Does Anyone Blame Greg Jackson For GSP's Inability To Finish A Fight?
by holdin_ropes on Mar 28, 2010 9:50 AM EDT
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I think we can all agree that UFC 111 was filled with fantastic, exciting and compelling fights. However one fight which seems like it didn't live up to the hype was the main event, which featured Dan Hardy going up against welter weight champion George St. Pierre.
I was one of the many maniacs saying that Dan Hardy stood a snow balls chance in hell against the might of the French Canadian. However I also predicted that GSP being the stronger, faster, more athletic, better grappler and better technical striker would bring this latest threat to his title reign to an end in swift, spectacular and dramatic fashion.
As we all know that didn't happen. My question though is why? Some may say GSP did his part by sinking in two near fight ending submissions which Dan Hardy impressively weathered. But is this enough for 25 minutes of complete domination against an opponent that a lot of people considered not worthy of a title shot? GSP has come on leaps and bounds working at the Jackson camp, especially with regards to his wrestling. But why did Mr Jackson want GSP to stay in guard where he was obviously doing very little damage? I'm starting to wonder if all these advanced game plans are really as productive as people think. Would it be unfair to suggest that these pre-planned tactics and strategies are taking away from that creative spark that GSP exhibited on his rise to fame. So maniacs are these "great game plans" actually restricting GSP's freedom to do what his instincts dictate? Maybe but maybe not, after all Bones Jones seems to still have kept his spark while following instructions, so what is it then?
GSP can fight however he wants whether it is on the feet or on the mat, but why is he not finishing his fights as convincingly as his title holding (best P4P) counter parts such as BJ Penn or Anderson Silva?
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Damn Right
Listen to the BS advice that the corner was giving him. It was a dominant performance, but if you want to be remembered for as a legacy, then you need to start finishing fights. Hardy wasn’t going to offer anything up for GSP to be concerned with so I can’t see why his corner was telling him to avoid the mount or taking his back until the end of the round.
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Yeah that was ridiculous...
Don’t pass guard until there is 30 seconds! What was that about? Does Hardy even have a submission game at this level? He really did not do much damage from the guard of Dan. He looked good while he was passing and going for subs. I am not saying the fight wasn’t a dominating performance, because it was. I just don’t think if you are trying to solidify a legacy, that is the way you go about it.
"90 percent of the game is half mental"
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Greates Of All Time legacies, which GSP seems to want, are not built on cautious decisions, no matter how dominating they are.
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Legacies are built on wins, title defenses and cleaning out the division. When GSP fails to do that, then you will have a valid argument.
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Anderson Silva is unbeaten in the UFC and has six straight title defenses and two KO wins at a higher weight class. The only decision win in the bunch was that debacle over Thales Leites, who refused to engage. Proving that you can take an inferior opponent to the mat time after time while doing little to nothing with top position and numerous dominant positions is a complete waste of talent. If he doesn’t want to beat people up and finish them then he needs to find a career somewhere other than the Ultimate FIGHTING Championship.
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Wrong
How about the AS – Cote fight as that too was a joke. Cote is no threat and AS didn’t do much there but run around the ring and shoot the odd jab here and there. AS isn’t without his faults either…..
Hey - who cuts your hair?
Cheech Marin - Up in Smoke
by hairybumcrack on Mar 28, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
He looked to be in sparring mode to me, slower than usual, i think the hype got to him.
first off GSP is an explosive dominant wrestler taking advantage of his physical advantage in every fight, he is not a super technical striker with real KO ability like Anderson Silva and he is not a super BJJ guy like BJ Penn is.
It was obvious to me that GSP wanted to finish with a submission and he kinda forgot to fight and punch, he ended up on his back 2 or 3 times because of his will to end the fight with a sub… Greg J told him to stay in his guard and use GnP, GSP however didn’t follow orders and did the same guard pass and looked for submissions over and over.
there's still something so unifying about sport in it's purest form, when athletes rise above themselves and touch greatness and in doing so remind us all that we also have greatness inside of us.
Hmm...
Well a trainer’s top priority is for their guys to win fights, not put on exciting fights for the fans. It would have been silly for GSP to keep it standing for extended periods as this would have played into his strengths. As for why the told him to keep it in guard I figure the motivation was to keep GSP in a dominate position where he could “grind it out” John Fitch style. It seems in one of the past few GSP fights that Jackson at one point told GSP to stop going for subs because he may have attempted one and it nearly put him in a vulnerable position. Does that sound familar to anyone or am I making that up? Regardless in one sense the camp is doing its job but on the other hand as a fan I’d like to see more action on the ground. I enjoy ground fighting and didn’t find the Fitch, Alves, or Penn fights boring at all even though they largely took place on the ground because GSP seemed much more active dropping elbows and reigning down powerful punches that did a lot of damage whereas I didn’t see that so much in this one. I dunno maybe they weren’t that different after all and I was just expecting a TKO in this one. Though if you look at Fitch’s face after his fight with GSP it’s obvious a ton more damage was done there…
by Captain Ernesto on Mar 28, 2010 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
the reason is that Hardy is beeter than expected
Fedor invented a language that incorporates Sambo and Kimuras.
So next time FEDOR is kicking your ass, don't be offended or hurt, he may be just trying to tell you he likes your hat.
i agree
I didnt expect for hardy to have that kind of decent defense on the ground. Although he was taken down at will by gsp, he avoided much less damage and escaped the almost fight ending sub attempts. Hardy definitely impressed me with his toughness.
One judge gave 50-43 and the other two 50-44 right?
Certified domination.
"He's in trouble, I'm telling you right now."
- UFC Welterweight Champion George St. Pierre on Dan Hardy's hopes.
I did mention it was 25 minutes of domination.
I was hoping that the article made it clear that this was not a question of GSP’s dominance, but more about the lack of damage inflicted and not being able to finish the fight.
In short it was a dominant but still dissapointing fight considering expectations. I mean when a guy apologises to his fans about his fight performance it says it all. That is what I meant by less than stunning. But maybe I should of worded the title a bit better.
by holdin_ropes on Mar 28, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
We agree that it was dominant, but less than everyone certainly expected including GSP. Why would he even offer up an apology right at the end of the fight even after hearing the score if he himself knew that he could have/should have done better.
Hey - who cuts your hair?
Cheech Marin - Up in Smoke
by hairybumcrack on Mar 28, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Dominant wrestling and position yeah, but he didn’t bust him up with any strikes. He could have and should have done much more with the oppurtunities and positions he had.
there's still something so unifying about sport in it's purest form, when athletes rise above themselves and touch greatness and in doing so remind us all that we also have greatness inside of us.
I think one guy had it 50-45
which to me was the right score. A 50-43 means that one guy gave George two 10-8 rounds. I just don’t see that. Judging is still suspect but they did get the winner right.
It’s a pretty good indication when a high level BJJ guy like Rogan is almost vomiting from the armbar and Kamura attempt. How the hell did Hardy’s arm not break or shoulder tear right out? By my count GSP had at least two good Kamuras, 2 good armbars, 2 or 3 straight arm locks, an arm triangle, and two leg locks. Most high level guys are lucky to get a chance to do 2 of those in an entire match against a game grappling opponent (which Hardy is training with Eddie Bravo). Total domination, but I too was suprised it wasn’t finished.
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I am sick of this!
Yes, I think Greg Jackson’s camp is lame. Rashad, Jardine, GSP, Marquart, and so on. It is obvious that GSP has the skills to work out these games flawlessly, but I think we are starting to see that the lesser skilled fighters in his camp are meeting there match with other fighters that don’t play that game. For example, Jardine is on a loosing streak. Rashad could do nothing with Machida because he’s so talented that game plans don’t seem to work on him. And Rashad also almost fu##ed it up with Thiago Silva if anyone watched the third round. All in all, none of the Greg Jackson fighters have a very well rounded game.
GSP was less than stunning?
He was amazing as always. Dominated every aspect of the fight, never got himself in trouble, and (in theory) had five 10-8 rounds against a dangerous opponent.
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
the jackson camp is a bit over rated
The success of fighters depends much more on the drive & passion to improve IMO
It's a combo of both
Just cause you train at a good camp doesn’t mean your going to be good, but if you have the talent like GSP and Carwin you will.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
I would like to hear what Jackson has to say for himself before forming an opinion.
'How's taste my pee pee pee?'
Confused..
I was seriously surprised that GSP’s corner didnt tell him to let his hands go in the 5th round, Hardy was much more tired then and was leaving holes open in regards to his striking…
by Mississauga MMA on Mar 28, 2010 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Gsp is awesome.
But I don’t know why he doesn’t seem to finish fights. He’s strong, atheletic, skilled. Maybe you’re right. Maybe he is following the game plan- keeping position and staying up in points. Not a bad thing, I mean a win is a win. But, I was kinda hoping to see Hardy get knocked out.
GSP went for the finish and should of made Hardy tap twice
It was amazing that Hardy was able to escape.
"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson
^^ this
"Why am I here? Why does my mind have wings? Why do blue midgets hit me with fish?!" - The Tick
i was at the fight and about fell asleep during this fight. gsp dominated it yes but it was soo boring. he didnt really do shit the whole fight except the two subs. hardy had little to no damage at all. his game plan was to take him down, lay on him till 30 seconds was left in the round, and than do something in the last 30 seconds. gsp shouldn’t be in the talk of p4p. its anderson silva or fedor.
GSP is the p4p best wrestler, but he isn’t close to being the best in striking or in bjj.
there's still something so unifying about sport in it's purest form, when athletes rise above themselves and touch greatness and in doing so remind us all that we also have greatness inside of us.
he is also the p4p best athlete probably, so not so shocking that he is a great wrestler which requires more physique than any aspect of the game.
there's still something so unifying about sport in it's purest form, when athletes rise above themselves and touch greatness and in doing so remind us all that we also have greatness inside of us.
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