Chuck Liddell's trainer heartbroken; No longer wants to see 'Iceman' fight
by MMAmania.com on Jun 16, 2010 10:46 PM EDT
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Quoteworthy:
"I don't think there's too much to talk about. I think we both know what he's going to do. I won't speak for him like Dana [White] did. I'll just say I'd rather he not do it anymore.... If he's gotta do it I'd rather be there looking after him than someone else. I don't think it will come to that. I think he's good right now. I think he's in a good place and obviously wishes he won. But he's a very successful guy that's accomplished a lot in and out of the cage, and he doesn't really need this anymore in any way. I don't think he has anything to prove.... The thing that made him the most famous, richest, most exciting superstar in the sport also can come back and haunt him ... all the game planning went out the window and the warrior in him took over. He dropped his hands, took his chin up and started swinging for the fences. That's the way he went in and that's the way he went out. That's just him. Looking down at him cut like that, broke my heart."
John Hackleman -- the long-time trainer and friend of former light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell -- concedes that it's finally time for his UFC Hall of Fame fighter to hang up the gloves. Liddell, 40, suffered his fifth loss in six fights, getting knocked out cold courtesy of Rich Franklin at UFC 115 last weekend. It was the fourth time in those five losses that he ended up on his back, staring at the lights and wondering what the hell went wrong. Hackleman suggests that the "warrior" nature of Liddell is likely to blame -- no matter how much game planning, conditioning or drilling he did prior to the fight, he quickly resorted to his aggressive (and careless) self after just a few minutes of action. "Iceman" has yet to make an official announcement on his retirement; however, with Hackleman, as well as UFC President Dana White (again) telling him the party's over, he may listen this time around. Will we hear him say goodbye this weekend at The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 11 Finale or will he drag this out as long as possible à la Brett Favre?
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Hackleman is the main reason why chuck never evolved.
Instead he chose to sit up and lolligag around at the pit. Though he accomplished so much, I can only imagine what Chuck could have been if he trained with quality partners and had a strategist.
Big Nog for Life
Inventor/supporter of "Gleison Tibau to Featherweight" movement.
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jun 16, 2010 10:57 PM EDT reply actions
I partly agree
But the guy clearly cares, and that level of loyalty is hard to find.
Also, Chuck did look evolved in that last fight, his chin is just gone =\
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
to say his chin is gone is just lame ignorance.
his defense is just not there ! it’s not his chin, it’s his all attack mentality not caring about defending himself, any fighter who went out like that would get ko’d.
people think a guy looks great because he can throw hard explosive strikes, but that’s just half the story of what a fight is about and what any sport is about, great defense is the most important thing and it sets up the offense.
gli azzurri !
I think they marketed him so strong as a ko artist against grapplers that he thought he could win every fight.
by just being a tougher and harder striker.
gli azzurri !
I aint trying to pick a fight,BUT
Chucks chin is long gone…..Back in the day you could of hit Chuck across the face with a ball bat and he would of smiled at you then ko’ed a fighter
I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy
Big-dawg hit it right on the head!
Chuck ALWAYS fought that way. He never worried much about defense because his chin was harder than anyone in the business, and he could take a shot from anyone. On top of that, hardly anyone could take a shot from him. The problem is that if you fight that way for probably 15-16 years (including his kickboxing and pancrase fights), eventually it will catch up to you.
by naturalshadow on Jun 17, 2010 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions
his chin may not be the same, but that has had no impact on the outcome.
in any of his last fights. he’s gotten old and when u get old u need even better technique and defense to compete and Chuck just ain’t got it, that’s why most oldies get a more defensive spot in the lineup in other sports.
also chuck’s chin being harder than anyone in the business? HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Am i writing with focking Dana White? that’s a huge load of BS especially since he fought and won over 90% unskilled soft punching grapplers in his career, without that brawling mentality.
gli azzurri !
Very good points on all of your posts in this thread, Roberto.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Apparently you never saw the shots he took from guys like...
Overeem and Mezger back in the day. They both hit him with huge shots that would have KO’d just about anybody, but Chuck turned around and put both of them out on the floor. In the first fight, the only reason Rampage couldn’t turn out Chuck’s lights was because of his chin.
by naturalshadow on Jun 17, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what?
So, you are saying that him now having no chin has had no impact on his last 4 KO knock out losses, when he had no KO losses prior to that?
I get it you don’t like Chuck Lidell, let’s not let biases blind us to facts though.
When you take someones strength and turn it into there biggest weakness it’s going to have a profound effect on their abilities.
Obviously, he needs to try and work around it, and it looked like he did get a better technique this time around with Franklin, but when average shots to the jaw take you down you can’t really compete anymore, regardless of technique.
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
I like Chuck
but don’t let idiocy and ignorance cloud your judgement. Rich Franklin did a better job of moving his head and countering, if Chuck would have landed clean on Franklin’s chin i’m sure he would have went down.
no fighter has their chin as a strength, these aren’t brawlers from the early 90’s who just go out there and have a shootout .
any fighter in the UFC gets knocked out when they get hit at the right spot at the right time. it’s just that an overwhelming % of the fighters are better at staying calm and moving their head. I’m not even sure if Liddell had his eyes open, it’s clear he didn’t see Rich’s punch coming.
gli azzurri !
rampage didn't land clean on chuck in their first fight.
holy crap, Rampage had very little technique back then his hooks were sloppy and they came from all over the place. Rampage didn’t get his body behind them if he did like he learned to do when he came over to the UFC it would have been lights out back then for Chucky no doubt.
Also it’s the punch you don’t see coming that’s gonna knock you out, Chuck’s been caught in exchanges in his last UFC appearances against tough guys who were willing to throw back and in some crazy way Chuck’s been more impatient and willing to brawl with age.
gli azzurri !
shaiz what technique? don't u see what i just wrote? his defensive skill is absolutely horrible.
you don’t see Anderson Silva fight like that, do you ? and the answer to why is because he knows just like GSP does that if u get hit clean at the time and place your night is over!
gli azzurri !
I did
His technique was improved, he was changing levels, that ankle pick was great. New and improved stuff from Chuck.
But you’re right, when he smelled blood he went back to his reckless ways and left him self wide open, as usual.
I’m not saying his defense is great, I’m saying it hadn’t hindered him previously, his defense was always negligible, but his chin used to withstand the blows he took, now they don’t.
His style and success hinged partly on the fact that he can withstand blows, now that is no longer the case he can no longer compete at an elite level.
Fighters slowly lose physical attributes they relied on that made them the fighters they were, obviously; that doesn’t mean we should retroactively diminish there previous accomplishments.
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
You are right about his defense (defending his face) not being there
but the same goes for his chin. I believe he solidly lost it in the Evans KO. He always kept his hands down but was able to deliver the blow before his opponent did. Guys lately have been beating him to the punch and he obviously now can’t take one.
I think it actually started with the 2nd fight against Rampage.
In the first fight Hackleman actually threw in the towel because Rampage was pounding him, but he couldn’t put Chuck away. In the 2nd fight, he caught him with a fairly hard shot, but everyone was surprised when he went out. Even Rampage thought he didn’t hit him that hard. I think whatever he (an Wanderlei for that matter) was left in the octagon after their epic slugfest.
by naturalshadow on Jun 17, 2010 5:58 AM EDT up reply actions
NNR I disagree
Chuck is the reason Chuck didn’t evolve, Im positive Howard Davis doesnt teach Chuck to strike that way.
i mean though Davis may be the greatest amateur boxer of all time
but i bet it’s damn hard to undue more than a decade’s worth wrong and bad striking teachings from a karate teacher.
Big Nog for Life
Inventor/supporter of "Gleison Tibau to Featherweight" movement.
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jun 17, 2010 8:04 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Totally Disagree.
I don’y see how you can blame Hackleman. MANY FIGHTERS, especially fighters stick to what they know or what they would instinctively would do. It happens in boxing OFTEN.
Did you see Oscar De la Hoya train with Freddie Roach? Did Oscar follow through with all the instructions? NO.
Unless you know what’s exactly going on in The Pit, then I seriously doubt you know what your talking about. Howard Davis was brough in from ATT to tighten up Liddell’s striking. He said that Liddell was doing everything correctly during training. When he got in the ring with Shogun, ALL THE TRAINING WENT OUT THE DOOR.
The blame begins and rests with Chuck Liddell.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Jun 17, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions
It breaks my heart to see him like this.....
www.facebook.com/djpullout
www.twitter.com/djpullout
www.myspace.com/djpullout
www.djpullout.com
AIM = djpullout
info@djpullout.com
LOL...ya its heart breaking...oh well, retired a millionaire
Fedor invented a language that incorporates Sambo and Kimuras.
So next time FEDOR is kicking your ass, don't be offended or hurt, he may be just trying to tell you he likes your hat.
LOL. Must be terrible to retire with a decent amount of $$$ and having skanks offer sexual favors. I wouldn't mind getting KTFO for that!
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on Jun 17, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
NNR I agree to a certain extent
But something was said in this quote alone that sort of contradicts the theory that its ALL on John Hackleman. He said..“plan went out the window”. You can’t force a fighter to do what you want him to do. Chuck can train with the best in the world…John Hackleman can bring in the best fighters and coaches…but Chuck is going to do Chuck and that’s going to get Chuck KTFO.
On being champion - "The best thing that’s come out of me being champ is I got a chance to meet Beyonce, so I’m happy about that. That was my lucky day, 7/7/07." - Quinton "Rampage" Jackson
All Hack, Chuck had nothing to do with it.
Give me a break, Chuck hasn’t trained with top guys, had strategy, or thought for himself outside of training with Hackleman. What are you smoking? His insight goes far beyond your observation. He trains fighters himself. He has just lost to a three former UFC Champions at a time past his prime and you attack his knowledge and work ethic. he is also astand-up fighter so if he loses chances are it will be by KO. You are an way off on your call. Should he have gone for a sub when he is one of the top strikers in the world.
Chuck Liddell is the greatest light heavyweight champion the ufc has ever had! Alot of credit goes to the bonnar/griffin fight for launching the ufc, but chuck was also part of that along with keeping people intrested for the above reason, the man is a fucking warrior who fights because he loves it, no bs about money ever, no giving out ala rampage, he just goes out their to give the fans their moneys worth!
Hopefully Big Nog will learn
Hopefully….i really dont want to see him ending up like Chuck getting KO’d by shots that in the past wouldnt have even bothered him, with that said more then likely NoG will go back out there and fight again possibly even a few more times its clear Big NoG just like Chuck dont have that speed/chin/reflex/recovery they once had.
If you dont like drugs then dont do them.....give them to me!
i dunno chuck looked like he had it all except the chin and recovery
SHOGUN SLAYED THE DRAGON! Hell Yeah
by Phenomenal Angel on Jun 16, 2010 11:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Dont compare chuck to bret farve
Chuck never said he was done…
Favre is a douche who retires every year then comes back..
Not the same
"The Red Eye Jedi Holds a 7th Degree Black Belt In BongHitsu"
Iceman...
He’s a true legend of the sport. I can totally sympathize with him not wanting to hang up his gloves. He loves to fight, unfortunately his chin isn’t on the same level as his physical ability. I was so bummed out about him getting KO’d like that. MMA is different than other sports because you getting to know these fighter’s on a different level than other sport’s athletes. So when one of your heroes loses, it’s not that they lose a game, they actually get hurt. It’s been hard to watch him over his last few fights getting KO’d by shots that he was taking no problem during his previous fights. Thanks for all the great memories Chuck.
The greatest lhw fighter ever
The first true legend of the sport to retire its sad seeing him go, if his chin was still there he would still be a force even tho his power and speed has decreased also.
I just hope to see......
Chuck a lot outside of the cage because the sport would just not be the same without him around.
I wish Randy would retire also and join Rogan and Goldie for main events.
It sucks to see him go out like this with three KO’s in a row but atleast we know he went out on his sheild and gave tha fans what they paid for, great knockouts win or lose. U alwayz be one of if not tha greatest LHW’s MMA has ever known Chuck.
by MikeCezzy on Jun 17, 2010 6:14 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Never evolved?
I disagree with that, he clearly improved his skill set throughout his career just relied on his main assets when he was in there. Reason being he was winning all of his recent fights except the shogun and rampage fights, it’s pretty obvious what the problem for chuck is…the chin no longer is resilient! In fighting that’s huge!!! No it’s not his skill set as I think we saw on sat a fighter that mixed it up fairly well in the fight jst dropped after a weakish punch!
Totally agree that the rampage and especially Evans ko’s have took it out chuck.
On a brighter note he’s been the most successful mma star to grace the planet, and also the most exciting bar none!! Hail the ICEMAN!! Ps enjoy the candy:)
by the real mo on Jun 17, 2010 6:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
We have yet to hear what Chuck has to say
It seems as though everyone else talks for him more times than not
Fedor invented a language that incorporates Sambo and Kimuras.
So next time FEDOR is kicking your ass, don't be offended or hurt, he may be just trying to tell you he likes your hat.
Yeah, I noticed that Mac,
I guess he doesn’t want to say the words, “I retire.” If he does, I wonder if he would be all emotional like the NFL guys get at their press conferences on ESPN. Probably not but that would be an interesting side of Chuck to see.
If anyone should be in the movies as a tough guy or buddy action flick it should be Chuck as long as he doesn’t have to carrry the dialogue. Just have him pipe in with the hardcore one liners and let the camara focus in on his fight face…….pretty bitchin!
always borrow money from a pessimist, they won't expect it back anyway!
by WarriorSaint on Jun 17, 2010 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe Mac should determine that since
I was addressing him
always borrow money from a pessimist, they won't expect it back anyway!
by WarriorSaint on Jun 17, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
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