortly before killing himself in 2007.

In the case of Bobby Suggs, police say that he killed his ex-girlfriend, Amber Zavala, shortly before killing himself earlier this year.

In the case of Kenny Trevino, both Trevino and his ex-girlfriend, Tiffanie Perry, were found dead in an apartment earlier this month. Their deaths are still being investigated, but police have indicated that Trevino was despondent and suicidal over his recent break-up, and that they are treating the case as a murder-suicide.

The MMA fighters who have had suicide attempts since 2006 are Andrei Arlovski, Mike Guymon, and Junie Browning.

How many of these MMA fighters who killed themselves or others had CTE? There's no way to know for sure, because post-mortem testing on their brain tissue was not done by the Brain Injury Research Institute, or by the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy at Boston University, the two organizations that have been at the forefront of CTE-related research. But I'd have to be kidding myself to think that the number of those fighters who had CTE is zero.


Painkiller Abuse in MMA

The issues with brain injuries have added to concerns that I've had for a long time about the problem of painkiller abuse in MMA, especially given the fact that the decreased impulse control that is associated with CTE is believed to make athletes who have CTE more likely to become addicted to a variety of substances.

A large percentage of the people that I grew up watching in pro wrestling have died prematurely, and while many of the published autopsy reports noted street drugs or steroids as a primary or secondary factor in their deaths, the single biggest killer of pro wrestlers over the years (as noted on autopsy reports) has been the abuse of painkillers, which is also a growing problem in MMA.

In most of the biggest MMA promotions, if you get injured during a fight, the promotion will pay for your medical expenses as a result of that injury. However, if you get injured during training camp, you are on your own financially with those injuries. Furthermore, since your paycheck as a fighter comes when you fight, it sets up a system in which you are essentially encouraged to go into fights with training injuries, because you need that next paycheck unless you're one of the few fighters like Brock Lesnar or Chuck Liddell with millions of dollars in the bank.

Continuing to train through injuries is something that goes hand in hand with painkiller abuse, as does going through with fights while injured, which is why there are more and more MMA fighters who have problems with painkillers.

Taking into account the fact that the vast majority of painkiller abusers are going to try to keep it hidden and are going to be reluctant going to admit to it publicly, just think of all the MMA fighters who have publicly admitted to abusing painkillers: Frank Mir, Joe Riggs, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Don Frye, and Mark Kerr, to name a few.

Then there are the MMA fighters who have denied it publicly, but whose friends, family, coaches, or training partners have discussed their issues with painkiller abuse, like Paulo Filho and Karo Parisyan.

Then there are the MMA fighters who abused painkillers in their pro wrestling days, like Brock Lesnar, who has said that he used to eat prescription pain pills like they were candy.

Again, logic dictates that these fighters represent a small fraction of the fighters who have actually abused painkillers.


A Recipe for Disaster

As I said at the beginning of this post, I have loved MMA for as long as I can remember.

However, the facts remain that when you combine the issue of painkiller abuse in MMA with the lack of collective bargaining, medical insurance, pension plans, or any athletic commissions that have the ability (or the desire) to conduct drug testing that is even remotely close to the standards of the World Anti-Doping Agency, and you combine all of that with the avalanche of emerging science about concussions, CTE, Alzheimer's-like syndromes, and even ALS-like syndromes, it adds up to a recipe for disaster in the years to come, and I just can't watch it anymore.

At the same time, I want to make it clear that I have still have a great deal of respect for the fighters who put their lives on the line by competing in MMA. I'm also not trying to act like I'm taking a moral high ground and looking down on anyone who watches MMA and continues to watch MMA in the future. I'm just saying that for me, personally, I can't continue to watch it.

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My personal experience

I remember meeting Phil Baroni in 2001. He was a fast-talking, sharp-tongued fighter who had the NYBA shtick down to a science.

I ran into him after an event last year. He couldn’t talk without slurring his words, and forgot which city he was in. I couldn’t believe it was the same man. Any commission who grants him a license to fight should be ashamed of themselves.

It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.

by Jesse Holland on Sep 27, 2010 9:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Great Read. Rec'd (although not sure if that means anything on the main page)

Combat sports have been around for more than 3 millenia. Let me repeat…3,000+ years. This is not ancient Rome where the combatants are slaves forced to duel each other to the death. Each fighter (and football player, hockey player, baseball player, etc.) makes a cognizant decision to enter into this profession and fight, block, tackle, etc. Even if they don’t know all of the details about CTE and ALS, that could affect them in their later lives, does anyone really believe that this will change their minds? When there are millions of dollars at stake, there will be people willing to do ungodly things to earn those funds.

I commend the author for making a choice, and hopefully sticking to it.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

My opinion

It’s a trade off and people should be allowed to make their own choices.

I can live longer if I don’t eat meat (so they say) so does that mean you should take meat away from me? What if I would rather live less time, but happier with eating meat? What if a fighter said they are willing to risk brain injury in there 60’s if they can fight in there 20’s and 30’s? Who are we to tell them they can’t do it?

Nothing Ever Changes When Nothing Ever Changes

by JasonFahQ on Sep 27, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know the other side of the coin is

A person could eat healthy, take care of themselves, never once get a concussion then be walking across the street tomorrow and be killed by some drunk running a red light. Was avoiding all risk, adhereing to a strict and healthy diet just a waste at that point?

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just wow. This is a hot topic (closed head injury/trauma) amongst my science/medicine friends right now
Watching Dream this past Friday I absolutely winced when Mayhem Miller was dropping bombs on Sakuraba. It was scary.
I love MMA, the combat and everything else. But refining / redrafting the current state of the rules should happen. I like the idea of penalizing guys like Lombard who hit someone repeatedly after they clearly gone. Not to single anyone out but you have to start somewhere and we should be more cautious with our competitors. As fans, coaches, referees and commissions our role is to protect the athletes. It couldn’t be clearer. Due to the combative nature of the sport – we can only manage risk not eliminate it. But anyone can ask the question of themselves right now?
Can we do better?
Yes. It’s a systemic approach. Education is key. Compassion required. Maybe the UFC should be putting aside 5% of every PPV to fund the medical side of what fighters futures will hold. Sure Randy Couture doesn’t need financial support? What about Jens Pulver?
What we have today – that are fathers and fore fathers never did is knowledge. The fact that MMAMania posts such an article as this topic, suggest that change is coming. The Don Kings of the world will always exists, but if we decide to not empower them or their actions as consumers – than change comes from us.
Really strong article. Great Post. Rec’d.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why should the successful take care of the unsuccessful? Seriously.

Should Randy Couture care what happens to Jens Pulver? Why? I am not saying that I don’t believe in some change to protect the fighters, but again, free will is a very powerful thing.

Why does the onus of change fall upon Zuffa? If the UFC’s 10 top draws, tomorrow, said they would not fight again until there is change, there would be change (after a few lawsuits). Too bad they will not, because the lifestyle assumed upon making a few million bucks needs to be upheld. These guys can hardly go back to making $50,000 (random amount) a year working a cubicle like the rest of us schlubs, huh?

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's tough for me to debate this the way I want via typing.

My message is not coming across.

Why? In principal… because we should.
Why? Because it will protect Zuffas long term investment and allow growth and a much lower level.

I fear for guys like Sean Salmon. And all the other I’ve never heard of who don’t make it – give up too much physically and up in dispar.

If I am the minority… shit.. I guess I just have to live with it.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't completely disagree

I just don’t believe in legislating the change. There are ways to do this properly, but MMA is a long way away from being as powerful as the NFLPA, and they have yet to exact change.

Like any hot-button issue, people will be on different sides. Knowing that Zuffa already pays too little (IMO), but more than anyone else, makes me wonder if there is a business model that can achieve both. Elite XC tried it. Affliction tried it. SF is trying it with VERY limited success. IS it possible?

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Change comes from the top of the pyramid...

and those guys including Zuffa are not known for “generosity”.

I think we are closer in agreeing on the overall.. but find differences in certain arguments.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps Zuffa haven't tried it...

because they’ve figured out already that such a model can’t be achieved, even if it’s just currently.
Perhaps Zuffa saw someting that EliteXC, Affliction and Strikeforce didn’t. It only makes sense, because Zuffa hasn’t yet failed where they all have.

Arlovski : Kang : GSP : Rampage : Lytle : Huerta : Quarry : Serra : Wandy : Pulver : Alvarez

by ArlovsKang on Sep 28, 2010 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

And by model...

I mean a realistic one, that can be worked out so that they are able to provide these fighters with sufficient compensation, while at the same time retaining enough funds to keep the business afloat and working effectively.
It’s obviously not something that’s easily achieved, because all three aforementioned MMA Companies have nose-dived trying to do it.
Sure, they don’t make as much money as Zuffa, but on the flipside Zuffa’s fighters demand a much higher salary. It’s a bit of a double-edged sword really…

Arlovski : Kang : GSP : Rampage : Lytle : Huerta : Quarry : Serra : Wandy : Pulver : Alvarez

by ArlovsKang on Sep 28, 2010 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's like any job, do you really wanna work for a company that doesn't offer you any insurance, 401k or any real long term benefit of any kind??

I fill out an application with these expectations in mind, I know when I sign up to work for so and so that this is what I should get. Fighters don’t get shit; imo that needs fixing.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

nice. I couldnt spit that out. Good one

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am with you on that

I have been in numerous heated debates on this topic. The top of the pyramid is making billions on these guys. I think they can at least give some more back to the fighters

enzo-enormous

by enzo-enormous on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know when I sign up to work for so and so that this is what I should get

The fighters know that they do not have these things, but with success, they will have enough cash to pay for it themselves.

As an example, when the tech start-ups in the 1990’s were formed, NONE of them offered even health benefits, let alone 401(k), dental, etc. The reason for this is if the business “hit” these guys would get enough options to buy the health care company. Same situation. All or nothing. Doesn’t make it “right”, but we disagree on what is “right”.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea but not all fighters experience that type of success

And people tend to do what they love to do; yea they’ll settle for these conditions but only cause they’ve got no other option. It’s an entertainment industry, everyone’s sitting ringside or on their coach calling for violence but no one wants to pick up the tab if someone gets hurt/retired cause of the training or a fight. That IMO is wrong; someone smoking their entire life knows what the risks are, they’re on the side of every package; but if they get lung cancer their insurance still picks up the tab on the Chemotherapy.

These guys are in a very abnormal line of work, but it’s still a job. IMO they’re entitled to benefits like anyone else in any other reputable company.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody is ENTITLED to anything.

That is my problem to begin with. Entitlements are why we are broke (as a country). To me, thinking that you deserve something, anything, is wrong. Work hard and earn it. Then there is no mistaking why you have it and IF you deserve it.

As far as the little above rant relates to MMA, the fighters know that Zuffa does not offer the benefits you speak of (although since they are private, we don’t know the real benefits package), and they still sign with them nonetheless. Again, the fighters hopefully have weighed the options and determined that the UFC is the correct organization for them. Why would you burden the owners of a business additional costs when the fighters are not demanding change?

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody is ENTITLED to anything. That is my problem to begin with. Entitlements are why we are broke (as a country). To me, thinking that you deserve something, anything, is wrong. Work hard and earn it. Then there is no mistaking why you have it and IF you deserve it.

I picture this rant taking place as you sit in your rocking chair on the porch sipping a glass of lemonade and speaking unnecessarily loud to your grandson. I sure hope I’m right ;-)

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 27, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope, but I was that kid getting spoken to and it sunk in.

There is a reason I am successful. It has nothing to do with entitlements.

Quick aside…I went back to school in my early 30’s for an advanced degree. There was a kid (20-23) in my economics class that asked the prof how he could have gotten a 56 on his exam. The professor, being from a African country, did not quite understand the question (I am assuming from the language barrier) and said…“because you didn’t study enough?” The kid was livid and filed a formal complaint against the prof. I actually had to talk to the dean of student affairs because I got a good grade and teh dean wanted to make sure the test was not “too hard”. REALLY?

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I completely agree with you, I was just joking around.

There is no substitution for hard work and I think that is lost in large part on younger generations. I blame a lot of it on the litigious nature of our society, at least here in the US. It sets the precedent that nothing is ever your fault and eliminates personal accountability.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 27, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Fucking Truth.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 27, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish I could rec this green.

People need to read this.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to think that as a young person I take full responsibility for my decisions as we should all

That’s why I hate it when people make excuses for anything, if you’ve made a mistake then own up and look to make up for it, don’t try to blame it on others when it is you that failed.

"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion

by David W-S on Sep 28, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said, David.

For the record I’m 26, so I’m not exactly old, and was speaking for my generation as much as any. And I completely agree with you, but I think that it’s becoming increasingly common for young people to look for someone to blame when things go wrong.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 29, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

In defense of young people, older individuals are just as guilty of this type of behavior.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 29, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

My perception is that there’s a growing expectation of entitlement among younger generations that wasn’t present during the upbringing of older generations. But I admit I’m no expert on the subject and my perception doesn’t necessarily match reality.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 29, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

MMA is a violent sport. There is no getting around it. Technical or not – the outcome sought after is injurious to one competitor if not both. Even when we label it a sport just like with any other combat sport. Every fan has to reconcile within themselves if they’re for the lack of a better word – bloodthirsty enough to watch two for the most part decent human beings fight for the scrap that is the fight purse for our entertainment. But as Ulf plainly put it – on the same token, every fighter has to come to grips with reality too. It doesn’t take a scientist to realize that fighting is less good for your overall health than not. They get inside that cage seeking something they can’t get anywhere else. They all start out with clear conscience and sound minds to understand what they are doing. In the end everyone (fighter or fan) is there to experience a visceral and primal sensation that you won’t find anywhere else and that will never change- it’s just that for some of us, it’s exactly what we seek and for most they can’t stomach it.

Big Nog for Life
Inventor/supporter of "Gleison Tibau to Featherweight" movement.

by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Sep 27, 2010 10:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Great post +1

Never tell your problems to anyone...20% don't care and the other 80% are glad you have them.

by Jamie The Peach Hunter on Sep 27, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

2nd on a good post....NNR...

"My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them."

by Da Monkey on Sep 27, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It is what it is.
I don’t thirst for blood in watching football or MMA but I’m not going to act like the violence isn’t one of the major attributing factors to my enjoyment either. I hate it, when I hear all the NFL booth guys, owners and coaches say things like, “we have to protect the QB” or “the health and well being of our players is our first priority”. NO IT’S NOT! If that were true you’d send them all home and we’d all be watching the WNBA. I’m down with taking any steps to reduce injurys or long term damage, but don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

"Remember men, we are all winners in the eyes of Christ...except for the guy still bleeding on the canvass"

by Jrandolph on Sep 27, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with violent sports,

but something should be done to stop fighters continuing to pound on another fighters head when it is plain to see to everyone that the fighter is out cold, and as far as I am concerned when you bring in football kicks and head stomps into it, it no longer becomes a sport,, that kind of stuff should be left to the thugs at football matches and out on the streets. I really do not see the appeal or the want for some to have this in MMA, I do not see what football head kicks and head stomps have to do with mixed martial arts and think people who do find that appealing are seriously disturbed. Great quote froem a great film The Outlaw Josie Wales.

by Ade on Sep 28, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed, Ade. Good post.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 28, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

disagree

If I can elbow you in the face, you should be able to kick mine, even if we are on the ground. It looks dramatic, sure, but it is no less dramatic than an overhand right from a good stand-up guy.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The MMA fighters who have had suicide attempts since 2006 are Andrei Arlovski,

when did AA try to kill himself? did I miss something?

mondaymorningblackbelt.com

by kevjack115 on Sep 27, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought he had a go at Russian Roulette or something like that.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, I don’t think thats attempting suicide. maybe

mondaymorningblackbelt.com

by kevjack115 on Sep 27, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well it’s displaying suicidal tendencies. Either that or balls of steel.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thats child play in eastern Europe...

j/k…Seriously though,It is a cry fro help more than anything.

"My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them."

by Da Monkey on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ya, cry for help and serious depression.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cry for help I def agree with, but depression is jumping to conclusion.

Many reasons as to why someone would do such a thing,(depression would be up there on the list though) but telling people about it means he surely wants attention for it.

Anderson Silva is by far the number one P4P king!!! Even when he is losing a fight he still comes back and finishes for the win! GSP dominates the whole fight and still can't finish! LOL

by MBOW on Sep 29, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, yeah, that’s true. I heard in Eastern Europe they use a semi-auto to play it too.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's the way I've always played it.

<_<

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

He accepted a fight with Fedor

Anderson Silva will fall via brutal Republican dry-humping.

by Johnny WF on Sep 27, 2010 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

cha-ching!

Haha. Can anyone find the romoshop of Arlovski’s unconscious, open-eyed face with police tape added into the picture which makes it look like he was murdered? It was so funny. I can’t find it anymore though.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

he played Russian roulette

and admitted it was stupid, but he did it to feel the thrill. Dumb thing to do, but was not a suicide attempt.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 27, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats what I thought
funny how it was for the thrill and not a suicide attempt yet if he had "lost" the game, it woulda been suicide

mondaymorningblackbelt.com

by kevjack115 on Sep 27, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it would be ruled accidental death,

but yeah either way he’d be the one doing it.
The ‘suicide attempt’ that wasn’t made me question the other statements as fact in this piece, so I can’t really take any of it seriously.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 27, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the same for Bunji jumping and things like that.

These activities release the purest adrenaline you can feel, better than any drug. While you may not be the type of person to engage in these actions, the person doing them is not trying to commit suicide. And does someone who fights for a living strike you as a normal? They have a different mindset than you.
And AA would never do that to his family. It was not a suicide attempt, not very safe or intelligent, sure. AA is not suicidal.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you just compare Bungi jumping to Russian Roulette?

I can’t quite wrap my brain around this.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

that doesn't surprise me

read it again to get the comparison, it may sink in.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

big difference in risk and I believe you are really stretching the similarities here.

there is a 1 in 6 chance of death every time you pull the trigger in RR.

I have jumped out of an airplane over 5,000 feet up 11 times…still here. I get the adrenaline rush from skydiving.

I have bungee jumped off of the New River Bridge in WV…still here. I get the adrenaline rush from bungee jumping.

I have rafted a class 4 rapid (New River, WV) that is impassable during the rainy season…still here. I get the adrenaline rush from white water rafting.

I would never consider playing RR. Not even close to the same.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 28, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree Ulf, particularly as a fellow adrenaline junkie.

Russian Roulette is much more closely related to over-dosing on pills than bungie jumping. I don’t see how that can be seen as anything but a suicide attempt.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 28, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have bunji jumped and have done drugs.

You’re right, there is no comparison, drugs are much much better!!! lol

Anderson Silva is by far the number one P4P king!!! Even when he is losing a fight he still comes back and finishes for the win! GSP dominates the whole fight and still can't finish! LOL

by MBOW on Sep 29, 2010 7:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reread it, still not sinking in

The issue is, 6 guys playing Russian Roulette, someone is guaranteed to die. 6 guys go sky diving or bungee jumping, no one is expected to die. I am fairly confident most clinical psychologists would disagree with your assessment that playing Russian roulette does not indicate suicidal tendencies.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

In the vast majority of places

if you die after playing Russian Roulette, the coroner will list the type of death as “suicide”. If I die from skydiving, that is most certainly not the case.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one died when AA played

You all are taking it to the extreme and out of context, like the guy who wrote the piece did claiming it was a suicide attempt. Nobody was killed. Was just a dumb thing he did and he admits it. The only way anyone knows this is because he said it himself. He was not trying to commit suicide. I have also jumped out of an airplane and was called stupid and suicidal. I’m not. The logic is plain to see, it’s just not the way most of you think.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It may be plain to see for you, but I really struggle to see how you can lump those together. While both things are risky, one is definitely associated with suicidal thoughts/tendencies and the other is not (speaking from a clinical perspective, not what your neighbor thinks about you jumping out of a plane).

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, try and think: he fights for a living.

The logic between people like him, and the guy in the cubicle next to you are not the same. He does not think the same or feel the same. I guess I won’t be able to convey that to you people. I see what you are saying, but you are not getting me.
I can play this last card, I know AA and he did not want to die.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure ALL of the losers in a game of RR didn't want to die either.

Doesn’t make them any less retarded.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes it was very stupid and he admitted it.

but no one died, and we have all done stupid things.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that what you tell yourself to think this situation is OK? I've never done anything this stupid, there's levels of stupid you just don't go to.
but no one died

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's ok.

But people are talking like it was suicide and someone died and crap. It was not a suicide attempt and no one was killed. But go ahead and think what you will, you obviously think you can pass judgement and all the ‘retards’ of the world.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Playing RR is insane

Your willing to risk your life right there and then with a 1-6 chance of never seeing life again. You have to pretty depressed to take those chances of killing yourself. And yes that is suicide no matter how you put it if he did happen to take his life. Taking pills to end your life even though half the time the pills don’t do the job is an attempt as is cutting your wrist.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Sep 28, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get what theCloser is saying and I wouldn't say that playing RR is a suicide attempt.

It is stupid (obviously) but some people do stupid shit for an adrenaline rush or just think they look coll doing it or saying they did it. Why would AA even mention that he did it? I think if someone really wanted to die, they would play the game with 6 bullets in the gun.

Anderson Silva is by far the number one P4P king!!! Even when he is losing a fight he still comes back and finishes for the win! GSP dominates the whole fight and still can't finish! LOL

by MBOW on Sep 29, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think in most cases, it usually should be classified as an attempt. But, I get the closer’s opinion that there may be a few individuals out there that honestly believe that they are invincible. Someone who has that mindset most assuredly has other issues to be dealt with, but you could argue that they didn’t attempt to take their lives as they truly believed they would be fine. Hard for me to grasp, as it is an insane mindset, but I admit I can’t always imagine how and why a person thinks a certain way.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 29, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Please see below dictionary reference for suicidal. Maybe he falls under #3 but his actions were suicidal no matter what his mind frame was.

su·i·cid·al   /ˌsuəˈsaɪdl/ Show Spelled
[soo-uh-sahyd-l] Show IPA
 
–adjective
1. pertaining to, involving, or suggesting suicide.
2. tending or leading to suicide.
3. foolishly or rashly dangerous: He drives at a suicidal speed.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Sep 29, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

When did this happen again?

Because AA has plenty of fights that should have quickly dispelled any delusions he had of invincibility.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe so, but the mind of a man who plays russian roulette is not a good one. That is always true. The same cannot always be said for someone who voluntarily jumps out of a plane.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree

That’s how you feel about, but not how I feel about it, or how AA feels about it either.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's the point

it isn’t just me who thinks this way. Medical professionals also label this the same. I am not trying to throw mud at AA or anything like that man. I am just calling it for what it is, a troubled soul who lost his way.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

but that's not 'what it is'

yes it’s an extremely stupid thing to do: the Belarussian fighter playing Russian Roulette, but was not a suicide attempt.
It is a general med pro theory, but is not the gospel that applies to every human mind in the world.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are dancing around semantics here. I say troubled, you say stupid.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

and you are taking only one word

and not taking in the whole idea. But you have your way of thinking and beliefs and I respect that. You won’t be persuaded to say another side, so we can agree to disagree. You want to think AA tried to commit suicide, I tried to explain he didn’t, so here we are.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been moved a little bit. I have read and re-read your points and am honestly trying to come to an understanding. How about this- he was at a place mentally where he didn’t care about life and death. Hence him playing such a dangerous and stupid game.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's cool of you

ok how about this: he did care about life and death, he was just sure he would win. Like he was sure he would beat Fedor before flying through the air. It’s his mentality and his ego. I know him because I’m close with a good friend of his, have seen him in relationships. He just does not think and behave like average people.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t really think from the ego perspective, that was a better description. I can’t relate, but am willing to admit that I can’t define everyone’s state of mind.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

He just does not think and behave like average people.

Just curious, I’m not baiting here, nor am I trying to disprove anything or belittle your comment. I’m genuinely curious. In what way does he not think like an average person? Could you give some examples?(Other than the fact he’s a pro fighter.)

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 29, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Avoid the question then. I figured you were speaking shit.

Top 5 P4P keyboard warrior.

by Jackanapes on Sep 30, 2010 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry man

I can’t really give specific examples I’m sure you understand. But it’s things like how he interacts with people like a girl he is dating or his good friends, he does not behave in a normal manner.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 30, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. Thanks, dude. No worries :)

Top 5 P4P keyboard warrior.

by Jackanapes on Sep 30, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how do you know him? Willing to say? I am honestly curious.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's nothing to be taken out of context. He played Russian Roulette. That is a suicide attempt or a cry for help. Either way, Arlovski should be tied up in a white padded room.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh this that what it is?

because you said so? Or heard it somewhere?
It astonishes me that people who claim to love this sport have such a closed mind and no understanding for the sport or the fighters.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually

I think that claiming that playing russian roulette wasn’t a big deal, and wasn’t a cry for help is more detrimental to AA’s health than to call it for what it is. You are right, if he really wanted to commit suicide, he would have put 6 bullets in the chamber, but any man who puts a gun to his head, with live rounds in the damn gun, then pulls the trigger for “fun” has some issues that need to be addressed. That is not healthy.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think this has anything to do with MMA. Just because we're discussing it on an mma board.

Fighting doesn’t make someone want to play RR. Mental diseases do. That’s why he should be tied up. That has nothing to do with mma.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe it does because we are discussing an MMA FIGHTER.

Shaking their hand and taking a pic can’t give you the understanding of how different a lot of them are.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

this makes sense to me

I sit in an office all day- I can’t tell you with a straight face that I could explain what goes through the mind of a man who gets punched in the face for a living.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm impressed to read that you got what I was awkwardly trying to explain.

You were correct with what you were saying, for most people. But with some of these guys the normal rules don’t apply.
Good talk, I respect that.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 28, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Closer, thank you for your input and posts. Although we disagree, I respect your loyalty to AA and your point of view.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 29, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

cool, same here.

we don’t have to agree with each others views, the point is to get them across and understood I think.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 29, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I could explain what goes through the mind of a man who gets punched in the face for a living.

 Like any other lifestyle it depends on the person. Could you imagine sitting in a office desk 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for 30 years!? Could you imagine being a EMS and dealing with dead bodies for 25 years straight!? Getting punched in the face doesn’t mean you might try and take a risk on your life by any means.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Sep 28, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

CroCop is an embarrassment to the Pride name. He tarnished his legacy beyond repair. Mitrione should have been fighting Mir to make that fight competitive.

Does Mirko Cro Cop look like a bitch? Then why did Frank Mir f*ck him like one.

by tkkpal on Sep 29, 2010 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very well put, Puck Head.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 29, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

agree

It shouldn’t be limited to just the person who gets punched in the face. That was a good example as I honestly don’t have that mindset, so I can’t say I know for sure exactly what goes through their head.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 29, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

that is true

But one last thing from me on this to consider:
I was sparring a couple months ago and got struck in the head very hard. I got up and my training was over. After a shower I felt fine and was driven home by a friend. In the middle of the ride my heart started beating very fast and a feeling impossible to describe overtook my entire body. I honestly though I was going to die. I recovered.
I returned to sparring a few days later, and in the back of my mind I will always think that if I get hit that hard again, maybe I will die. But I don’t really give it much thought, and continue to do what I do. Stupid? Suicidal? I don’t know. I do know I don’t want to die though.
Anyways, I respect all your points of view, but I also do know AA did not want to die. Get attention, feel tough, act stupid, maybe.

'How's taste my pee pee pee?'

by theCloser on Sep 29, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah and MMA is moving in the right direction

The days of Chute Box type of training is gone. The Knockouts nowadays in MMA is like that of a high level Karate or similar striking art where the Black Belts have to make Head Contact to make a point (that is how it is in the area I am from). My Sensei got Knocked down/out 2 times while testing for his black belt. The one shot KO is NOT as damaging getting KOed due to several repeated punches. We have not seen punch drunk 70 year old Karate guys. The 10th Degree that my Dojo associates with sparred 6 different black belts for 10 minutes a piece straight on his 60th birthday. Why? Because he could! I think that is the realm MMA is going into. Very good read though!

by Edgecrusher71 on Sep 27, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

he was probably drunk second time round, jokes.

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 27, 2010 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

It is a great read

but really what can you do? If you’re a fan the only way to get a fighter to stop would be to boycott their fights and hope everyone else follows suit; and for a lot of these fighters it’s sad, but it’s their passion and ultimatley their choice. I do agree that the commission needs some better competency tests for the fighters; cause Ken Shamrock is one of those that should never be licensed; he should’ve been done in 2005/2006 at the latest. Chuck also has the slurred speach goin on; he’s always stuttered on camera but never slurred his words in the past.

And being a huge Wand fan I’d rather see him retire and go on to live a long healthy life then suffer CTE. Tough to deal with in that aspect, as a fan it seems like there’s really nothing you can do. There’s always someone else out there willing to watch and shell out the $$ to see the fight and there’s always the fighters that just don’t want to quit. In Wand’s case I really don’t wanna see him quit.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

totally agree jesse....

Shonie Carter is another. He cant talk correctly at all anymore. I mean I love MMA, always have, and always will…. but I cant help but feel horrible for some of these guys that go down such a destructive path. Who knows what will come of this in the future.

www.facebook.com/djpullout
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by DJ Pullout on Sep 27, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

not nice

i don’t know why you feel that way but horses for courses my friend. i hope neither you nor someone you love meets someone like you.

by HolyGhost on Sep 28, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

man, I thought I was an asshole.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't you both be assholes?

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh for sure

but we are different levels for sure. I talk some shit, but man, I don’t really wish ill will on any of these guys.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 28, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know.

I do sometimes though. Fuck em.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 28, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I liked the article

and I very much respect the effort and conviction. BUT I totally disagree with the premise and morality behind it. So are you also going to start walking and riding your bike everywhere and live w/o electricity because of the inherent dangers of coal mining and being a ruffneck? Are you going to give up on gas and electricity because of all the deaths in these jobs every year? How about all the people who get trapped? How about all the people who are losing their jobs every year because of mines and riggs being shut down? How about all the people who live in poverty because of the loss of those jobs? And the depression that comes WITH THAT?

* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki

by Onemansyn on Sep 27, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's ok to disagree,

but everyone should be allowed to set their own reasonable boundaries. I happen to disagree with the conclusion, but it’s a thoughtful, well-constructed position and I absolutely applaud the author’s conviction and conclusion.

Everyone decides their own limits for peril. Personally, I never drive above the speed limit, and generally keep to the right lane on the freeway. But at the same time, I also sailed a 65 foot sailboat all the way from the USA to southeast Asia single-handed without any kind of safety net. Everyone should be allowed to make their own determinations as to what is acceptable and unacceptable, and so long as those determinations stop before making obstructive contact with other people, they should be applauded for the self-determination.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

bit dramatic .. i mean you can use this same excuse to stop watching everything .. i’m not watching dancing with the stars anymore cause one of them fell and got a concussion. i’m not saying i don’t agree getting hit the head alot is bad but could you see wanderlai serving burgers in mc’dees? , no hes a fighter.

by sunnytimes on Sep 27, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

i agree with you, it took him a while to figure out that people do actually get hit in the head in MMA. Why stop watching it now, stupid in my opinion.

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 27, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

no one has a gun to their head and making them fight

mondaymorningblackbelt.com

by kevjack115 on Sep 27, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

agreed also

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

i ain't watching "soccer" aka football because of all the dirty tackles which sometimes result in pain or suffering. For this reason i think the game of soccer/football is too dangerous so i have chose never to watch it ever again.

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha I'll pretend I'm with you and that's the reason I don't watch soccer :)

(as opposed to it being so boring, that I’d rather watch paint dry)

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed with you lads

Well written article but it’s a very negative way to live, why stop watching something you love because it’s dangerous? Nobody is forced to do a dangerous job or compete in sports, people do it because they want to despite the risks. I’d honestly much rather live a life doing what I love than missing out just so I could potentially a live longer but less enjoyable life. You only live once so why spend your time worrying over what could happen? Just live it how you want for better or worse.

"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion

by David W-S on Sep 27, 2010 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't think this has to do with danger in general,

or that people shouldn’t imperil themselves during the pursuit of their dreams. I think it’s just a personal decision to answer the question of “How far is too far?” Nothing wrong with someone erring on the side of caution.

I mean, c’mon. Any ‘sanctity of life,’ or public protection legislation is built upon the exact same argument’s mechanical components. Everyone has a different opinion on where the limits should be. Trembow is just offering his opinion for public consumption, probably with the unstated goal of bringing the subject into better light so that something can be done about what he perceives to be a major failing in the current sport’s model.

That’s commendable. It deserves respect, even if you wholeheartedly disagree with it.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly man, completely pointless article in my opinion, why would anyone stop watching the best sport in the world just because they just realised that there was an element of danger involved.

i bet they guy who wrote this article would prefer the fighters to wear protective head gear etc. Come on now watch it or not but don’t waste my time with some rediculous post.

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 27, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just for the sake of argument . . .

The post in no way “wastes your time” if you don’t voluntarily spend your time reading it. Just putting it out there.

"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute

by TheGreg on Sep 28, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

i was kinda drunk when i posted that comment, apologies lol

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 28, 2010 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

This is becoming Mania’s #1 excuse for an aberrant post. But a legitimate one! Haha.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 28, 2010 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

check the time on my post 3.22 AM GMT for me! LOL

God only knows why i decided to come on mania?

"Being challenged in life is inevitable, being defeated is optional." - Roger Crawford.

Arm Triangle possibly the most underrated submission in MMA as proven by Brock Lesnar

by JamPark on Sep 28, 2010 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

He's going to be misssing out, and for what?

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Sep 27, 2010 9:29 AM EDT reply actions  

to feel better about himself

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good article, but he’s not really much of a fan if he can walk away from it just like that. Or maybe he’s one of those crazy honorable types who lives by a code, the kind of person like Batman, who wouldn’t kill the Joker if he had the chance to lock him up instead because it would be morally reprehensible. That, my friends, is the real joke.

But seriously, the best kind of respect one could give is to watch it and admire them, like most of us do, and appreciate how good a sport it is. Because shunning the sport and what past fighters have achieved isn’t doing much to appreciate a their past. Yeah, let’s walk away and view that Rampage, for example, got knocked out for nothing, for if we took the author’s stance all that history is for nothing.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree. I respect the author for making this decision. If he sees the ever-growing evidence that this leads to the destruction of fighters/football players, and in some cases their loved ones, and he chooses not to support that, good for him.

If he decides he can no longer support this, that’s his decision to make, and he’s entitled to it. I think it’s a good thing that he is willing to stop watching something that he loves just because he knows that it may lead to the fighters dying a slow, painful death. I don’t think the point is that he wants the sport to be banned, or that he thinks he will hurt the financial well-being of the sport because he’s not watching. He is simply to the point where he can no longer watch it in good conscience. I’m not to that point, but good for him.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Sep 27, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I see what you mean, but it seems like a waste. Obviously that’s his prerogative but to what purpose? He’s made some input by writing a good article about it so why not keep doing that while still watching it? He could profess how much of a fan he is, while still watching it, while still educating people about it, doing something productive rather than just walking away from it all. It would not make him a hypocrite it would just make him a concerned member of the audience.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s like me not watching any kind of movie with violence in it because someone somewhere has been influenced by it and caused violence on another person. So what is this guy gonna do, stop watching movies as well? He may as well become a monk and confine himself to an monastery.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, you're misrepresenting the situation when you make poor analogies like the movie violence one. He doesn't want to support something that directly leads to catastrophic and debilitating

injuries. This isn’t something fictional like a Rob Zombie movie where some knuckle head may try to go re-enact something. This is people bludgeoning each other to the point where they get severe brain damage later in life. I didn’t see him calling for anyone to do anything. I just see him presenting facts, and saying that because of this, he is choosing to not watch anymore. I really don’t understand why this is a hard concept to understand. What the hell is wrong with someone no longer supporting something that they can’t morally justify? If he has looked at enough evidence to conclude that this is something that he can’t support because of the damage done to humans involved, why would you question his decision? He’s not making you do anything.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Sep 27, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow!

That is an excellent post Diceman. I just gained a lot of respect for you in that one post. There is no possible way for me to agree more that I do right now. Very intelligent and well spoken post!

enzo-enormous

by enzo-enormous on Sep 27, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dice, that's what were here to discuss.

To me the “I am dropping this because I don’t agree with some aspects” approach is not the best choice if he really cares about the issue.

An active approach to change things would be much more fitting for such an obviously passionate individual. He didn’t put in much about how he would handle the business if he had the power… focusing on just the negatives does not solve problems.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, he didn't just walk away.

He put out a detailed, thoughtful and well-built explanation to go with it.

He actually did do something about it, he just happened to do it moments before closing the door behind himself.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the hell is wrong with someone no longer supporting something that they can’t morally justify?

Calm down. Who said anything is wrong with it or that it’s a hard concept to understand? It obviously makes him feel better so that’s all that matters. It doesn’t mean one can’t have the view that it seems rather pointless given all the other things in society that have a negative side to them as well. And as a fan it seems to me he’s not as big a fan as he professes to be.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea it's not a problem to express an opinion

But this really is a doom and gloom article; it’s 100% negative, there’s no real suggestion for any solution or any middle ground, it’s just like:

“this is how it is and it sucks so I’m done watching.”

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly what I said above there.

Focusing just on the negative does not solve problems. Doom and Gloom is a good way to classify this piece.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thats true OD and Freenow...

But he doesn’t need to bring forth some “ideas” on what he can do to make a difference. If you really think about it… he is making a difference just by writing this article. Everyone on this site, today, is now thinking about this. That is some difference right there. The best way to start a change for the future is by education. This article is very educational. It has caused me to go thru the last hour plus researching all this so I can be better educated on the subject at hand.

I’m not one that will stop watching because of the long term effects, but it is the same type of thing that a lot of people deal with in their day to day lives.

Think about a mother…. sometimes, they have a daughter or son that is a total drug addict. There are many times that the mother, or father for that matter, decide that they would rather not be a part of their child’s life, simply because it causes them too much pain watching them do these things to themselves. My example is a little more dramatic, but its the point that I’m after.

 If he chooses to not watch, then that is totally on him. If he can educate people on his way out to give those same people something to think about, then that is a good thing to me

enzo-enormous

by enzo-enormous on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed EE

The article is a positive thing in itself as long as it has the desired effect, which is I am guessing to improve described conditions.

But his described action (distancing himself from the sport) could have the opposite effect if people read it and just stop watching as he does. So advocating that would not be a positive, although he does not directly do that.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on that too

I guess, if they just read the article and made an opinion without reading the pros and cons of all of our opinions too, then they aren’t really using it to educate themselves. It is always going to be up to the person to educate themselves as much as they can…

Hopefully, people will take the time to really think about this and be proactive about it in their own ways…

Im still going to watch mma without a hitch, but I am going to look much closer at the effects it is having on fighters.

enzo-enormous

by enzo-enormous on Sep 27, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

In life we run into all kinds of safety concerns

 From daily stress, accidents, unhealthy lifestyles, polution and random acts of violence.

 MMA is a sport that has safet concerns for sure but the athletes and fans understand the risks that come with MMA, boxing & football. They are living their life the way they want to. The risk of living and having long term problems happen everyday. How many people do you know ….that have or had cancer, smoke, drink, have been injured or killed from a accident, how many eat unhealthy, how many work were there is pollution, abuse drugs????

 There are so many other risk you have to ask yourselg how much greater is MMA, football and boxing than normal day to day living. I don’t know about most of you but what is life if you live it safe? To me sports like MMA and football is life and the risk that come with it are tghe reasons we like it. I guess we could play touch football, and light contact MMA? No I don’t think so what makes football and MMA exciting is the risk as well what makes us and the athletes feel more alive. We are all going to die someday the question that comes down in the end is how would you like to live. The athletes all understand the risks of what they do especially now days, and in the end they are living life the way they want to.

 In my opinion what he needs in this article to justify him not watching is athletes that regret playing because of what they may be going through now. But your not going to find many even if they have problems especially current day athletes because I believe most have enjoyed their lives, and have lived their lives to the fullest. We can worry about risk and if their is ways of preventing some of the more serious ones but in the end life with no risk doesn’t sound much like a life to me?

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Sep 27, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

True Jack. Walking away is the least productive thing.

Him not buying PPV’s anymore will put less money into MMA for things like he talks about : Education, drug testing, possible benefits etc.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree here.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

A person knows what they’re getting into when starting in mma. They have plenty of material out there to inform them of a pro vs cons. Who is to stop someone from doing what they really love.

I have a history of concussions and only one is sport related. No matter what you do, youre still putting yourself at risk, so i say fuck it and have fun while doing it!

I do a lot of jacking off, ya know, because I don’t get no women, so these arms are, like, humongously big. See it’s workout, and it’s pleasure.._" Charles Bennett

"He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day and looks like a ***** today." -Tank Abbott.

by ppwwpp on Sep 27, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions  

I doubt he'll stick to his decision.

MMA is like crack, once you start it’s hard to stop. And the UFC is like Columbia, they do it the best. These athletes want to be doing this. Do they know all of the potential dangers? Probably not. It’s a young sport. Do football players? Yes, it’s an old sport. And do you know what? They want you to watch. They don’t want to be taking punches in the face and have nobody watching them take it. They’re like Jenna Jameson. They want you to watch them take it… and dish it out. Without the fans, they couldn’t be doing what they love. And a lot of them wouldn’t get the best jobs, or even jobs they’d enjoy if they weren’t doing this. This author made a couple good points and then beat a dead horse despite it already being concussed. At the very least, I bet he writes a follow up article bragging how he still hasn’t watched MMA or written about it… whoops… I guess that’ll be writing about it.

formerly the original UFCAddict... back when mania used to keep score of how many comments we made. Moved up to 19th on UFC.com fantasy picks after one of the most boring UFCs ever.

by Geoff H. on Sep 27, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Every man and his dog knows what happens to fighters.

The stuff about ‘kidding himself’’ that “safer than boxing meant relatively safe” is bullshit. We all know that these guys aren’t doing themselves any good. But you know what, they do what they love for a living. Nobody is forcing them.

"Big guys, small gloves...somebody's gonna fall..." (Gabriel Gonzaga)

by Kenwoo on Sep 27, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Great post but....

I just can’t help my self… Stop me please! I’m addicted to MMA, Football and Boxing!!! I just can’t watch Tennis… =^{

by Pack Leader on Sep 27, 2010 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Looks like someone needs to go to MMAA Anonymous.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the main thing/only thing you can really do is

Tighten up the commission and the requirements for obtaining a license, so you can stop guys like Ken Shamrock from meeting a tragic, painful end.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 9:55 AM EDT reply actions  

while i understand the seriousness of potential head injuries and long term effects of being an athlete in a contact or combat sport, we need to realize (as bad as this sounds) that it is and always will be a part of these sports. Nothing will ever fix it. You can’t take the hitting out of football, hockey, rugby, etc. and it’s inevitable in combat sports. having said that, i believe it is very hard to link any suicides with having participated in these sports. scientifically, maybe it’s conceivable that it possibly has to do with head injuries, however it is far more likely it has to with depression linked to their lifestyle. besides the athletes we speak of love what they do and most if not all are aware of the risks associated with their respective sports. they choose to take those risks so that they are able to live their dreams as a pro athletes, getting paid to do what they love most to do. more extensive education for the athletes on the risks may help to some degree,but head injuries will always be an issue for these sports.

by Carthur on Sep 27, 2010 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I've often thought about this..

but these people are making decisions like anyone else. My job might expose me to cancerous chemicals and I may die from that but no one would know the difference. I could feel sorry for them but then I remember these people are doing what they love. Everything has risks/rewards. If you don’t want to watch OK, but that’s not going to stop people like Evan Dunham whose first words right after coming out of a war are “I love this sport!”.

by HappyLittleTreez on Sep 27, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Hahaha nice.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

sop complaining, the show was very entertaining (cept the main event)

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was drinking and betting (went 6:1), so maybe that added immsensely to my enjoyment.

If I was sober and watched alone or something I might have been bored to death.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

seriously? the whole card was bad.

The worst main event in history, plus two incorrectly judged fights, (Nogueria won, and evan dunham won) plus lytle and serra having a sloppy boxing match cause eveyone feels like if they dont stand with lytle theyre a pussy, plus melvin guillard turning into a cautious slow fighter thanks to greg jackson, equals the worst card i can remember (ive only been a fan for about 2 years)

by sgreen12 on Sep 27, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol Nog won? You can't be serious. Even the biggest wrestler-haters must see that Nog lost.

Sherk won also, second round decided the fight and the judges though Sherk won it. Nothing wrong with that, stop crying.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Read

I wouldnt object to a stoppage to avoid hitting a fighter when he is down or out. It takes away from the sport a bit, but we have to protect the fighters. AND FYI all drugs have side effects, even vitamin C. It is in the abuse of ANY drug where the problem lies. There are no studies that indicate steroids cause suicidal thoughts, but painkillers are another story.

by mayhemike on Sep 27, 2010 10:16 AM EDT reply actions  

I want to fight

I may have the education and connections necessary to get a good job, but there’s just something about fighting. It just feels so good. I know perfectly well what can happen, and yet I don’t care.

Anderson Silva will fall via brutal Republican dry-humping.

by Johnny WF on Sep 27, 2010 10:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Ive posted on here quit a few times that I

cant stand watching guys get stiff body KO’d and that I think guys need to start getting suspended and fined for hitting opponents that have been ko’d already. The excuse “well the ref didnt stop it” or “I just went t until the ref jumped in” is bullshit, you can clearly see when a guy is lifeless infront of you and its sickening to me. I still think that Dan Henderson should have been severly punished for trying to kill Bisping. I liked Dan up until that episode and now have less respect for him than almost anyone in MMA, he laughed about it and said it felt good. To me that attitude is sickening! That said I love MMA more than anything with the exception of golf, Im a 3 handicap and golf is my life! Anyways we all know what happens in combat sports but I think more can be done to protect the fighters.

by HEELHOOK on Sep 27, 2010 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

I agree. I have always liked Dan but that was a dog of a move. I lost a bit of respect for him too after that.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Plus, I like Bisping (at least more than most around here) so I’m a bit biased.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with O damn he got caught

They dont have facts or studies to prove suicide or murder is a direct result of steroids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Benoit_double_murder_and_suicide

by mayhemike on Sep 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

This quote here pretty much sums it up for me

“Tests were conducted on Benoit’s brain by Julian Bailes, the head of neurosurgery at West Virginia University, and results showed that “Benoit’s brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer’s patient.”18 Tests conducted on Benoit’s brain tissue revealed he did in fact suffer from severe chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE),19 and had brain damage in all four lobes of the brain and brain stem"

Doesn’t sound like the roids were his main problem..

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dramatic article, but that's all it is.

I am very aware of the problems with fighter safety and drugs etc. And ironically that inherent danger that the fighters put themselves in is what draws me even more to the sport.

They chose what they do, they love what they do, and I sure as hell won’t stop watching my favorite sport because they might be in danger when they are older.

Hell let’s boycott chemical plants because people might inhale shit, brokering firms because stock brokers get heart attacks, Racing because people crash… etc etc etc you get my point.

MMA is awesome, that’s all there is!

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Thank you

These guys know what they’re getting into. If you want to be an intellectual, participating in any sport that requires getting your head bashed in is probably not a good idea.
This is what they love to do. If the author doesn’t like it, fine, be a pussy and stop watching sports. I hope you feel better about yourself. You know in football, when a dude goes flying head first at another guy in the air, and the helmets collide and one guy looks like he’s dead? Yeah, they didn’t decide to smash into each other because I’m a sadist, they did it because that’s the fucking sport they love. Get this pretentious bullshit off this site.

by Danny Glover on Sep 27, 2010 10:31 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

willful blindness

a legal term that holds all parties liable under the eyes of prosectution.

We know there is a problem. Maybe you don’t care Free or Kev – but leave it at that.
There IS a problem. It needs to be addressed. Just because either of you don’t think it “matters” and fighters put themselves throughout

Can the MMA community do a better job at protecting fighters and finding a way to create maximum output on the quality of their lives when the do eventually retire. hell ya.

To say that “this is their own choice and fault = live with the consequences” is pure laziness.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

The retirement point is a good one. If fighters are able to get together, get some stuff done for their well-being when they are done fighting, the promotions will be forced to take their health more seriously when they are still working. If Dana knows they will have to be responsible for medical issues down the road, he is going to be more diligent about protecting those injuries from happening from the onset.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

To say that "this is their own choice and fault = live with the consequences" is pure laziness.

I disagree to an extent. While I do believe that there is shared risk, to some small extent, why does the burden of change fall upon someone other than the fighters? It is well-documented that many MMA fighters are very well educated men and do not always come from the “bad side of town”. Why are these fighters not speaking from the rafters to educate the general fan of the risks? Why is Steve Young (owner of multiple concussions on top of his Juris Doctorate from BYU) not shouting from the rafters about these dangers? Where are Brett and Eric Lindross in this discussion?

The athletes themselves are more accoutable on this issue than anyone else, and need to be the ones who lead the charge. Whether it is through collective bargaining, boycotting the sport (yeah right) or something else, until the athletes lead the charge, there is very little the casual, even rabid, fan can do other than boycott the sport, and it is not lazy to believe differently. It is reality.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great writeup Ulf. I agree.

The fighters themselves should be the ones speaking out.

BZ, you like to take the moral high ground without reasoning. What are you really saying? Do you have constructive ideas on how to fix the sport? What is the point in once again pointing out that there is a problem (which I clearly agreed on and stated) and calling us fans lazy?

Are you doing something about it except for buying PPV’s and giving MMA money? If not, then you are just as “lazy” as I am.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

The

athletes
themselves are more accoutable on this issue than anyone else

When they athletes are surrounding by people who draw a living out of services offered to them, whether doctor,trainer or shoe lace tyer that onus is on everyone to ensure the health of the person paying them remains intact. The athletes are accountable thats a given – a strong one. But their duty is to focus on excelling at what they do – be the best because without it everyone goes down. If Brad Pitt made crap movies than his make up girl, stunt double etc etc etc goes out of business… the ripple effect exists in a fighters world also.

The Lindros brothers should be discussed. They were both told by medical officials that they were taking risks not worth their pay due to their concussive nature – that and the insurance companies would no longer take them on.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry guys hard for me to post properly... that top line is Ulfs quoted.

@Free
I do take the moral high ground, bcause thats who I am. I do offer suggestions and I do participate in forums that improve the health benefits that athletes get at the local stage albeit in minor hockey and rugby… which isn’t MMA. But if given the right opportunity I would donate time and money to be a part of positive change in MMA. I just think you and those like you (right now) who so quickly wash your hands with it and say more or less “it’s their own fault – let them deal with it” is bogus. Especially when you admittedly enjoy their product/efforts to entertain you.

You guys just don’t get what I mean. No one fan can change anything – myself included. But if an awakening occured and we all demaned in one voice that we want the fighters to be offered better rules, better environments and health benefits to deal with future problems they will likely incur – than it will happen. Alone, I can do nothing, or at least on the scale that would matter.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alone, I can do nothing, or at least on the scale that would matter.

I think THAT is as lazy a statement as you could possibly make. That sounds like the person who doesn’t go voting because “one vote won’t change anything”, we would all have to agree to vote.

You are doing as little as I am doing, at least I am not taking the moral high ground that is unsupported by my actions. But I respect you helping out minor hockey and rugby, that’s definitely a positive thing to be part of.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's not lazy... when I am willing. Have I done anything? No I never thought about before...

will I look into it. Surely.

Don’t take what I say out of context. I was admitting that I am a very small piece of the overall puzzle. Am I willing to go at it? of course.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe we can appeal to Jesse and Tom to start some kind of Mania MMA support club. I'd be willing to donate some time/research.

Then years from now it could flourish into something big, including Mania’s own MMA promotion and fighter support groups/forums/meetings etc.

Just a dream…

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

the idealogy is cool.. And what Im trying to get out there.

it’s just for fun of enjoying the sport and being a good intelligent person.
not much else eh?

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

risks not worth their pay

Summed up my argument perfectly. They reached a point where long-term damage risk outweighed the monetary gain the would receive. This is the nature of our business first society and will always be the number one factor in the discussion. Again, I believe that fighters should be penalized for “late hits”, but anything further than this belongs in the fighters court. Legislating for the sake of legislating will only hurt the sport, or drive it overseas. See the US Manufacturing Sector Post 1975.

The service providers are no different than the vendor who decided to have Netscape as a client, or Enron as a provider, or Pharmor as a buyer. It is the risk of business. If you do not hedge your risk, you can lose. I don’t see how this impacts the argument. The fighters should not be concerned about the ancillary businesses for which they provide income, nor should they go into this profession thinking how many ancillary businesses that they can employ. The invisible hands will come and go as the economy dictates.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

and you dont' see a call for change in those other areas either?

Capitalism in MMA. I guess it exists. But is it working globally now? Fuck no.

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 27, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Considering that legislation is what caused the problems you are talking about,

it only reinforces my argument that less legislation is better. Let Adam Smith’s invisible hands dictate what will happen. Do not leave this in the hands of bureaucrats, they will only F it up. Look at AIG or BOA. They should be gone, but for some reason (legislation) they are not.

BTW, did you know that US corporations can now contribute freely to any political candidate in the US? The Supreme Court just ruled a few months ago that monetary political donation limits would be limiting free speech. Scary shit thinking about how much money Exxon is throwing around these days.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW, did you know that US corporations can now contribute freely to any political candidate in the US? The Supreme Court just ruled a few months ago that monetary political donation limits would be limiting free speech. Scary shit thinking about how much money Exxon is throwing around these days.

I did not hear about this. That is the scariest thing I have read in a long, long time. If we thought we had puppets before. Jesus.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/01/supreme-court-lifts-curbs-on-corporate-political-donations.html

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally crazy!

And bullshit! I read about that a while back and was floored. I still can’t believe it. That is something that has to be changed for sure. That is just bringing more power to “power”. Not a good thing at all

enzo-enormous

by enzo-enormous on Sep 27, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dana an Co.

can just plant their own congressmen in NY and get that puppy signed, sealed and delivered.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

AND NOW YOU KNOW!

Because Knowledge is Power!!!

One who sleeps with an itchy a** hole, awakes to smelly fingers
-Chinese Proverb

by butsecks on Sep 27, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good read

and I am totally with heelhook on the punhes after a knockout, its too brutal for me. Like Mir on Cro Cop just there.

by theworldismine on Sep 27, 2010 10:26 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Russow’s brutal punch on Todd Duffee after he was KO’d should have got him suspended for 6 months at least.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol

Vitor is In. Vitor will Win.

Now thats a fockin Poem.

by Bigger Zino on Sep 28, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Things Need To Change

I’m a huge MMA fan too and I also appreciate the technical aspect of the sport and I won’t stop watching it. But I do believe there are things they can do to make the sport, safer, more entertaining, and less dangerous for the fighters. Its no wonder men usually live longer than women. Women don’t usually play contact sports and us as humans if we get hit in the 3-4 times in our lifespan the odds that we one might suffer from CTE or ALS in the future is pretty sad.

I think they should fine fighters who obviously punch an unconscious fighter, maybe even the fighters that hold a submission for too long like Babalu.

Better drug testing thats up to international standards for even catching pain killers, and masking drugs.

Better pay and benefits for all fighters even during training. Dana sometimes takes that shit too far about “if you really want to be a fighter, then fight”, what he sees is $$$$$.

Perhaps even neurological test on fighters after every fight. Its sad when you see a fighter kill people then kill himself I’ll all for stopping people dying needlessly.

But I’m still watching MMA.

And also Rev MMA sucks in Toronto.

Somebody shit on the coats!

by OptimusInteger on Sep 27, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Fighters need good insurance

Them paying everything out of pocket off an injury in training is garbage. That would be a huge step in the right direction IMO.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

That's something that really needs more attention

Cause if you stop and take a look at it these guys are on the job for 3-6 months sometimes. The second they sign on the dotted line to fight whoever it’s their job to train and get in shape and be ready for the fight. So they spend 3 months getting ready and they’re only covered for 15-25 minutes during the fight? That’s horrendous.

"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger

Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"

- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors

by O damn he got caught on Sep 27, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

True.

Only the elite fighters get the special treatment by Dana (“We got Shogun to the best doctor in the country, he is recovering fine now.”) If Chris Lytle gets injured he will not get that treatment and have to pay all his bills himself.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed with the improvement aspects.

Better drug testing, better pay, benefits and neurological tests all sound like things that could be implemented in the future to improve fighter safety.

The problem is that those thing would need to be implemented across the board, and smaller promotions simply wouldn’t have the resources to do those rigorously enough.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post, Free.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Sep 27, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Union?

Great Article, very interesting read with perspective.

Recd

-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)

by *Californication* on Sep 27, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

so it can get oursourced to Japan/China/any other country where our laws do not apply?

MMA is not the NFL where the games need to be played in the locations of the home team. MMA events can, and are, located all over the world. A good satelite dish is all that is required.

If you don’t belive Zuffa would start holding EVERY card in Mexico to avoid a union, I think you estimate the resolve of DW.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha good point... hadn't thought about that at all.

The PPV/Advertising money is where the cash in, the arena earnings don’t make them a lot of profit anyways.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Didnt even consider that!
If you don’t belive Zuffa would start holding EVERY card in Mexico to avoid a union, I think you estimate the resolve of DW.

Hell I may even be UNDERestimating him (;

-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)

by *Californication* on Sep 27, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

thx for the correction, glad even in f'ing up, you can understand where I was going.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 27, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jake Lamotta, 89 years old, sharp as a tack. Nobody took more punishment than him. That being said, Crop Cop, done, Wanderlei Silva, done, Chuck, done, You only have two brutal ko’s to spare. After the second brutal ko you can be ko’d with a feather. Cro Cop was ko’d by Randleman first, then Gonzaga, Wanderlei was ko’d by Cro Cop, then Hendo, Chuck ko’d by Rampage then Rashad, you can apply this formula to any fighter that is a “shell of himself” and it works. After the second brutal ko they are done!

by Mighty Pete on Sep 27, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Overeem ain’t done. Not by a long shot.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great beard

I wouldn’t argue with someone calling Overeem the “Jake Lamotta of MMA”

by Mighty Pete on Sep 27, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha

Umm, I’m a bit confused, was that a typo or — who has a beard now?

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let me be perfectly clear!!

Beard, Chin, Granite Jaw, whetever you prefer. Overeem’s got a good one. Rampage too. Nelson, Mitrione, gotta put Lesnar up there now. Notice all heavys.

by Mighty Pete on Sep 27, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, I get you. Thanks.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im sorry

but there’s a lot more than just ‘having your button pushed too many times’. I think alot of it is down to (especially the fighters you mentioned) have been caught up talent wise. Also, especially in the HW division, having to fight guys that are 25 pounds heavier than you.

"Big guys, small gloves...somebody's gonna fall..." (Gabriel Gonzaga)

by Kenwoo on Sep 27, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dangerous sport, for sure

As is the case with with just about every sport. You can hurt yourself in all walks. While articles like this may help to spark discussion that will further educate all of us (commissions, fighters, promoters, fans) about the realities, I think most are a bit cold when it comes to this kind of thing. Not surprising considering my country has been at war for 9 years and people around me aren’t even interested in discussing the latest market bombing, kidnapping, smart bomb gone bad- shit, google the word “bomb” and look at the damn news results. Yet, the top stories are always going to be glitz, glamor, and news on which crank the hottest celeb is riding this week. People are going to continue to be distracted with shininess and fancy lights, and forget to ask the question “what the hell happened to Mark Munoz?”. The problems you address here speaks to a larger scale issue.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 10:52 AM EDT reply actions  

You dont like seeing Knocked out fighters get nailed even more?

Whats wrong with you?!
Thats one of the best parts!
Go watch figure skating or something…

by taratada on Sep 27, 2010 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

So you're telling me

The Tapout kids will be Gary Busey by the time they’re seventeen. Awesome.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

Fan of: Cole Miller, Dentist Neer, Alan Belcher, Bones Jones, Frank Mir

by Pootwich on Sep 27, 2010 11:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Brutal ko's

If Cro Cop dropped to light heavy (he walks around 25lbs lighter than what Rampage walks around at) after Gonzaga man handled him he would be the champ right now. Foolish pride.

by Mighty Pete on Sep 27, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

after his last fight...

I dont understand how can you event expect him to win a fight, at any weight class.
I mean… he didn’t even attack. And his Chin is not the same. Do you think he would actually go out cold if he was hit with that during his pride days? Not a chance. Kind of like chuck Liddel. In pride Rampage nailed him like 25 times on the chin with everything he had and even then chuck didnt even go down. But now he gets tapped on the chin by franklin and its lights out.

by taratada on Sep 27, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

He would be the champ now? Are you kidding? That’s crazy talk.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

insane talk forsure.

He would have no chance against the quick powerful wrestlers and all around top fighters at LHW.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Correction

Ok, “champ right now” is a poor choice of words. But, when Cro Cop came over Chuck was champ at LH I think Cro Cop would have beat him worse than Rampage did. And Cro Cop would have beat Rampage as well. BACK THEN!!

by Mighty Pete on Sep 27, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denial

Denial = what I think – the facts
I guess I know these facts (cte and als) and keep watching. Interestingly, I have these discussions about MMA with people and inevitably this conversation comes up. Typically I listen for a while and ask them the following question: What two sports have the most catastrophic head traumas and spinal injuries? Well, according to my friends at the hospitals, it is cheerleading and gymnastics. I cant prove these points, but I am sure someone else can.
This article is quite sobering – but for what. It is like smoking. Not all people who smoke will get lung cancer, but the true evidence is there. People keep smoking and point to those who have made it thru life with few or no problems while continuing to smoke. Life is like this.
 Ivan’s article is not rock solid, but it does start a discussion. I guess, for myself, it is rather painful or sobering medicine. Will I keep on watching? Probably. Quite possibly these facts might stimulate further discussions that pull me away, slowly, and painfully much like the experience I had when I quit smoking. Who knows… this article is depressing.

The Ultimate Warrior - Jesus Christ

by TapedUpPair on Sep 27, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

There are always two sides of the story

 Very long and somewhat depressing article. I agree with what most of what TapedUpPair said. For one I know pretty much nothing about brain injury and what exact effects concussions do to you later in life. Here is one fact I do know. In a court of law there are two sides of every story, the prosecutions side and the defense. I would love to hear a counter article to this with someone who has in depth knowledge of the subject and knows it inside and out. I’m not saying what the author said is inaccurate but at the same time, since I know nothing about it I have no clue as to the particulars.

The article to me is a little over dramatic and seemed to me attentions seeking, and is kind of stating the obvious, getting hit in the head can damage your brain, duh. The author IMO isn’t looking at the big picture, and TapedUpPair made some very valid points. One would have to do some major research to get some serious data on what causes the worst headtraumass and has the most negative life altering effects. What if it is sports like gymnastics and cheerleading, would docters be out trying to boycott these activities, I doubt it.

MMA fighting has a huge target on it, human cock fighting, etc. I know its a little off topic in a way but its like the long gun registry here in Canada, makes sense to the liberal politicians but to the grunt police officers who deal day in and day out with the issue, completely useless.
I guess my point is MMA is repugnant to most people out there and any negative short or long term consequences will make it to the limelight in dramatic fashion.

The whole suicide argument of this in relation to to head trauma is sort of a gray area, not enough data. Suicide happens all the time, most caused by metal illness, bi-polar etc. I may sound sort of insensitive but I do feel this article is sort of making a mountain out of a mole hill in the big picture. Every contact sport is dangerous, many with fairly frequent deaths, they all have injuries instant and long term. Life is like this, like TapedUpPair said. Smoking kills and often has terrible consequences, do does drinking and drugs. One could write a book on the subject.
Bottom line, this IS a brutal sport. I’m pretty sure the fighters know what is one the line. Do race car fans stop watching there favorite sport because of the occasional death? Even if there is a death in the octagon I won’t stop watching or if some popular fighters kills his girlfriend. Violence is a part of life, nature is cruel. OMG what a rant, this article obviously accomplished its purpose, discussion and getting attention.

"Either way hes probably not Gay but if he is thats one dangerous Fag"-the real ZACK

by nathang on Sep 27, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would like to see more conversation

which includes more statistics which could compare against other physical sports, then compare those all to the general public. That would give us a really good idea as to how much of a problem we have here. For instance, the suicide rates seem rather low in comparison to other industries where there is a high stress factor.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post, Deuce.

People forget that you can’t just compare blooded killers (MMA fighters) to the sheeple in gen-pop. It ain’t apples and oranges, it’s apples and lions.

Comparative statistics using other pro sports as a baseline would be extremely helpful as a starting point. Also, comparative statistics including small businessmen and even middle management types would help to properly illuminate the actual impact the association with fighting brings.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amazing post

Just picture the brain, which has no fixating structure like other organs (e.g. liver or uterus, both held by a couple of ligaments) bouncing back and forth inside the cranium, with some bony edges doing the damage. It wears on you.

In a sense, any type of neurological symptom may appear due to this kind of stress and trauma, with more relevance to the part of the heads that get hit more. Hooks to the side of the head, for an instance, could contribute to the slurred speech, since hitting the side of the brain, which has some of the areas responsible in articulating speech.

The thing is with Alzheimer’s and other degenerative diseases you have an accumulation of proteins that were built with errors. It is a process that happens in people with the right amount of genetical predisposure and exposure to certain environmental risk factors, such as nutrition, smoking, etc. and it happens over the course of several years. Try to picture this added to the sheer trauma and laceration of the brain matter from the blows and shocks against the cranium. Kinda crazy.
I read all your post and I am very interested, I’ll see if I can do some research in the field in college.

I won’t stop watching because of this. But I do agree that the athletic comissions are neglecting the issue. IMO, we, as fans, should try to spread the word on this subject and, with help from the fighters themselves and influential people, try to put pressure to create a better regulation.
Every sport has their risks, and they don’t get riskier than full contact combat sports. But that doesn’t mean we can’t try to protect the fighters in every aspect possible. We as fans should be able to select what we want to view, thus meaning we should be able to buy PPVs and watch events live from the companies we know have a better structure.

"A lot of times, you beat a person who beat a person who can beat you. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense." – Joe Rogan

by RRRenan on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Good post, Renan

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good fan post, I can't believe I read the whole thing.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

fighters fight voluntarily

they fight for the glory, money, fame, etc.

some do it because it’s their passion, some do it out of necessity

but in the end, if they want to give it up and go work in retail or at a desk, that’s their choice.

I’m not saying I don’t care if people are getting hurt, because that sucks..but they do it by choice and I happen to find it entertaining from a technique and even a carnal point of view.

so in summary…I’ll keep watching I think.

:)

by cough on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, but that’s the norm unfortunately. They’re in “kill mode” so I can understand to some extent yet there are still guys who have refrained. Yet of most of the guys who have refrained I’m sure there’s another time when they haven’t, because they’re in that zone. I don’t know if it’s an excuse though.

Henderson could have definitely stopped before punishing Bisping though, for example.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

for sure.

i just thought the gif added to the argument made in the post

they are in kill mode, but the ref should be able to get in there quicker when someone is laid out on the canvas with both arms to the side. i didnt watch the fight, but this gif show how slow the ref was to come to the aid of mirko

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. But maybe it makes it look easier than it is. It’s in slow-mo for one, and the ref has to do what he can not to get in the way as well. I’m not sure, but it happens so fast I just don’t know if the ref deserves any blame. I could be wrong though.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i dunno either lol

who am i to judge

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah, but you’re right. It’s still worth making a judgment. Just because I, for example, am leaning towards not holding Herb Dean accountable doesn’t mean I wouldn’t change my mind, because it’s tough to tell.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s such a tough job, such a thankless job in some respects. And to make a quick judgment like that, keeping in mind the fighter’s safety as well as not suffering the wrath of everyone for stopping the fight too early, would be a difficult thing to do. I suppose.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

difference there though

is that henderson WANTED to hit bisping after he was out, as evidenced by his comments after the fight…in some situations, like newfie said, theyre just in kill mode, and when youre told to fight until the bell or until the ref pulls you off it actually is the right move to keep going until the ref stops you…its that kind of unwritten rule though, that makes me respect gerald harris that much more, no one would have said anything had he thrown 2 or 3 hammerfists before the ref got over to him, but he knew he didnt have to, thats respect

by magicmike on Sep 27, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

henderson WANTED to hit bisping after he was out

That’s the whole point. Wanting to do it offers less justification than simply being in the zone.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree completely

my whole point was that its one thing to keep going because youre just on autopilot, quite another to make a conscious effort to hit someone after recognizing theyre already out…its kinda like cain-big nog, that couldnt really have been stopped, but hendo was different…ive hated him since that fight

by magicmike on Sep 27, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Although I don’t hate him, I still really like Hendo; I did lose a bit of respect though.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

well...

im one of the 16 people out there that actually like michael bisping, so i have more reason to dislike hendo then most after that incident lol

by magicmike on Sep 27, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I like him too.

Although his upcoming fight isn’t much to be excited about let alone being worthy of being a main event.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I like him too.

Although his upcoming fight isn’t much to be excited about let alone being worthy of being a main event.

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

same with Shogun

he stopped hitting Machida and started to celebrate even before the ref jumped in. He knew it was over and didnt see the need to keep hitting Machida for the sake of it

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

This makes everyone feel much better about the Kimbo Slice/James Thompson stoppage eh?

Kidding.

But really. I read this entire article. Very interesting points. Really makes you worry about some of your favorite fighters. At least it did for me. And yes, if you really think about it. Having a guy fight who has taken so much damage; that he needs subtitles is surprising and also kind of ridiculous.

by RyanHobbs on Sep 27, 2010 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe this article would lead some Team Jackson haters to ease off on criticizing the strategies of guys like GSP and Rashad. Maybe, I dunno. :)

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, and zero responses to this excellent point.

People want to have their cake and eat it, too.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Sep 27, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha

Yeah very possible. I know one thing that came to my mind was when GSP spoke about tapping out to Matt Serras strikes. He mentioned how some people saw it as quitting but he explained it as saving himself from injuries and head trauma in the future.

by RyanHobbs on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

didnt mean to post that

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only read like the first 60 comments but i want to know

Has anybody who is actually a fighter or a football player actually posted on here? I played strong safety for 5 years in a run stopping defense, so I’ve been in some head on collisions with people who out way me big time like fullbacks, monster running backs, tight ends, and i’ve smoked receivers coming over the middle when we’re both at top speed. I know the dangers, you cant not hear about it when you watch NFL network 24//7 and spend a lot of time on MMA sites.

I’ve been in lots of street fights if you will too, and train mma, me and my buddies box in my back yard on a regular basis and one day would like to fight for a big time pro MMA organization.

I know the dangers of both of the sports, and don’t want you to not watch me cause you’re worried about my health, I can worry about my own health, I know what I’m getting myself into. So boycotting what I love to do is kind of insulting to my profession and my intelligence. Just sit back and be entertained, i’ll take the risk cause its what I love to do.

Every fighter has a plan until he gets hit

by Trash_Faber on Sep 27, 2010 1:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand your question

Is the question simply “Have any fighters posted here before” or was it something else?

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed!

That’s the mentality we should all take. Mirko Cro Cop doesn’t worry about the chemicals I inhale at my workplace, why should I care if he might be brain-damaged when he retires with a couple million? He’s here for my entertainment and is paid for the risks he takes.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 27, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes.

"NOBODY wants to fight Fedor." - Wanderlei Silva, former Pride MW Champion and GP winner

by freenow82 on Sep 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said

 Ya drink yourself stupid and smoke a pack a day, do your meth etc and let me fight and do what I love.

"Either way hes probably not Gay but if he is thats one dangerous Fag"-the real ZACK

by nathang on Sep 27, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personal Choice isn't a Free Pass for Irresponsibility

It’s not that I particularly care about anyone’s health except myself, my family and my close friends…. I’m not your mommy, so it’s none of my business as long as your choices don’t mess with the people I care about.
I think the issue here is understanding that there’s always going to be repercussions for the decisions you make. If you decide to make your living competing in contact sports, there’s always a chance of injury…. Hell, there’s a good chance I’m gonna get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from spending half of my free time posting on the sites lol…
 
That being said, while most fighters say that they are in the fight game for the love of the competition, there wouldn’t be much of a ‘fight game’ without fans willing to pony up the cash. Cro Cop wasn’t even sure if he was going to fight again, but the UFC made him the offer of a lifetime because they needed a recognized name for a main event fight. It’s basic supply and demand.

We aren’t going to stop using lumber to build houses because some guy gets maimed by a chainsaw in the middle of the woods. Similarly, I’m not going to stop watching MMA or Hockey because the people who chose that sport for a living might get hurt. BUT, as exciting as a big KO or a sick submission is, I don’t want them to get hurt. And we should at least try to make it safer and take precautions so that every one of our heroes don’t wind up catatonic in a wheelchair, staring out a window of some old age home in the middle of nowhere.

by TheUltimateWriter on Sep 27, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

well said dude!

no one cares that i sit at a desk all day and slowly developing arthritis and lower back issues…NO ONE CARES :(

so keep doing what you love

I'm gonna go home, watch DirecTV, drink bud light and ride my Harley Davidson!!

by Newfie3 on Sep 27, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

CBC Docs

The CBC did a couple of mindblowing documentaries on the topic of sports-related head injuries around the time of Chris Benoit’s death. The number of professional athletes who suffer from long term medical issues due to repeated blows to the head is staggering.

Nowadays, it seems like there’s a much greater awareness of these inherent risks, and it’s a chance these athletes are taking when they train and step into the ring/cage. Luckily, the UFC seems to be on the ball when it comes to regular check-ups and CT Scans, and the Athletic Commissions of various states have no problem suspending fighters indefinitely for precautionary reasons.

by TheUltimateWriter on Sep 27, 2010 1:35 PM EDT reply actions  

The Thiago incident is a good example of the system working

Pretty sure they caught that irregularity from a scan that the UFC had him get.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a well written and well thought out post. Much respect goes out to the person who put so much time and effort into writing it. As MMA fans we should all become familiar with the realities of it all because alot of what is said in this is true.

by EvolutionMMA on Sep 27, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

One word....

Wow. Amazing write up, and I have actually been considering the same thing lately. I dont know if I could stop watching MMA all together but seeing the damage and hearing the long term effects makes me feel almost shameful for loving this sport so much. I played semi-pro hockey so I know how horrible concussions can be and dont understand why they let fighters get KO’d so much when if a hockey player received that much damage he would have to retire right away.

Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheColeko

by coleko on Sep 27, 2010 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Concussions are the biggest threat to the MMA we know.

I went through the same consience check a few months ago, i didnt do nearly as much research but everything i read spelled out bad news. Fast forward 10 years and anyone who wants to bring down MMA will have plenty of examples to use as amunition. Imo a lot of the “bigger names” will have slurred speech and other signs of brain damage. Obviously not only a problem in MMA as the NFL is currently changeing how they handle these situations. Remember when kolb came back in the game in week one, everyone said the eagles could get in trouble for that. MMA promotions need to be held accountable in some way also. The problem is that if when a guy like cro-cop gets knocked silly and suspended for 180 days his wallet is the only thing being hurt. I know i always come back to this, but if the fighters had a union they could negotiate into there contracts some sort of pay if they are hurt while performing so that they could heal up with no added pressure or penalty. The biggest and easiest problem to solve is repeat concussions in a short time period and that is the first thing that needs to be addressed in MMA, if Leben takes a pounding and gets a concussion in the 1st, whats stopping a 2nd concussion later in the fight.

It does not get any better then the Mayhem and a bunch of sexy Japanese girls.--- The Voice

by DetroitDrew1980 on Sep 27, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions  

So Trembow is no longer watching any contact sports?

I get that concussions are a problem, but it isn’t specific to MMA or even worse in MMA than any other sports. Hell this whole article uses research on guys in other sports. So he’s basically saying he’s giving up watching any contact sports and it’s all baseball and golf for him from here on out?

Well, enjoy that

by Jason H. on Sep 27, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

No baseball

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gentlemen, we have just been paid a visit by Buzz Killington.

We all know (and have known) what can happen to a fighter physically when participating in ANY form of combat sports. These facts are NOT new, each and every one of you guys know “concussions are bad UMM KAY”. Will you stop enjoying MMA? I won’t. When Brock knocks Cains head into the fourth row, will you A: Cry and lose sleep over the fact that he MIGHT have a concussion and potentially kill his girlfriend. or B: jump for joy and spill your beer on your girlfriends tits. Sure, it’s good to raise awareness, but it’s MMA for Christs sake! Too many more of these Articles and I’m gonna quit coming to MMMania, and join ExtremeKnittingUniverse…

One who sleeps with an itchy a** hole, awakes to smelly fingers
-Chinese Proverb

by butsecks on Sep 27, 2010 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

lol

"THIS IS THE GREATEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS!"
Gus Johnson will never live that down and it should never be forgotten.

by Jackanapes on Sep 27, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Funny shit there gaysex.

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Had to lighten the mood...

especially after reading all 25 of Douche02’s lame posts that have readers crying like a 14 y/o chick watching an after school special.

One who sleeps with an itchy a** hole, awakes to smelly fingers
-Chinese Proverb

by butsecks on Sep 27, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't realize I had that many posts in here

nor did I realize that anyone cared. It is nice to get the recognition gaysex. Thank you!

We fight, get beat, rise and fight again.

by Deuce02 on Sep 27, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post, butsecks.

Frank Mir just took home Cro cop’s chin like he did to Big Nog. I need to stop bitching and judging with my anger and stop raging. Even joe Rogan said Mir is one of the best BJJ HW’s in the workd and Joe knows way more then I do about MMA. All hail guyverbob and Frank Mir, And hopefully Cro cop with win one more time then retire.

by jay. on Sep 27, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jesse

Do you have Trembows contact or something? I would like to get my hands on the articles he found, specially if they are direct from science magazines, for study and research. Thanks.

"A lot of times, you beat a person who beat a person who can beat you. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense." – Joe Rogan

by RRRenan on Sep 27, 2010 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Pointless post really

All that has been posted was already known to most people who watch combat sports/football MMA is always safer then boxing and other sports because you can lose a fight without being punched once via sub but whatever peace brah!

If you dont like drugs then dont do them.....give them to me!

by Khaos_Warrior on Sep 27, 2010 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

What is this guys credentials??

Besides being a blogger?? He made a lot of bold statements undermining the athletic commission as well as the medical profession. His assertions and speculations about specific athletes and that are still living are equally as bold, and any respectful medical professional would never make these claims as traumatic brain injuries (TBI) are not understood well enough to make the conclusions he has made. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been extensive research on the subject, but some of the examples this author uses , although subjecting the argument in his favor, are completely anecdotal. Making claims that TBI has caused specific conditions is absurd, as in most cases these assertions can not be proven until autopsy. While this guy does raise some interesting questions, it certain isn’t going to galvanize the medical profession, government, or any business involved into taking his side against contact sports. He regurgitates some information already understood information about concussions, but only to fuel his argument. This article , at best, ranks with other sensationalized, subjective media found in your local grocery store. And just like Men’s Health, with promises your rock hard six pack is only 2 weeks away, this article needs to be taken with a pretty damn big grain of salt.

by dramaticindeed on Sep 27, 2010 8:42 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

There will always be individuals in the human specie with the warrior gene.

Some of them become soldiers. Of those, many die and many more get seriously handicapped. Throughout History, warriors answered the call and risked their lives.

Not all of them become soldiers though. That very same breed sometimes choose other paths like pro sports. They risk much less in the process and the rewards are sometimes worth the risk.

My hearth goes out first to the men and women of the military. I am not indifferent to what happens to some individuals of the latter group though, I just think we should increase the precautionary measures and accept what they chose to do: get out there and compete.

The only real possession you'll ever have is your character. — Tom Wolfe

by Yan117 on Sep 27, 2010 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

The question is "Will the fighter enjoy the money they get fighting or will they use it only into medical stuff?

"No one wants to be defeated" Michael Jackson on MMA fights
''A man is not finished when he's defeated; he's finished when he quits'' Richard M. Nixon on Fedor's loss

by Eduardo Cruz on Sep 27, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Great read...

The only issue I draw with it is the fact that everything the author has access to I have access to, meaning all fighters and all professional athletes for that matter have access to. In fact I’m willing to bet that professional athletes have more access to and are exposed more to the long term effects and scientific data of concussions. It’s something that is on their minds I’m sure nearly every single day. They are more likely to have their brains scanned in more times in one year than I am in an entire decade.

It’s a serious issue but because of the money involved in professional sports many athletes choose the ostrich approach and put their head in the sand thinking it won’t happen to them. Or if it does they will have made enough to buy the treatment needed to counteract the effects. And if not that they will know that they have made enough money to take care of their families long after they are gone. It’s not just the purse money, it’s endorsements, the business deals, the money being thrown around in professional sports isn’t just enough to set you up for life, it’s generational. You can make enough as a pro athlete to provide for your grandkids kids.

With higher risks comes higher rewards. I work a steady job but I’ll never be a millionaire because I don’t want to put myself out there at the risk of losing everything I have. I want to work for a few decades, put some money away and retire in the desert somewhere like Obi-Wan and live to be 100 or so. If I had the balls I probably would trade in a few decades for a few million dollars but I don’t so I won’t. Fighters are aware, just like the rest of us with a brain and a soul, of what we are getting in to. Nobody is forced to do anything anymore, at least not in this country.

I think the best way to handle this issue is this: Do a shit ton of research on it, short term, long term, minimum head trauma, maximum head trauma. Find some really scrambled egg brains and study them. Find out how, when and why people who are exposed to repeated head injury die. Then put it together in a report that is made for the layman and give it to everyone who decides to compete in violent, athletic competitions. Start when they are young and make them sign the thing every year. Then you won’t be able to say that they didn’t know.

by LowBudgetJeff on Sep 28, 2010 12:18 AM EDT reply actions  

some good ideas.

To get licensed to fight, the fighter must complete a head trauma awareness class that details all the WORST case scenarios that could happen. Then they at least know. Or go fight in Mississippi.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 28, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good read..

But alcohol and cigarettes are legal and millions of people are killing themselves with them.. And by now the health issues regarding those substances are known by everybody..

So.. Luckily we have some choice in what we do.

So.. Luckily we have some choice in what we do.Some people are just natural born fighters and soldiers. And who are those who aren’t, to patronize them?

by lavis on Sep 28, 2010 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't unterstand why he's stopping.

You’re not susceptible to any of these conditions by simply watching mma.(COLDBLOOODED!)

by dr.stu on Sep 28, 2010 4:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Life is a terminal illness :)

I love watching MMA fights, I appreciate the skill, the courage, the dedication and the energy of the fighters. We must admire warriors who go where we would not dare.
I admit I wince and shudder at some of the blows landed and at apparent referee “slowness” in stopping some contests.
I would say there is nothing safe in sport and athletic achievement, whether it be boxing, MMA, football, indeed any contact sport.
We consider the medically proven long term effects of brain injury. The author documents these ably and eruditely. I admire the decision he has come to and appreciate the angst endured in coming to his decision. However combat will continue – it is part of the human condition, particularly in males, to prove oneself and prevail against adversity, to be some one, to survive, to win.
We are looking at 500,000 years of survival, we are looking at what makes our species function and act, in the most basic sense, one on one. We are considering what makes up that wisdom called manhood.
MMA will continue, glory is fleeting, the cost in the long term can be a high one. I think it is a basic human need/trait to fight/struggle to win/survive. I’m getting philosophical, more so as I get older.
I’ve done many things in life that have likely damaged my brain, my body is semi-wrecked from rugby, football and (if you believe the alarmists) scuba diving. My knees are 20 years older than me according to an Orthopaedic surgeon and I walk with pain and difficulty. So I started cycling – freedom! I was transformed from a guy who managed a 50 painful yards to someone who could cycle for 10 miles or more.
Then the payback – a crash – a fractured rib and a poisoned leg that has taken 2 repeat courses of powerful antibiotics to cure. I cannot sleep at night at present due to the pain in my chest.
I cannot wait to start cycling again once healed, that’s my choice, that’s where I am going. Madness? I could crash again or get mown down by a lorry from the quarry up the road. It is my choice. Small beer compared with what I used to do and the risks involved.
Live life, live it well, be all you can be. You are not on this earth forever and you are not irreplaceable. If you want to fight then do so in a way acceptable to society in general, follow the rules – but remember nothing is safe, nothing is guaranteed without hazard, life is a terminal illness with death as the outcome. Enjoy it! Be aware and be your self.
Geoff

by Geoffrey Francis Carlin on Sep 28, 2010 7:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Welcome to Mania.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Sep 29, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here here, well said lad

"Either way, he's probably not Gay, but if he is, thats one dangerous Fag"-the real ZACK

by nathang on Sep 29, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Life is dangerous

If you stop watching MMA because of the risk of brain trauma, there are a lot of other things you should stop doing. Stop eating unhealthy, stop drinking alcohol, stop doing all things that people do to enjoy life.

by Zombi on Oct 3, 2010 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

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