UFC Quick Quote: Heath Herring calls out Dana White and Zuffa for unfair treatment
by James Kimball on Feb 14, 2010 1:58 PM EST
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"I really don't care too much for them, and I don't think they care too much for me (Dana White and the UFC ownership group).... They've got their guys they want to push, guys they want to market. Randy Couture, Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir are the guys they want to push and market. The problem is if you're one of the guys who's not one of their favorites, they want to keep you out of the competition.... I'm trying to make money for myself, feed my family, and these guys are trying to do everything they can to make it impossible for me.... With the way the UFC's pay scale is and as much as it costs me to get ready for a fight, at the end of the day I made like 40 grand.... If I was getting a little more money and it was worth my while I'd get back into fighting. But right now I'm making more in movies. I've got to look out for number one as far as that goes.... These guys are literally making money off our blood, sweat and tears. We don't get any health insurance. If you get hurt training for a fight, you're screwed. It's really kind of crazy.... Dana White's got six Ferraris. Hell, I just want one."
-- UFC heavyweight (for the time being at least) Heath "The Texas Crazy Horse" Herring had some choice words for Dana White and company when he spoke to Fight Night Radio on ESPN 1080 about the current state of his mixed martial arts career. Herring, who hasn't fought since UFC 87 when he took on Brock Lesnar, puts the blame for his recent inactivity square on the shoulders of the Zuffa brass. We've heard these types of sentiments before from unhappy fighters, and we'll surely hear them again, but does Herring have a point here or is he just looking for someone to blame for his declining MMA career? Does Dana White need to do something about the UFC's pay scale or is that just an uphill battle that is too steep to climb right now?
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Well..
…maybe if you were a better fighter……..
One would think when you make it to the ufc that you should be good enough to have insurance.
by mayhemike on Feb 14, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
3 rds. in a cage with Brock Lesnar. Distanced Big Nog last time around. Wins over guys like Vovchanchyn.
Yeah he really sucks.
Herring doesn’t suck, but you know how it is. You put in some bad performances with the UFC and you’re gone. Against Lesnar, he didn’t seem to be anything more than a grappling dummy.
Still faired better than the guys he mentioned
Didn’t see Couture or Mir make it 3 rds……and Mir got lucky in the first fight.
Hey - who cuts your hair?
Cheech Marin - Up in Smoke
by hairybumcrack on Feb 14, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Did I say that?
Let me re-read what I said……..and no I didn’t say that. I was agreeing with Herring as he stated the truth.
Hey - who cuts your hair?
Cheech Marin - Up in Smoke
by hairybumcrack on Feb 14, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Herring will beat the snot out of Mir if he comes into that fight in the type of shape that he was in when he fought Kongo!
Herring is a very crafty guy that is very difficult to submit. who has ever submitted Herring besides a Jits GOD like Nog?
all Heath did was speak the truth. Its insane that the UFC doesnt pay their insurance…If I was a fighter like Heath who isnt a mega star, I would take a movie over a fight in a heart beat…was the beating Brock gave him really worth like $40 G’-s? Fock NO!
exactly john g
why get mangled and your orbital bone caved in, in a fight that was made in the hopes of you getting destroyed for 40k, whe you make more and stay healthy in a movie?
the more fighters do exactly what heath is doin right now the more it will benefit them down the road.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
40k per fight clear?
and thats probably for a loss. fight 3 times a year cimbined with a couple win bonuses and your doing very well by comparison to 95% of the people out there. you win you make money, you lose you make movies.
yep and those 95% arent in professional sports
now of the ppl that are, they’re getting fucked the worst by fa, hands down, no doubt.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
i got a broken arm last year.
i will need a surgery later this year. why arent you all crying for me? broke it 3 years earlier. missed 2 months in the middle of those broken arms with a bout from my chronic illness. THATS LIFE. why is it that if your in pro sports you should make bajillions of dollars? if you arent good enough to be at the top to make the big dollars get out of the way and join the rest of the world. these people are entertainers, not curing cancer.
herring is 2-3 in the ufc anyways
If he started in the ufc today he would of been released and lucky to be making the money he was after that record
because if you had a brain you'd see that the UFC are the only ones making "bajillions" as you called it.
If Heath made more money on fighting he would do it, simple as that. there’s not a “cool” factor over being an mma fighter like you seem to think, if these guys had a choice they’d join other sports in a second.
come on maaayn.
this is right wing american capitalism at its finest.
and a good old texan like herring cant disagree. metaphorically speakin, if these guys were real estate developers then lesnar is like donald trump and herring is building garden sheds. the cream rises to the top, the bottom re educates themselves. its that simple. atheletes are people, not fucking gods. mma fighters wouldnt be the first pro atheletes that needed to get back to reality and join us “normal” folks working 9 to 5
Yeah that's one of the few flaws of capitalism
Is that there is elitism that even the regular joe supports. You for some reason want to back up Dana and the other guys making millions a year, and want the laborers to suck it up and make whatever peanuts Dana wants to throw their way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Agree with Egads on this whole conversation.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
3 rounds of punishment and and gave zero punishment himself
I think most would agree they would prefer to be KO before taking a beating like Brock gave him LOL.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
waaaambulance alert!
Randy and Brock got where they are by kicking ass and by not complaining. Another thing, you get paid based on your marketability, Herring. Its a business. Since you haven’t fought since UFC 87, people are beginning to forget who you are and you have become irrelevant. I think right now you are most remembered as being the guy who got his face broken by Brock. Get some wins under your belt and work your way up, stop complaining.
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
lol. thats true, but my point was that Randy became a superstar from training his ass off in the gym and dedicating himself to the sport and this is before he went awol
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Randy and Herring are not even comparable!!
Now lets compare apples to apples Herring, Kongo, Monson, Rizzo are some of the HW that Herring should be comparing his salary too. It’s foolish to compare yourself to Brock and Randy they make the UFC money, the drawing poewr either one of these guys have is 20 times easily more than Herring would and the UFC gets money based on viewers.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Agree Puck.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
no he didnt
He wanted to Fight Fedor, and he said it was about ‘respect’ not pay.
Randy gets paid well.
Shogun lost a close decision! Everyone get crazy!
Shhhh! dont remind Randy about Fedor, i think he may have forgotten.
He would put Randy in a wheel chair anyways IMO.
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
It was about money. Don't kid yourself.
Randy’s “press conference” was full of supposed facts and figures regarding his pay, or alleged lack thereof. Remember? It was a big enough point that Randy decided to air his monetary dirty laundry. The problem was that the UFC came right back with the real figures, and made Randy look like a fool. Eventually, Randy saw reason.
by MMACrossfire on Feb 14, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
he left because of the offer they made to Fedor...
Randy always made a lot of money in the UFC.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
I'd say you're the one that needs to stop complaining
Since you haven’t fought since UFC 87, people are beginning to forget who you are and you have become irrelevant.
I’m pretty sure he’s commenting about those fights back then so i don’t know what you’re going on about, he tried to come back one time but got injured and found that it wasn’t worth it anymore as he wasn’t making enough money, nothing weird about that just the truth.
come on maaayn.
I don't see how 40K take home is something to complain about for his calibure
and for the amount of viewers he draws in. I think thats far from the truth Roberto many fighters ranked higher would trade him spots salary wise.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
When you only fight once/year, 40K is your annual salary.
May sound good to the guy in his twenties and renting a house with 4 buddies. But for most, 40K/yr is nothing to write home about.
40K just to fight once is huge for his calibure DJ
Like most fighters they have the opportunity to do little scenes in movies and get paid for sponsors on top of everything. And on average most fighters can fight at least twice a year why would the UFC or SF pay a fighter not to fight?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
40k sounds nice until he got that doctor bill for his broken orbital bone. 40k gone now
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
They cover everything that happens inside the octagon.
You know that Enzo. They just don’t cover training, as they shouldn’t. If they were to cover training, they would have to put guidelines and shit into what you are allowed to do.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Uhhh…. this is so wrong. You do realize there is far more people making less than $40k/yr than making over $40k/yr.
Just BE.
And thats take home when everything is all said and done
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
And the majority of those making < $40k/yr are watching the Daytona 500 right now!!!!!
I prefer F1.
Hey - who cuts your hair?
Cheech Marin - Up in Smoke
by hairybumcrack on Feb 14, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
you do realize being an mma fighter isn't living a normal life
he’s making more money on other things where he’s sure to get a paycheque without having to bust his face wideopen.
come on maaayn.
I don't know I think there is many of us that would gladly take those chances
With and opportunity to make 40K clear. As there are fighters getting paid much less in SF, Dream, WEC and the UFC that are willing to step in the ring what makes Herring so special?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Herring is special because he got the chance to put things into perspective.
he’s out there making q movies and still making more money than he did fighting, and he was supposed to be a “proffessional fighter”
come on maaayn.
herring special*
what makes him that, is he isn’t a bitch and he’s telling it how it is. You say you’d take this opportunity and once you’re there getting beat up daily, working out daily, and paying your team etc, your tune may very quickly change.
the reason Heath said this is because it’s true. You wonder why not many fighters do speak up? It’s because they dont have the movie offers etc to fall back on. So they suck it up and get stiffed.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
ever heard of income tax?
He has to still pay taxes on that money. There payed as independant contractors, so that 40 grand is untaxed. You realize how much he actually took home? Probably around 28k. Call me nuts but I can think of a lot better ways to provide for a family then getting beat on. Its not the fight alone that destroys these guys bodies.
by LOKIE on Feb 14, 2010 4:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Exactly
My local Tim Horton’s manager probably makes that much and doesnt have to train like a gorilla or get his face cracked open. 95% of these guys are underpaid for how popular this sport has become.
by captainStevo on Feb 14, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Write-offs
He doesn’t have to worry about that much being sucked out in his end f year taxes because like you said he is considered an independant contractor. That means every single thing he spends money on is deductable. Gym fees , training expenses, etc. If he is smart that is.
And Roberto, he isn’t special and certainly doesn’t have things in perspective. He knows what career path he chose, the risks that are involved and after this long in the sport, knows all the incidentals that go into living the fighter’s life. He isn’t guaranteed anything and it is his job to do what he can to make himself successful. If that means switching camps, coaches, training philosophies, nutrition, it’s his option. His option is also to not be a fighter and get out there and be a 9 to 5’er. Have fun trying to get that 40k check then. If he wants to make movies instead, fine. But just like in MMA, there is nothing he is doing there that will make me spend my hard earned money based on his involvement on a ticket or viewing.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 14, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
so what?
i dont understand why you guys think that just cause he makes sponsor money etc, that the UFC should now be forgiven for not paying accordingly.
Sponsor income is completely irrelevant to this.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well, UFC is the biggest stage. Since they are providng the most exposure maybe Zuffa should take 50% of the fighters income from sponsors… Irrelevant?
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 14, 2010 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Right
The UFC should take money that those athletes make on sponsorships even though they’re the reason the UFC has those sponsorships. That makes a ton of sense Mayhem, that must be why all the other sports leagues do that right? Nope. As Worby said, it’s irrelevant.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Do you think without an outlet for people to see these fighters, they would have high paying sponsors?
Zuffa could just say “NO logos on any clothing leading to the cage”. They have that right. Don’t pretend the fighters don’t owe the UFC for getting them the sponsors they have.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Well
They did start at that path and realized that a lot of their fighters were pissed about it. If they dont have happy fighters, then they dont have an orginization
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly Enzo....
People try to act like it’s not reciprocal. “Oh, if it wasn’t for the UFC, the fighters wouldn’t be able to do this, so they owe the UFC.” Whereas just as easily you could say, “If it wasn’t for the fighters there wouldn’t be a UFC, so the people writing the checks should take care of their employees better”. Using the mentality that some of you guys use Dana owes the Gracies for coming up with the original concept of the UFC. If they hadn’t started it, and Dana didn’t have billionaire friends he’d still be teaching boxercise classes.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Dice, you commented on otehr sports leagues and their involvement in sponsorship. The NFL, NBA, MLB don’t let their players alter their uniforms with personal sponsors. There are rules of presentation for them to compete but off the fields, they can participate in ads and appearances, etc. Fact is, UFC allow it as an additional revenue stream so it is relevant. Similar comparison is auto racing. And while I don’t know much about the pay structure for their racers (i.e. if NASCAR gives health insurance; I would bet dimes to dollars they don’t). What is the key there….if they finish at the front of the pack, they get paid more. They get more to win races but it also gives them that stage for more pay from on-car ads.
If you don’t want to see that as an apples to apples comparison because they are driving cars, they have as much risk of serious injury as fighters flying 100mph+ with thousands of pounds of metal to crush them. They have incidentals, the things they have to due to get race ready. And the amount they invest in themselves is what will allow them to be better.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 15, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
In response to the Gracie comment
Those initial tourneys were winner take all. At least initially. I don’t know at what point all guys started to get paid for involvement. Royce would get one of those gigantic checks at the end and that was it. The point for the fighters was they fought for the pride of it. It wasn’t a business, it was a sideshow. The Fertittas reached into a toilet and pulled this thing out and made it a success off their investment, losing alot of money at times while working to make it work, through regulation, through PR,etc. They are more than fair with their athletes and also deserve their slice of life.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 15, 2010 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
40 k is nothing
when you’re fighting for the UFC.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
He made 140K for fighting Kongo and Brock
After everything is said and done I guess he’s left with 40K? After taxes I’m assuming he is left with around 100K then he must need to spend 60K to train?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
140,000 is too much for this bum for two fights
He was being over-paid if anything.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
140,000 a year?
i dont think thats too much at all. two fight camps, prob. roughly around 20,000 each leaves him around 100,000. sure it seems like a lot to some people, but I dont think it is. sure its his career choice so he shouldnt bitch about the pay, but when he’s making more money doing movies nobody will ever see i think he has a point.
I do a lot of jacking off, ya know, because I don’t get no women, so these arms are, like, humongously big. See it’s workout, and it’s pleasure.._" Charles Bennett
"He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day and looks like a ***** today." -Tank Abbott.
Do you think HH is at a camp that charges him 10,000 every six months?
You can’t make up numbers to make a point ppwwpp.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Roberto,
When your a fighter and you are training for a fight and you get injured you take time to heal up and then you train for another fight when able to. Everyone in the UFC does this. They don’t just give up and quit. If Herring got his head on straight he could make his way up to the top and begin to make the big bucks.
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
That’s would be a bit naive of him to think like you suggest he should, when you’re in your 30’s with a family at home you have to make money. He had an option and went to making movies where he’s obviously making more money as he stated in this interview.
they tried to give Cain a name by feeding Heath to him, he was on his way out anyway.
come on maaayn.
What does that say Roberto
He’s worth more in the movies than fighting is how I take it. How about a normal job? I gaurantee he would choose fighting over a 40 hour a week job and thats only if he fights once a year. He’s lucky he has the option thats for sure most fighters that don’t make the cut have to go back to the real world and find jobs like the rest of us.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
he is lucky he had the option to make more money elsewhere and that’s why he’s able to comment on his UFC days, the interviewer obviously asked him why he hasn’t returned to fighting and he gave a straight answer from his perspective.
come on maaayn.
considering how much money the UFC makes they should pay the fighters a ton of money.
they are insanely greedy, even going into the UAE now i mean give me a break they do that for one reason and one reason only to make more money, will the fighters get more money? hell no.
come on maaayn.
That could be true now
I have no idea how much they make but as far as fighters around the world make Herring is more than getting enough. I know the UFC is paying a ton to get the UFC global if this a reason or not I don’t know.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
man puck just think about it
we’ll use rounded up #’s so its easy:
ufc gates attract about 1 million – 2 million each card, which means the fighters total salary for that night was strictly made off of ticket sales to the event. thats it. fighters all paid now. check back on the 21st and read for yourself what they total for pay out. its always very close to the live gate income.
Now lets consider the #‘s of PPV sales. they usually do a few million of those right? Lets say 3 just for shits n giggles. 3 mill x$50 = 15 million. all straight to UFC. Now you’ll say they dont get all that PPV money. Maybe true, but lets not forget the movie of the week thats always displayed on the mat, bud light ads running non stop and plastered thoughout the cage etc, Trust me UFC is makin a pretty penny off that as well.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
and putting on productions are free right?
goldberg/rogan get paid in beer. camerman and setup crew get paid in tapout t-shirts. theres the marketing team, accountants, mail room people, secretaries, etc etc are all volunteers. and even if there are paid employees they only work on fight nights right? no permanent full time year round staff? come on. now im not saying that there isnt some extra cash to be spread out but these guys do make some decent money. if the ufc is so crappy why are these guys dying to come there? why arent they all trying to get in to SF/M1.
the UFC, as far as i know, have never gotten 3 million buys ever. i believe ufc100 was barely over 1 million.
Thanks Egads
You seem to at least have an understanding of the bigger picture and what’s involved to make everything happening.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 14, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
How many times have people tried to explain the UFC pay scale?
Daniel, when has the UFC ever done 3 million PPV buys? UFC 100 was the record event and it almost did 1.5 million buys. Most UFC events do between 300,000 and 600,000, surely you know this?
Zuffa is making a lot of money but they are the ones who own the product. If you don’t like the way Zuffa pay their fighters quit buying their products. Go and be a SF fan exclusively. Have fun waiting for 2 months between shows.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Cmon Jay… people can have an opinion without you just trying to shut them out on everything they write. The bottom line is that the Zuffa organization can handle paying their fighters better. It is that simple. It wont even make a dent in their extremely deep pockets
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
LOL
He totally fudged the numbers to make a point. I countered his point with the actual numbers. If that shuts his point of view out completely that is his fault and not mine, right?
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
You are right to an extent
I am going further tho. Even with your numbers, which I do believe are more accurate, the validity of the argument is still valid
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
wrong
I agree with what your sayin. But 50x 3 mill woul 150 mill. The highest grossing pay per view 500,000 at 45 bucks a pop. That’s. Still $22,500,000. Now puck head tell me when is the last time they did less that 500k buys. Numbers don’t lie, the ufc is greedy
by LOKIE on Feb 14, 2010 6:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
damn cell phone
The highest grossing pay per view was ufc 100 and it did just over a million buys, and ufc 66 also broke a million buys. But look at the numbers for a ufc that does 500k buys. Its insane
by LOKIE on Feb 14, 2010 6:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ufc 87
did ya read the article??? he says they dont make any effort to put him on any cards.
its really quite astonishing that there is still ppl out there that take dana/ufs side on this topic. its not a debate. its a fact.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Fact? how? its a one sided story
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
this isnt a one sided story on what im referring to
this is a HUGE professional sport that doesnt pay accordingly when speaking of their income.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
What other MMA org pays better? Please tell me
Are you talking about boxing? where HBO pays the main event fighters millions of dollars each? That money isnt coming out of the boxing promoter’s pockets.
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
do you guys just read half what i type?
tenth time. the other leagues dont make what ufc does. we all know that.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Do you take into consideration the fact that just being able to call oneself a UFC fighter opens so many more doors than being a SF fighter or some small promotion fighter? I bet if you compare the sponsorship and movie opportunities for a No. 5-10 UFC fighter and a 5-10 SF fighter, it’s not even close.
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
It wouldn't be quite as bad if......
the fighters were allowed to fight under other promotions at the same time! They could make more money! Obviousy, this isn’t feasible for the UFC! So, if you want to make a fighter fight exclusively for your organization, you should see to it that he/her and his/her family are at least comfortable and tprovide insurance for the fighter! I know the UFC has very high overhead costs! But at the end of the day, Dana and probably 10 others involved in the company are individually making more money annually than every fighter in the UFC’s annual salary combined! Now, they deserve high profits! But, they’re not leaving enough meat on the bone for the people who are earning all that cash in the first place…….the fighters! There needs to be insurance at the highest level of the game! And that’s exactly what the UFC is, the top! But, corporate greed doesn’t start or stop with the UFC!
by Dana's a Crossdresser on Feb 14, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
I for one as a paying fan am more than happy with the quality and quantity
Of MMA action the UFC provides me. Clearly most of you don’t understand MMA business and shouldn’t concern yourself with it. Please someone tell me wha tthe UFC can afford with facts, do any of you have facts on what the UFC makes and can share? I din’t think so, so please stop talking like you know what they can afford.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
I just looked up heath's pay day for UFC 73
Heath Herring – $70,000
UFC Lightweight Championship
Sean Sherk – $14,000 + $14,000 win bonus
……..he got paid more then the champ when he lost the fight and the champ won and he still complains…….at ufc 82 he earned 140 000$ the same amount as anderson……heath herring is gettin paid like a champion if he wins and he should recognize this and just be glad with having a job with zuffa after being 3-2 in the ufc
I agree that it is better than other fighters. My point is that I feel it is crazy for someone to make only 24000. That isnt crap…. plus Sherk had to spend that on steroids alone… Little off topic humor there :) haha
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
No but I can read mofo and there in forbes magezin!!!!!!!!!!! Lol. Are you really going to argue the UFC isn’t a billion dollar company? Hell they were on CSNBC and being praised for the BILLIONS. They have made
by LOKIE on Feb 14, 2010 6:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The US government is a trillion(s) dollar "company," and it's still borrowing money.
Just because a company has taken in $X doesn’t mean that it can piss away $X. The UFC has (i.e. pay for) a small army of staffers, they rent (i.e. pay for) venues, they market (i.e. pay for) shows — TV spots, radio spots, online spots, billboards, posters, and now big screen spots, they pay their fighters, etc. They pay people to lobby state governments for sanctioning, on and on. They pay hundreds of millions to keep the wheels oiled so that you and I can enjoy the best MMA events available on the planet.
Let’s face it, Keith Herring is a gate-keeper in the UFC. Let him go to Strikeforce. He could fight Bret Rogers. That would be a great fight. I’d watch! As it stands, he can’t really hang with the big boys in the UFC. He’s get killed by JDS. He’d get pwned by Cane, Carwin and the new improved Big Nog. Lesnar would make minced meat out of him.
by MMACrossfire on Feb 14, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Great post, Crossfire.
Now explain it to the simpletons who think everything they bring in is pure profit.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
That is a good post...
I never said (and I dont think this was directed at me) it didnt cost money to make money. Their profit is enough to pay their fighters alot more and they can still drive fast cars and live in mansions too
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
A lot of the fighters have done that.
Do you think the top guys aren’t getting paid? Guys like HH aren’t because they bring nothing to the table. They pretty much make the company zero dollars.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Thats not true at all. They make Zuffa tons of cash because people want to see a beating taking place somewhere. They dont care who it is really. I dont think he should be paid top dollars.. I just think they should be paid more… thats all
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Luckily for the fans of UFC
Guys like you and Daniel aren’t running their business. Guys like you ran Affliction.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Oh please Jay. That is just stupid. Are you really going to try and say negative remarks directly at me because I dont agree with you? Am I typing degrading remarks towards you? Are you the icon of a keyboard warrior?
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not being negative toward you.
I’m not saying you are a douche like the guys from Affliction. I’m just saying your way of doing things wouldn’t leave a lot in the coffers in case of emergency. You guys are only thinking about the fighters, you should be thinking about the fans(since that is the group you reside in).
I really don’t care what these dudes get paid. As long as there is a company making all the right moves to insure I will be able to watch fights when they say I am going to, I will be happy.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Enzo. I really meant no disrespect in any of my posts. At least not toward you.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
If you are calling the people that ran affliction in the ground a douche bag then clearly state that people like Daniel and I are like the douche bags… then I take that as you calling me a douche bag. Oh well tho I guess.
If it was the fighters in my org that made me the money, then I couldn’t go without thinking about them. If you dont care what they get paid, then why are you arguing with me because I think they should get paid more?
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Because I trust the Zuffa brass to pay them what they are worth.
I can’t tell you what GSP made for his last fight, but if he signed the contract he must have agreed with it. And if he bitches after he signs, that is his own problem. If HH isn’t happy making 40 thousand to get beat up, move on. Is someone holding a knife to his throat at sign ups?
He has the choice to join the real world like the rest of us. Or he can do what martial artists had always done before the UFC came along…teach or act or body double for stunts.
They choice this career when the money was far worse, don’t feel sorry for them.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I agree with that for sure
I do agree that they made the choice to accept the offer. That is on them for that. I do think that they should have negotiated for more money, but its kind of a lose lose if you dont accept it. Then you get paid nothing at all.. have to get what you can. I still feel that they could be a little generous tho
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Me too, enzo.
But when they are all getting rich off one fight, what motivates them to become better fighters? I like the fighters being hungry and needing to win to make the mortgage payment.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I agree with that too
Im not saying that every fighter deserves to get paid like GSP or Brock. Fighters like those guys fight for something other than money. The lower onesneed to get a chance tho. Pay them well, then if they cant perform, give them the Hendo. Seems like a fair and honest plan of attack in my opinion
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I feel 140,000 for two fights was too much money for HH.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Im not arguing with just HH in mind. Im talking about as a whole
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I can't speak for fighters as a whole.
But some deserve more, some deserve less. It would depend on who we are talking about. But that goes without saying. All sports have people I think should be paid more, or less.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
well said jay and may I add like many other companies
In the world there are underpaid employees and overpaid employees. If any company gave their employees what they thought they deserved they would go under, Affliction ring a bell anybody?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
haha once again
the arguments are the same on both sides still…. I do agree tho. I just think that some are way too underpaid… and some are way over paid as well…
They dont have to pay them what the fighters think they deserve… they can just pay them something fair…. seems totally reasonable in my opinion
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
And do you know what "fair" is?
I would like to know what a fair wage is? If Heath wins his money doubles if he loses he only takes home after taxes and everything is said and done 40K!! That is pretty fair for his calibure and drawing power infact he’s overpaid if you ask me compared to fighters his calibure.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Agree
And if all the fighters get more money they won’t need to go to autograph signings and things like that. That is a major reason why the fighters are so accessible in MMA. They still need to interact with the fans for some of their money. Rich fighters are less motivated fighters IMO.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I wonder how Heath got into the movie business hmmm?
I think being part of the UFC would of helped
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
I already stated above what I think it fair
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
Not really.
There have been statements that they should be paid “fair” and they should be paid “more”. But just as an abstract. What is defined as fair? Fighters are being paid more, but it seems nothing is enough. The Affliction example keeps popping up. Will it take the UFC going under to finally say, “I guess they paid too much”? That seems to be the only end game in the argument for fairness.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 15, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
As so called "Fans" of these fighters, it's funny that so many defend the UFC on these issues like
not providing insurance for the fighters! Look up any payday you want and you can easily find medical bills that could mount up to be a lot more! Especially where surgery and extensive rehab are involved! But, so aclled “Fans” will sit here and say fighters shouyld shut up and quit whining about these things? It’s a good thing we have fighters who are willing to sacrifice so much of themselves for our entertainment and in many cases, with little or no reward! But to those of you who are defending the UFC, I pose thESE questionS to you: Would you use most of you paycheck to go towards making YOU better at your job all the while spending half your time injured and in pain, away from your family? Keep in mind, the injuries are at your own expense as well! And the UFC isn’t the only ones with overhead! Fighters have to pay Coaches, travel expenses, medical, dietary, gym fees, etc.
by Dana's a Crossdresser on Feb 14, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
You honestly think these guys are fighting because of a sense of self-sacrifice and charity? It’s a good thing we have them…
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 15, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
What about a fan-funded insurance fund for fighters?
We complain enough about fighters not having insurance. Are you (we) willing to lay out some bread to support these fighters? Seriously. Are we just going to complain, or are we willing to do something about it? It’s a lot easier to pretend to know what the UFC actually does with its money and complain about it than it is to actually do something ourselves.
I honestly wonder how many so-called diehard fans would be willing to make a monthly donation to support professional fighters.
by MMACrossfire on Feb 14, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Ultimately, we do provide for the fighters!
The thing is, the fighters already get our money! We pay them and the UFC! And the UFC “MAKES” a lot of money off of them AND us! We’re not making anything! We’re paying! Millions of us are! So, with US spending all that money, and the UFC making all that money, They should provide insurance and livible wages! Unfortunately, the UFC doesn’t want to take a little less money and still make hundreds of millions of dollars a year!They want it all! GREED! And as far as the “Marketability” of a fighter goes, it’s true a select few can bring in more PPV buys! But, they can’t make a whole show off of just those few! The under card fighters are very important in the business too!
by Dana's a Crossdresser on Feb 15, 2010 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
And also,
it’s obvious that they’re abusing their power! The UFC is the top dog! Unfortunately, they’ve convinced too many people that that all their fighters are lucky to have made it to the UFC! When actually, the UFC is lucky to have such a great stable of fighters!
by Dana's a Crossdresser on Feb 15, 2010 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
What was PRIDE paying these same guys when they were the top dog?
I guess they were money thieving pricks as well? And they had larger audiences.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Takes balls
I really like this guy coming out and telling it like it is. Their paychecks are so small yet dana has no health care for these great athletes. There is a point where you get so fed up, you dont care if you lose your job. I commend him for standing up, kinda like tito did years back but since titos an asshole no one listened. Dan Henderson is too nice to say anything real bad, but he made his case. I hope more fighters come out and say something. These guys need to at least have health insurance, that way they are taken care of when they get hurt and lose that pay check,
agreed they need to have some kind of health insurance for these guys
Come on ufc step and take care of these guys.
Do you think
there are health insurance companies that will cover fighters? Doesn’t seem likely to me.
This.
Guess what no MMA organization offers their fighters health insurance. Somehow only the UFC gets slammed for it. If it was financially viable right now to provide health insurance for every fighter the UFC would be doing it.
To me it sounds like Herring thinks he should be making a couple hundred grand a fight win or lose and since he can’t get paid that much he is throwing out B.S. criticism. Everything he is complaining about would be the same or worse if he was with any other MMA organization.
Just BE.
Did arena league football teams provide health insurance?
I honestly don’t know, but I know the NFL does. That should answer your obvious question as to why the UFC is held to a higher standard than other orgs. They’re the top organization, and they make the most money. The UFC can afford to provide their fighters with better benefits just like top organizations in other sports. And if insurance companies cover football players I don’t know why they wouldn’t cover fighters. As far as it being “financially viable” I believe it is. Zuffa and the UFC brass are making a killing, they’re just being stingy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Does anybody know what MMA insurance cost, does SF or Dream offer this
Please shut up about the insurance there is a reason no org offers it.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Do SF or Dream make close to what the UFC does? NO!
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Which is why I talked about that in the post directly above yours
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
It might not be worth it with the amount of injuries that really occur
But if you knew how much it would cost then we can have a conversation with facts not opinions. No one knows how much it is it could be a crazt amount yet the UFC can afford it? How the F do you know please tell me? If the cost of insurance would mean getting rid of 30% of the fighters they have so the UFC has a profitable business you would still say they should get it?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
You are no more entitled to your opinion than I am mine
And unless you can refute my claims with facts you can’t claim to know more than me. It’s a joke that you claim to be a fan of fighters and don’t want them to be paid more. There are athletes in other sports that make more per game(in a 70 game season) than the vast majority of fighters make for a fight(maybe 3 a year). Seriously why would you want that. You always like to say UFC wouldn’t be around if it wasn’t for Dana, but it wouldn’t be without the fighters. That’s like stupid ass bitches that say men should appreciate women more because without women we wouldn’t be here. Last time I checked women need men to get pregnant, and Dana needed fighters to make the UFC popular. Why give Dana all the credit and money. Share the fucking wealth with the employees that make you money.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Take it easy Dice just I never said I know more than you?
This is my opinion, yes there is some fighters that are underpaid but Heath isn’t one. In every org there are underpaid fightersbut there is also overpaid fighters Shamrock and Tito come to mind. I appreciate the quality of fights the UFC brings to the table along with the quantity. We can al sit here and act like we know the UFC fianancially and who should get paid what but really neither of us know what the fighter make in total, neither of know the cost of running the business and neither of us know how much the UFC makes off PPV. Everything we say about the UFC or the fighters financially have no facts to them there just opinions and neither of us are right are wrong.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
The NFL provides insurance, and so does my company.
Is Herring willing to pay for this coverage? Does anyone know what sort of coverage they would require to cover training and competing? Does any company even offer this sort of coverage?
I doubt Heath would be willing to pay for his insurance like the rest of us. He sounds like a welfare recipient crying about not getting free hand outs.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Considering the injury rates are just as frequent...
And there are more severe injuries in the NFL, I’d be willing to bet the coverage would be similar. People act like MMA is the most dangerous sport in the world, and that there’s no way the UFC could get an insurance provider to cover their fighters, but I don’t see that being the case. The lazy welfare recipient label doesn’t work here, because he’s making his money elsewhere. He’s explaining why he hasn’t been fighting in the UFC recently, and he’s not sitting around waiting for a free handout.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
mattman
The ufc gets slammed for it cause they make the most.
all of what you’re saying is misguided. of course he wouldnt be paid more to be somewhere else. but how is it he can make the same or slightly under? do you truly think the other fight orgs make a tenth of what ufc does?
once youmake it to the NHL NFL NBA you get paid. why not UFC?
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
are you telling me no one in any of those leagues have never complained about their wages?
i dont know for sure, but most major sports have accually shut down due to strike/lockouts based almost solely on wages. everyone in the world believes they are woth more than they really are. why would a fighter be the exception. because they train 8 hours a day and fight all of 3 times a year? i do 8 hours of work and then work out after that too. whoopdy fucking do.
Right I'm sure the work you do at your job is on par with what fighters in the UFC do.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Also, when the MLB went on strike it nearly ruined baseball in America
And I called it like it was, the players and the owners were both being greedy fucks. In this case, the fighters clearly don’t make enough.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Your opinion is that the fighters aren't making enough money.
It is only your opinion. If you don’t like the pay these guys get for 15 minutes of work every few months, petition the UFC to raise the prices of everything.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Cmon jay
You know it’s not for 15 minutes of work. That’s ridiculous. You know it’s an 8-hour a day year round job to make it to that level. It’s been estimated that the fighters get 3-4% of the profit the UFC makes. If that’s the case, then no, it’s not just my opinion they’re being underpaid.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
I would like to know were 3-4% comes from Dice
Do the fighters shell out there cash to advertise themselves, Do they bring in the big sponsors, do they shell out money to open UFC Gym’s, do they invest in the company itself even? Anyway until there is facts this arguement is pointless. I’ll throw out a number that has just as much merit as your 3-4% After everything is said and done the UFC makes 60% of the profits.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Just because no one MMA org offers it doesnt make it right
You guys are crazy to just accept the norm. UFC should provide it cause they make the most money. Porn stars have it stunt men have it. FUCKEN FIRE FIGHTERS have it. A Ufc fight is soooooo much more dangerous than police men or fire fighters jobs. Almost all sports have it. Instead of typing mess about heath maybe we should listen cause he is certainly not the first fighter to point out the fucked up things with this org.
Everyone with insurance pays for it. Fire fighters don't get it for free.
Would Heath be willing to pay 15% of his 40,000$ for insurance? Or do you think the UFC should just pay millions and millions a year to cover the 250 fighters they have? Find me a company willing to cover an MMA fighter and we can find out what it would cost to cover a fighter for a year.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
WRONG.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
No. You said ALL pro teams. And NO, ALL pro teams don't pay you for injuring yourself training.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Now that is a valid point that I cant even argue with hahahaha
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I bet he would pay 15% considering he lost all of his money in one punch to the eye from Brock. That visit to the doc was close to if not more than 40k
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Covered by Zuffa
If it happens during a fight it is covered.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Is that totally true?
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Of course.
If it isn’t fixed up on site by their own doctors, they pay for hospital visits after an event. Even if you get hurt in the stands and it could be deemed their fault, Zuffa would pay to stay out of the negative press.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I didnt know that, but I respect that for sure.
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Think about the PR nightmare that Hill injury would have been
If they hadn’t covered him. They have to cover all fighters injuries in the cage, I think most normal organizations would.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
You are totally right
That actually did come to mind and I remember Dana saying something about covering his bills. I forgot about that. That is good to know really because that was one of my points about their pay. That makes a huge difference to me really
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Would you be paid for injuring yourself at home?
That is why the UFC doesn’t pay for injuries during training. These guys are off training on their own with no Zuffa supervision. They could hurt themselves doing something that isn’t approved training. There is no way to stop these guys from hurting themselves from pure stupidity.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I agree with that for sure
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
You raise a good point
But you also have to admit it’s a unique situation. I mean the training is part of the job. You can’t pretend like it’s the same as you playing a game of pick-up basketball and breaking your ankle outside of work. These guys are REQUIRED to train as part of their job, which makes it different. NHL, NBA, NFL, MLB all cover their players during training(practice). Also, if I was injured at home I would still be covered by the insurance coverage I have through my work.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
You pay for that coverage? Because I'm sure these fighters can go out and get coverage if it is available.
Or do you think the UFC should cover all 300 of its fighters for free? Plus if the UFC is covering them, the UFC has the right to say what is safe or unsafe during training.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I pay a PPO and deductibles
I also pay much less for my insurance through my company than I would if I had to get it on my own. And that’s the point. Of course the fighters can go out and pay for their own insurance but the price would be very high. If the UFC provided it(like any other major company or sports league) the fighters would pay much less.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
But the fighters would all pay? Because that sort of makes sense.
I’m sure if it were doable the UFC would have done it by now. How do you get someone to cover this sort of stuff? Who would touch this? I doubt they can get coverage, that is why it hasn’t happened yet.
Plus, how would fighters who make 5,000 pay for insurance? Training is done at your own risk, pick the right place and partners. All injuries that happen during competition are covered free of charge.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
The same people who touch the NFL
Considering the NFL has more injuries, and more severe injuries. When was the last time someone was paralyzed during MMA competition? What’s the average life expectancy for MMA fighters? NFL has the worse injuries, so I would say the UFC can get coverage. A minimum salary(one that’s livable) would help out the guys making 5k afford their co-pays.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
I would have to disagree with you
I think UFC has more injuries then the NFL. That is if we include training and fighting injuries. But, that doesn’t matter. The fighters don’t need the UFC to organize benefits for them, they are able to do it themselves. Not sure why you blame Dana for not insuring the fighters. It is their job, not his.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
The NFL is established the UFC is
no were near being established. To comapre the NFL to the UFC is naive. Do you have any idea what insurance cost? No you don’t nor do I, football is a respected sport and been established for many years MMA still has it’s critics.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Puck, you always got my back.
Seems we are usually the only people with any common sense in the room.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I have 100% coverage, I pay zero
But I’m one of the last teamsters jobs that actually is that lucky. if they are injured in the cage they r covered. It’s lke when Jenna tried to get insurance for porn stars, who would cover them for a reasonable amount of money? NO ONE, but if they are married and their spouse has a job with benefits, they are covered! I don’t get why we always have this debate, these guys chose their profession and signed the contracts, stop crying!
Mayhem Mike
I seriously hope you are being immensely sarcastic when you say an MMA fighter has a job more dangerous than a police officer or firefighter. If not, you have just become the stupidest poster alive!
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 15, 2010 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
looks like someone is getting released from their contract..
or sidelined until it expires.
I cant dissagree regarding the health insurance or that fighters who are just starting out or are considered jouneymen get paid virtualy nothing compared to the sacrifices and risks they are taking, I was comenting on the fact that he thinks the only difference between him and the guys he mentioned was the fact that the UFC market them better.
Heath Herring is a very average fighter and isnt in the same league as thos guys on the other hand when you consider how much they make compared to the fighters its pretty sickening….for the most part it seems as if the gate money pays the fighters and the PPV goes straight to the UFC (a few exceptions)
yes agreed.
Also where does the money go from the people who sponser the events?Example Bud light , Har;ey davidson. does that money go toward the prodcution, or the areana rental?
Well...
In Dana’s defense, it helps win you have a winning record with the company or put some asses in the seats. Unfortunately, Herring hasn’t done either and basically “retired” after UFC 87. He pulled out of UFC 99 (against Velasquez) and hasn’t really done much since. Also, I hear of a fair amount of the fighters having insurance so… not too sure about that one. I’ll let it slide though. There is one major thing that Herring forgot: locker-room bonuses and sponsors. Most fighters get alot more money from that than the actual fight itself.
As a fighter (which I am not) I would think I had made it if I was fighting in the UFC. Just because this guy isnt anderson silva he should still be taken care of. I know he lost a few but consider the competition. The guy steps up puts his life on the line, health, and hard work to come to a system that wont pay for a stitch?? Locker room bonuses are just that BONUS. Shouldnt expect them all the time. All I am saying is take care of the fighters. If not don’t sign them.
40K take home per fight is not enough? I seen guys get paid less that were ranked higher
If he could fight twice a year that is 80K US takehome I know families that make less between the two of them in total before taxes and have to work 40 hours a week. He’s complaining about walking away with 40K after everything is said and done after a fight!? You look at fighters ranked the same as Heath around the globe in any org he would probally be the highest paid.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Yeah how many of those people work in the entertainment industry
Where the company they are working for makes millions upon millions of dollars. Not to mention the fighters aren’t sitting at a damn computer all day, they’re busting their asses and putting their well-being on the line.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Most of the good ones are doing something they love Dice
And something millions of us would trade to do in a heart beat if we had the opportunity. Herring getting paid 40K take home a fight is not worth crying about. Let’s see him go get a normal job and then he can sit infront of the computer like the rest of us and see what spoiled bitch he is being.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
The vast majority of entertainers are doing something they love
And most of them don’t do something nearly as difficult as fighting, yet get paid millions of dollars. The UFC can afford to treat their fighters better, why the hell would you be against that? Why do you want the guys sitting in the office pulling strings to get filthy rich and shortchange the fighters? WTF is wrong with you guys?
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Exactly getting 40K takehome is nothing to compain about for one fight
Thats more money than most take home in a full year and he’s complaining about two or three months of training and one fight he deserves more? And that doesn’t include any of the perks he gets like being in movies and sponsors etc.. The UFC has what would you say 100+ fighters and put on 25+ events year WTF are you guys bitching about because one fighter is unhappy?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
You think Heath Herring is the first guy to complain?
No, he’s not, the other fighters who have spoken out have been persecuted by the UFC which is why more fighters don’t. You keep saying 40k is more than most make in a year but that’s not correct. "Adjusted gross income reported on tax returns in 2006 averaged $58,029. " That’s from the IRS. Not to mention Herring is in the top 25 in a highly specialized field. You shouldn’t be comparing him to average workers, you should be comparing him to the top 1 percentile or so of specialists. Your argument is weak, and you’re basing it on BS. UFC can afford to pay the fighters more and you’re against it. Ridiculous.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
My arguement is weak? Please tell me these fighters you are talking about please?
Your making shit up Dice. I understand you think there are fighters complaining but really you have no proof.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Couture, Ortiz, Fitch, Herring, Hendo
Not to mention other fighters that refuse to join the UFC. A lot of people like to say that Randy Couture is “Captain Paycheck” and “greedy”, but that’s just because that’s what the UFC has gotten these people to believe. Couture saw that the fighters were getting screwed. Here’s an excerpt from an article on Yahoo! Sports, “Couture claims that the organization made $250 million in ticket and pay-per-view revenue in 2007. Of that, the fighters only received $17 million. They get no benefits, no retirement plan and have no company backed health insurance.” Yeah, I’d say the UFC can afford to do more for the fighters. Of course, Dana and the Zuffa marketing team leads you to believe it’s the FIGHTERS that are greedy, and not them(who has 6 Ferrari’s). And Dana goes back on what he says about Couture being greedy and PAYS Couture. Dana didn’t like Couture bringing to the limelight the facts about what fighters were making, so he made Couture happy so he would shut up about it. Why else would Couture make $2.75 million at UFC 91? Now I listed the fighters like you asked, there’s proof that you claim I don’t have. I’ve also stated some more facts for you to consider, and I bet you still think the fighters are greedy and not the UFC.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
You said "plus a lot of fighters that won't join the UFC"
So there is fighters out there not joining the UFC because the pay is garbage? I doubt that.
You also said “Couture claims that the organization made $250 million in ticket and pay-per-view revenue in 2007. Of that, the fighters only received $17 million.”
So the fighters(guys with no stake in the failure/success of the company) are making almost 9% of the companies take? What other company pays that sort of percentage to its employees?
I guess Randy thinks all the cameramen work for free, or the venues are all free?
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Couture and Ortiz are no longer on that list and last I heard Fitch was happy too?
You still only have two fighters on that is on the list what happened with Couture and Tito were settled, and the UFC lost Hendo. Now there is only one unhappy fighter under the UFC contract? Like I said Dice in a company with 100+ employees not every employee is going to happy thats a fact of life. Is it the fighter right or is the UFC? In this case the UFC I beleive is right in the Hendo case I thought Hendo was right and deserved a title shot if he would of got the title shot I beleive he would of stayed at the pay offered. My point is the UFC is in the wrong sometimes and like this story the fighters are in the wrong sometimes as was Couture and Hendos case and then there is Tito who is probally way overpaid?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Couture is making MUCH more
than before when he left, so I would say the UFC was in the wrong on that one, no? Fitch was told to shut his mouth and was demoted to undercards, again doesn’t prove the UFC was right or that he’s happy now. Jay, you really think 9% is a high amount for companies to pay to their employees? Seriously?
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
9% of the intake, yes.
That’s 9% before paying for anything else. It’s probably around 40-50% of the actual profits.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
I was talking about the numbers in the article you posted
Randy said the UFC made 250 million from PPV and gate. That was supposed to be profit????
Are we going to take Randy’s word on a number that is never released? 250 million profit it 2007? I doubt that very much. Does Randy know what Zuffa pays all of their employees? Those office buildings aren’t empty you know.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
So the UFC agreed with Couture they worked it out
If a company wants to keep an employee they settle, I understand that if a company gives in to every fighter demand it wouldn’t be a successful company dice. It’s called business. Look at SF with Diaz and M1 with Gegard it happens everywere and will never end. There will always be unhappy employees in a large company.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
This is obviously going nowhere
When you break it down, the UFC pays a smaller percentage of profits to the fighters than most companies do their employees. I got shit to do. Talk to you guys later.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Thats basing you know what the UFC profits are
Please share this info it may change my mind. The NFL as a company makes more money than all the players combined and that doesn’t include the Money the teams themselves make. After the UFC’s investments, purchases, fighters cost in total, remember there are free events on TV and the UFC doesn’t make nearly as much as a PPV, cost of doing business in a foreign country to get the sport global……etc there is so much more than meets the eye’s in doing business than just paying the fighters and collecting money off of PPV draws and attendance Dice SO MUCH MORE. I agree there are some underpaid fighters but also there is overpaid fighters and then there are those that are satisified just like any other business I don’t think as a fan of MMA would argue the UFC = Great MMA entertainment = Happy Fans.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
UFC became a billion dollar company in less than a decade
I don’t think you guys realize just how much profit these guys are making. Do a couple of Google searches on UFC profits and see some of the articles in business publications and papers on business ethics bemoaning how little the UFC pays their fighters. You talk about all of their costs without mentioning all of their revenue(sponsors, ad spots on the free events, etc.). I’m well aware of the many facets of the business world and that there’s more than meets the eye. You guys just take the UFC and Dana at their word when they say, “Oh these guys are making enough money”. Right, because they have no incentive to make it sound like all is well. I’ve actually done some research on the topic and read up on it, and I don’t believe you have. You guys want to sit there and say “Oh it’s a business Dice, you just don’t understand” and say I don’t have the numbers to back up what I say. I’m not going to do the research for you. I’ve done it for myself, read up a little bit I’m not just pulling this shit out of my ass. Every time you say I don’t have any support to back up what I say you say something with nothing to back it up. Your whole argument is based on the fact that the UFC won’t publicly release their numbers, so there’s no way I can know if they’re underpaying fighters. Well then by your own argument, NEITHER CAN YOU. Difference is, you can look at the some of the revenue they bring in(live gate, PPV) and make some pretty realistic estimates, and by those estimates they pay shit. They started paying Couture because Couture was bringing a this same shit I’m saying to the media’s attention and the UFC couldn’t have that. It’s not hard stuff to see. I’m not crazy, seriously, read up on it a little and it may broaden your horizons.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
I personally take no one "at their word"
but I personally don’t care! How much does McDonalds make globally? what do they pay? do you call or email their corporate offices complaining that the burger boy isn’t making what you deem to be a fair wage? why not?
why don’t I care you ask? The UFC takes all financial risk. There are other mma orgs (stikeforce, dream and bellatar) that can pay. If you don’t like the UFC offer, go test waters else where! It’s like a NFL player who doesn’t like offer, he test free agency. I really don’t get why some of you care so much what these guys (who sign the contracts) make!
If this was a forum on McDonald's
and it was about their worker’s pay, I would certainly side with the workers. That’s not what this is about though. Honestly I don’t care that much, it just bothers me that people think fighters shouldn’t get the benefits other athletes do. Or when they say the fighters wouldn’t be where they are without Dana, and don’t point out Dana wouldn’t be where he is without the fighters.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Dice being a billion dollar company
Doesn’t mean they have Billions of dollars in the bank, thats just the money that has transfered through their hands. Now the UFC Profit is what facts we need to have any kind of logical debate otherwise it’s all hearsay. The cost the UFC has in employee payments, lawyers, fighter payments, investments etc.. all go towards the Billion dollars that you have read. What fighter has spent money getting MMA legalized in certain states(do you know the cost of doing this?), what fighter has spent money establishing and growing the UFC? There are so many cost involved in what the UFC is doing it’s mind boggling and Randy has stated after he realized the cost and what the UFC has done were underappreciated by himself.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
great post puck
in reality, we have no idea, it’s a privately owned company. and even if they clear 15-20 million an event (just throwing it out there) why shouldn’t they? they take all financial risk. I do agree, fighters are responsible for helping UFC be where it is today, but The ownership needs credit too, the UFC was in the hole when they bought it, in the hole big!
I agree with that
Dana and the Fertitta’s did a ton for the UFC, so props to them. The ownership and fighters alike both deserve a lot of praise. I don’t sing Dana’s praises much because so many people do too much, but I can and do appreciate how far the UFC has come.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
On Randy...
Aka: After the company started giving him what he wanted he started toting the company line. Anyway, I do agree with you that it’s all hearsay. You can’t say they’re not underpaid for sure, and I can’t say they are for sure. I’m just saying from the reading I’ve done I believe they are. You don’t think so, that’s fine. Seriously though, I’ve spent way too much time arguing this and I really don’t care that much(as much as my arguing would make it seem). It’s my day off I’m gonna burn one and play PS3. I’ll catch up with you guys later hopefully on something we can all agree on.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
I'm not saying they r or rnt
I’m saying that they sign the contract, they know if they win and impress, their pay will go up and quite frankly, I don’t care. I dont care what anyone other than me and my wife make, not my business or concern. If you don’t like what you’re making, find a new career!
good debate bro, enjoy the rest of your day off!
Sounds like a great idea Dice
Call of Duty? I think I’ll do the same, it was good debate I enjoy this and I know you have swayed my opinion a few times Dice but on this one I think we will have to call a stalemate. Later guys.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Im all for fighters getting more money
But don’t forget nobody has a gun to their head telling them they have to fight.
One thing a lot of fans don't see and understand is all the investing
The UFC is doing to make this sport as big as it posssibly can be, from all the gym’s it’s planning to open to it’s getting established at selected countries cost huge dollars, companies like the NFL and whatever don’t need to invest nearly as much to grow their sport as the UFC does.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
dice is right
just cause you’re doin something you love doesnt mean you cant get paid properly.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
did herring say he was the only one being screwed?
no. I\m sure if you asked him does he feel that other fighters are underpaid he would 100% say yes.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because of a hand full of fighter complaining the UFC is in the wrong?
Go to SF or Dream then for fuc^ sake. None of you have any idea what the UFC makes or much about how to operate their business. If Herring was worth more he would get it. Do any of you know the cost of running there business? I didn’t think so, and of coarse any employee would like more money but prove your worth it before you start complaining.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
THEY'RE ALL WORTH MORE
not just heath. i dont why you cant grasp this. and you keep saying go to SF etc, they manage to pay the same or very close somehow and make wayless as an org and you know it. how is this possible?
respect, thats how.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Wow… its not like its a hidden secret or something. Im sure a ton of them are super pissed all the time. Why isnt Hendo here anymore? What was the problem with Randy? There are others too. Its a fact that other orgs pay close to the same as the UFC and dont make nearly as much profit.
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Hendo wanted to make as much as Brock and GSP
Have PPV sales slid since Hendo left?
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Nope… exactly my point… they can afford to pay their fighters more regardless. I dont think everyone should be paid the same either. Thats not my point at all
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Who pays almost the same as UFC?
I hope you aren’t talking about SF.
OD is incredibly handsome, coureagous and self sacrificing in his endeavour to educate me on MMA and evolve my primitive understanding of the sport; I salute you sir.
Why are only a minority of the UFC fighters not happy with their wage?
Please let me know who is not happy with their pay and we can have a conversation with facts. All of them is not a answer either as we all know their are fighters happy with there salary and the UFC.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
well stop losing and you'll find you won't be complaining
I don’t think you can blame the UFC for you losing. What do you expect for them to do? Help you become a better fighter?That’s your job, tons of other people are more than willing to take your spot. Stop crying and win some fights.
I want a Ferrari too, Heath.
Christ.
What do you need a fancy suit for, Charlie, you ain't got no job to wear it to.
Yeah right!
I have a Mustang but I wouldn’t mind having a Ferrari instead but it’s not gonna happen. Dana tooka chance on a failing business and with the help of 2 friends struck gold. Good for him, he can have as many Ferraris as he wants and I won’t hold it against him.
Calu
Heath agreed to the terms. Maybe he shout call out whoever handles negotiations.
by bigc4277 on Feb 14, 2010 2:52 PM EST via mobile reply actions
That is true 40K per fight is not that bad for someone outside the top ten hell I don't know if he's a top 20 anymore?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Well if he ever fought instead of doing z class movies
We would know where he stands in the hw division.
Like he said he's making more money doing the movies
And hasn’t fought in how long? Stick to the movies Heath your a tough dude no doubt but looking at the pay scale in SF and UFC your over paid.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
and making more then from fighting
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Herring isnt a marquee guy anyway
they brought him in as the guy who punched the guy who kissed him in the ring. And he dropped Nog, but didnt take advantage of that. No one wants to see him fight anyway.
So he should have a SAG card now making movies, right? Why cant he get insurance through them .
@fjbar on twitter...formerly El Mexicutioner
These guys CHOOSE to be fighters.
I hate when these guys cry about not getting paid enough or not getting insurance when they CHOOSE to sign a contract that says what they will and will not get.
@fjbar on twitter...formerly El Mexicutioner
by _Felix_ on Feb 14, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like sour grapes.
Heath has no one to blame but himself. It’s not Zuffa’s fault he’s not a top fighter. When he fought Nog, he had him pretty much finished with that leg kick, but he let him up. When he fought Brock, he lost fair and square. Yes he beat Kongo, but he’s been very inconsistent in the UFC.
You have to be the man... you have to be very, like, alpha male with her. You know? Decide what you do and everything. So, show her who's the boss, you know? - GSP
He’s probably making double or triple what he made in Pride but he’s still whining. Sounds to me like a guy who’s on the downside of his career and he realizes it, now he’s mad that he doesn’t have more cash in the bank even though he made 6 figures in 07 and 08 while people like you and I have to live off $40,000 a year or less.
by ufc4 on Feb 14, 2010 3:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
ya because those ppl making 40k a year are definitely at the top of their company
i cant believe you guys compare some dude at a call center toi a guy fighting on the biggest stage on earth and say “why is he complaining, i know lots of ppl that make less than that?”
how are these the same thing?
and theres kids that make 5.00 a week to do chores! Heath makes way more then them! he cant complain now! :S
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
Herring is paid more than he's worth if you go by the fighters ranked around 20ish
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
he is still underpaid as are the majority of fighters
he is more concerned of himself for money then others. what a shock.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think he's overpaid but I guess you would make a better business owner paying your employees what they feel they deserve?
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Not taking sides in this particular case but in general one thing you guys have to consider with fighters is how much money it takes to be a fighter. 40K sounds like a lot but after taxes, manager takes his cut, and all the trainers they have to pay, various coaches, gym fees, equipment costs and medical bills…
Again, I’m not taking sides in this case but you can’t look at what any fighter makes per fight and not calculate the expenses that they incur to get there.
by Thomas Cunningham on Feb 14, 2010 3:49 PM EST reply actions
I gaurantee if he had a normal job like the rest of us he wouldn't be complaining
He’s lucky he can make the money he does wich is probally I would say around 150K basing this on the fact he should at least make 80K take home a year in the UFC if he fought twice.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
That’s true, but when fighters cry about how little they make they always just mention the number they are getting from the UFC (or whatever promotion they fight for), they never include the amount they get from sponsors or the various appearances, after parties, autograph signings, etc. they do throughout the year that supplements their income. I’m not gonna pretend like these guys are filthy rich or that they’re making as much as most baseball or basketball players are but guys like Heath Herring are making a helluva lot more money a year than I am so I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.
Thomas
he did state : “With the way the UFC’s pay scale is and as much as it costs me to get ready for a fight, at the end of the day I made like 40 grand….” which would leave me to presume that is what he brought home after paying all the people that needed paying.
-This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Herring telling the truth
Fuck dana and the scumbag fertittas
by Lester The Pimp on Feb 14, 2010 4:07 PM EST reply actions
you're fine lester
the other orgs pay accoridngly for what they are bringing in. and there pays will rise as the grow. not ufc’s tho thats why dana wants to smash SF now that its on the rise. he knows he’ll have to pay more if they continue to grow. so its better for him to sink them and control pay roll
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Based on????
UFC’s payouts haven’t grown? So they haven’t increased fighter contracts as they’ve garnered more viewership? I guess I am mistaken about my memory how new fighters used to come in with a 2k/2k option, then 3k/3k, 5k/5k, now mostly 8k/8k at a minimum. Or how the bonuses have gone from $5000 to 10k to 20k to, I believe, 60k most recently. Yeah, Zuffa is just raping these guys.
Worby, under your premise you feel it is fine for other organizations get to treat their fighters sub-standardly but even though Zuffa pays the most, provides the most lucrative opportunities, and gets these individuals the most exposure TO MARKET THEMSELVES, they are evil.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 14, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Good point Mayhem
There is a reason Affliction went under and I think we all know why? Because their employees were overpaid.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
If you dont like it then geeeeeeeeeeeeet out! lol
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Dana White and Zuffa have been taking advantage
Sure the sport is where it is today because of them, blah blah blah. Bottom line, they’re unwilling to give these guys health insurance, or better pay because it will cut into their, very substantial, profit margin. But the current system is only possible because MMA was lacking figher’s on the same level of popularity with boxing. As soon as a guy like Anderson Silva hits free agency, and the precedent his contract will set, we’re going to see a shift in earnings from ownership to the fighters, which is where it should be!
well, the thing is....
Zuffa covers all medical charges for fighters after a fight occurs. I.E, a fighter needs an MRI scan at the hospital after a fight, Zuffa covers it.
And I think thats pretty generous. I mean they arnt the WWE or anything.
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Herring and the UFC should have a mutual agreement to end his contract
He might realize he was getting over paid.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
I think he will be cut within a week. And lets be honest, both parties dont need each other
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
it’s not generous at all, the fighters putting their bodies through pain and fighting while Zuffa makes millions on it is generous.
come on maaayn.
i gave a brief example above
that should open your eyes a lil. and i know for a fact my numbers are being generously low.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
There is much more to the UFC business than those numbers Daniel much more
If it were that simple my 7 year old could run that business. I understand what your sayin now though and I’m not being rude when saying this but your basing your arguement off fiction and beleif rather than fact. Fact is any business that payes it’s employees what the employee thought they were worth that business would not be around to long.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
There is no fact on how much money Zuffa or the UFC makes so I'm not even going to go there
But as far as fighters across the world go the UFC pays more salaries to more fighters than anyone and Herring for his calibure is getting paid as good as any.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
agreed and well said
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Zuffa=Company, Fighters=workers
Of course Zuffa makes the majority of the money, its their business. MMA would be dead without them.
Let me ask you this..how much money does Zuffa reinvest in the company and in world wide and domestic legalization/acceptance of mma? were not talking peanuts here.
Lets compare this to real life jobs. Lets say that you are a sales man and you make your company millions of dollars every year. Would your annual salary be millions? or would it be a percent of what you bring in?
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Zuffa=slave owners, Fighters=slaves
theres no other way to describe the disparity in take home profit being made by each party.
This.
This is like people saying the NCAA is doing their athletes the right way by giving them a free education, while they rake in billions of dollars a year. Something about UFC fans and their support of a company over its workers is sickening. I can’t believe some of the shit people say.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
give it up dice....Puck will not see your point even if its crystal clear when it involves his UFC...
by candyce (formerly known as gaara) on Feb 14, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Thats right gaara I love what the UFC has done for us fans
You guys are saying all these fighters are unhappy, please state who I almost gaurantee it’s the fighters like Herring were they know there job is in jeapordy.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Was Couture or Hendo's job in jeopardy?
There goes that argument.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
The NCAA can't pay them directly, anyway, so bad analogy.
What do you know about the UFC’s expenditures? Staffers, venue rentals, tons of marketing, fighters, etc. It’s a massive machine that requires tons of money to keep running. You think they hoard the money?
by MMACrossfire on Feb 14, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
How much do you think the NCAA should pay a kid on a partial swimming scholarship that brings in no revenue? Or what about a kid on a music scholarship? Or do you only think football and basketball players should be paid by schools?
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
Well the NCAA is a business with basically free labor.
If they’re going to run it like a business they should pay their laborers. And yes, the football and basketball laborers bring in the most money so they should get paid the most. They could at the very least set up some accounts for the student-athletes for once they graduate. You look at the amount of money that the NCAA makes a year and it’s really ridiculous that they don’t do more for the athletes.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."-Yogi Berra
Sorry, I’m not going to feel sorry for some kid who gets free tuition, books, room and board, food and a monthly stipend (yes, they actually do get a little walking around money). I usually worked two jobs during the summers and a little bit during the school year to help pay for my education. They get the same thing by playing a game, not to mention the opportunity for a professional career if they are good enough and access to wealthy business-owning boosters if they aren’t.
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
LOL they get paid more than any other org or guess what they would be fighting for that other org
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Its how the business world works....
the company makes most of the money while the workers get a certain percentage of what they bring in.
Slavery? are you serious? do you know how many fighters love working for the UFC? or how many fighters dream about getting in there?
"This is a non-title fight Joe, so its scheduled for three five minute rounds" -Mike Goldberg (You mean Terry Etim and Shannon Gugerty arnt fighting for a title?)
Just cause one fighter complains doesn't mean every fighter is unhappy
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
so.....
You all know exactly how many people Zuffa employs? They have a lot more people to pay that aren’t fighters. It isn’t just Dana and the fighters. These people work around the clock it’s a normal job for them. They don’t just work when they have a fight coming up.People seem to forget about the “little people”. Fighters have it tough believe me I get that, but they sign their contracts and they choose to be fighters. Using words like “slaves” is ridiculous. The last I remember slaves didn’t choose to be slaves.
-This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
This whole arguement is retarded
No one argueing here knows anything about the UFC’s business but yet they know they should pay more? Go work for SF you guys if you know so much LOL. Like really 40K take home for one fight is nothing to cry about and because he doesn’t like his salary doesn’t speak for the other 100ish fighters on UFC contracts. As a fan of MMA the UFC has organized many great events and fights with more happy fighters than not. In every large business there will be unhappy employees who think they are worth more. Don’t judge the UFC by a handfull of unhappy fighters.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Zuffa=slave owners, Fighters=slaves
perfectly said.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Feb 14, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
There's an easy cure for that
Don’t sign the contract. That was easy huh? Slaves are bought and sold, that’s a little bit different than a guy signing a contract he agreed to.
Its not the same popularity of Boxing yet
Silva would have to lose the belt to be free agent regardless if his contract runs out or not. Silva makes millions a year and is happy in the UFC along with all his other Team Blackhouse teammates. Just cause one fighter cry’s doesn’t mean they all are. Infact by the sounds of it Shields and Gegard want to come to the UFC.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
PPV sales
If you look at PPV sales, a huge boxing event is making 1.5 million PPV buys, a UFC card with anywhere near decent main event is gonna make atleast .5 million, and probably as high as 1 million. Event venues are definitely sold out. Sure they’re not on the same level yet, but that’s damn close. However, if you were to compare the main event boxer’s salary with the main event mma fighter, its a fuking joke.
There is no structure
Boxing has been going down hill from the time guys like Don King have came into the sport and have destroyed any structure boxing had. Lets hope and pray we don’t see MMA turn int o boxing. The top boxing PPV also gain 5 times what the top UFC events do and usually on have one good fight that collects 99% of the money.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Who needs structure
Boxing must have been on a mountain, if its been going down hill for so long yet still blows UFC events out of the water, and sets records with events like de la hoya v mayweather. Do you think anyone cares if pacquiao v mayweather is for some sort of belt? No, people want to see great matchups of great fighters. In the future we wont have to deal with this BS that a a guy like fedor wont meet in the octagon against, say brock lesnar, due to the inability to sign a deal with the promotion. I know the work the UFC has done up to this point is necessary, but once the groundwork is laid, let’s make this sport about the fighters, and the fights, fuck the ownership.
Because of it's boxings past fighters are cashing in but in the future it's past(current) is going to be shit.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
UFC and MMA will take over
There is structure and only one champion in every weight class. There is the upside and downside to everything but once a boxer gets to the top it seems he doesn’t fight anymore and we as fans are lucky to see them fight once a year. But I guess it would be hard for a lot of peaple to have 50 million in the bank and really put their heart 100% into boxing.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
You just made the point against it
Anderson Silva can drive up contract negotiations and expect whatever contract he fairly earns as one of the greatest fighters in the sport, right? He, throught his personal performance, is in the position to do that. So if he can, for instance, sign with Strikeforce, because they are going to pay him more, why should the UFC have to provide him with health insurance? In this hypothetical situation he had just shown that he didn’t have the loyalty to stay with the company that provided for him for years for a higher paycheck. At what point does the health care freeze, when he leaves the company or is negotiating on leaving the company? Fact is, the individual should do what they need to do for themself. You know you are going to get hurt and need coverage. These guys should have it well before they reach the UFC level and if they haven’t cared enough about taking care of themselves to that point, I don’t see why it should start once they get to the UFC.
by Mayhem chimpanzee on Feb 14, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
They made an initial marketing push with Herring
….but he turned in a bunch of piss poor performances so they stopped. What does he expect? He has 5 fights in the UFC (2 wins – 3 losses), all of them went the distance and he looked like shit (minus about 5 seconds in the Nog fight before he let that one slip away) in every one of them.
Maybe if he put in the time, effort and dedication necessary to become (and stay) a top tier fighter he’d get the marketing push and money he wants.
2nd teir pay for a second tier fighter.
herring is a crybaby. if you want a ferrari you have to earn it.
it seems to me like he is saying he’s a sucky fighter because he doesn’t get paid well enough. please.
by Conan the Barbarian on Feb 14, 2010 4:56 PM EST reply actions
He said the truth. The UFC is business and not an organizations as it is expected. This guy can put on better shows than Randy at heavyweight divison but the Capitain America has a name in US and Heat doesn’t. How many days left for UFC give him the walking papers?
"Once Flamengo, Flamengo until die"
Sorry Cruz but there is no way he draws more money for the UFC than Randy does
Not even close.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
Sorry I didn't finish and I can't see another org giving him more money than he is getting
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
he wasn't bitching when he was taking their money was he????
yeah, i didn’t think so. this is just sour grapes. you get paid what you are worth. guys like randy who walk away get paid what they are worth to come back because they have the balls to walk away. same goes with hendo. does anyone really want to see heath herring fight????
by Conan the Barbarian on Feb 15, 2010 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
We can all agree the pay scale is screwed up,
But what really makes it worse is the UFC contracts that doesn’t allow the fighters to go make money in other organizations. I know it’s a business but theses guys have families to feed and support. I agree with not letting them fight in strikeforce because that’s your biggest competition, but Dream or even local shows should be okay. If they were able to fight in local shows they could expose the UFC brand even more. Two or three fights and if their not holding a belt. The UFC’s young guys would get more fighting experience and could develop their skills much faster.
Insurance?
Well, good news Crazy Horse. Soon enough, if daddy “O” gets his way, we’ll all be paying for your health insurance.
Get over it.
"Remember men, we are all winners in the eyes of Christ...except for the guy still bleeding on the canvass"
whiner
i didn’t read all of the above posts (i did read a lot of them)…
did Herring not notice the ton of opportunity he got that so many other mediocre fighters didn’t?
a couple years ago the UFC promoted him A TON. – again, far more than other fighters. he was propped up to be a great fighter that almost won the big ones (which was true).
he had his shot — many, many times — and still couldn’t win the big ones.
time to admit it, Heath. the UFC was plenty fair.
either step up or step aside.
I cant beleive so many people are missing this.
UFC is oozing profits and Dana swears to us that there on the track to become the biggest sport in not only america but the world. Do you think an athlete in any major sport gets nothing if they go down to injury before the fight? Do you think any of the top sports fail to pay health insurance? Ask yourselves if ufc’s payscale is more simular to wwe or nfl? All the major sports have unions and if the athletes in ufc had one they would be paid 5x more. You could defend the ufc 5 years ago but in 2010 the profits have been talked about publicly and are bigger then ever.. For ufc to get to were it wants, its going to have to compete with other sports for the worlds top athletes. They need to get guys like brock lesnar and hershal walker when there 21, not after they’ve made millions and now can afford to be an mma athlete. Do you ever think why even after making millions Brock tried out for the vikings before UFC? If things stay were they are then ufc will not get to where there telling us there going to be in 10 years. The worst guys in the nfl, nba, and mlb still get 750K a year or over a million, (even if there injured and lose a lot) and those leagues have 100’s of athletes.
Bas Rutten: He has a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Stephen Quadros: Yes, well many of the fighters
have a black belt.
Bas Rutten: Yes, but in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu you cant
buy your belt like in say, Tae Kwon Do.
Stephen Quadros: Do you have any belts?
Bas Rutten: I have a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do.
by DrewMoney$$$ on Feb 14, 2010 8:47 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Gotta agree with fretwork
That dude is lucky the UFC let him fight for them as long as they did. Herring’s just another one of those Justin Mccullys, Antoni Hardonks, Stephen Bonnars. One of those guys that everytime you see them you’re like “this dude seriously hasn’t been cut yet, WTF?”
You guys talk a lot of shit!
is he top 10? no. is he one of the best fighters in the world? yes. certainly in the top 5%.
if the ufc doesn’t start taking care of all their fighters, they’re going to have a hard time finding future talent. what’s the point of all the sacrifice if you’re only rewarded to be a top 5 fighter, and thrown out like trash if you fall short? i’m not always a fan of unions but one is definitely needed here.
Surprised those insurance giants don't consider fighting as a 'pre-existing condition'.
must be a hefty premium. unless you’re one of them canadian socialists.
(no invitation to health-care debate)
Union?
Now I’m not trying to hug on the UFCs nuts, but what the hell do you guys want them to do, start a union, yeah that would suck, it would all go to hell then,
I say if you don’t like what your getting paid, then go some where else. No ones forcing him to stay, no one forced him to sign a contract, this is just like the real world jobs, always got it in for the boss making money, no matter how much it is, if it wasn’t for the boss, you wouldn’t have the job, so he needs to quit the crying and if he doesn’t like the pay, leave, simple as that.
without reading any other comments yet...
all i have to say is, you came to UFC after I was a big fan of you in pride, you “won” against Brad Imes in a snoozefest, lost to noguiera (again), snoozed your way through Cheick Kongo, got fucked up by Lesnar worse than anybody so far, and then got injured out of your last fight at UFC 99 against (I forgot) doesn’t matter. So it looks like to me, stop fucking crying and have a good career in strikeforce my friend. Frank Shamrock should give you a big hug and Fedor too.
he's done the best against brock
how many other dudes have went the distance against brock and that imea fight was pretty exciting if u ask me.
he wasn't bitching about the pay when he signed his contract!!!!!
i’m tired of fighters thinking they are worth more than they are. shit, i can see a good fight almost every weekend for free at the bar down the street. sometimes they even add bottles and furniture into the mix.
this is just sour grapes. you get paid what you are worth. guys like randy who walk away get paid what they are worth to come back because they have the balls to walk away. same goes with hendo. does anyone really want to see heath herring fight????
by Conan the Barbarian on Feb 15, 2010 2:01 AM EST reply actions
I would support Herring...
Then again, I think its way more of an outrage that a guy who carries a ZUFFA promotion completely on his back, (Urijah Faber), was just 1 fight ago making 30K/30K while delivering live gate revenues worth upwards of $600,000 and providing TV ratings 4 times higher than any card not featuring him. Urijah should be making 150/150 per fight.
Gimme 1 round!
Those numbers don't tell everything
Most fighters get a fight salary and a yearly salary but fact is none of us now the exact numbers? To compare the UFC to sports that have been around longer than most have been alive is naive. A growing sport has much more spending to do than a established sport.
"He broke tim sylvia’s arm…...So what?" – Brock Lesnar
There was a reason Urijah was openly griped on a vid about his wages
So they obviously told most of the story. Especially when he told Dana and the Fertittas to their faces that “Maybe they could talk to the owners for him about his salary.” That little witticism shows particular discontent. You don’t go making jokes like that unless you’re pissed with the boss.
Gimme 1 round!
by ItBurnzWhenIP on Feb 15, 2010 7:49 AM EST up reply actions
that whole statement made sense....
until he said he wanted a ferrari!
i mean if you want to make more money to feed your family and what not then i support you..not to just be rich so you can afford a ferrari
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was.
duuuh.
He was saying his boss Dana could afford to have six ferrari’s, i just want one.
see what he’s saying? he doesn’t have enough money.
come on maaayn.
he doesn't have enough money...
to afford a ferrari.
cry me a river.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was.
Not sure if this has been said....lots of posts to read.
But if Heath is upset with the lack of respect for lower tier fighters……Start a fighters union then, establish a minumum salary, health coverage plans etc…
Sad to say but one day i think it is going to come down to this and there will be a fighter walkout and possibly a strike until Zuffa management caves.
I’d say within the next ten years thie fighters begin to get organized and this happens. Hope Zuffa is preparing so we dont miss any fights
Fedor played Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun and won.
AMERICA.....FUCK YEAH
hahahahahaha
Nice man.. that made me laugh
enzo-enormous
http://blog.ohsoawesome.com
by enzo-enormous on Feb 15, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
He's probably done
He’s a tough guy and definitely has a legitimate beef with the health insurance. Far as him being paid more, I don’t think he’s shown he’s worth more in the UFC. Seems like he just needs to fight more often and not take so much damage in each fight.
Herring is working of an old contract
where he makes 140k a fight if he wins, not including sponsors… Had he won some fights, he could’ve renegotiated for a bigger contract…. But say he fights 3 times a year…. and wins twice…. thats 350k purse… Not including sponsors, appearances, etc… The UFC gave Heath a big Push when he first arrived to the UFC…. he got to fight Nog, Brock, and Kongo… and also main-evented (if i remember correctly) a Fight Night vs. Jake O’Brien… But I guess the guys investing in sanctioning, and expanding the company are just greedy and evil.
I'm like PacMan fightin you silly kids... throw ya Hatton the ring, and get knocked outlike Ricky did.
lol.
Overpaid
Heath is a guy who has fought everyone. He has fought Fedor, Brock, Nog, … not saying they are everybody but they are the elite of the heavyweights. However he has nothing to show for it he lost all of them. He is pretty well the stepping stone of the heavyweight divison much like Jardine of Lightheavyweight division
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