Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker believes Jake Shields has overvalued himself
by James Kimball on Jun 18, 2010 3:56 PM EDT
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Props: MMA Fighting
Quoteworthy:
"We continue to have dialogue with his dad, who's his manager, and Rich [Chou], who's our matchmaker. He has a good relationship with Jake and his father, and they've done the numbers dance and they'll continue to do that until Jake makes a decision. But where he is going to end up, who really knows? At the end of the day, Jake has something he feels his value is and we feel the value is in a certain area, and there's a discrepancy there... It has nothing to do with a bidding war, it has to do with, what is the value of the fighter? And the value of the fighter, to me, is based on: does he get great TV ratings? Is he a great fighter? Does he put butts in seats? And every fighter is different. Does he have that X factor to become a superstar. So every athlete we evaluate differently, and most of the time, the fighter feels that their value is slightly higher than the promoter is willing to pay."
Scott Coker makes it clear that what Jake Shields believes he is worth to a MMA promotion, isn't quite on par with what Strikeforce values him at. Coker mentions that aspects involved in evaluating a fighter's worth for his company include how big of a draw they are, something that Shields has never been known for. These sentiments sound eerily similar to how UFC President Dana White described Dan Henderson's before he split for Coker's show. Anybody see this situation playing out differently? Or, is the coffin already nailed shut?
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makes sense
since they pay fedor 2 million and he’s sold exactly 4k tickets in san jose. Don’t give me the “he got 4 million viewers on CBS” argument, it was first time MMA was on national TV, me vs. Jay woulda gotten good numbers if hyped properly.
~
either way you slice it, cokers right..
jake is not a ‘superstar’ type of fighter, and never will be..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Coker didn't properly market his champ and now he's letting him go.
Coker gambled on Henderson (who isn’t a big draw either) and lost. If he had spent some time and effort marketing Jake he wouldn’t be in this predicament.
Agreed.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
right, there's nothing there to market.
Jake needs to pull his head out of his ass and learn how to throw a punch! his GnP is probably the worst i’ve seen.
USA FTW !!! I witnessed a robbery today, african refs blow.
i love the sig roberto
that was total bs
Psalm 144:1 Thank the LORD, my rock, who trained my hands to fight and my fingers to do battle,
by the chubbster on Jun 18, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
And the value of the fighter, to me, is based on: does he get great TV ratings? Is he a great fighter? Does he put butts in seats?
This is so true and what many Dana haters attack Dana with. Remember Henderson many thought jsut based on being a good fighter he should of been resigned and paid top dollar, but this is were SF failed to look when Dan was PPV main card besides Rampage & Silva his numbers sucked, and Jake is the same way even worse if was not the champ. The uFC may be willing to pay a little more though becasue they can also inflict some damage to SF?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
~
agreed, puck..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree and how about Hendo
He brought in Hendo to dethrone Jake and it backfired, now he has a overpaid 40 year old fighter instead of Jake by the sounds of it.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Yep, and they never marketed Shields or even the Hendo fight for that matter, they did a 360 and ran more and longer comercials for Fedor. Of couse Fedor is Fedor, but with minimum promotion you get less reponse.
Shields was on most of the CBS cards, Shamrock as actually counter-marketing him on air until the last fight when the commentary crew told him to leave his personal feelings out of the broadcast booth.
I like Henderson but Shields is a young Champion who hasn’t lost since 2004 and went up 15lbs to get name opponents at Strikeforce. They should come to a compromise, or they end up being a feeder club for the UFC.
by mixmaster2669 on Jun 18, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
Fedor is a top fighter, gets asses in seats. I will buy any fedor ppv and so will any MMA fan. Shields is a boring fighter mostly anyone in the UFC would stomp on him. Henderson coulda taken him out.
they aren't looking to get hardcore fans in seats
theyre trying to get new fans. brock and kimbo (unfortunately) are huge draws compared to Fedor
Anyone who knows fedor, which is a lot
Will buy his show. Also there is a huge huge russian community that will buy all his fights. That alone is a ton off $$$
Think NY and Brighton beach, Russia and Chicago markets.
huh?
then why when he headlined a ppv it sold 80k?
a lot of hardcores.
the UFC worst PPV is projected to get 200k buys, Fedor drew 80k, go do some research before you act like you have a clue!
Lets see his nimbers on Showtime
Fedors actual salary may not be too high but the co-promotion is way to high of a value for one fighter!! For the great Fedor fighting in less than a week I have heard more on Toney and Coutures upcoming fight tha Fedors wich tells me SF is trying to prove a point and do the same amount of work as M1 in marketing and thats very little.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I can tell u the #'s
he’ll make 500k on paper and M-1 gets 1.5 million, it’s been reported a few times!
Also about AS
I dont see why people dont like him. I personally enjoy watching him make Damian look like the fool that he is. I like seeing him be so far superior that he makes pro fighters look like little kids. Thats skill
Finishing mai would have been far superior
Dancing, talking shit in the ring, then running around doing almost nothing for 2 1/2 rounds isn’t being far superior.
That’s why people have a problem with him… If he is that much better than just finish the guy.. Anderson silva when he is on his game and attacking is entertaining enough… I dont need all the bullshit.
"The Red Eye Jedi Holds a 7th Degree Black Belt In BongHitsu"
by Red Eye Jedi on Jun 18, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No, Fedor is not a household name in America, only among hardcore fans. Even why they promote him for CBS cards, all Americans see is a pudgy bald guy who can’t speak English and looks more like George Costanza than the Baddest Man on the Planet.
Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.
a bit of a exaggeration dont you think?
mostly anyone in the ufc would stomp on him and henderson coulda taken him out? hendo didnt take him out and jake shields will be tough for anyone in the ifc to beat let alone stomp on
Wow, I stopped reading that post after he said something about fedor putting asses in seats. Jake took Hendo’s best shot, then destroyed him for the next four rounds.
Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.
What Silva is to Brazil is what Fedor is to Russians
There is a lot of them my man. So becuase you dont like him doesnt mean he doesnt put asses in seats. Dana wants him for a reason. He knows how to market him and knows he is a great fighter. He took out every UFC champ he faced.
fedor doesnt really put asses in seats at the moment
i blame that more on his competition (or lack thereof) than him but the results are in and from his last couple of fights neither his live gates or his ppv numbers were anything to brag about
you're making me laugh
Silva isn’t a huge draw either. neither speak english and americans want to hear fighters/athletes talk.
Dana would promote him…against Brock who is a draw. Do you think a community of 20k russians in NY are all buying Fedor’s cards?
one more thing Mir
why is the event next week not even half sold out if Fedor is a draw?
and all this is comig from a huge Fedor fan
AS is not exactly a brazilian icon either
wanderlai and shogun are much more popular in brazil than anderson
You know that MMA isn't just a sport in America?
We like it in other countries and PPV isn’t the only cashcow.
For now maybe
But I don’t see why really… MMA has a fucking hugh audience outside of America, so I don’t really see how they can’t make money outside of the states.
Americans are known for unreal consumption.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
agreed
it’s just a fact man. we buy PPV’s, not other countries. We sell out arenas constantly whereas you guys sell out an event or two per year. just stating the truth. It’ll blow up worldwide, but it’ll take time
~
very true..
the only other country i can think of that does as well as we do, it would be canada.. they gots some crazy mma fans out there…
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw that Jake Shields said he was surrounded by fans in Toronto where he did a seminar and an MMA Expo and in Vancouver where he went to be with Chuck.
The thing that was interesting was he said he was getting mobbed on the streets, that he gets that some in Vegas, LA and San Francisco but Canada was out of control.
Way to go Canuck’s !!!
by mixmaster2669 on Jun 18, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I am telling you kevjack
There are more russians than you think and its strikeforce making crappy fights aka werdum and not marketing. Fedor is a humble guy like st pierre is. Its all marketing and UFC would have defore up in the elite in seconds!
the time difference is obviously a problem.
and Strikeforce is not a big deal internationally at all, they don’t have any tv deals that i know of. The UFC does.
USA FTW !!! I witnessed a robbery today, african refs blow.
Russia may get millions of viewers on free TV and around the world in no north american countries wich means sh^t
Unless they have Russian sponsors or overseas sponsors that help fund the SF event and I don’t think they have any so the American sponsors could give two hoots who watches in China or Russia and = zero dollars for SF in the end. Now if SF got payed for overseas advertisement then maybe Fedor would be worth the co promotion but I don’t think SF sees much money from outside north america.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
thats why I said N. America stink
and Mir, I don’t care how many “russians” there are, if ur talking russians in north america, then Fedor would sell more than 80k ppv’s and if ur talking russia, they don’t have ppv
I cant agree with that
Hendo didnt have killer instinct. I can bet any money shields will lose to a top contender.
I agree
Shields is a good fighter but he will not beat any of the top 3 MW’s or top 3 WW’s. It almost sounds like the falling out Henderson had with the UFC. Hendo wanted more money and Dana didn’t think he was worth what he wanted. Now Shields wants more money and if Dana and the UFC pay him what he wants and if he goes in there and loses to someone whether its GSP or Alves then he is a bust! Maybe this is why Shields hasn’t been signed by the UFC! He might want more than what he really is worth! If I were SHields, I would stay with SF. He’s champ, he will not be champ if he signs with the UFC. As for Hendo, I really think Hendo would win that fight 9/10 times. Hendo screwed himself with the weight cut.
he can't sign yet
like any other contract (Lebron for instance) as a free agent he had to wait 3 months to sign. I believe it’s in the next few weeks.
I’ll give Dana his props, he tends to drop guys (AA, Hendo, Werdum etc) and then these “top guys” he let go, end up being a bust else where. That is a talent, being able to judge talent
I like Shields. He seems like a nice guy and he’s a good fighter. But Kev do you really see Jake beating Anderson, GSP or any other top MW or WW? I don’t see him beating any of these guys. It really looks like a Hendo or an AA. Hell I will even throw in Rogers lol.. I know your a Diaz fan and I don’t think Jake could beat Nick either. All I am saying is everyone is jumping on the Jake train because he beat Hendo. Lets wait and see what he can do against top MW’s and WW’s in the UFC. If he signs with the UFC I hope he does great like any fighter, but I just don’t see him being a champ at any weight in the UFC. BTW, are you going to the fight?
I think Nick beats him...easily!
and I don’t think Jake would even consider fighting at MW in the UFC, that shows the talent difference in the two organizations.
I don’t see any WW beating GSP, and Shields already beat Fitch (#2 WW in UFC) in a submission match, so yeah I think he’ll be fine in the UFC
Would you pay 50 or 60 bucks to watch
Fedor vs. Werdum?
to me 10 bucks is not a big deal
if im already paying 50, 60 wont kill me. Also I hate werdum and i dont like how he fights but because Fedor is fighting i would. Now if you ask me about strikeforce vs UFC and the presentation…UFC smokes them
I would if there were better fights
But just for that one? No, I don’t think so. Not to discredit Werdum, I just don’t think it is a good fight.
Deuce02..i agree
Werdum is the problem here, not fedor guys.
Most casual fans will not pay that much to see Fedor/Werdum. No marketing behind them to lure the average joe. If Fedor was in the UFC he would be a part of the UFC hype machine. Most people associate MMA with UFC.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Ok
I agree, UFC has superb marketing. Dana will make a killing with Fedor. Strikeforce is the problem here, not fedor because you just said him in the UFC would make $$$$ do to marketing…Now the UFC could not market werdum and thats why he gone yo.
So if this scenerio happened
Fedor fights Brock and woops his ass. he is now champ. What kind of promoting will the UFC have? Now they have a “nobody” that beat the hell out off their champ. How do you promote from there? Carwin vs Fedor? Most people dont know who carwin is either…
then you have a reason he may become a draw
but the fact that he’s older now, doesn’t speak english and hasn’t been in the UFC’s hype machine long, you have a guy that will make himself a lot and make the UFC a little. my guess, Dana’s plan is to have Brock beat him and then cut him
After the UFC got done promoting Fedor for the Brock fight
everybody would know he is. Sheesh Mir, come on!
Mir -Its not about Fedor the fighter or his skills. Its about reaching out to the American audience. Let me ask you something. Why do you think Kimbo is more popular than Fedor? Skills or marketing?
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Marekting
But thats because Elite XC and youtube got his name out there. So why not market fedor? he wil lmake more money…
Simple
Anderson silva gets maerketed just fine..he ’doesnt" speak eanglish…
he does?
go ask a guy on the street who Anderson Silva is…then ask who Kimbo is, I’m willing to bet you’ll be surprised at the response you get!
All i care about if fighting and matchups
To me Fedor is unreal and I like the fact that he is russian because I root for him. When he took out rogers, i was all smiles. Its all a merketing game and the UFC knows what they can do with his name. Brock would not win this fight. Brock is an overzised efing WWE reject who is HUGE and thats the only thing he has on people. I hope Carwin smashes him.
Good post.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
lol
so you get put in ur place telling us what a draw Fedor is, but when u realize ur wrong, u don’t care ur just a fan? I’m a huge Fedor fan and hate Brock, but fact is, Brock has some skills
How am i put in my place?
I know fedor will sell. Its Strikeforce that blows moneky nuts with a announcers in freaking caged fences. Fedor is awesome and will make tons of people by PPV if he was in the UFC. Bottom line is he puts asses in seats if its done right and strikeforce blows.
Actually...
While Fedor is a top fighter…he isn’t getting butts in the seats. Only 4000 tickets sold for Fedor v Werdum and it is happening next weekend…I think, I am starting to worry.
I bought tix the day they released and I checked just the other day. tickets 4 rows behind me were still available.
I wanted Hendo in the UFc because I thought he had the best chance to beat Anderson. He had a bad fight, but I suspect he will be the SF 185 champ in two fights.
Perhaps rather than contradicting himself, he is learning things as he goes.
"You made your decision, now live with your decision"
~
jake will be signed to the ufc by the end of the month..
he will fight late aug, early sept…
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
~
he wont be fighting gsp in his first fight..
im hearing a condit rematch…
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think with this statement it's only a matter of time when we hear Jake's in the UFC
And maybe Dan can finally win a belt since his Pride days?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
even if it isn't the first
I think Jake is GSP’s biggest threat at 170. It will happen. Gsp will dominate. He will win a decision.
agreed
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
How would you fellas see that fight playing out?
GSP keeps it standing the whole time and picks him apart is what I would imagine.
~
i see it being very simular to fitch/gsp.. a little bit of everything from george.. with jake losing a UD..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If GSP was to Fitch Shields he would almost have to move up
because that would be ridickerous.
~
after gsp dummies kos, im guessing he’ll fight jake, win and move up..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
An Interesting Dilemma for Coker. And he's not playing it right.
Just by leaving Strikeforce to join the UFC, Jake will increase his appeal. It adds the soap-opera element that so many find appealing. Coker is exacerbating this inevitability by making inflammatory statements. Instead, he should downplay it and address it as little as possible, gracefully accepting Shield’s departure – putting it behind him and taking it off his organization’s radar. He should address this only by promoting a great and exciting Strikeforce world that will take shape after Shields leaves.
He’s already at a disadvantage by virtue of Shields’ win over Henderson. By continuing to play this game through the media, he only ensuring that the UFC gets a greater bang for its buck.
MRIs have proven that my brain is in the shape of an octagon.
Too many big words in the first two lines...my brain hurt
lol
On being champion - "The best thing that’s come out of me being champ is I got a chance to meet Beyonce, so I’m happy about that. That was my lucky day, 7/7/07." - Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
totally joking...
you’re right though MMa MaMa…He’s already lost Shields…why fight it? Why promote him by talking about him? Next time they ask this question, simply say (in JayZ voice) “On to the next one…”
On being champion - "The best thing that’s come out of me being champ is I got a chance to meet Beyonce, so I’m happy about that. That was my lucky day, 7/7/07." - Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
He’s already at a disadvantage by virtue of Shields’ win over Henderson. By continuing to play this game through the media, he only ensuring that the UFC gets a greater bang for its buck.
I think if I’m not mistaken they have the option too match any offer, and might be trying to keep the dollar lower so they can? Playing the media agaisnt the UFC?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Jesus, he can barely close his lips over those chompers. I'm suprised he can find a mouthpiece that fits.
Anyways, Jake is not as boring as most make him out to be. He can finish. He should fight the winner of Thiago/Fitch for #1 contender in the UFC.
I'm always right, even when I'm wrong.
agreed BNF
and he dominated the guy that was specifically brought in to beat him, fighting at a higher weight class than he should be in to boot!
Yeap.
The more I think about that win the more impressive it becomes to me. And if Dan Henderson can’t knock out Jake who at welterweight will be able to?
i think shields should be given the winner of kos/gsp
no need to screw around with anyone else, he’s earned it
~
imo, jakes already ‘eanred’ a shot at gsp..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup, Shields isn't as boring as a lot of people say. He does hit like a girl though.
"You made your decision, now live with your decision"
~
ive never understood the shield hate that goes on here… i been following jakes career for some time now..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed stink
I bag on his stand up sometimes and that he calls out GSP when resigning with strikeforce, but I said that to his face too, and he agreed!
Did you tell that to Nick Diaz also Kev?
He like to call out GSP and I even heard him mention Anderson on a couple of occasions.
Pretty sure he's been talking about fighting GSP for longer than a month.
Not sure his reaction will be the same as Jake’s. Good luck with that.
good luck with what?
and I’ve seen him say it in one interview.
I didn’t say it to Jake until he said it 3 or 4 times and then signed an extension
Don't keep a notepad so can't pull it up
just laugh a lot when he does that.
Good luck with the fact that you might piss him off.
There are obviously different ways to say the same thing.
I don’t think that I would walk up to Nick Diaz, in any setting, and tell him “quit calling out GSP and Anderson if you aren’t going to sign with the UFC”.
Maybe more like a “any chance you’ll privilege us by signing with the UFC and challenging GSP like you often say you would like to”
lol
you’re assuming I’m a moron. Obviously I wouldn’t walk up and say it like that, but in a conversation, why wouldn’t I ask him? You really can’t call out guys you can’t fight and expect no one to ask about it!
Moot Point
Dana won’t sign Nick until he ‘plays the game’
Not like Diaz has been taken to free lunches by Dana like Shields
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Jun 18, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I seen that
With Jake possibly coming and Nick’s brother already here sounds logical
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Sure that came with the
‘he must play the game’ disclaimer. Never seen him come flat out and say he wants Nick without mentioning that
Could be wrong tho
A burning passion from a burning mass reaches up for the sky
by Shoguns Hairy Forearms. on Jun 18, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
~
for sure, kev!~ jake is as layed back as it gets.. he knows his flaws just like everybody else knows.. yet the funny thing is, he hasn’t been beat in his last 14 fights.. he’s on a terror right now…
what really stumps me is when people say ‘jakes boring’.. i highly disagree with that.. in his last 15 fights his only boring fight was mayhem… aside from his last 2 fights, he has finished all 12 before that.. unbelievable how peeps could call any cracie fighter ‘boring’..
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
*gracie fighter
ceaser gracie, esp
so what if im not the smartest peanut in the turd!~
by stinky~fingers on Jun 18, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the Q&A with Chael Sonnen
in its entirety the other day and he gave very high praise to Shields, basically saying believe the hype because he is that good.
He's mowed through
Dan Miller, Yushin Okami and Nate Marquardt in his last three fights.
Fuck Brizzle T
Jake is going to the UFC... Y??
because thats where we want him to be! There arent any good fights left 4 him at strikeforce.. jus face it, Strikeforce (excluding Reem and Fedor and maybe a handful of other fighters) is like College MMA
You dont have to like me.. but you WILL respect my opinion! Jon Jones Cannot be Stopped! and neither can Anderson SIlva! Cain or Dos Santos??
Well
Sounds like Coker has just given up on the situation if you ask me. Now one of his top WW/MWs will be joining the UFC by the end of the summer. Jake really has earned the top money too especially when he beat Hendo. As for any potential UFC fights, give him two fights before a title shot: winner of Condit/Hardy (it’s on for UFC 120 possibly) and then the winner of Fitch/Alves. Perfect opportunity to show case what he can do.
Sounds good.
Jake won’t beat Fitch or Alves though. I really don’t see him hanging with any of the top MW’s or WW’s. He’s a good fighter but he doesn’t have the stand up to hang in the MW and possibly the WW divison. Anderson would wipe the floor with him. Nate would wreck him as well. GSP and Jake would be a boring 5 rounds. But I guess we will have to wait and see.
About five years ago Jake tapped Fitch in a submission wrestling match
Him and Fitch would be agrappling showcase, not to many fans like the grappling matches but this would be a classic and both have grown much since then and the question would be who has improved the most. I doubt either knocks either out a tap or decision win.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Dec
I think out of the top WW’s that would be a fight I think Jake could possibly win. But I still think that Fitch would grind it out for the SD. I am not really a fan of Fitch anymore since the whole I won’t fight you ordeal with Kos and Swick. But he is a tough fighter. I personally like watching fights that go to the ground. 5 years is along time but I would rather see that fight than Shields/GSP.
What is Jakes X factor?
The snooze factor, the gay factor, the I can’t finish a fight factor…oh wait a minute, thats gsp’s twin brother!!! Just kidding, ya’ll know I’m a gsp fan, and hope one day soon Gsp fights like we all know he can.
"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one." - Clint Eastwood.
" But where he is going to end up, who really knows? "
I know….hes going to the ufc
The Red Wings will come back stronger
RESTORE THE ROAR 2010 Detroit Lions
i still cant believe he recovered from hendersons flash knock down / ko
the same one bisping took but he didnt get up……had jake stayed down things would be very different.
if the UFC marketing machine pushes Shields to the public as this mythical
submission master he COULD become a draw later on. If he continues to sub/control his opponents he should end up fighting GSP for the belt sooner rather than later.
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