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Junior Dos Santos: American wrestlers are effective -- but boring

Capt

Props: Tatame.com

Quoteworthy:

"[UFC 117] was excellent, but unfortunately there were Brazilian defeats. The Americans are good on what they do, they have a good wrestling technique and they take you down and stay there forever, getting theirs points and winning their fights. It’s a boring fight, but it’s an efficient game they have."

UFC Heavyweight number one contender comments on the main event bout between Anderson Silva and Chael Sonnen last Saturday night in Oakland. After defeating Roy Nelson earlier in the night, "Cigano" got to witness his friend and team mate get utterly dominated across four and a half rounds before finding a submission to steal the win. The Brazilian may be one of the few on earth who found Sonnen's dominance "boring," but he does voice an opinion about wrestling in MMA that has been heard before. How will he adapt to the challenge of Brock Lesnar or Cain Velasquez in his next fight?

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I really like this guy because he's not afraid to say what he feels

and so far he’s been able to back it up. Sooner than later Soares won’t be translating shut for him.

BJ Penn is the #1 P4P fighter in the world without question!

by MMACHAMP on Aug 11, 2010 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I actually really enjoy submissions.

But still hate the prototypical Brazilian approach which was actually showcased by Anderson the other night. If they don’t have a big grappling advantage, they just sit in full guard or half guard bottom, waiting for a standup or a mistake by their opponent. Not every time, but the majority of the time.

It’s too passive, and people don’t call them out for it nearly enough. Probably because so many ’net fans just despise wrestling and see BJJ as the natural foil.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

wtf yall talkin about? dos santos, vitor belfort, anderson, shogun, wandy

ALL brazilians….you’re saying all brazilians do is just lay around? so uh…..jds, vitor, anderson, shogun, wandy…these guys all made a name for themselves by just laying around being boring?

yea ok….

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like watching Brock pound peoples face in

 As well as GSP, Hughes, Cain, Sonnen………. yea ok JDS you ain’t fooling anyone, we know your scared now LOL

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like watching jon fitch......

that’s all i have. Am being serious.

Big Nog for Life
Inventor/supporter of "Gleison Tibau to Featherweight" movement.

by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Aug 12, 2010 10:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I do too

 Watching Hendo and Alves be embarrassed the way they did, and they are top level fighters takes skill.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

JDS won’t have to worry about being bored by Lesnar, because Lesnar will put him to sleep pretty quickly.

Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.

by P-Dub on Aug 12, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

+3

The next Heavyweight Champion of the UFC(therefore the world), Junior Dos Santos.

by jay. on Aug 12, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

EXCEPT

he probably won’t be fighting Lesnar next…there, i said it.

by Body Triangle on Aug 12, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's hard for me to predict a win for Cain.

I can see a couple of potential paths to victory for Velasquez, but it’s a really long row to hoe. I think you’ve got to put Lesnar as the favorite, even if it’s competitive.

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter though. Either one of those guys will demolish a guy who relies entirely on his stand-up (and remaining standing) to win. We just don’t know if Cigano has a presentable ground game.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya I like watching Jon Fitch tooooo ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I've got something to say; it better to burn in hell than to fade away!!!

by dandeman on Aug 12, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only thing i like about fitch

 is that he KNOWS he frustrating his opponents.. its pretty funny. he must be thinking “man, i bet everyone hates me and my style”. but he wins..so what can be said?

"i only want to be known as the best ever, is that too much to ask?" - BJ Penn.

by Omoplato on Aug 12, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can find exceptions to prove every rule.

The bottom line remains: the prototypical Brazilian approach on the ground is to lay there passively and wait for a mistake/standup. They obviously have the ability to transition, but we never see it.

I don’t care if there are exceptions. I don’t care if there are boring LnP wrestlers still plying their trade. I also don’t care if democrats and republicans both lie. I’m simply pointing out an unbelievably obvious trend that hasn’t yet shown signs of changing.

All of this said, I do love watching Palhares crank on people when he gets a hold of them, I loved watching Royce beating the hell out of people on VHS tapes I rented as soon as they came out at my local video store, and I enjoyed seeing Big Nog pull come-from-behind victories out of nowhere with sick late-round submissions.

Still, the prototypical Brazilian approach to the ground game has been, and continues to be, lay on the ground waiting for a stand-up or mistake.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I understand what he is saying

But to say one style more exciting than the other is dumb. To me boring FIGHTERS r boring not a particular style. Do the rules lends itself to favor a wretler, yes. But just like any martial art they can be boring depending on who and how they r used. Maynard and Fitch r boring fighters. Sonnen and GSP and Brock, they wreslte but they advance position or pound the shit out of u when on top. Jitz guys who try to fall into gaurd r boring as well. Leites and Maia at times(even though he is gettign better at other areas). BUt guys who use jitz like hazlett over burkman or guys like geroge stroppoopuilous(to lazy to look up how to spell his name!) and BJ who use rubber gaurd or Diaz using it to sub someone is Exciting as hell. Boxing at times can be boring as hell, but when certain guys box its beautiful.

by mspenc24 on Aug 12, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good post.

It’s definitely more about the fighter’s mindset and less about the style they were initiated into.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said.

"Matt Hughes is the greatest welter weight of all time; I would lick the sweat off his hairy chest after a grueling work out if I could. The only person I look up to more than Matt Hughes is Jay; he’s trying patiently to teach me about MMA, being as I don’t know shit about the sport. Thanks Jay, you are my hero and one hell of a Canadian."

by Dragon101 on Aug 12, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen JDS sub anyone???????

I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy

by Big-dawg on Aug 12, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gay.

But funny.

The next Heavyweight Champion of the UFC(therefore the world), Junior Dos Santos.

by jay. on Aug 13, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, no

Yeah because finishing fights is boring right? It’s one thing if you’re advancing position to try and end the fight via submission or strikes. But if you’re just gonna jon fitch or chael sonnen someone, sorry, but you’re a boring fighter. You’re skilled, but very boring. Wrestling in MMA is probably the closest you can come to being in a fight without actually fighting. Now guys like Frankie Edgar(paulie D) I have no problem with.

by Michael Brandon Culpepper on Aug 29, 2010 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

JDS is right the UFC rules favor wrestlers.

There’s no yellow card for excessive man humping. One strike every 15-20 is considered staying active.
Elbows are allowed which make ground n pound so effective (unlike like Pride and Strikeforce)
You’re not allowed to knee or kick an opponent in the face when their knee is down (which happen to be a very common position most wrester find themselves and is also considered a safe haven for them)

wrestling is w/o a doubt the best background to have as an mma fighter but it is boring and let’s not forget that the UFC is an entertainment co.

My legend precedes me like lighting precedes thunder.

by delldog on Aug 12, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

 Less points should be awarded for simply holding your oppoent in position and doing little damage infact if (X) amount of action does not happen the fight should be styood up. King Mo against Gegard, Gegard should have scored more points from the bottom as he caused more damage but it appeared holding your oppontn down scored point? I don’t think anything should change but the wat they score points. Brock causes damage when he’s on top as does Cain and many other wrestlers but no points should be awarded for holding the oppont down or advancing position strikes and sub attempts should be the only way.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with the idea that we need to change the points awarded

based on dominance. A positional control round where there was never a credible threat of a finish, or even significant damage, should not score as much as a round where a guy gains mount and works a handful of submission attempts along with some effective striking.

In today’s system, we basically score them the same unless it’s utterly one-sided. Even then, you don’t often see 10-8 rounds without a big-time strike or saved-by-the-bell sub attempt.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hate the 1/2 sec takedown scoring points

Why should a guy score points for taking someone down and like half a second later hes back up. Even though wrestling is a martial art used in mma, it shouldnt be scored like a wrestling match. It should be scored as a fight! In a fight u r only taking him down to do more damage from that position or keep opponent from doing damage standing. So a 1/2 second takedown dont mean shit! Recent example that comes to mind is Munoz against Okami.

by mspenc24 on Aug 12, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

the french suck for the fact they they simply breathe...and take up oxygen that ANYONE else could be consuming...

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly...

A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky

by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Aug 12, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

sn?

Screen Name?
Shitty Name?

Help me out here Body Triangle!

A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky

by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Aug 13, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

He better get use to wrestlers

 Because that is all that awaits him in the future.

by BJPennfan on Aug 11, 2010 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

It's pretty much the only skillset near or above him in the division.

I’m hopeful for him to beat some of those guys, but I’m really having a hard time seeing him KO Brock after being unable to do it to Nelson.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Truth

The next Heavyweight Champion of the UFC(therefore the world), Junior Dos Santos.

by jay. on Aug 12, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nothing disrespectful there… just stating an opinion. Which is pretty true… wrestlers who just sit on you (FITCH!) are boring as hell.

Luckily for him, he has wrestlers in front of him who pound the shit out of people on top and TKO foos

by dbcb on Aug 11, 2010 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

fitch is 10 times better than fitch for the simple fact he actually WINS...he has sub defense....he isnt some one dimensional fuck hole who has NOTHING but wrestling..

at least fitch can keep his arms and neck out of subs…..hes also 13-1 in the ufc…sonnen is 4-4 in the ufc and all 4 losses are by SUBMISSION…

dont even begin to compare fitch to sonnen….fitch has won 21 of 22…only lost to gsp…the dude is a WINNER….sonnen is a LOSER…all he does is take people down and lay on them…then gets subbed….

and sonnen hasnt finished a fight in 3 years….so to say fitch is boring and say sonnen is good…even though he hasnt finished a fight in 3 years is retarded

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

fitch is better than fitch?

My P4P Top 5:
1) GSP 2) Aldo 3) CHAEL SONNEN 4)Shogun 5) Fedor

by Newfie3 on Aug 12, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm trying to wrap my mind around it .....

Mongol General: What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

by O damn he got caught on Aug 12, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

lmao

Fitch has been caught in a guillotine plenty of times but he just rides it out, I would hardly say he keeps his neck out of subs

no shame in getting submitted by Sobral, Horn, Maia and Silva, who has john fitch faced that is better than Maia and Sobral on the ground?

Please don't ever let Carwin fight Big Nog! It would result in death

Can't decide who I hate more, Penn or Edgar

by ufcaddict on Aug 12, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

fitch has beaten how many top 10 fighters? and sonnen has beaten how many top 10 fighters?

the only top 10 fighter to beat fitch is gsp…

sonnen chokes (literally) whenever he fights a top 10 guy…

fitch is 13-1 in the ufc…sonnen is 4-4…thats really all that really needs to be said…

fitch has the 3rd best record in ufc history…next to andy and gsp…

and before you call fitch boring, remember, sonnen hasnt finished a fight in 3 years

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sonnen beat Nate the Great-who was top 10 MW when he fought him.

Sonnen beat Okami-who was top 10 MW when he fought him.

Sonnen beat Filho-who was top 10 MW when he fought him.

Fitch on the other hand beat Alves-who was top 10 at WW when he fought him.

and….

"they mad at me, I keep going hard reppin/
cause what's your Rampage to Rashad Evans/"
-Joe Budden (Something To Ride To)
http://www.zshare.net/audio/76866807deabe3c1/

by Nightwhistler on Aug 13, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good points.

Although, I don’t think many people would argue that, going forward Fitch is reasonably expected to out-perform Sonnen, regardless of who they’ve fought recently.

I mean, remember that Fitch essentially devalues any fighter he goes up against, and that’s about the last thing the UFC wants to do with their potential rising stars/contenders. So he’s not likely to get a lot of shots at fast risers.

Sonnen, on the other hand, has a history of losing quite a bit, so he’s more likely to get a shot at the other top 10’s. It’s kind of like deciding who to pitch to in a baseball game. Do you want to pitch to Albert Pujols or Alex Rodriguez? Historically, they’re not that dissimilar in overall productivity, but Pujols doesn’t strike out. ARod does, though. So you’re less likely to intentionally want ARod, since there’s a better chance that you can control his at bat than Albert’s.

Both guys are capable of hitting home runs at any given time, but one guy strikes out a helluva lot more often than the other.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 13, 2010 4:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post NightWhistler

The next Heavyweight Champion of the UFC(therefore the world), Junior Dos Santos.

by jay. on Aug 13, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

ITs the fight that will cause MMA to be Banned!!!!!!

Fitch vs Fitch psychological torture at its height. Torture so brutal it has to be banned by the Geneva Convention.

I've got something to say; it better to burn in hell than to fade away!!!

by dandeman on Aug 12, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

sonnen vs fitch would be the same thing as fitch vs fitch

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can understand Fitch hate,

but Sonnen? His GnP is anything but boring, even if it doesn’t lead to a (T)KO.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

sonnen hasnt finished a fight in 3 years...and fitch at least tries to improve position and do something

he looks for shit, yea he never gets the choke when he gets the back but at least he makes it there….sonnen lays in the guard and stays there….and has the worst gnp on the planet…..26 wins with 3 tkos….

sonnen lays in the guard, he NEVER goes for the mount….he NEVER tried to mount silva…he layed in his guard for 23 minutes…got the occasional half guard or side mount but silva would always get him back in guard….he never looked to advance his position…to look for the finish….to take silva’s back….

sonnen only has 3 tkos in 26 wins….he has more sub wins…so if he has more sub wins then why didnt he ever go for a sub? cause its obvious that he wasnt gonna finish andy with strikes….

and sonnen at his best couldnt beat andy at his worst….fitch is boring as hell i admit, but to say that sonnen is more exciting is retarded..

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now it seems you've just got a problem with the GnP process,

not action or entertainment, because there is simply no way to say that watching Sonnen fight is not entertaining. Fitch, sure. Sonnen, no. Finishes are nice, but they’re just supposed to be an exclamation mark to end the sentence (the sentence being the actual fight itself), rather than a simple period.

GnP will be around forever. If you can’t get excited about watching Sonnen’s last couple of fights, I honestly don’t know if you’re going to be entertained very often watching modern MMA. I’m not leading to the ‘get out of here, Hella! we don’t take kindly to your types ‘round here!’ I’m just saying that most people would agree that Jon Fitch’s style could be viewed as boring. The predictability of it, the pacing and the lack of a finish can take away from the excitement we experience when watching competitions.

But Sonnen busts people up. He simply damages them. I’ve never seen Anderson’s face look that bad in my entire life, and if he were a white guy he’s have looked fucking from nonexistent hairline to semi-existent hairline.

If your only criteria for excitement is finishes, you’re going to be disappointed a lot when watching the current era of MMA.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, wow.

My keyboard neutered the second-to-last paragraph. Should read:

But Sonnen busts people up. He simply damages them. I’ve never seen Anderson’s face look that bad in my entire life, and if he were a white guy he’d have looked fucking purple like Barney from nonexistent hairline to semi-existent hairline.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how did Fitch do against the very best in his division,

he got the snot kicked out of him, Sonnen easily won every round up until he got subbed against the guy many call p4p the best in the world. Fitch may have won 21 of 22, but he no gives a crap about seeing him fight for the title, that is why he’s only had one shot with so many wins. You may knock Sonnens record, but he was owning Silva up until that point, he also schooled Okami and Marquardt two other guys at the top of the division. If you did not have Silvas spunk in your eye blinding your vision you would have seen that he did more than just lay on Silva in that fight. I am not sure if you are just bitter because your hero nearly lost, or you are just upset because you didn’t get to lie on top of Silva for 5 rounds.

by Ade on Aug 12, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

its funny because he literally got snot beat out of him vs gsp

Everybody thought it was his mouthpiece till the replay..was a big snot rocket

Activia; now with bullshitifus ridicularus

by salamagogo on Aug 12, 2010 10:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Sonnen is a better pounder but he has yet to face a good wrestler himself

 Fitch going against GSP is a bad comparison to Silva vs Sonnen. Fitch’s bread and butter is wrestling but so is GSP’s were Silva’s is stand up with JJ guard. Yes Sonnen is a exciting GnP fighter but if Fitch or Shields happened to move up how would Sonnen fair?

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

fitch is too small to handle sonnen

fitch is so fucking skinny

My P4P Top 5:
1) GSP 2) Aldo 3) CHAEL SONNEN 4)Shogun 5) Fedor

by Newfie3 on Aug 12, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

He could bulk up easily

 He is around 185 on fight night

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

 He is much more technical than Sonnen in the grapple as well combine the fact he knows JJ he might actually finish a fight.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea and fitch actually has sub defense, you put sonnen in with a blackbelt all they have to do is grab and arm or a neck and the fight is over

time and time and time again sonnen gets subbed…he has no sense of where his limbs are when hes in a fight…

he fights on instinct instead of intelligence….he just says “takedown, lay there and swing”…it never occurs to him that if hes down there with a black belt that the jits guy is eventually gonna grab one of those limbs or his head and yank it the fuck off….so he ends up doin the one arm drum solo time and time and time again…

hes very very good against a guy he can bully who isnt used to being on their back….like okami….okami isnt gonna pull out some sick triangle or armbar or a crazy rear nakes out of nowhere….but put him in there with someone who is comfortable and wont panic like horn, maia, babalu and they got no problem laying on their back

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

What was great and props to GSP for this,

Is that GSPs wrestling was able to nullify whatever Jon Fitch could do on the ground or any attempt at a take down. This allowed for GSP to use his striking game against Fitch where he completely rocked him and beat the snot out of him. This was the most exciting Jon Fitch fight because his lay, crab and pray tactic was thrown out the window by GSP.

I've got something to say; it better to burn in hell than to fade away!!!

by dandeman on Aug 12, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now GSP at 185 would be wicked!

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea but gsp still couldnt finish him even though he pounded the fuck outta fitch, which proves fitch has a hell of a chin

and gsp still claims to this day that fitch was his toughest fight ever…(i assume he isnt counting the first serra fight)

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

brock "mr boring wrestler" lesnar is going to beat you azz down. bank on that jds.

you could not even knock out the hillbilly mr. olympia.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Glory favors the bold. Chance favors the prepared mind. Luck, well i have that too. University of Utah goes to the Pac-12 conference in 2011. I expect them to compete immediately for the conference CG. Brock Lesnar will defeat Cain Velasquez. Womens MMA, the next big thing in sports. 24 days till the first game of college football. UTAH vs Pitt. September 2nd 2010.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Aug 12, 2010 3:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Hes gotta get by Cain first .

" Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. " ~
Mike Tyson

by MidWayMonster54 on Aug 12, 2010 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

since he will outweigh him be 40 pounds i dont see how velasquez can prevent every takedown that lesnar does.

when brock gets on top of you, its nighty night.

I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. Glory favors the bold. Chance favors the prepared mind. Luck, well i have that too. University of Utah goes to the Pac-12 conference in 2011. I expect them to compete immediately for the conference CG. Brock Lesnar will defeat Cain Velasquez. Womens MMA, the next big thing in sports. 3 weeks till the first game of college football. UTAH vs Pitt. September 2nd 2010.

by wolfmanshowlforever on Aug 12, 2010 3:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

i like cain a lot...but brock is gonna murk him...and thats whats cool bout the hw division now...cause the 3 top guys i really like...

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 4:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like Cain's odds actually.

He has amazing cardio, crisp striking (only getting better), and has the wrestling pedigree. If Cain catches Brock he definitely won’t punch himself out like Carwin did.

by T0R0 on Aug 12, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

His strikes though are no were near as powerfull as Carwin's either

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Are you serious, 8 wins and 7 by TKO???

He’s got power and his striking against Nogueira looked very good.

by T0R0 on Aug 12, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nog's chin has totally gone though

He must have hit Kongo with over 500 punches and he was no closer to stopping him than I was. I dispute his power and really dont see him stopping lesnar with punches.

by attakdog on Aug 12, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

NOG's TKO was a momentum strike were he himself was nearly hit.

 Don’r get me wrong Cain has power but it is not Carwin power.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess all the 7 guys he’s defeated via TKO not named Cheick Congo had weak chins then.

by T0R0 on Aug 12, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, but Rothwell aside none of them were exactly contenders

Hell Mick Bizbing’s got 12 wins by TKO, you think he has power????

by attakdog on Aug 12, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice perspective. Even Jake Shields has 3 TKO's.

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Aug 12, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Cain wins its by decision or a surprise sub. I don't see the KO - Brock's cro magnon helmet is too thick.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Aug 12, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

i dont know how to sub brock though, he sure as hell isnt gonna armbar that fucker

he’ll have to try to get to brock in the later rounds…he’ll have to keep it a striking match the first few rounds…use his speed to tag brock, get in and out in a hurry, frustrate brock…cause he sure as hell isnt gonna treat brock the way he treated kongo…

it really depends on how good cain is at scrambling…if he can do some reversals and get out from under brock if brock does get on top of him…but god forbid he gets mounted…

but hes also got to make sure his strikes are fast and in and out…cause even though brock may have the ugliest striking technique in the division if he does land one solid flush shot on your chin you’re going down…..kongo dropped cain 3 times…brock lands one of those ugly horrible looking but flush shots to the jaw its goodnight, especially if he follows it up by pouncing on cain

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know about Brock's punches looking 'horrible.'

The big straight rights he landed in his first four fights were picture-perfect boxing technique. Granted, they weren’t part of complex combinations, and he threw them flat-footeed, but the only time his striking really looked bad was against Carwin. I think a lot of people’s striking would look bad against Carwin, but Brock definitely doesn’t have plus handstriking technique.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps, but his striking has definitely improved. Couple that with his wrestling I think he has a better chance to dethrone Brock than Carwin did. If Cain wins, it’ll definitely NOT be by decision. And I also question Brock’s chin, it always seems to rock him a lil bit and immediately goes for the takedown.

by T0R0 on Aug 12, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah his striking's defo improved

Think Carwin still has the best chance to dethrone lesnar due to his genuine one punch KO power and size. Think Cain’s gonna be very undersized against Brock and I dont think he can spark him in one. Dont think brocks chin is suspect either, he took some big shots off carwin. it’s just his wrestling instinct kicking in and going for the td when he’s rocked, thats his bread and butter, he’s not a standup fighter.

by attakdog on Aug 12, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

yea after carwin landing over 70 shots on lesnar and not being able to put him to sleep theres no way you can question his chin

carwin is the hardest puncher in the entire ufc….yea he rocked brock and wobbled him and turtled him and bloodied him but brock still finished the round on his feet….and if carwin can land 70 shots on brock and not put him to sleep i just dont see cain doin it…

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it's borderline possible

for Cain to KO Brock. But it’s not going to be via GnP. It will have to be after four rounds of chopping away at his legs, then forcing standups once he’s stunned.

The problem, as you alluded to above, is Cain’s chin doesn’t exactly scream “Four or five round fight with BROCKLESNAR!”

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess all the 7 guys he’s defeated via TKO not named Cheick Congo had weak chins then.

 Once again……Don’t get me wrong Cain has power but is not as powerfull as Carwin…….and I’ll add Brocks chin is not like any of Cain’s opponets. Can Cain KO Brock? yeah of coarse, would I bet on it? No

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cain would be wise to work a volume striking approach

with an eye toward breaking down Brock’s legs with kicks and knees from the clinch. I just don’t see him winning a stand-and-bang exchange with Lesnar. Cain’s striking is miles more polished and technical than Brock’s, but the range and chin advantage Lesnar will pretty much make that strategy a complete loser for Velasquez.

Also, don’t wrestle with Brock on the ground. Scramble back to the feet as soon as possible, otherwise you’re going to get crushed. I don’t care who you are, there isn’t a HW out there who can withstand Brock’s GnP.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't wait for this fight

 Brock can be beat, but I would not bet on it.

 Now with kicking and knee legs Cain will have to be very careful because not having both feet planted makes it much easier for Brock to get Cain to the ground. I think both these fighters wan t top advantage and Cains best chance is being on top the fighter that sets up the best takedown opportunity could easily win this fight as both have nast GnP and even though I don’t like saying it Brock’s ground guard is not proven.

 We also have to remember Brock thought his stand up was much improved were it clearly was not so his gameplan will change as will his approach.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Very true Dos Santos….If I had to watch another round of Fitch I would have stabbed myself to death….effective but boring as shite.

by Robert Marland on Aug 12, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL

 I like watching Fitch, his opponents are devastated after fighting him they know what he’s going to do but can not stop it. Fact is like his style or not it’s effective and the reason he is #2 WW in the world.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

fighting fitch has to be mentally demoralizing to an opponent too....you train for months and months

and you get in there and you are completely helpless….its like fitch doesnt even have to train…he can sit on the couch his entire training camp and not do shit except work on his cardio to make weight and he’ll still beat you….when you’re lookin up at the lights in the middle of the 2nd round and you realize “damn i just lost the 1st and 2nd round, i have to rely on a miracle finish in the 3rd or its over” and then a minute into the 3rd you get taken down and you’re like “FUCK the fight is over” its just got to fuck with you mentally….

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

but unfortunately there were Brazilian defeats??????

So all JDS cares about about is wether or not Brazilian fighters win??? Sounds a little rude to all the American fans who don’t care what nationality you come from as long as you bring it! That’s like Brock saying “all I care about is beating that Mexican, so the belt can stay in US”

by Robert(1) on Aug 12, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

The belt will stay in the US either way, rob. Cain is a US citizen.

AMERICA, FUCK YA!

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Aug 12, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

+ 1

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Aug 12, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

My point is I don't root for fighters based on their race

Anderson
Fedor
Shogun
Penn
For example thats like me rooting for Frankie based on him being born in NJ! how dumb is that…War Penn!!!!
So when fighters say its all about the Brazillan wins, i don’t get it….

by Robert(1) on Aug 12, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

agree or country for that matter

  This is not the olympics I cheer for style and attitude

1) Wandy Greatest ever*
2) Brock
3) GSP
4) Hendo his endurance is hurting him but one of the best ever*
5) Alves

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's the #1 reason I turned into a MMA fan

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Franklin in my opinion should of been a win for Wandy

 Leben will be an awsome fight for sure, but he is getting up there. I’ll cheer for him no matter what though and hope he still has it in him.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Aug 12, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

 i thought wandy won the franklin fight too.

by NateDogg77 on Aug 12, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha keith hackney and steve jennum turned me into an mma fan

the brockness monster grinds up teenagers and puts them in his protein shakes..and uses razor blades to chop toddlers up into lines to snort like meth...the reason no one can find bigfoot is because the brockness monster found him years ago and now has him in numerous ziplock bags in the back of his freezer...

by HellaHectic on Aug 12, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's wrong with that?

It’s called pride for your country – just like how you root for the US to have the most Olympic gold medals.

by T0R0 on Aug 12, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

This is the reason the mix of the arts carries me out. I don’t like to watch neither pure wrestling nor jiu-jitsh without submissions attempts. But into a fight is totally differente. As Marco Ruas says: “If the guy grabs I hit; If the guys hits I grab”. Deal with it. Figure out how to avoid being caught and dominated by wrestlers and punish them with your wrist.

"No one wants to be defeated" Michael Jackson on MMA fights
''A man is not finished when he's defeated; he's finished when he quits'' Richard M. Nixon on Fedor's loss

by Eduardo Cruz on Aug 12, 2010 10:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Sonnen is not just laying on dudes. he drops some heavy punches when he postures up and comes down (ie: why he gets caught in triangles sometimes)……now someone like fitch that really doesn’t do a whole lot, just stays on top or gets halfway to the back…or a guy that just puts his head on the other guy’s chest…that ish is boring.

Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.

by theworldsoldestsport on Aug 12, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions  

agree

There is a boring grinding style like GSP and Fitch and then there is violent ground n pound from guys like Sonnen, King Mo, and Fedor

by NateDogg77 on Aug 12, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

said it before, will say it again

ask BJ Penn how GSPs ground and pound is

My P4P Top 5:
1) GSP 2) Aldo 3) CHAEL SONNEN 4)Shogun 5) Fedor

by Newfie3 on Aug 12, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Violent GnP from MO?

Gaygard beat him up from his back. Mo has good TD’s, but has not proven he has ANY GnP against elite talent. (and that is giving gaygard the benefit of the doubt that he is elite)

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is to not stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

by Ulf Murphy on Aug 12, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you aren't

…going to take risks in your fights you won’t get any rewards. Not all wrestlers are boring but Jon Fitch is (MO) and unfortunately for him the way he fights, he will have no opportunity to ever get a $$ bonus. When it comes down to it, main eventers are supposed to sell PPVs and I can guarantee that’s why Fitch is getting passed up on when anyone in his position would have had 2-3 shots with his record.

by emjaydoespr on Aug 12, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

To each his own.

   I like seeing good submissions and wrestling.I believe Its the technical aspect that Impresses me.

bluecollarwarriors.org-MMA Apparel

by BLUECOLLARWARRIORS.ORG on Aug 12, 2010 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Generally, when people say that wrestling is 'boring,'

they’re trying to create a psychological out for themselves if they get dominated by it. Remember Dan ‘ardy and Paul Daley’s nearly identical remarks prior to their matches against GSP and Koscheck? There are a lot more examples of it, like Toney’s disparaging ‘homo’ remarks regarding wrestling.

But it’s good smut, and we eat it up, so it’s probably ok for them to use the angle when hyping their fights. In the end, positional control is what wins the majority of MMA fights, whether that’s achieved by lockdown BJJ, transitional wrestling or ‘wrestling in reverse,’ it’s always about controlling where the fight takes place.

Read any example of a good tactician’s breakdown of factors needed for victory, and they all comment heavily on choosing terrain wisely. In individual combat sports, the terrain can effectively be created by the more skilled fighter, which makes it pretty obvious that terrain/position control will be the primary contest.

If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...

by misterjonez on Aug 12, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

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