Pat Barry: Cro Cop hasn't fallen off -- everyone else has gotten that much better
by Jesse Holland on May 3, 2010 11:32 AM EDT
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Quoteworthy:
"Cro Cop, since the beginning of my career, has been one of my top five favorite and most dangerous fighters of all time. Just the fact that I get to test myself against him, one of my idols, obviously I must be doing something right to be given this opportunity. I'm just gonna swing for the fences and see what happens. My brother and I used to sit around watching him in K-1 saying 'I hope I never have to fight this guy, ever.' He's the same Cro Cop. He's as deadly as he ever was. The only difference is, instead of him falling off, everyone else has had no choice but to get that much better."
Pat Barry talks about facing his idol, Mirko Filipovic, when the two kickboxers meet inside the Octagon at UFC 115 on June 12 in Vancouver. The stocky New Orleans native made some noise in his Zuffa debut at UFC 92 when he creamed Dan Evenson into a TKO stoppage via punishing leg kicks. Though he slipped up against Tim Hague a few months later, he returned to form with a TKO win over former training partner Antoni Hardonk at UFC 104. He's obviously got hype for his showdown with Cro Cop, but can he get the win too? And do you agree with his assessment of the former PRIDE star?
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I think Barry has hit it on the head. CC has plateaued and the other HW's have evolved (minus the age factor). Anybody know if its possible for CC to go down to LHW?
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
oj
I don’t think it’s possible with thos redwood trees called legs that he has.
The Pain Train's in full steam ! ABM's look out.
by PSYQO78 on May 3, 2010 12:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He would literally have to cut off a leg.
But seriously, phyqo78 you are correct.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
hahaha
Thanks drakon102 :P
The Pain Train's in full steam ! ABM's look out.
by PSYQO78 on May 3, 2010 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha nice.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
I bet he could make 205 if he was committed . . .
but I think he’s stated before that he’s not interested in cutting weight. I still think he can compete in the HW division, but he’s never getting back in the top 5.
"Before I do anything I ask myself, "Would an idiot do that?" And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing." - Dwight Schrute
dunno about him making a healthy cut to lightweight
might be a bit much on him…
on a side note… that pic is fucken hilarious… lmao
How much does he weigh? About 225?
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Wow says here only 220.
http://www.ufc.com/MirkoCroCop
205 should be a possibility.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
What do you think? Good idea for him at 205? I see him breaking into the top 10 @ 205.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Even though it says 220,
I would say he is probably closer to 230 in non-fight shape. 25 lbs for an ‘older’ fighter not used to cutting could be a HUGE mistake. That said, if the cut doesn’t completely drain his power, he could be top 10, but I don’t see it happening.
The world is a dangerous place to live - not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein
I like it.
But Cro Cop don’t so it won’t happen.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
Hewilllnever drop, it is the honour and pride he takes in fighting in the H/W division that keeps him there.
All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed.
Agreed.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
That, plus him falling off....
jk I love CC. Hope he does well this weekend.
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
Well duh, whatta think I'm stupid? lol
My bad………….
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
LoL I had to double check myself
after reading your post. I was like Cro Cop is fighting this weekend??
I actually thought he was.
Now I am sad. Thanks leerage for ruining my day lol
Oh, yes, Meg, yes-yes yes, everything was going swimmingly for you until this. Yes, yes, THIS is the thing that will ruin your reputation, not your years of grotesque appearance, or your awkward social graces, or that Felix Ungerish way you clear your sinuses, no no no, it's THIS. Do you hear yourself talk? I might kill you tonight.
im just throwin down coin on whoerever the underdog is
Crocop is too streaky to be guaranteed.
Streaky gitch.
3 SF title fight decisions is somehow "embarrassing garbage", but 3 UFC title fight decisions isn't?
by daniel worby on May 3, 2010 11:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cro Cop is a Pride legend
but his reflexes and punching power have diminished greatly…A prime Cro Cop walks through Kongo and JDS…..not sure what he has left
Cro cop doesnt do so well against guys with enough technical knowledge to stand with him.
Wand doesnt’ count.
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on May 3, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah thats the biggest thing now days
The training for all fighters is at the highest levels were back in Pride there was only a hand few of fighters in the HW division that had training like all fighters have now. CC doesn’t move well in a octagon and hasn’t found hist style in the octagon wich is his biggest problem. Barry is right about fighters now improving as in any sport especially at a early age the atheletes and training evolve. You take CC from Pride against CC now it would be a clsoe fight
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Have to disagree with Barry
Cro Cop isn’t the same; if fighting is 90% mental as almost every fighter claims; then there’s a huge difference between the CC competing in Pride and the CC you see today. He’s got a completely different attitude in his approach. Add to that the physical detoriation that all professional athletes experience throughout their carreers; Cro Cops stamina/accuracy/reflexes aren’t what they used to be, he’s aged, he’s no longer in his prime, he’s got a knee surgery behind him now as well, I don’t see how people can sit here and say he’s just as good today as he once was. That simply isn’t the case. Barry’s making a weak attempt at selling everyone that he’s up against the best Cro Cop to date; in turn making himself look better, I don’t buy it.
The guy started fighting professionally in 1996 at 22 years old; he’s 35 years old now, that’s 13 years as a professional fighter in a combat sport and everyone is human and experiences detoriation. Professional athletes usually hit their decline at this time; of course there’s variance dependant on the individual but when it comes to CC you can compare footage and see the difference. He’s just hit that age and that point in his life where he’s past his prime, the reflexes aren’t what they used to be, his mentality has changed; he’s no longer fighting to put food on the table. All I can say in closing is
Get real Barry; you’re not on the same level as Mirko in his prime.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
The world is a dangerous place to live - not because of the people who are evil but because of the people who don't do anything about it. - Albert Einstein
So does this mean...
You think Barry will win?
I want to fuck.... I want tooo fight, with Chuck...here. FUCK CHUCK! - Wanderlei Silva
5-6 years ago I would said no way...
Today all I can say is, I’ll be rooting for Cro Cop and I really don’t know who’s gonna win.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
"You think Barry will win?"
If I had to bet, I can see Barry winning this, yes.
I will still (and always) root for CC though.
I think it's more the octagon than his injury or age that have caused CC more problems
Right now besides Fedor none of the best fighters in the HW then are doing anything now, not being in there prime is just a excuse made by hardcore pride fans I was one and I can tell you the evolusion of MMA has grown greatly. NOG and gracie were great at taking punishment and pulling off subs but the technique and training against these guys has grown. A in CC’s case he no longer one of the few KO artist as there is many combined with the octagon and injury was too much for a man with such a predictable gameplan.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
not saying he did but you never know(i am a fan of CC)
Maybe the UFC drug testing could have alittle bit to do with it aswell.
Open up the Shit Gates and where the Hell was Marv?
Well it's not like he just became shitty overnight anyway peaple try and put it
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I don't think it was roids...
and there is no proof he ever took roids.
But I do think his declined did happen over night. I even know the night. 4/21/2007
After the GG fight he was never the same.
Very true SD.
CC lost something more than just the fight that night, but I will still be rooting for him at 115.
But a true champion, face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies. - Kenny Powers
Me too....
Always rooting for CC.
Still, he’s just not the same intimidating fighter he used to be.
Barry is hyping it up, but in reality, CC has declined. No rip on Barry. He’s a cool guy and is respectful to CC.
that was a great head kick by GG
Not only did it KO out CC but it ripped his knee. I still feel CC has not adapted to the octagon and even the CC from the past would have problems in the octagon.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Arguments can be made...
That the GG head kick on Crocop was the greatest KO in MMA history.
1) It was THE signature move (the most noteworthy sig move in MMA, probably) of one of the greatest HW’s of all time, used against him. Shot with his own bullet.
2) It was a head kick that resulted in knee damage. Herb had to unfold CC on the ground.
3)A career changing strike to an all time great. CC had just won the Pride OWGP and clowned an 6-0 prospect in his previous fights leading up to this, not to mention this was a #1 contender fight where the title fight was winnable for Crocop. This changed the course of his career .
4) The most dynamic standing head kick that I can think of. It just looked amazing. The guy on ESPN said, " Hey, he just kicked that guy in the head!"…I don’t think he had seen much MMA at the time.
Still, I will always root for Crocop.
Yeah it made GG famous
But I stilol feel CC isn’t as good in the octagon as the ring, his movement changes and being pressed against a cage is much different than agaisnt the ropes.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Sure...
GG elbows set up the head kick.
Crocop had not faced elbows in Pride and shooting in a ring is not the same as shooting in a cage.
A rule change does effect a fighter. Randy would be totally different in a ring. So would Brock.
The Results are varied
Both Rampage and Shogun have both made it to the top of the ladder in the UFC. Nog has experienced some success as well before his last loss to Cain. Hendo had mixed results but was very competitive at the top of the division. So to say none of the Pride fighters have done well in the UFC wouldn’t be a fair assessment, and other than looking at past fights vs more recent performances I don’t see how else you’d assess when/if a fighters reached their waning years. I don’t think CC’s gameplan or the “evolution” of the sport has anything to do with his losses; his better days are just behind him and after 13 years of fighting there’s not much more you could ask from the guy anyway.
“not being in there prime is just a excuse made by hardcore pride fans "
For some fighters it’s not an excuse it’s just a true statement, it doesn’t have anything to do with being a pride fan. Fighers like Page, Shogun and Hendo have all climbed to the top. Nog even took an interim belt at one point. You can only judge individual to individual and in CC’s case at 35 years of age with 13 years invested in combat sports; he’s definatley past his prime.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It comes down to who adapts as fighters evolve
Some fighters rise some fall thats like any other sport and CC has no answer to todays fighters it’s naive to say the old CC would beat JDS or GG. Fact is he is no longer among the best regardless of opinion for what reason. I watched many Pride fights and there were many easy fights for the HW’s at that time as even Coleman was a top ten and his game remains much the same now as it was then horrible endurance but raw power.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I never said CC would beat JDS or GG if he was in his prime
My point was from the beginning that he is not currently in his prime; if Pat Barry thinks he’s fighting the same Cro Cop who won the OWGP or even the same CC that fought Gonzaga for that matter; he’s delusional.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I will say it for you, OD. A prime CC can beat JDS or GG. BOOM!
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I think if he’d got JDS in his prime it would’ve been epic.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW - nice posts in this thread, Professor OD. Time for you to put out a fanpost with them writing skillz, bro.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Currently working on an MMA highlight that I'll post when I'm done
but I’m lazy so it’s taking like 10x longer than it would for the average human being. I think the lord gifted me with the amazing ability to procrastinate much longer than the average joe.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on May 3, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent analysis, OD.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
+1millon Guru
I want to fuck.... I want tooo fight, with Chuck...here. FUCK CHUCK! - Wanderlei Silva
- 1 million.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It's easier for some to think there hero went down hill instead of thinking others just got better
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
How about this? GG had a great leg kick (credit to him). Does GG beat CC 9/10 times? I don't think so. Does JDS "run over" a prime CC? It would be arrogant to say yes to that. No hero worship here.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Or maybe Crocop did decline.
“It’s easier for some to think there hero went down hill instead of thinking others just got better”
It’s actually easier for an upstart to say that Crocop is as great as ever when he is about to fight the guy in his 36th MMA fight (after 20+ K1 fights…. almost 60 fights). If Barry wins, for him to say that he would competed like Crocop in his prime is just foolish.
As for JDS vs Crocop in CC’s prime…considering how sluggish Crocop looked against a non striker in Perosh the following fight and that the JDS fight was 180 seconds from a decision, I would say a prime Crocop would be way more competitive against JDS.
After my initial post, I have determined that to be the case as well. I have changed my mind based on the content in this thread. CC has been on the decline.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
by OJR on May 3, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
oh and Cro Cop is not anywhere near what he use to be.
So Pat good luck you better win.
Open up the Shit Gates and where the Hell was Marv?
crocop just got old and slow.
the young guns are too fast for him.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood". Hell is just a word, the reality is much much worse." Event Horizon". Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean, I mean plumb, mad dog mean. cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live or win. That's just the way it is. "The Outlaw Josey Wales".
by wolfmanshowlforever on May 3, 2010 7:43 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah there is more athletes in the in MMA now more than ever that is for sure
And when guys like JDS are faster and hit harder it makes it tough. Combine that with a knee injury and fighting in a octagon were I feel CC looks more at home it made a tough transition but the man has heart and ability none the less the question is can he change his game enough to effective now?
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I don't think he can every be effective enough to fight for a title
And I am a HUGE CC fan.
I would like to see a Crocop v Randy fight or something like Crocop v Kimbo, though. He isn’t ever going to get a title shot agin, so they may as well do fun fights.
No I don't expect so either
Kongo, Yvel, NOG and GG are fights I still seeing having a chance at he did get to the third round against JDS. I would love to see him fight AA, Hendo or even Werdum outside the UFC. I doubt the UFC will let him go he still is a big draw for a non top ten HW.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
Well I can agree with you there SD.
All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed.
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