UFC 118: Why was Randy Couture so fired up after steamrolling James Toney in Boston?
by Jesse Holland on Aug 31, 2010 1:54 PM EDT
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Props: 790 The Ticket (via SportsRadioInterviews)
Quoteworthy:
"Well you never really know what’s going to happen in a fight. I certainly had to take James seriously and I felt like I had a great chance if I took him to the ground that he wasn’t going to be able to learn enough to survive there and it turned out that was an accurate assessment. That made the night pretty easy for me ... I have never had allusions of being a world class boxer. As long as I’ve been wrestling, James has been boxing. I think it would be silly for me to think that I’m gonna go in and do well against a world champion boxer and I think it was silly for James to think that he was going to step in and do well in mixed martial arts. I think given time, he can be an effective mixed martial artist but he’s got a lot of things to learn."
UFC Hall-of-Famer Randy Couture gives fans a little perspective on his post-fight celebration following his easy submission win over fish-out-of-water James Toney at UFC 118 in Boston. "The Natural" was pegged with the task of representing MMA in a match billed as "UFC vs. Boxing" but may not have such an easy time in his next bout -- if and when the part-time Hollywood action hero returns to the cage. Any fantasy matchmakers want to pick his next opponent?
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"I think given time, he can be an effective mixed martial artist "
Yeah, time’s not really on his side is it randy?? Judging by his performance on saturday he’d need at least 20 years solid ground training to bring him up to scratch.
Randy is being a loyal employee and towing the company line by implying that this match was anything but a farce of the highest order.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I truely believe it was the biggest mis-match in UFC history!
And there were some monumental mis-matches early doors when Gracie was steam rollering everyone, but saturdays debarcal truely takes the biscuit. I think even Pride would have thought twice about sanctioning that bout!
No Pride had fighters with zero experience in MMA fight some the best fighters
Hell SF has Batista fighting on their card, a body builder turned to WWE now fighting in MMA?! C’mon thats much worse than a pro boxer.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Puck, no one mentioned SF. UFC is a better org and needs to be held to a higher standard.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Exactly OJR
I thought the days of these one dimensional, one discipline guys entering the octagon died out about 1996. Embarassing that was deemed co-main event worthy for the premier MMA org on the planet.
I laughed
and laughed and laughed. There were people at my house who though JT had a good chance. All I kept saying, was “really?” You really think Randy is going to try to trade with him? Really? Now that my friends is drinking the cool aid. Circus act of the finest order. I was only kinda ok with it because there were several other good fights, and they had the prelims broadcast. Otherwise, I would have boycotted.
Not only does BJ Penn quit on his stool versus guys that are bigger than him...He gets tooled by guys that are SMALLER than him. BJ should just stick to jumping out of pools, not fighting. I shoulda listened to Ulf.
OK CC and Fedor bothafter 15+ fight fought a guy with no MMA experience only pro japan wrestling
Named Yuji Nagata who has all time 0-2 record. By far that tops this.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Was Yuji fat and past his prime?
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
yeah Puck we all know Pride loved their celebrity freak show matches
But this is 2010 and the UFC is supposed to be the number one org on the planet, and putting on ridiculously one sided beatdowns like that do the sport no good.
He was a Batista at best LOl a pro japan wrestler same as WWE LOL
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I don't think you could even call that a fight
All I kept thinking about was “this guy could be representing the Joe’s here”. Remember when Randy did that show and tapped a guy like 12 times in 3 minutes. Same thing coulda happened here.
Not only does BJ Penn quit on his stool versus guys that are bigger than him...He gets tooled by guys that are SMALLER than him. BJ should just stick to jumping out of pools, not fighting. I shoulda listened to Ulf.
I think Batista might beat Toney in a MMA fight…
Becasue he’s big? You haven’t seen him fight, just becasue he a WWE wrestler doesn’t mean he knows how to takedown somone.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
you dont need to be a wrestling prodigy to take that idiot down… Randy barely touched him and he fell…that wasn’t some genius double leg randy landed
No that was actually a real wrestling move, It may of looked easy but there was actual technique used.
Try again bobncc99
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Yeah amateur wrestler, Batista isn't even that. try again.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Yeah like grab his ankle and pull his leg out from under him.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Yeah like grab his ankle and pull his leg out from under him
LOL Yeah thats all it was, I guess you didn’t see him use use his shoulder against the knee either Dice? It was a simple as that LOL Ok you guys me laugh, you don’t even know what technique was used and are trying to argue LOL
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Yeah he just grabbed the foot and Toney fell LOL
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
That is excatly what happened… Randy said himself anyone should have been able to step out of that….you know better then Randy I suppose though right?
it was an acutal move with real technique applied
we just rarely (never) see it because it is easy to defend.
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That is excatly what happened… Randy said himself anyone should have been able to step out of that….you know better then Randy I suppose though right?
Stop lying he didn’t say anyone, he said most MMA fighters with ground experience LOL good try though keep making sh^t up maybe Dice will believe you LOL
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
randy's takedown was extremely slow.
and he came in from half across the world, anyone with any kind of footwork or even reaction would have moved out of the way. Randy almost dove in face first to the mat. Bottom line is in a real fight he would have gotten his head kicked off his shoulders.
your mother !
Pretty much. There was very little technique needed. There was zero attempt at a sprawl, no attempt to move out of the way, he just sat there and got dumped on his ass.
As Randy said, “Any amateur wrestler could’ve pulled that off”. You’re trying to hard, again.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Yeah pretty much Puck
Your over analysing and giving Randy way too much credit. Couture said himself how easy it is to avoid that Td.
No he didn't Attakdog
thats false. Randy stated it was a move he hasn’t used in a long time becasue most wrestlers that are good can see it coming and slip out of it, he didn’t 100% plan to that until he seen Toney wearing the boots were he would have a better grip than bare feet.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Translation: Yes, it was a real move. One that I never use because anyone with a basic sense of TD defense will defend it. Toney was clearly out of his league so I used something extremely elementary on him.
Now let’s all hail Randy for beating MMA master Toney.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Your over analysing again Puck
Barefoot, boots, galloshes, it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of differnce. Any man off the street could have taken Toney down blindfolded.
Toney tried to punch Randy's back for Christ sakes Puck
He has boxed for so long his ONLY reaction to Randy getting down on his hands and knees and shuffling forward was to throw a PUNCH, but it wasn’t an elementary move by Randy or inexperience by Toney to get caught in it….OK.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
Barefoot, boots, galloshes, it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of differnce. Any man off the street could have taken Toney down blindfolded.
LOL yeah, Randy is jsut like any other guy on the street, he may have made it look easy but don’t talk BS, no other guy on a street can grapple on the ground like Randy either. Please stop making sh^t up.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
We are not arguing that Randy has great wreslting..he is an awesome wrestler ..but he hardly had to reach into his bag of tricks to get Toney on his fat ass….
bobncc98, your missing the point.
We are not arguing that Randy has great wreslting..he is an awesome wrestler ..but he hardly had to reach into his bag of tricks to get Toney on his fat ass…
He said he used it because he knew it would be very difficult for Toney to strike him while he’s coming in so low. It wasn’t merely a simple trick, it was a very effective takedown for a guy who’s only discipline is boxing. The right tool for the job.
Randy knew he was in a lose-lose situation fighting Toney. Right? If he lost, he’d get blasted. If he won, he’d get blasted (like some are doing on here). My hat is off to Randy for doing it anyway.
by MMACrossfire on Aug 31, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No he's not.... missing the pt
That shot was perfect,,, Lots of wrestlers have a difficult time shooting a low single that perfectly with great timing n’ awareness,,, a 1 yr newbie in yr gym might’ve ‘F*cked that up against a guy like Toney… or not even the confidence to try it….Toney’s a retard if that’s what u mean…. but it was a quality executed move that many newbies would f*ckup. and take a sprawl n pounding to the ear..
It's kind of like saying all that boxer did was jab, I could of moved away from that jab you couyd see it coming from a mile and moved out the way....LOL
You made me laugh but STFU no one believes you. It’s like those guys that yell at the QB after he dodged three D-lineman and threw the ball complete, “I could of made that pass” LOL thats how stupid you guys are sounding.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Please stop reaching for the stars to try to make your argument sound reasonable.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Please stop reaching for the stars to try to make your argument sound reasonable.
Please read before you reply Dice, thank you.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I know you are but...LOL
See how stupid that looks?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
No that doesn't go with what I said
When you make ignorant name calling remarks. I’ll reply with ignorant child like remarks.
So roll the Dice again LOL
But honestly do you even know what your argueing Dice? Randy is a great grappler one of the best in the business he makes great MMA grapllers look bad, and of coarse he’s going to make a non grappler horrible but that doesn’t mean it would be easy for you to bring Toney down or Batista becasue Randy can neither of you know how to perform that move. Saying it was is easy but ignorant Randy was training on that move from the start of his camp. He stated a good good grappler should be able to get out of it and a move that could easily work on you or Batista as well.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
ANYONE in the world could have pulled that TD off.
that is the argument.
PUCK, you don’t think Batista could have gotten Toney down? I could have done it for fuck sakes.
Noons does not have power in his hands. Maybe his knees but his hands do not have KO power. they’re good enough to cut up and swell up gurgel’s face, but he won’t be ko’ing gurgel tonight.-STAK
You're better than Batista so Puck's point still stands
Seriously Toney’s TDD was non-existent and I wouldn’t be surprised if Randy used that ankle takedown just to prove how awful Toney’s TDD was, though equally it did negate Toney’s boxing as he couldn’t counterpunch that attempt. As for Batista I have no faith in his MMA skills as he has no combat sport experience other than supposedly training at Cesar Gracie’s so I wouldn’t bet on him taking down anyone, even an out of shape James Toney. It’s a moot point until he fights anyway because unless you train at Gracie’s then we can only speculate on Batista’s skills.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
Are you not sick of everyone with sense has been kicking your ass up and down the page? I would bet a lot of money I could have taken Toney down Puck. Honestly, I don't think I'm a badass, but I do train MMA, and that was fucking ridiculous.
I’ve NEVER seen someone give up a TD that easy. Obviously, Couture could take me down, and obviously he’s one of the best MMA wrestlers of all time. That’s not the argument(although since you were getting owned through this whole page you tried to twist it). The argument was that it wasn’t an impressive TD and that Toney is not difficult to TD. You can keep trying to argue that, but you’re wrong.
And I would never seriously say, “I know you are but…LOL”, I just wanted you to see how utterly stupid and pathetic it looks. You used it improperly, and so did I.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
We can all agree that Toney's TDD is non-existent
However for all we know Batista doesn’t have any takedowns in his arsenal either. It’s actually quite silly that so many people are arguing over whether a pro wrestler can take down a boxer in a fight that won’t ever happen, does anyone really care?
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
Are you not sick of everyone with sense has been kicking your ass up and down the page? I would bet a lot of money I could have taken Toney down Puck. Honestly, I don’t think I’m a badass, but I do train MMA, and that was fucking ridiculous.
You son’t know what move Randy used, let alone how to pull it off. Randy himself worked on that move from Day one and here you are comparing and easy takedown by Randy to an easy takedown by uou LMFA. C’mon grow a brain that is total BS and anyone knows that. Randy makes GG look like an amatuer grappler for F sakes but of coarse you can say it, hell Pretty Boy can say the same?? That’s 110 BS you donb’t even know what Randy did let alon how to do it. But if it makes you fell better you can believe it. And that would be ass wise as saying you could kick Randy’s ass in a boxing match exactly how Toney would LOL.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Sorry for the spelling mistakes
I had a couple or three schooners after work brrrrP.
son’t = don’t
uou – you
donb’t = don’t
ass – as
fell = feel
if you care = your losing the arguement
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
And I would never seriously say, "I know you are but…LOL", I just wanted you to see how utterly stupid and pathetic it looks. You used it improperly, and so did I.
If your read what I responded too you would realize thats exactly what I did.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
PUCK HEAD 's Comment IS ON THE MONEY $$
Im a parttime wrestling coach and it can take wrestlers yrs to shoot a low single like that…. I’v had really skilled state level caliber kids that couldn’t shoot a low single…. so it’s not an easy thing to do. I admit some kids r natural at it…. but very few.
I also have to agree with Puck, some of you guys are overexaggerating how poor that shot was
It was a nice single, and Randy pulls James’s foot toward him and pushes the shin back with his right shoulder. It wasn’t slow either, this GIF is slowed down but you can still see there is some speed to it.
"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger
Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"
- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors
by O damn he got caught on Sep 1, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Great vid that shows him grabbing the back of the foot(ankle)
pulling in and diveing at the knee, a sprawl will not work, toney should of turned sideways or even right around and pulled his foot out Randy’s grip but he was stunned for a second and thats all it takes
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
He put weight on the knee as well as what you statedDice
It’s a real wrestling move, but against top wrestlers rarely works wich is why you never see it. But I guess you feel better making sound so simple to defend don’t you Dice?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
If Randy says it's simple to defend, I believe it's simple to defend. It doesn't make me feel one way or the other.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
If Randy says it’s simple to defend, I believe it’s simple to defend. It doesn’t make me feel one way or the other.
Only for someone with grappling experience, and Toney has none.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
That's EXACTLY the point though. Anyone with BASIC grappling experience should be able to do better than that. Isn't that what this is about? What's your point?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Batista doesn't have close to Randy's ground grappling
Thats 100% ignorance to compare Batista to Randy, or becasue Randy can anyone can LOL.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Never said he did… again you sound stupid… I said he was strong enough to get him down..he could bull rush him and tackle his ass… toney aint stopping it unless he knocks him out on the way in…
Were did state this?
Strength had nothing to do with Randy’s takedown it was technique a strength takedown would require Batista taking shots.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
You haven't even seen Batista fight
How can you make assumptions like that? it reminds me of that polish strong man when everyone thought becaseu he was strong would kill Sylvia and even UFC HW’s? Size doesn’t mean sh^t bobncc98.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
It absolutely does when the skillsets are even, and as far as grappling goes, they're even or Batista is better.
Size ALWAYS matters.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
No one's claiming he does. What we're saying is, Randy put Toney on his ass when he shot from 10 feet away. Toney didn't even have the where-with-all to step back.
It’s not hard to see that anyone with a basic knowledge of grappling can sit Toney down.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
I agree with that, I don't agree anyone can becasue Randy did
Including Batista.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
This is what you stated about Batista taking down Toney.
I’m sure he can take Toney down..thats all im saying
by bobncc98 on Aug 31, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
LOL Just read the above statements and see who's losing face LOL
Do you want me to copy and paste?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I agree with Puck. Batista with no grappling experience isn’t going to be able to take someone down just because of strenth alone. Without technique he would end up getting blasted up close before he found a TD that worked.
We never said he could take just anyone down.. Just that he would have a chance to take Toney down..
Now your saying that
The fact is Randy is one of the best grapplers in the world him making it look easy doesn’t mean it will be easy for anyone else. I can sit here and say I could too, hell i wrestled for five years and won 20 tournaments and provincials once. But I’m not that ignorant.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Batista has no wrestling background aside from pro wrestling
And from what I understand most of his MMA training has been concentrated on striking. The fact is Batista is about the same age as Toney minus any pro combat experience in ANY sport. Coming into MMA he’d be greener than Toney. Batista’s also been training Jits from what I understand, so it’s not like he’s even concentrated on wrestling in the first place.
Not to mention he has 0 pro fights, no ones ever seen this guy fight, strike, shoot, jits, ANYTHING. For all anyone here knows his wrestling is absolutley terrible. So I don’t see how just by looking at his physique anyone thinks he could just walk up to James Toney and take him down.
No I don’t buy him walking up to Toney and just slamming him down on strength alone, no I don’t buy him being able to skillfully shoot a double or single and put Toney down instantly being as he has no wrestling experience whatsoever and no I don’t agree that Batista is even in the same league as James Toney regarding tested legitimate combat skills.
"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger
Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"
- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors
by O damn he got caught on Sep 1, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
And props to Randy
I said he’d do it in 2 mins, no problems and that’s what he did. Handled every interview professionally, made it perfectly clear that this fight had no title implications and didn’t really do much for him carreer wise and that it was just a fun fight he wanted to do.
The guy’s a legend, he’s 47, has NOTHING to prove to anyone and he can fight whoever the fuck he wants at this point in his carreer.
Where’s all the “James Toney has a chance KO him.” garbage now?
"Long shall we remember
He who walked the road of danger
Master of revenge
Death's no stranger
Blood and death lived on his sword
The god of war his only lord
Into the depths of hell
Go all he fell"
- Manowar hymn of the immortal warriors
by O damn he got caught on Sep 1, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
O damn, none of what I have said is meant as a slight to Randy. You're absolutely correct that he came in and did his job. He doesn't have anything left to prove, and he did it with class.
All I’m saying is that Toney’s TD defense was absolute garbage. He didn’t attempt to move, he didn’t even swing on Randy’s way in. You’re right, the shot wasn’t garbage, but it wasn’t an extremely quick shot set-up by strikes. It was fairly easy to see coming. Again, that’s not to take away from Randy. He knew what it would take to beat him, and he did just that.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
yeah it's easy to defend in MMA
IF ur a skilled MMA fighter….. then u know to wizard sprawl n hammer fitst or look to punish him with submission. However the low single leg takedown against another wrestler in a Wrestling Match is not easy to defend…. it can take yrs to perfect the offense, but in MMA with Bj guys n other wrestlers taught to defend it with MMA rules… it is not a good move to use,
Exactly. There are a number of "real moves" that are not generally practical when fighting anyone with an elementary understanding of what they're doing, this was one of them.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
no ur wrong on this one diceman
Out of 20 potential wrestlers in high school I see 1 0r 2 kids that can add a good low single to their arsenal…. I’ve been involved with wrestling for 15 yrs…. I myself didn’t use a low single until my 4th yr of coaching…. never used it in college… but did use it afterwards when I competed in freestyle (Im old now) Puck knows what he’s saying.
You guys are all smoking crack… The way Randy took him down was never part of this… The way Toney attempted to defend it was.. He has zero grappling game … Just like a bigger,stronger,faster batista….if two dumb gorillas attack eachother the stronger one is always going to win
PUt it this way bobnc98
I can teach anyone to defend a specific seris of wrestling moves in a week… ‘spawling on a double n single is among the most basic.. sincerely believe Toney had a good sprawl…. James . did not see that coming, and neither did anyone in his camp….. u put Batista against Toney…. in 6mths I betcha…. Batista does not take Toney down….PUCK HEAD IS RIGHT…. Toney was taught to defend single legs…. BUT NOT ’’’ LOW SINGLE"""’ Couture made the win easy…. IF Couture shot a double…. I bet he would’ve had to work hard for it for it against the cage…
Welllll... I made a point....
LOL… hmmmm… on second thought…. why do I give Toney so much credit?….. he is a boxer…. with sh*t expeience….I was really surprised by his conditioning…. he got out muscled…n out experienced… not out conditioned in the 1st rnd. .. Toney talked to much shit…. Dana would never let a boxer tarnish MMA or the UFC by altering the rules…. but as a purist of ‘Fighting’ I’d like to know where boxing ends n MMA begins… if a ref stood them up after 30 seconds on the ground (THEY DO THAT IN OLMPIC WRESTLING) (only quicker) … does that show true MMA skils?… or does that take away from wrestlers n BJ guys?,,, IMMA is a whole ‘;nother sport… remember how Silva would not engage Maia?…. that’s MMA… but if STRIKE FORCE can alter rules of the ground game for 1 MAN FEDOR’’’’ why cant they alter it for a BOXER VS MMA?…. I Luv Sideshows!!!
GUD $$$ in Sideshows.
Plus if Coker was smart… he’d adverstise it as a new level of understanding MMA.. self defense… etc… Eventually he could throw in concete floor…. n mock furniture… that would be great!
We're not talking about freestyle wrestling Thorazine, we're talking MMA grappling. We went over this at my MMA gym yesterday, and the dude that was instructing just won the NAIA national championship.
I saw guys with a little over a year of MMA training defending this. You’re jumping into the conversation without even knowing what the argument is. The argument was that Toney’s TD defense was so gawd-awful that pretty much anyone could take him down. If you honestly believe Couture would have had to put up some great fight to get him down, I have as much respect for your opinion on the subject as the guys at the bar saying Toney would be harder to TD than Lesnar.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
ok... can't disagree with MMA grappling
and u have a gud talented nstructor and I bet he could take anyone down in yr gym better with a low single than anyone else n make it look easy… so the question is….
1. U guys say "anyone could have takedown Toney with that move and it wasn’t complicated. ’’’’
2. Puchead said that move takes a lot of skill.
3. Im saying that move takes a lot of skill… However,it was totally unpredictable…. u could tweak Toney;‘s Training in a week or 2 n be prepared to defend against a low single better than what he did, I can’t ever remember Couture shooting a low single in MMA other than in desperationg. Couture was primarily a greco roman wrestler after college. IMO Toney’s camp was probably looking at a lot of film and never saw a low single coming.
4. Yeah if a novist had the right training n gameplan n cardio he could have shot a single and taken Toney down as well… simply because he didn’t see it coming.
5. I never saw Toney quit until he was about to blackout… I give him credit for being ‘tougher’ than the average anybody or boxer… and I think he could defend against the average ‘anybody in the gym’ on a low single with 6 mths of training …. Randy guessed right…. n made it look easy… it was ‘Executed’ in High Level Fashion…. not yr average run of the mill MMA newbie
I saw guys with a little over a year of MMA training defending this. You’re jumping into the conversation without even knowing what the argument is.
Of coarse you did Dice, guaranteed he knew it was coming an trained to defend it, but when you don’t know it’s coming you can’t defend it now can you? ohh sorry you could even though you have no idea how he did LOL? Go figure.
Roll the Dice and tell me some more lies?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I don't even understand what you're saying. And that shot came from a ways out and was slow. It doesn't take an expert to move your leg out of the way of the guy who's crawling towards it. Your statement(or questions) don't make sense.
And yes, you can defend things that you don’t know are coming. There are these things called instincts and reflexes, both of which can be handy in aiding one in doing so. Being in shape usually helps your reflexes. Since Toney has very little instinct for grappling from a lack of training, and since he’s punch drunk and came in fat and out of shape his reflex’s weren’t good. Hence the entire argument of why that particular move wasn’t overly impressive and most of us thinking Toney would be very easy to take down for athletes in good shape.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
And yes, you can defend things that you don’t know are coming. There are these things called instincts and reflexes, both of which can be handy in aiding one in doing so.
There are also times when you go “what the F” and then it’s to late. Couture practiced his TD so that there was no chance of him getting hit by a Toney strike. Were his other takedowns would risk the chance of Toney being able to at least getting one strike off. If Toney could do it all over again he should of jumped back before were Randy could not touch him.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Dude he didn't even attempt ANYTHING. If that had been any other shot, he still would've gotten sat down because HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. No attempt at a sprawl, no step back, NOTHING.
That’s the point, he’s so pathetic he couldn’t do anything. If he’s a world class athlete he shouldn’t be thinking, “What the F” when he knows the shot is coming. That’s pathetic is it not?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
It's impossible to say what you would do
Just because your an athlete doesn’t mean you can’t be confused Dice.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
And I'm not making a blanket statement and saying that "because you're an athlete means you can't be confused". What I said was, if you know the shot is coming and have been training for it, there shouldn't be a
“What the F” moment. If there is, then what we’ve been saying the entire time is true, that Toney is pathetic and terribly easy to take down.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Diceeeeee''''
I’ve been at the sport of wrestling for a lot of years… … I’ve been totally put on my ass. by a unexpected low single shot. with shoulder into the shin bone.. as well as putting some of them on their ass…. I know everything I mean everything about defending a single… and when I’m caught off guard like that or my opponent is, it totally makes u look bad… it’s embarrsing but it happens when ur against a skilled wrestler… a novist or even 2 yr wrestler could never do that to me.
PH I know u don't need any backup
ur kicking ass very well…. I teach 40 new high school kids a year and only a hand full have a sucessful single in their arsenal by the time they r seniors….steping back is what Toney should have done… but the timing was so gud and unexpected I know Toney did not c that shot coming… it was perfect.
Dice's post is the end of this argument.
“I don’t even understand what you’re saying. And that shot came from a ways out and was slow. It doesn’t take an expert to move your leg out of the way of the guy who’s crawling towards it. Your statement(or questions) don’t make sense.
And yes, you can defend things that you don’t know are coming. There are these things called instincts and reflexes, both of which can be handy in aiding one in doing so. Being in shape usually helps your reflexes. Since Toney has very little instinct for grappling from a lack of training, and since he’s punch drunk and came in fat and out of shape his reflex’s weren’t good. Hence the entire argument of why that particular move wasn’t overly impressive and most of us thinking Toney would be very easy to take down for athletes in good shape.”
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
And what fucking lies have I told? And why do you put question marks after statements?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Becasue they are questions.
And it’s a lie to say this guy could it becaseu Randy could, and it’s a lie to say anybody could defend it. Wrestlers are trained to defend it boxers and every other athlete that is not in grappling have no idea what the move even is or how it works as you have pointed out.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I NEVER ONCE stated that someone could do something because Randy could. That's a blatant lie. He trained for 8 months against the TD and didn't even fucking move when Couture dove at his leg. Yes, any athlete with a minimal amount of training should
be able to take him down. It doesn’t take a grappling wizard to move your leg when the guy grabs for it. This wasn’t a GSP shot, this was a slow shot that you could see coming.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
You could take Toney down because Randy did so easily?
You wouldn’t of even attempted that move, but how could you when you don’t know what it was? Going for the double you would of risked taking shots and who knows what would of happened. And for the 100th time its a move that has worked on other wrestlers, but usually the good wrestlers have little problem and Toney is not close to a good wrestler.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
For the 100th time I didn't say anyone could do something because Randy could. I never said I didn't know what it was, I said I asked my wrestling coach to show me the proper technique.
Dude you’re reaching really far again. Couture just happened to be the one who fought him, he was getting exposed against the TD no matter who it was. He could’ve fucking stepped back or done anything. It was a SLOW shot, so you think he’s going to react better against a quick shot? You’re tripping.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
He didn't know what to do and it was obvious Dice he was stunned
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I bet he wouldn't
Couture could have taken him down any way he wanted. He just chose the safest.
Noons does not have power in his hands. Maybe his knees but his hands do not have KO power. they’re good enough to cut up and swell up gurgel’s face, but he won’t be ko’ing gurgel tonight.-STAK
The point is jay Toney would of had a better chance at defending the common takedowns over a move he wasn't expecting.
Randy makes good grapplers look bad and your probally right Toney would have had a hard time defending but he would have better chances than the move Randy did use.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Seriously though, Toney HAD to be expecting the shot. He didn't even attempt to sprawl. He saw Couture diving at him and had no chance whatsoever, didn't matter what technique was used.
His entire training camp was probably about defending takedown’s, how is he going to be so surprised when Couture shoots? This is a joke.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
You can't sprawl against that Dice
A sprawl is when the guy is shooting for the leg(s) not grabbing the foot. ANd yes it does matter what technique was used becasue the technique randy used was surprising more than anything. And once again it wasn’t a shoot Dice, if you knew what you were talking about this wouldn’t be a joke.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
You don't know what YOU'RE talking about. You can sprawl against any type of shot dude. And yes, that was still considered a shot.
He shot in for the takedown. Don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about when you have no clue. Done arguing about this. You’re going to keep spinning things, and I’m going to keep believing that Toney has garbage TD defense and would be taken down with ease.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
He didn't shoot for a takedown Dice LOL
He went to the ground were that technique is used, you should know the difference I expect more from you?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Puck you're being pathetic and trying to turn this into semantics now. What do you call it when you SHOOT at the other guys leg in a TAKEDOWN attempt? Adios, see you in another thread. This is almost as pathetic as you trying to convince me Toney was
in shape. What wonderful shape he was in. “Oh, but George Foreman, blah blah blah”…enough with the pathetic arguments.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Exactly Dice he didn’t shoot at the other guys legs!! Bravo you hit it on the nail he was on the floor on his knees grabbing the back of Toneys foot first..not a sprawl good job Dice thats better..clap clap clap… then when he pulled back on the foot(were experienced wrestlers usually get out) he dove into the knee from his knees to bring down Toney. There was no sprawl that could of defended that only backing out were I pointed.
And yes George Foreman, I said it once I’ll say it again Toney only needed to be able to go three minurtes either way.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Twisted, yeah ok just because you are wrong does not make it twisted
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I am not saying it wasn’t a real wrestling move..But that doesn’t make it hard for someone to do..
First you have to know what your doing
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
No you dont…if you are fighting someone who also doesn’t know what they are doing you can get them down without ever wreslting a day in your life..
You would need somone that knows wrestling to show you how to perform that move, Randy has been perfecting it since this fight was set up.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
this argument started by me saying you didnt need to be a wreslting prodigy to get Toney down…you disagreed with that statement and you are wrong
LOL I know you are but....WOW
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
How is it ignorance? Please just refer to Ulf's post below as it sums up what we're saying.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
This is one long winded arguement.
Can we agree that Toney has no ground talent and therefore fell to a move that a somewhat talented MMA artist can defend against. Second Batista just because he does fake wrestling does not necessarily mean he knows real wrestling. The only thing he wrestled was his steroids out of lashley’s hand. But we dont know what knowledge batista has and we cant assume he can take down Toney. But considering how lumbaring Toney is and how quick Batista is, I think there is a fair possiblity of a take down. Now does Randy’s take down require some talent? yes it does. Does Toney have any other talents besides throwing hands and mumbling: no he doesn’t NUFF SAID>
I've got something to say; it better to burn in hell than to fade away!!!
Exactly… My only point was that they both suck… but Batista being as big and strong as he is could take Toney down.. I never said he was going to use some great wrestling skill to accomplish it…But Toney displayed ZERO TDD..
without some technique or knowledge of how to accomplish those takedowns he is going to eat some shots before he got a takedown completed.
Doubtful, did Toney at any point look like any type of threat whatsoever? Go look at his stance. There's no reason to believe Toney could defend a simple single or double.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Watch his training he was going to use his striking as a defence
Would he of been successful? I doubt it in the end but he might of got one or two strikes at least standing in and thats all Toney could ask for.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
So he's going to use his striking as a defense against a shot? And you think he would be the least bit difficult to takedown? Seriously?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
His plan was to connect before Randy got a hold of him, really that was his best chance.
Watch his training they have guys shooting on him and you’ll see what I mean.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Yeah, that's a terrible strategy and will lead to you getting taken down every time. Toney was a pro boxer that doesn't mean he touches you and you go to sleep. It's not like he just has to touch his glove to Couture's skin and Couture's going to sleep.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
No but dazing the opponent for another flurry can and was really Toney's only hope we all know that
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Toney would need 3 maybe 4 good shots to stop or slow down Couture
I don’t think you’ve watched him box before. If Couture had pushed him against the fence and tried to Greco-Roman his ass, then Toney may have had a chance. He would have needed 3 or 4 clean ones though.
Noons does not have power in his hands. Maybe his knees but his hands do not have KO power. they’re good enough to cut up and swell up gurgel’s face, but he won’t be ko’ing gurgel tonight.-STAK
I've been sticking my nose in this
debate…. becaause I feel strongly about (skill sets)t Couture perfected that single leg since he was a youth.. he just had to dust it off and master it again….. that was no ordinary run of the mill single by a 1st 2nd or 3rd yr MMA guy…. yeah they can practice a single leg… BUT IT IS HARD TO DO.
yes nice low single
but were not giving TOney any possible TDD potential credit are we?
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Toney had no clue about that move, got to give Randy credit to throw in a takedown Toney would not of seen on tape.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
It's not a arguement it's fans thinking they know how easy it is to get out of a move, and have no idea what the move is?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
It's a single low, we all heard Rashad talking about it on MMA Live right after the fights too. It's not that no one knows what the move is, we're just saying it's easy to defend, because it is. Go to your local MMA gym and have them go through it with
you, that’s what I did. You try to act like it’s some intricate move that we just don’t understand, and that’s not the case.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
WTF?
We have expectation on the MINIMUM requirements of what ANY fighter in MMA is capable of…that’s what makes us hardocre fans. James Toney meets NONE of those requirements and therefore this fight was a freakshow. I have been watching MMA for a long time and have NEVER seen a low single leg of that cliber actually work…even at the local shows I go to. “toney never saw it so it was unexpected..” PUH-LEASE.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
Point of this arguement is just becasue Randy can do doesn't mean anyone on the street or here can including Batista
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
There's always a chance bobncc
I have no idea what Batista can offer but I’ll watch becasue it should be entertaining either way. But he has zero real wrestling back ground and he may be big but Toney’s hands are still great and I would pick Pro boxing hands over no experience period anyday.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
You must've turned it into that point, because I for one NEVER said or insinuated that because Randy can do something anyone can. This is what I said below about you twisting words.
Better shit to do than argue with you again. Hit you guys later.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
That is what you have changed it into, yes.
Your initial point was that it was some great unexpected move that Randy pulled off to get that fat-ass down. It was not, as evidenced by Randy himself admitting it.
C’mon Puck, you are better than this.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
Yeah Toney doesn't have the ground game to compete.
If he would at least shown takedown D he might of had at least one chance to swing but he didn’t even get that. Yes it was a move Toney didn’t expect becasue Toney has no idea how to wrestle and never seen that move, he was training to defend the common takedowns and this one was not. So pleaseee don’t tell me Toney should of been expecting a move that is rarely used thank you.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
So you're saying if Randy shot in there with a bog standard double leg, Toney would have defended it???
It looked to me like Toney started training wrestling an hour before the fight at most/
Not saying successfully
But he was prepared and a better chance than the move Randy did use were he wasn’t prepared. And he might of actually been able to throw one strike standing. I didn’t give Toney much of a chance I wanted to see him swing on his feet but his only chance was to connect while standing I gave him a 10% chance and that might of been to much LOL.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I dont think Toney was "prepared"
he showed no evidence to me of doing any kind of grappling training, or any kind of training period, by the size of him.
iIhonestly think Randy could have charged at Toney, flopped his dick out and used it as a makeshift trip wire and got the job done just as effectively. Toney was simply that damn awful!!!
Once he hit the floor it was game over
Some great grapplers get worked by Randy a man with 9months of training was F^cked when he hit the ground as many good grapplers would be if Randy was on Top GG ring a bell anybody? Toney needed a chance to strike standing and never got it once on the ground nothing surprised me.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
And that all this fight ever was
Freak show if you will but I like freak show fights here and there, one of the reasons we all liked Pride and the old UFC. Is there room in the UFC for freakshows? I think here and there, maybe twice a year why not?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
They don't even know what Randy did, it looked easy to get out of so they opened their mouth and looks like fools now
So it’s pointless they are talking about something they have no idea about, and the evidence is right here in typing.
First it was as simple as “just pulling the leg out of the hand”. After you explained to them it was the combo of pulling the leg and diving at the knee.
“Then anybody could of got out of it because Randy said most skilled grapplers could?” We are not talking about a skilled grapplers and if somoene doesn’t recognize it’s coming, it will work.
“But no you can sprawl anybody could sprawl” No once again you are wrong a sprawl with a guy grabbing the back of your foot and pulling combined with putting the should below the knee a sprawl would just make it easier,. Try having somone pull your foot towards them and dive below your knee a sprawl will be the worst thing you can do to defend and you will be on your ass faster. And this comment alone shows you have no idea as your buddies in the gym to try and sprawl when you do this to them LOL
All this proves they have no idea how the moves works, yet they want to argue and insult me? Whatever if you want to be a troll cool. Don’t complain when I become one too you, I have admitted when I have been wrong and it’s clear as day you guys are, now your just being trolls?
Of coarse you would of known what to do and wouldn’t of been suprised by Randy’s move you would of simply backed away before he could grab you and not been surprised at all LOL Easy to say from a keyboard.
I
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Go look at the GIF above. The idea is to sprawl AS RANDY IS SHOOTING, not once he has the ankle grabbed. So you tell me, what was Toney supposed to do there? He did nothing.
No attempt to move the leg, he didn’t swing(which is what you said his TD defense was), he just stood there until he fell over. Said it before, I’ll say it again, Toney was fat, out of shape(both of which you argued) and got sat down very easily and I believe he would get sat down by any good athlete with comparable size or better that could shoot on him. There is no reason for me to feel differently. Yes, he WAS a great boxer. Now he’s a fat, out of shape 41 year old with no grappling experience. All evidence points to him being a joke. Couture simply did his job and exposed that. I’m not trolling, I’m stating my belief based on the evidence that has been provided. I’m not saying I could’ve avoided Randy’s TD, I’m saying I could’ve at least attempted to avoid it, which Toney really didn’t. He just stood there until he fell over.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
He grabbed the back of the foot Dice
And the ankle is right there LOL Toney should of tried to pull his foot out and that should of worked fine but he didn’t know what to do and thats normal for someone with his grappling experience.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I'm just saying there was worse, thaqts all. You guys are making a bigger deal out of this than it really is.
I don’t mind “freakshow” fights once in awhile, Just becasue they are top dog doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able too?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I don't. MMA is a sport - not the WWE.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Agreed
Freakshows taint the sport. I was willing to give this fight a chance as James had a great boxing career and legitimate fighting skills unlike Walker, Batista, Canseco etc but he proved that he didn’t belong in the sport on Saturday and realistically that sort of fight should never happen again. I only want to see a pro boxer compete in MMA if he has bothered to train in the other martial arts first, otherwise it’s just a waste of time.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
toney should fight in mma's minor leagues if anything.
even god should have to work his way up! background, name recognition, hype and all that might sell shirts and get u into newspapers and tv shows but to value those people over the best athletes in the sport is major BS. If you’re not entertained by pure sport and real men competing you are simply not a sports fan but an idiot who should watch scripted shit where fans gets to have their way before they go home to mommy and cry. Randy being the “company” man he is, celebrated like hell, but since he got knocked out by Chuck the 2nd time he’s been getting special treatment to survive and still be a draw/moneymaker.
your mother !
Yeah that would have been funny, though Toney falling over and laying on his back doing nothing was pretty funny as well
And everyone has to work their way up, like you I watch sports to see the best compete and I am completely against guys getting fastracked to the top based on name alone. Everyone should be given an equal chance to make it to the top by beating lower level guys and improving their talent, unfortunately the UFC is not just a sport but also a brand looking to make a profit so they’re just as invested in making money as on putting on the best possible fights. Whilst that can produce stacked cards with competetive fights it also can lead to the stars being protected and mismatches being promoted as major fights. That sort of thing will help Zuffa sell millions of PPVs but will also limit how far MMA can go as a mainstream sport.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
I don't think so
Infact I think a lot of MMA critics that have stopped the sport from growing now realize how ignorant they have sounded.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
david is telling the truth.
look at NFL for example, it’s the best example of how an american brand and a company takes over and shuts down a whole sport. American football barely even exist outside of North America because the system or lack of a system they have is not made for others to get into a competitive business or even better a competitive sport and at the end of the day they all call themselves world champions after they’ve won a league championship? That’s unfortunately how ignorant they are, the franchise idea is terrible.. relegation and promotion should always exist in sport, cause it allows more ppl to get into the sport and it helps spread the sport world wide, maybe if they got their heads out of their asses they would do the same thing with MLS like in the rest of the world where the sport is huge..
your mother !
I think your love for the UFC makes you an apologist - and that is fine. But don't piss on my back and tell me its rain, homeboy.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
But don’t piss on my back and tell me its rain, homeboy.
????
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Its an expression - means that some things are what they are.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
What you mean is...
I don’t mind "freakshow fights once in awhile so long as they’re in the UFC, but the minute another org. does it I will tag them with some ridiculous nickname in true DW fashion. You’ve tried to justify this matchup since it was announced Puck. How much does Zuffa pay you?
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
I watched Hershal and liked it Dice what are you talking about?
I’m all for fights that bring attention to the other athletes in MMA and always have been. I only curse those that curse the UFC for doing it.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
hey what was that pro wrestler dressed in tights against whats his name in japan all about LOL
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes I was interested in seeing Toney fight
I said the fight wouldn’t last more than 3 minutes and Toney had a chance if he could get a flurry in. Don’t twist my words.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I'm not twisting your words. You do enough of that for everyone.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
And here comes the customary "LOL"...aka "I have nothing worthwhile to say, so I will insert a silly acronym in an attempt to downplay what you're saying".
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
just becasue you can’t understand doesn’t mean it’s twisting. Just admit it’s ignorance.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Dude when Herschel was first announced I seem to remember you calling them Strikefarce for it. I know I've seen you talk about how the UFC doesn't do freakshows and you like them for that. Then as soon as this is announced you start saying Toney's this
great champion, it’s something new, it’s an exciting matchup. I love the UFC too, but that doesn’t mean we all have to pretend like everything they do is awesome. Sometimes they do boneheaded things too. Like make this a co-main event.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Walkers opponent was 0-1 or 0-2 going in2 that fight =D
I’ll admit tho he did have 1 of the sickest stances I ever seen in the cage.
by d*locc on Aug 31, 2010 2:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ridiculously one sided beatdowns like that do the sport no good
You mean like Frankie beating up BJ on Saturday??
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
one sided beatdowns?
theyre have been too many to list.
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You know what i mean
That fight was something straight out of UFC1. One guy not having a single clue about the grappling aspect, getting taken down with an ankle tap, immediately transitioned to mount and just lieing there offering zero resistance. When was the last time you saw something like that???
i know i know,
but “one sided beatdown” got me thinking of alot of past fights.
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
cro-cop vs that guy who wore the wrestling luche mask the whole fight was unforgetable.
Previously DrewMoney$$$ "banned from sbnation" ...
by DetroitDrew1980 on Aug 31, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Jose Canseco vs HMC
* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki
1st thing he needs to learn is to go on a diet.
5’9" 137 pounds. That is probably the worst looking physcial apperance I have seen since that guy who KOed Duffee.
To be the best you gotta be one crazy son of a bitch…and that’s the truth - BJ Penn
237
I almost fell of my seat when they said Toney was 5’9". That’s the same height as me and I’m only 147 lbs!!
I fell out of my seat when they listed this fight as a co-main event.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I fell out of my seat when the "rejuvenated, motivated" BJ Penn yawned at the camera
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
What can you say, David? He rested hard.
Goldberg on Leben: One thing's for sure--he really did break that door on the Ultimate Fighter.
Rogan: uh...yeah.
At least BJ proved that he is not the best LW in the world or a P4P great so I don't have to read anymore comments from his fans overhyping him
And like jay said in another thread if anyone needs rest and relaxation it’s BJ haha.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
randy prob 5'11
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I want to see shogun/couture for the title
1. Because I would love to see that fight. one last shot at the unthinkable for the old warrior
2. it would be huge for the ufc
3. It will more than likely show randy that he can no longer fight at the top level, the fight would tell the truth about where he really stands at 47
but then again ive doubted randy in the past and he somehow manages to win. I know i will be pulling for him no matter who he fights
Shogun vs. Couture would be a brutal beatdown for Randy. And it would take away from other deserving LHW's in contention.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Meh. Maybe, but I’d still take Couture over Rashad.
Goldberg on Leben: One thing's for sure--he really did break that door on the Ultimate Fighter.
Rogan: uh...yeah.
Not in 2010.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
This is exactly why I didn't want Randy in this fucking freak show match in the first place
Randy has no right going anywhere near a title. No more gifted title shots.
Noons does not have power in his hands. Maybe his knees but his hands do not have KO power. they’re good enough to cut up and swell up gurgel’s face, but he won’t be ko’ing gurgel tonight.-STAK
Dude, seriously? Look at the quality of opposition and get back to me on that one. I admire Randy but let's not get delusional here.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Rashad, Lil Nog, or the winner of Rampage/Machida.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
true
StrikeFarce would have required him to lose to one of them first
Dak's fave fighters:
HW: Brett Rogers
LHW: Jon Jones, Machida
MW: Maia, Tim Kennedy
WW: GSP, Derek Downey
LW: Evan Dunham
Shad...he of a two-top-10 fight win streak.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
let Randy fight like others do to get to the top and he won't get there.
He’s been treated like a god his whole career, if he would have fought the up and comers like he should have with his average record he would’ve been beaten.
your mother !
Ha! *putting away the shotgun*
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
The UFC will lose all credibility if that happens
They would have to make Randy fight somebody even slightly relevant and win, like Forrest Dump for example.
why attakdog....the UFC didn't lose any credibility when they let a
2-1 Brock Lesnar fight for the title. At least Randy is an experienced MMA fighter.
"When the world hands you a Jeffrey.......Furry Walls, Furry Walls!"
-Aldous Snow
by WarriorSaint on Aug 31, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The 2008 HW division had 5 good guys at the time Brock was granted a title shot
2 of them were already set to fight each other (Nog and Mir) for the interim belt and Randy was only going to return for a big fight, so it was either Brock or Werdum. Whilst Werdum deserved the shot more he blew it by doing so poorly against JDS when he didn’t get it and we all know that Brock got the shot based on his name and drawing power but he proved himself worthy with his win over Randy as well as his successful defences against Mir and Carwin. Besides if Mir earnt a title fight (interim) by beating Brock in his second pro fight and if Nog earnt a title fight (interim) by beating Herring by decision like Brock did (less convincingly) then I don’t see why it’s wrong for Brock to be granted a title shot either, none of those guys truly earnt their spot because the division was crap and their were few big fights available.
In Randy’s case he’s a 47 year old competing in the most stacked division in the sport where nobody has gone more than one successful title defence since Chuck. His last 3 wins were a controversial decision over Vera (who isn’t top 10), Coleman (who had no business even being in the UFC) and Toney (see Coleman) at HW, that should not fast track him to a title shot over the likes of Rashad, Rampage, Bones, Machida, Bader and Lil Nog or even Andy (if he fights at 205 again), Forrest and Franklin. Name alone is not enough to earn a title shot in a competetive division and it’s unfair to compare that to a limited division like HW where there were 2 title fights booked a month apart from each other.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
I get that Dave.....my point is still valid......why worry about the credibility
of the UFC when the UFC has done things before like Randy vs Brock and it didn’t hurt the UFC then and it won’t now. I agree Randy shouldn’t get a title shot because he has one his last three fights BUT you have precedent of undeserving people getting a shot before….ie Patrick Cote and yes Brock Lesnar.
I might add that Brock was supposed to fight Mark Coleman in Minnesota but then Randy came back, next thing you know the Coleman fight is scrapped and the Randy fight is on. Pretty flawed logic to me apart from the business side of the Randy/Brock fight.
Thats all I am saying.
"When the world hands you a Jeffrey.......Furry Walls, Furry Walls!"
-Aldous Snow
by WarriorSaint on Aug 31, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people have forgotten that
the whole Brock/ Coleman thing. Thank God they never fought! I don’t think Coleman would have survived.
by PetrozellisJab on Aug 31, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
There have been many undeserved title fights in the UFC
Even back in the early days Randy and BJ got title shots in their 4th pro fight just as Brock did. Other bad title fights don’t make a Shogun-Randy fight any more competetive or relevant, that fight would be a mismatch and unfair on the more deserving contenders that Randy would have been skipped over. It’s a fight that shouldn’t happen unless Rashad beats Shogun and Randy gets a big win over a top guy, right now Shogun is way above Randy in both talent and in the rankings. Even to the casuals it would be a hard sell as Randy hasn’t beaten any top guys at LHW recently.
And Coleman got injured so Brock needed another opponent. He got fastracked because Randy agreed to come back as long as he got a big fight to make up for not getting to face Fedor. Nog and Mir were taken and the only other HW contenders coming off wins were Werdum and Brock. Really the shot should have gone to Werdum but Brock’s name won out. He beat Randy and Mir in the end whilst Fabricio lost to a debuting Junior so it all worked out well in the end and that division was so bad that it can’t be compared to the current stacked LHW division.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
Dia - I won't be pissed but I won't buy that PPV - guaranteed.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
You don't have to worry, that won't happen
Randy isn’t pushing for a title fight, and Dana isn’t pushing to give him one. I’ve seen repeated interviews with Randy saying he’s just wants interesting fights and if the title shot comes then it comes. I don’t think Randy has any misconceptions about his place @ 205 or his capabilities against the top guys.
by PetrozellisJab on Aug 31, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind a Bader/ Bones card with a Randy / Franklin co-headline
by PetrozellisJab on Aug 31, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather see Griffin/Franklin.
The fight would be 2 guys standing in the pocket throwing shots at each other.
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
Who cares about the celebration anyways, don’t read so much into everything. A fight is a fight and it elicits a strong reaction from most competitors (minus maybe Fedor). All the comments about this the day after the fight seemed silly to me.
by SKGBJJ on Aug 31, 2010 2:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well by the time that's done and dusted
Machida’ll be back in the picture, Lil Nog/Bader, Bones, hell anyone just not Captain Paycheck again.
Yeah those undefeated LHWs Bones (ignoring the DQ) and Bader are coming off losses
Rashad has been promised the next shot in 2011, then we have 3 top contender fights set up between Bader-Lil Nog, Bader/Lil Nog-Bones and Rampage-Machida. Those 6 guys are all above Randy in the rankings and all have done more to earn a shot, scraping a decision over Vera and submitting Coleman and Toney does not earn you a title fight. Randy’s at the lower end of the top 10 along with Franklin and Forrest and really he should be fighting one of those guys next as that fight would sell and would allow the winner to move up to face the top contenders of the division and have the chance to actually earn a title shot on victories not popularity.
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
Good Question . . . I have a better question
- Why is the Couture victory celebrated like he just defeated Lesnar, Shogun or A. Silva?
- Why not celebrate the GREAT performance by Joe Lauzon?
- Of the best fight of UFC 118 – Diaz vs Davis? I thought Davis was going to get the KO?
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
because
……this thread is about randy.
there are other threads if you want to talk about Diaz/Davis or Lauzon
Was it an expected win in a giant mismatch? sure. But toney had 1 tool that he was great at. this was no freakshow.
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
When Toney weighed in at 237 pounds, it became a freakshow.
"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein
SC - If Toney was in shape and younger - I would totally agree with you because I grew up on boxing. 2010 Fat Toney = freakshow.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Toney rolled in there looking like a pissed off micheline tire man!
by d*locc on Aug 31, 2010 3:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
dude, that was the Stay Puft Marshmellow Man
Dak's fave fighters:
HW: Brett Rogers
LHW: Jon Jones, Machida
MW: Maia, Tim Kennedy
WW: GSP, Derek Downey
LW: Evan Dunham
Looked like a seal. Not the Navy variety or the one that sings and has a burnt face.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
I'm already crazy enough to think I've been kissed by a rose.
"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove."
Very nice, Maniacs!
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
i prefer to call it a mismatch rather than freakshow
but being TOney is old, washed up, and out of shape its hard to argue lol
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I got much love for boxing SC but damn...
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
i am agreeing with you guys
(for the most part)
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It became a freakshow when Dana White called it a freak show well before the fight began.
Paul Daley had 1 tool to defeat Koscheck but as expected Koscheck won with his wrestling. There are so many examples of this fight in MMA. It is basically a throwback to the early years of the UFC . . . not really spectacular, especially since Toney didn’t offer much.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 31, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
so was Daley/KOS a freakshow?
-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)
by *Californication* on Aug 31, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Complete lie by the UFC and they should be embarrassed but guess what? They don't give a shit as they are laughing all the way to the bank and then to PinkBerry - where Toney and DW are sharing an ice cream cake.
"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Is Gabe buying?
There is nothing quite as satisfying as out running security after you've punched out a Flyers fan!
"I was in the moment, and the moment said smack you." - Bruce Willis
It must be nice
to win a fight and remain completely unscathed.
"Now fuck off, I got work to do!" -Cyrus
Also, losing a fight nearly unscathed and making about 1mil doing so…must be nice.
by HappyLittleTreez on Aug 31, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know why people are so put off by his reaction
He beat a guy who had talked shit about him for 9 months and didn’t even get hit. I’m sure he was pretty amped up. In another thread I wrote out my reaction which made his look like somebody taking a nap.
It’s not like he ran around like Matt Hammil after the Munoz KO.
Toney would probably had a chance if he came in aggressive throwing punches...
right off the bell rung. But instead decided to stay back and let Randy get into his gameplan.
Toney's a counterpuncher, he's never been an aggressive fighter
That style worked in boxing but when he’s overweight and out of shape facing an olympic alternate wrestler with over 10 years of MMA experience in a sport that he has never competed in any form before it was never going to work. I doubt that fighting aggressively would have worked either, if anything it would have made Toney even easier to counter and take down (and that’s saying something).
"Stay classy San Diego"
Jon "Bones" Jones, MMAs best young fighter and the next LHW champion
Agree.....the bottomline is the
better fighter, the better conditioned athlete, the most experienced fighter won plain and simple.
A punchers chance would be valid if the puncher had some conditioning to go along with that one dimension but he didn’t.
No way was Randy going to make the most obvious of mistakes so he did what he does best……game plan for the best result and then execute it.
"When the world hands you a Jeffrey.......Furry Walls, Furry Walls!"
-Aldous Snow
by WarriorSaint on Aug 31, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Sigh MMA fans are so niave.
Meanwhile the fighters have to confine themselves to reality and do all the real work.
Yeah, once Couture got the fight down it was a complete joke, but uhh…there is a reason he took a wild flying leap onto the ground from almost beyond kicking range. He didn’t even want to ENTER punching range to shoot a double, clinch or anything else, and he admitted as much. I’m sure did not want to risk kicking. He did what he knew he had to so that MMA fans could continue to indulge delusions about what he could have done if he wanted to.
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