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Programming reminder: Countdown to UFC 121 'Lesnar vs Velasquez' debuts TONIGHT (Oct. 18) on Spike TV

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Countdown to UFC 121: "Lesnar vs. Velasquez" will debut TONIGHT (Monday, Oct. 18) at 11:30 ET on Spike TV to promote the upcoming pay-per-view (PPV) event scheduled for the Honda Center in Anaheim, California, on Saturday, Oct. 23, 2010.

The network special will provide a glimpse into the preparation and training camps of the fighters set to headline the show, featuring UFC Heavyweight Champion Brock Lesnar and undefeated challenger Cain Velasquez.

Co-main eventers Jake Shields and Martin Kampmann will also be featured in the episode.

Star-divide

Remember that MMAmania.com will provide LIVE blow-by-blow, round-by-round coverage of UFC 121, beginning with the PPV telecast at 10 p.m. ET. In addition, we will deliver up-to-the-minute quick results of all the under card action much earlier on fight night.

For the complete UFC 121 fight card and line-up click here.

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Hey did you all know there has never been a Mexican heavy weight champ!!!!!!

I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy..It does NOT matter who wins the Brock vs Cain fight because they are simply baby sitting the belt for Junior

by Big-dawg on Oct 18, 2010 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Shut Up!

Really?

It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.

by Jesse Holland on Oct 18, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea..I know they just said it like 1010000011665440064687+20069er times

C,mon Jesse you didnt catch that

I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy..It does NOT matter who wins the Brock vs Cain fight because they are simply baby sitting the belt for Junior

by Big-dawg on Oct 18, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

its called sarcasm

And that’s bullshit…cause Eddie Guerro beat Brock Lesnar for the WWE heavyweight champion ship….

WHICH ALSO!!..leads me to believe that latinos looking for their first belt is a weakness of Brock’s. Just sayin.

* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki

by Onemansyn on Oct 18, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am well aware of the sarcasm...but thanks anyway

I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy..It does NOT matter who wins the Brock vs Cain fight because they are simply baby sitting the belt for Junior

by Big-dawg on Oct 18, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't be h8ing

Let’s see.
Pea-sized brain: Check.
Out of proportion torso with bony ridges atop an elongated cranium: Check.
Inability to adapt to areas where smarter, more advanced mammals thrive (Canada): Check.
Arms are mostly useless appendages, except for holding down prey: Check.
Facing imminent and absolute extinction (October 23rd): Check.
Yeah, the Brockosaurus is a dangerous beast, to be sure. I’ll let my T-Mex do the back-riding. I call him Cain.

by d*locc on Oct 18, 2010 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Cain Train:

“Pain” Train:

Enough said…WAR ABM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff, Dice.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Oct 18, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

ABM:

Team Pain Train:

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love shooting mini-uzi's...just saying.

Don’t be scared to put Nick Diaz as one of the top 5 Welterweights in the world, homie. Thanks to BNF, I am no longer scared.

by Ulf Murphy on Oct 18, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good try Dice but reality is....

ABM

Pain Train

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff, guys. I laughed at both.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Oct 18, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

off topic

but has anyone see the interview with crocop and mauro ranallo?ive never saw a guy go that grey ever lol

"whats the difference if Bruce Springsteen is his shidoshi?"

by scott1 on Oct 19, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki

by Onemansyn on Oct 18, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki

by Onemansyn on Oct 18, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haahaa! Wut now Lester =D

Let’s see.
Pea-sized brain: Check.
Out of proportion torso with bony ridges atop an elongated cranium: Check.
Inability to adapt to areas where smarter, more advanced mammals thrive (Canada): Check.
Arms are mostly useless appendages, except for holding down prey: Check.
Facing imminent and absolute extinction (October 23rd): Check.
Yeah, the Brockosaurus is a dangerous beast, to be sure. I’ll let my T-Mex do the back-riding. I call him Cain.

by d*locc on Oct 18, 2010 12:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is he trying to jerk-off Randy's ear?

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen Randy’s ear? The thing probably has it’s own pecker.

Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.

by P-Dub on Oct 19, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly!!!! Now put Brock in place of Kongo and its night night

I like bacon...and Rashad Evans is a pussy..It does NOT matter who wins the Brock vs Cain fight because they are simply baby sitting the belt for Junior

by Big-dawg on Oct 18, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

to all the people who think cain will win,i know u hate brock but cains only chance is a lucky punch…i see brock getting a take down and cain not getting up

by phatmacjuggalo10 on Oct 18, 2010 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

The fact that you think Cain's only chance of winning is a Lucky Punch

really shows why you should not be taken seriously. I’m a HUGE Cain supporter and even i know Cain has almost a 0% chance of KO’ing Brock.

* "Standing in the ring in whatever condition I'm in is my way of life."
* "I don't think the injury was the cause for my defeat, I lost being in 100% condition at fight day. It's possible that Santiago might have been injured as well, I lost because my best was insufficient, only mortifying thoughts remain now. I think I would've entered the ring even if I lost one of my legs, I'm a fighter who fights, not with technique, but with heart."
--Kazuo Misaki

by Onemansyn on Oct 18, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

UD or a loss for Cain.

Don’t be scared to put Nick Diaz as one of the top 5 Welterweights in the world, homie. Thanks to BNF, I am no longer scared.

by Ulf Murphy on Oct 18, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lucky punch?

This isn’t Serra/GSP we’re talking about. This is gonna be total domination; Brock/Mir II with a hint, and thats a very tiny hint of Bisping/Aki

Proud fan of big boy Brock and Anderson Silva
"Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty"

by Rivalution on Oct 18, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brock Pride!

Proud fan of big boy Brock and Anderson Silva
"Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty"

by Rivalution on Oct 18, 2010 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Viking Pride!

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm so pumped for this fight

I giggle like a school girl every time I think about it

Proud fan of big boy Brock and Anderson Silva
"Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty"

by Rivalution on Oct 18, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn! I cant keep my eyes off her.

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

by Two_Words on Oct 19, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

I LOVE KATE!

Conan : You are known as a striker. Is that correct? Tell me what that means.
Chuck : Well I like to punch people, or kick them.

by DAFTMANIA on Oct 19, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brock will take Cain down easier than this....

"The harder you work in practice, the later it will benefit you in the octagon"

by Newfie3 on Oct 18, 2010 2:30 PM EDT reply actions  

that's pretty funny dude, good one

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you fan boys forgetting Cain is a better wrestler LOL

Old man Randy got up from Brock.. That’s about all I need know. The fact that Randy got up from brock tells me Cain will destroy Brock. That’s 100% proof.

Cain is future p4p best for sure. This fights staying standing, with Cain dancing around and just beating on Brock. He’ll be quicker to the punch.. Go watch Edgar vs Penn – that’s how this fight is going to go down. Brocks just going to be in shock.. As you all are, I’m not tho. I’ve trained with Cain.. He’s a beast, I helped get Cain to where he’s at today.

Cain tko rd 4.

by danago on Oct 18, 2010 2:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Cain is not a better wrestler

 Is he a better grappler in MMA? Maybe maybe not, but in college wrestling Brock was better andhis record proves it. Couture is one ofthe best grapplers in MMA period to say Cain is on the same level as Randy is ignorant.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah it would be that easy when he couldn't even do that to Kongo? Really really?

 Well it’s easy to say I’ll give you that. Brock would not of even been phased by a Kongo strike.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

To be fair Cain did pick up Kongo and Rothwell, who are big dudes. But why are you arguing with the troll, Puck?

Also, Brock had a better college record, but that was several years ago. Cain was in college more recently, so not only are his skills probably sharper, but he also probably faced better competition because the wrestlers evolved, right ;)? And I know I argued with a few of you Pain Train guys(not sure about you specifically) who said that Brock would be able to take Carwin down at will because he was a D-II wrestler, and that wasn’t the case at all. Hypothetically, Cain doesn’t have to be the better wrestler anyway, he just needs to keep from getting put in the Mir position. If you think about it, Brock’s only controlled 2 fighters on the ground, Mir and Herring, and neither of them are known for their wrestling. That’s not to say he can’t do it to Cain, but Cain is a serious wrestler in his own right.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

No doubt Cain is a good grappler

 But I don’t agree that Cains skills were ever at Brocks level in his college career, he was in wrestling 2 years after Brock and ended his wrestling in 05 were Brocks was 2000 and was not as accomplished as Brock or at the level of Brock. Brock also trains with a wrestler Cole Konrad who wrestled during Cains time and after and had a record of 130-7 or something like that and was a much better wrestler than Cain. Honestly though I’m expecting a great battle and I don’t think Cains stand up will be nearly as effective as Carwins was against Brock either and this will come down to who capatalizes on the others mistake and finishes the fight.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Cain did beat Konrad in a collegiate wrestling match, so I don't think Konrad could be THAT much better than Cain.

And 5 years is a big difference. But yes, we do get to find out soon!

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait I thought Konrad beat him? Am I mistaken here?

by EvolutionMMA on Oct 18, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm taking Cain by TKo in the fourth.

I don’t think Brock is gonna be able to run him down in this fight. He’s got composure and can take a shot. Brock is still very capable of puting him away I just was not impressed with his last fight and when look at Cain I see Matt Hughes

Drink to remember, drink to forget.

by doonerthesooner on Oct 18, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Puck yur crazy if u think Cain wudnt destroy randy!

Every1 keeps talking about how shifty big nog is yet he beat randys ass & looked gr8 doing it. Cains bigger stronger & better than Randy @ everything. Brocks guna look like a deer in te headlights again! This time Cain will finish off the job!

Let’s see.
Pea-sized brain: Check.
Out of proportion torso with bony ridges atop an elongated cranium: Check.
Inability to adapt to areas where smarter, more advanced mammals thrive (Canada): Check.
Arms are mostly useless appendages, except for holding down prey: Check.
Facing imminent and absolute extinction (October 23rd): Check.
Yeah, the Brockosaurus is a dangerous beast, to be sure. I’ll let my T-Mex do the back-riding. I call him Cain.

by d*locc on Oct 18, 2010 3:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not saying he wouldn't win but destroy no.

 One thing Randy rarely does is get destroyed and during the time Cain fought Kongo Randy would stll be able to handle Kongo with little problem and even now would beat Kongo pretty easily. And NOG got caught it happens and something that when it does in the HW division the chance of the fight finishing is much more than any other division. When Brock KO’d Randy many thought Brocks stand up was much improved as well until recently and I’m not sold on Cains from one fight either. But thats why they fight and what we will find out.

 PS Dice konrad lost all his fights but one his first year of wrestling including Cain then won something like 100+ in a row.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He beat Konrad the year Konrad was Runner-up, so you're off on that. Also Cain more than held his own against not only Konrad, but Steve Mocco as well.

In fact, many people consider the era in which Cain wrestled to be the greatest era of collegiate wrestling ever. Brock’s wrestling is mainly based on the power shots, whereas Cain used a wide variety of techniques to counter the huge guys like Konrad and Mocco. Cain’s wrestling style is generally better adapted for MMA, and much like Couture he’s slick about using the larger man’s momentum against them. If you watch Brock’s fights, you’ll see that he often drives the opponent against the fence(did it in Herring and Carwin fights) going for that power double, and he isn’t able to complete it because of that. He also isn’t able to setup the shot very well without telegraphing it because his standup isn’t very good. What makes GSP so deadly, is his ability to transition from the striking to the power shot without the opponent knowing it’s coming. I think it will be hard for Brock to shoot in without Cain knowing it’s coming. Even if he does take Cain down, I think Cain has proven that he can hold his own on the mat against bigger wrestlers. We’ll see though.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cain who was a senior upset konrad in 05,

Konrads best years were 06 and 07 were he didn’t lose a match but regardless how good a guy is in college wrestling doesn’t prove he will be better in MMA I agree. But I don’t agree that Cains style will be more effective Brocks transition movement makes Cain slow on the ground and with his strength and quickness both being superior to Cain on the ground make him a very effective wrestler much like Barnett has been for years being the bigger grappler brock can use similar techniques to Barnett and even have more of a speed advanatage were Barnett did not against Couture and still did. Brocks big hands and wrist also hold a big advanage when hold onto his opponents limbs were he will also against Cain and it makes it tougher for Cain the other way around in MMA and beig able to hold your other oppoents wrist is very effective in MMA in controling your oppoent and something Barnett has done well and something Brock is showing he can as well. Your right though we will see this weekend and Cain may surprise me Dice but I’m not betting on it.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry I rambled there a bit, rushing while I'm working

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Diceman..

Not quite..

While it’s subjective as to which era was better.. It’s highly known that Lesnar’s era had Stephen Neal..

Neal > Konrad, Mocco every day of the week and twice on Sunday..

Neal and Lesnar > Konrad, Mocco, Wagner, Cain

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 18, 2010 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well I've read that Konrad sometimes gets the best of Lesnar on the ground, but whatever.

Also, my main point wasn’t to argue about what era was best. Just saying that Cain wrestled some of the best collegiate wrestlers during one of the best wrestling eras ever. He also held his own and beat one of those wrestlers. These guys are also super HW’s, showing that Cain can hold his own while wrestling bigger, stronger opponents. And my point is that all Cain has to do is be able to hold his own in that department, since he seems to have the edge in most facets of the game.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

What edge do you think Cain really has ??

He has better technical striking..

Everything else is very subjective.. Is he faster than Lesnar ?? I don’t think he is. And if he is, it isn’t that much of a difference to really stand out.

Lesnar has the size, strength, and reach advantage.

Is Cain’s ground game that good ? Not any better than Brock’s. I don’t see how Cain is going to submit Lesnar if Frank Mir couldn’t. Frank is a MUCH more accomplished submission fighter / grappler than Cain is.

Let’s think about this logically here..

First off..

Laws of Physics.. When you have two athletes equally skilled, the general rule of thumb is the bigger man will win. This is not always the case but it holds true enough all the same. Thus the reason’s for weight classes.

What we do know is..

Barry and del Rosario striking > Velasquez

Barry and del Rosario stand up > Velasquez stand up

Brock has a heavy advantage in that his training partners are elite level HW strikers. He also has Konrad who wrestled Cain 7 times in college. Cain’s success in college came from his shot. When he was forced to stay up he often lost to the bigger men. He was also not that good in terms of technique, thus resulting in losing to the bigger more technical elite wrestlers (Konrad, Mocco, Wagner, etc..)

While he is not a scrub in terms of wrestling, he is not world class either. His “endless cardio” is nothing but hyperbole. He didn’t possess it in college and he doesn’t now. He’s very talented, but far from unbeatable. His weaknesses have always been Brock’s strengths. Brock has had great success throughout his entire career with men in Cain’s size range. He tired in the Kongo fight. Just because he keeps a frantic pace in the first round of a fight doesn’t mean he holds that pace for 25 solid minutes either. He will tire and slow as the fight wears on. If he gets stuck underneath Lesnar he will tire from carrying Lesnars weight.

What we know is that all Lesnar has to do is avoid getting caught on the button and that’s what he brought in Barry and del Rosario for. These guys were not brought in to improve Brock’s striking. They were brought in to improve Brock’s timing. Barry and del Rosario are much faster, more technical and powerful strikers. If Brock can acclimate his timing to counter their striking, that’s all he needs to do to get the fight where he wants it. With a 5" reach advantage he can keep Cain out of range. Cain will have to commit into range and that’s where they want it to be..

Am I saying Cain has no chance ? Not in the least.. But he will have to catch Lesnar to impliment his game plan and that’s a risky gamble. For all the talk of Cain’s shot.. Lesnar’s was better..

And I brought up Neal because Neal only the greatest wrestler in college history (arguably). Brock hung with him and lost on points.. Cain never even sniffed a D-1 title.. He lost to Wagner both years without ever reaching a finals..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 18, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

You sir, are the mother fucking man.

You pretty much said exactly what I’ve been trying to tell these guys for literally weeks.

Brock will fight his fight, simple.

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*
-- When Brock wins I'm going to drink a Corona and eat a burrito.

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're incorrect about the wrestling styles. Lesnar is the one whose style has relied on the power shots, and Cain has always used superior technique to hang with the bigger, stronger wrestlers. And he did very well against them.

Yes, when two fighters are equally skilled, the bigger man wins. I don’t believer they are equally skilled. I think that Lesnar has the edge in wrestling only, and it’s not as big of an edge as you would like to think. Outside of two sub-par wrestlers Brock’s wrestling has looked average inside the octagon in that department. I believe that all Cain has to do is not get dominated on the ground to win this fight. Considering his experience against guys like Mocco and Konrad, I like his chances. Brock telegraphs his shot, that’s why Carwin was able to stuff it each time in the first round. I don’t care who Brock spars standup with. Sparring with Barry and del Rosario doesn’t mean he’s going to be able to withstand Cain’s standup all of a sudden. It’s cool though, you’re clearly a Brock nuthugger, and I’m clearly not. We’re probably both misjudging the strengths and weaknesses a little bit. I’ll see you guys on Sunday though, just don’t be surprised if Brock doesn’t dominate Cain with his wrestling. Pinning down Mir for 2 minutes, and riding on Herring for 3 rounds isn’t enough to convince me that he’s the GSP of the HW division.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously don't get the importance of sparring with those guys..

Brock isn’t sparring with those guys to be a better striker in one camp.

Brock will never be an elite level striker. But whenyou have two highly accomplished strikers you can bring in that are faster than your opponent, and better than your opponent, you can adjust your timing to react to your opponents striking.

Lesnar simply brought them in to get better (defensively) and adjust his timing to leg kicks and punches from a smaller faster man. The minute Cain gets inside that 5" range and tries to throw a punch or leg kick, Brock is going to do what he did to Mir in their first fight and scoop him and dump him on his head..

It’s no big secret what their game plan is.. Try to stop it I guess.. lol

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

The difference is that Cain is a highly decorated wrestler in his own right, and Mir has admittedly poor wrestling.

You’re assuming that Brock can do to Cain what he could to Mir, and that’s a big leap of faith. Cain is not only a more accomplished wrestler, he’s quicker, and he knows what to look for. His scrambling ability is much greater than Mir’s. I’m not saying that bringing in those guys doesn’t mean anything. Brock needs to do that, and I’m sure it will help. I’m just not ready to concede that training with them = Brock successfully dealing with Cains standup. Also, Cain is a converted wrestler, whereas Barry has a traditional Muay Thai stance. I’m willing to bet it’s a lot easier to take down a traditional Muay Thai fighter than it is a converted wrestler. And you’re right, it’s not a secret what the gameplan is, and when you know that, it’s easier to stop. Like I said, Brock doesn’t have the luxury of setting up that power double with his striking in the way that a lot of other guys do, because his striking is so rudimentary.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Brock can power double Konrad consistently..

Brock can get Cain too..

When has Brock had to “set up” any of his TD’s with striking ??

All he has to do is be stubborn enough to want the TD that bad and he’s going to come full steam ahead and get it..

Another thing is don’t think their previous fights will be any indication as to how they fight come Saturday.. Brock was scared of Carwin’s power.. So he reacted to getting hit badly.. Brock doesn’t fear Cain’s power.. Cain is not a “KO” artists like the Primetime show leads to believe. All his fights outside the Nog fight are TKO’s to excessive strikes. He literally has to land 5 times the amount of shots on his opponents to stop them.

That bodes well for Lesnar’s confidence now..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Being "stubborn enough to want the TD" didn't work against the only good wrestlers he's fought in the octagon.

It worked against Mir and Herring. So to answer your question, “When has Brock had to ‘set up’ any of his TD’s with striking ? ?”, the answer is, whenever he’s fought someone that isn’t deficient in that department. Awesome, the guy that tells me I don’t know enough about the people involved to have a conversation about the fight also tells me not to look at past fights as any indication as to how this one will go. Ah, well then, please be so kind as to share but an inkling of your vast MMA knowledge with a dumb fan like me as to how this fight will go, since it appears you are a part of both the Lesnar camp and Velasquez camp. I will try my hardest to not take their previous fights into account when I think about this. I will submit to you, unabashed Brock lover, to tell me exactly how this fight will go, since I clearly don’t know enough to make an educated guess.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I meant their immediate previous fights..

Carwin and Nog..

Those are stylistically polar opposites of this respective fight..

Carwin possesses one punch KO power and Nog doesn’t threaten with any TD outside of pulling guard or from clinch..

Now you’re the one being condescending.. lol

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I got caught up in the debate and was fighting fire with fire. My bad.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I almost thought you actually watched their wrestling.. Now I see you’re just going by what you can gather off Google..

That was one match in 2006.. What you forgot was that after that match.. He then got SMOKED by Wagner to place 4th behind Konrad, Mocco, and Wagner..

All I’m saying is that Cain was never elite.. He was a solid top wreslter in the PAC 10.. He was good enough to be competitive but never good enough to succeed in the big tourneys. He also could never get past Wagner for what ever reason. He lost to Mocco, Konrad, and Wagner consistently..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

You claim that they wrestled 7 times in college and you're going to dog me out?! The ONLY place I've seen that they wrestled 7 times was on a message board.

Every other source said they wrestled 2 times, and one source said they wrestled 3. And I’m sorry, but being a 2-time divison 1 all-american isn’t elite? Being the 4th best in ANY sport is elite. You seem to be missing my point anyway. My point is that Cain has experience against, and has held his own against bigger, stronger wrestlers. Guys that have just as good of credentials as Brock. And that’s in straight wrestling. When you throw in the fact that Cain has the superior striking, superior JJ, is quicker laterally, and by all accounts has a motor that doesn’t stop, one can see that this isn’t a cakewalk for Lesnar simply because he’s a better wrestler. And to respond to a charge above, I’m not listening to the UFC hype machine regarding Cain. I’m listening to the hype of other fighters, and his trainers. It’s been spoken about for a long time that many fighters believe Cain is the best HW in the world. Before the Brock fight was lined up, Javier Mendez said that Cain outworks most of the LW’s at AKA. So don’t think I’m basing what I say off of some Primetime shows. Yes, Brock has a great chance to win this fight. I previously thought that Brock was a solid favorite. After delving more into their wrestling backgrounds, looking at what their trainers and other fighters have said, I like Cain’s chances more. I don’t really care who was the better college wrestler, and I don’t even think that’s up for debate. What I do care about is the fact that Cain has held his own against comparable wrestlers, as I believe that’s all he needs to do, hold his own.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don';t need message boards to remind me of the facts..

:)

They wrestled 7 times.. If you followed their collegiate careers.. You would have known that.. Not all of their matches were in the NCAA’s. a few were in open tourney’s..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's atip for ya.. :)

Trainers say what ever they need to say to stroke the ego of the fighter.. It’s called building confidence.. It’s a basic fundamental to psychology..

I’m not discrediting Cain’s ability. I’m simply pointing out the favorite and then pointing out why that’s so..

Unlike some people, I have followed them LONG before they entered into the UFC. Cain has looked good in 7 of his 8 pro fights.. But lets look at “who” he’s fought and really compare..

Here’s something more relative to their fight..

Lesnar’s training partners > Cain’s training partners.. That’s a relative assessment. Lesnar’s camp is directly geared by HW’s for HW’s. He has the best wrestlers, the best JJ guys, and now a few of the top of the food chain strikers all catering to him directly.

Cain doesn’t have the financial resources to find the elite big wrestlers that he needs to. Unless he went out and got Mocco or Wagner to help him train for it.. Cormeir is not a good comparison because he is smaller and no where near as strong..

The key to this fight is “timing”.. The term you hear from the AKA camp is:

There isn’t anyone like Brock Lesnar. What they mean is there aren’t guys that big and strong that are that fast so they will have to adjust timing on the fly. Where as Lesnar has all the big guys he can use to sharpen his tools, and guys that are better strikers than Cain and in the same size range. So Brock will have a natural advantage comping in because his timing should be more sharp to deal with Cain than Cain to deal with Brock.. You just don’t realize how fast he really is until you’re in there with him. Go research Randy’s comments on Brock.. Go watch all his fights, his wrestling matches.

He catches people off guard because it’s hard finding guys to train with to mimic his size, speed, and power. They bring in smaller guys that are faster than themselves..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, I'm aware that guys have trouble dealing with Brock's combination of size and speed. Again though, you're implying that timing Cain will be easily done from training with Pat Barry and del Rosario, and that's not the case.

It will most certainly help, but I don’t think shooting on Barry and shooting on Velasquez is anything the same. And the things I’ve heard Mendez say aren’t your typical ego stroking comments. Guys don’t usually build their fighters confidence by saying things like, “He outworks the LW’s in training.” Cain isn’t dumb. Mendez isn’t going to say that if Cain can see for himself it’s not true. As far as JJ goes, I think Dave Camarillo is on par with anyone, and it’s well-documented how quickly Cain developed his JJ game. That’s another factor for the fight. Cain has a legit JJ game, but he never uses it from the top. That leads most to believe that he likes working from the bottom. Cain is a great scrambler as well. I don’t think Cain would be able to submit Brock, but he can certainly use those skills to do something Mir didn’t do, sweep, get to better position, etc. Mir thought he was fine riding that position out, he didn’t attempt to move once. That was a stupid idea, and it backfired on him. Anyway, I think this horse has been beat enough. Saturday is a great night of fights regardless of who wins.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Simply no..

Comprido > Camarillo

You obviously don’t know enough about the people brought in for training on either side to make an informed statement.

del Rosario is the exact same size as Cain.. Uses the exact same stance as Cain. And unlike Cain’s trainers saying Cain is a K-1 level striker, del Rosario is a K-1 level striker..

Cain would get his legs smashed inside 2 minutes in his first K-1 fight. Sorry, but Cain’s striking is not as great as his trainers say..

Barry is not a good measuring stick for timing ??

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6nlL3IJxx8

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

What does Pat Barry's kickboxing match with Gary Goodridge have to do with this conversation? How does that further your argument?

Cain and Barry don’t move the same, and getting your timing down to shoot on Barry isn’t the same as it is with Cain. As fas as del Rosario goes, he’s 3" taller than Cain, is a southpaw, and doesn’t move like him at all. You sit there and condescend about how I don’t know enough about the people involved to make an informed statement, and then try to pass that garbage off in the next sentence. As far as Comprido vs. Camarillo goes, I’ll take Camarillo’s students over Comprido. Especially since he’s done a fantastic job with converted wrestlers in the past. And surely you’re not suggesting that Brock’s JJ is on the same level as Cains, right? LOL at yourself, because that post really didn’t help your case at all.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

You don't know striking then..

If you can’t see the speed and distance Barry had to close to effectively attack the “bigger guy” than there is no need to further this discussion..

You simply don’t know enough to have a conversation with..

The video clearly illustrates how technical and quick Barry’s striking his. It has nothing to do with stances. It has to do with developing a counter to the timing of the opponent. Cain is “not” as fast as either of Brock’s striking partners.. Cain is not as technical, and not as powerful either. Therefore, Brock’s timing “should be well ahead” of the curve needed to overcome the one minor advantage Cain brings to the table standing up.

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

You're not understanding what I'm writing, and you're dismissive. Those are hardly the traits of someone who is too knowledgable to have a conversation with someone.

I know that from my experience training MMA, that styles make fights. I know that timing Barry and taking him down, is not the same as timing Cain and taking him down, regardless of who the better striker is. I would argue that Cain IS just as fast as Barry and del Rosario on the feet. He’s not the striker they are, but I’m talking about his ability to transition from striking to TDD/scrambling. While both Barry and del Rosario are more accomplished strikers, they don’t offer half the challenge that Cain does in the grappling department. The fact that you think Cain only has one area of advantage in this fight, and that it is a minor advantage, shows me that you can’t see past that sign that no one wants to take to the weigh-ins for you. I’m not a Cain fan, I was just trying to point out that he has more than held his own against wrestlers of Lesnar’s caliber. That led to this display of diminishing Cain’s skills and pumping Brock up.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

I apologize for coming off like I'm being condescending

I didn’t mean it in that manner..

I agree with much of your evaluations, except for the part that Cain has held his own with wrestlers. In terms of MMA, he only has fought one wrestler in O’Brien..

I don’t think Cain doesn’t have a chance. I just think his chance is marginal at best.

To simplify it, the only person that can beat Lesnar at this point is Lesnar himself. If he comes in and gets reckless or careless, he’s gonna be beat. If he comes in and sticks to the plan like he’s done in every other fight, he’s the easy odds on favroite and for good reason..

That’s the only point I was trying to make..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough. I disagree with your assesment, but that's what makes the fights fun.

I feel like Carwin showed plenty of holes in Lesnar’s game, and that he’s not unstoppable. I can’t say that Carwin is better than Brock, because endurance is part of the game, and Brock’s was superior. I do think that Carwin showed that good TDD and above average striking is enough to put Lesnar in trouble. I think that Cain has the skills to put Lesnar in trouble, but I guess we’ll find out.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree..

I think Carwin did show a glaring hole..

But it was more or less Brock afraid of getting hit than anything else. Like he said in a recent interview.. There is always that doubt or fear until you get cracked one good time to see what you’re made of. I think it’s just the fight or flight syndrome.. Brock showed he has the fight when push comes to shove..

Cain’s best odds for finishing the fight are not dragging the fight out. His best shot is catching Lesnar early and finishing him off. That’s the big misconception a lot of people are having with this Cain is a cardio machine theory..

Cain will have to constantly avoid TD’s and scramble from clinch as the fight wears on if he doesn’t catch Lesnar early. That will wear on him just as it will Lesnar.. But the key here again is timing and physics..

All Lesnar really has to do is avoid the shot he doesn’t see coming to get caught. The rest of it will favor him as the fight goes on because he’s the bigger guy.. If he can push Cain around, then he’s right where he wanted to be. Cain must avoid Lesnar getting close to him and then avoid Lensar trying to take him down.

It’s definitely one of the best HW championship fights we’ve had in the last decade.. They both are relatively equal in a lot of areas.. Very similar to Carwin/Lesnar.. I would give the edge to Carwin over both of those guys in punching power. Wrestling, they’re all equal, IMO.. The great neutralizer isn’t cardio for Cain or Brock IMO.. They are both proven endurance athletes at their peak. I think if the fights drags on the laws of physics play heavily in this fight..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great debate you guys

 I’m giving the win to MMAuthority his knowlege on college wrestling I needed earlier. I too think Cains indurance is over hyped as well as his stand up but we will see this weekend who the champion is.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 19, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

endurance LOL

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 19, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here's a back story on Pat Barry..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoyYS4lCptY&feature=related

Pat Barry was easily one of the best up and comers in striking. He got in with Hoost’s camp. Hoost and Barry had a falling out because Hoost wasn’t putting enough into Barry and Barry felt disrespected. So Barry told Hoost he would destroy one of his top prospects..

Insert Hardonk..

When Barry doesn’t like you, you go down.. It’s that simple.. Don’t let his fight with Cro Cop fool anyone. Barry shattered his right hand and his lead foot in less than a minute apart in the first round after dropping Cro Cop. The guy couldn’t push the finish button on his idol..

If anyone thinks Cain is a better striker than Barry.. There is no need to bother having a discussion. You’re devoid of reality..

When there is no threat of the TD, everyone will throw punches and kicks.. We’ll see how much Cain is willing to open up with the threat of Lesnar bull rushing..

Barry would SMOKE Cain in standing fight..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

See my above post. I'm a huge Barry fan, and know all about his time training in Holland. No one is arguing that Cain is better standing than Barry. Why the hell do you keep saying that.

Let’s make this clear, I’m WELL AWARE that Barry is a better standup fighter than Cain. What I said was, THEIR TIMING IS DIFFERENT. I also said IT’S GOOD BROCK IS TRAINING WITH BARRY. Don’t sit there and try to be a condescending prick if your reading comprehension blows.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Condescension >>>Comprehension.

Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.

by P-Dub on Oct 19, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lol

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and no..

Konrad has never gotten the better of Brock at anything..

I don’t know where you read that from.. I just asked the dude and he told me it wasn’t true.. The only time anybody outworked him in training was the 2 weeks he was sick before the Carwin fight. That’s when he pulled out and then got diverticulitis. That’s how they knew Brock wasn’t right.. Nobody has ever outworked him in practice..period..

Brock has had Cole on top of him, but from drills working back to his feet. He gets up every time.. Nobody has held him down. That include multiple guys subbing in during 5 minute intervals..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

"Konrad has never gotten the better of Brock at anything..."

Haha, ok dude. I guess you’re in the camp, in which case I apologize. The lengths some of you guys go to to defend Brock is funny. The meltdown after Saturday night will be epic.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here ya go..

Konrad hints that he may have all he can handle in his workouts with Lesnar, the current UFC heavyweight champion who has wowed fans with his combination of speed, power, and precision techniques.

“If you haven’t worked out with him and felt that athleticism and explosion, it’s hard to comprehend. As big and strong as he looks, he actually feels more powerful and more explosive,” Konrad confided. “It’s hard to believe. You get so used to going with a guy that big, that explosive, that powerful, that when you step back and get in with someone who isn’t on that level you think ‘Well, wait a minute here.’ Because he isn’t in the same league as what you are used to seeing.”

Ray Hui: How did you first get involved with MMA?

Cole Konrad: As soon as I finished college wrestling, Brock Lesnar was training for his first upcoming fight, which didn’t actually happen until the following February, I think. He was training and needed big guys to work out with. And he had come in and helped me with wrestling while I was in college; when I needed big guys to work out with, he’d come in and he needed someone to help him so I started coming in and it just kind of evolved from there.

You two must be a great fit if you two remained working together since you were in college.

A big thing was we knew each other, we got along well. We both understand how to train and how to push ourselves and stuff. It’s hard to find good training partners, let alone one that just happens to be the right size that you can work out with at an elite level. Yeah, it just all happened to work perfect.

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

So you think that him "hinting" that Lesnar "may be all he can handle" proves that he has never gotten the better of Brock at anything ever?

Yes, and James Toney choked out King Mo :-/

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 19, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not in training..

Lesnar has been sub-coaching Konrad since his freshman year as a walk-on at Minnesota..

Konrad can hold his own, but he eventually loses because Lesnar is just that much stronger than him.. Konrad’s technique is far and above superior than Lesnar’s.. However, Lesnar makes up for it with his superior strength advantage.

The guy dead lifts over 700 lbs. He is a freak.. plain and simple..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well Cole konrad is not the MMA grappler Brock is anyway

 And I think your making it up that Brock was thrown around by Cole when it was stated before Cole went into his first MMA match that Brock was tossing him around, brocks coach was asked along the lines about were Brocks grappling was now compared to his college days and he stated they had Cole there and Brock was tossing him around pretty good.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No worries though, Cain's gonna whoop that ass!

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I know people are going to try to deminish Lesnar’s abilities as a wrestler because he has been out of amateur wrestling longer than Cain. That math does not make any sense since they are both training wrestling for MMA. The reality is that even if Cain is as good of a wrestler as Brock he would still be giving up much size and strength, but also a tremendous amount of quickness when it comes to wrestling.

Now for people talking about Cain’s superior striking, is it much much much better than Lesnar’s absolutley. Is it technically better than Carwin I say yes. Is it as powerful as Carwin… not nearly on his best day. I also think his striking will be far less effective as he is giving up almost 5 inches in reach and I do not believe he will risk setting up his striking as he has done in the past with his kicks fearing the takedown.

Having thousands of posts on a MMA site does not make you an expert, training martial arts, wrestling or boxing makes you an expert.

by ASR on Oct 18, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

As well

  Being aggressive as Cain has been agaisnt NOG, Kongo and Ben is one thing but being aggressive against somoen like Brock will make it easier for the takedown. Not to mention how far Brocks ground game has changed from the time he first fought Mir to Couture to now is much improved.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

See post directly above yours. Cain has held his own on the mat against wrestlers who are as good if not better than Brock. Brock's style doesn't translate as well to MMA wrestling as Cain's does. In what fight has Brock dominated with his wrestling

besides the Herring and Mir fights? Mir has always sucked at wrestling. Herring has never been good at it, he’s always been a scramble and survive kind of guy. Plus he survived for 3 rounds under Brock with a broken face. I’m not trying to minimalize Brock’s credentials, but I do think Cain is on a whole other level than the guys that Brock has controlled on the ground.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

What gives you the impression he is on another level?

Just wondering. Besides NOG whom has be beaten of any worth? I am not trying to minimalize Cain I think he is incredible. People just need to see this as what it is a bad match up for him. He is going to have to be moving forward to make up for the reach advantage and that makes one prone to takedowns. Once on the ground…. lets just say he better not wrestle like he did against Kongo.

By the way Mir has sucked at wrestling which would mean he has bad takedowns and TDD but Mir was on his back were a BJJ blackbelt should be dominant and he was owned by Lesnar. Sorry but if he had trouble on his back so will Cain.

Having thousands of posts on a MMA site does not make you an expert, training martial arts, wrestling or boxing makes you an expert.

by ASR on Oct 18, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And a postion Cain is not use to being in and I think whoever gets top position will have an advanatage over the guy on the ground.

On the back Mir has proven to be able to win as has couture has proved he can get out agaisnt good grapplers. As far as saying Brock is on a entire other level it’s hard to say as far as MMA goes, but I think Brock will have an advantage how big? I can’t wait to find out.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think Cain is going to get smothered like that by Brock if he didn't by Konrad or Steve Mocco, especially since he's better at other MMA skills than Lesnar.

We’ll see though on Saturday. You and Jay can cuddle and comfort each other after Saturday.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

First off you heard wrong about Brock getting thrown around by Konrad it's the other way around

  But even so practicing is one thing and doing is another. We will see how Cain does in MMA grappling this weekend Dice, there is no guarantee on a winner as I agree Cain is great competitior with a huge heart and I’m expecting a battle and expect no less from either fighter. Of coarse being a fan of Brocks I will be a little upset if he loses and very if gets owned but I don’t see either happening.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, no, no...haven't read that he gets thrown around in practice by Brock, just that they have good battles and Konrad gets the best of him sometimes. That's just in grappling though, they're allegedly pretty evenly matched on the mat, but Brock is

better at pretty much everything else. That includes inflicting damage from the top, which is where I think Brock really separates himself on the ground from Konrad in MMA. From what I’ve seen, Konrad can control guys, but he can’t do NEAR the damage Brock can. Admittedly I’ve only seen Konrad fight MMA 3 times.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah konrad last fight his conditioning looks bad.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it looked real bad. Seems like he could lose some bad fat.

"I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious."-Michael Scott

by Diceman on Oct 18, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Konrads credentials

Konrad’s wrestling credentials are well-documented. He’s arguably the most successful wrestler in the history of Gophers wrestling. Konrad went 76-0 and won two Division I national titles at heavyweight during his junior and senior seasons. Over his final three years at the University of Minnesota, Konrad compiled a 117-3 record, two gold medals and one silver medal.

Konrad only had 13 total NCAA losses. 10 in his freshman year. 3 in his sophmore year (one of those losses to Cain in a 4-3 points match). 0 in his junior and senior year.

Considering Konrad and Velasquez wrestled 7 times, we can see their record is 6-1 in favor of Konrad. Cain had good TD defense but could never stop people from taking him down at the elite level.

Again, as I pointed out.. Cain’s weaknesses have always been Brock’s strengths..

Don’t be fooled by their records in MMA either.. Cain has only had 2 additional fights than Lesnar and hasn’t had the level of competition that Lesnar has had thus far in MMA. I also believe Carwin was 12-0 heading into their fight.. For all the talk of Brock coming back in that fight, we can also look at the other end of that spectrum here too. Carwin had never been out of the first round. The minute he got out of his normal comfort zone, the fight changed drastically..

The point of this discussion is to look at the logistics of both fighters, weight the odds and then account for the variables here. Cain has looked good in 7 of his 8 fights. Kongo showed that he can be hurt and controlled. What you havent seen is how will Cain react when he gets put in a position that he is not used to ? You also have to account for the nerves and adrenaline dump here. This is the big stage with the sports biggest draw. To Lesnar.. this is simply another day at the office. For Cain.. This is all new and the added stress can play heavily on your nerves. What this does is impact how you may react in certain situations that he normally wouldn’t react to.

For instance, if he gets clipped and put on his back.. how will he hold up when Lesnar starts pounding on his head ?

This fight can go either way.. But the odds on favorite is all in Lesnar’s favor. Don’t be swayed by bookies and marketing. If we know one thing.. Lensar won’t fold when the pressure is on. Does Cain hold up if he gives it everything he has and Lesnar is still standing ready for the next round ? It happened to Carwin and it can happen to Cain too..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m not sure I like you….

But that was a damn good post!

I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...

by SouthCaliStunNa on Oct 19, 2010 2:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Brock could very well lose this fight..

It’s more or less Brock’s to lose than it is Cain’s to win..

I’m not a Brock fan boy.. I just give credit where credit is due.. The guy is the real deal, regardless of what your opinions are of him as a person or coming from a WWE background.

Had he pulled a Konrad and gone into MMA right after college he could very well be in the talks as one of the greatest.. I think time isn;t on his side, but he has more than lived up to any and all expectations of himself..

I certainly didn’t give him much a chance out of the gate, I’m converted..

8-29-09

Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..

7-3-10

BROCKLESNARRRR!!!!

by MMAuthority on Oct 19, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. I have always given him credit. He is a phenom and deserves much respect for his accomplishments.

"Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.

-Stephen King

by OJR on Oct 19, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

nor sure why others aren’t seeing it this way as well. Too many are disillusioned by the beast that is Brock. He’s a freak of nature no doubt. He’s an incredible mixture of size and speed…..but here’s the thing……Cain is more of a freak, and this will be the perfect opportunity for everyone to see just what a freak Cain is. The guys from AKA have been talking about it for a while, and now he gets to show the world.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cain is more of a freak?

 He is around the same speed as Brock and for those think he has the power of Carwin or wrestling ability of Brock are the ones that are disillusioned by the hype.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

So agree with that

Having thousands of posts on a MMA site does not make you an expert, training martial arts, wrestling or boxing makes you an expert.

by ASR on Oct 18, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

like OMG, me too!

-It's Better To Be Judged By Twelve Than Carried By Six-
(In the name of the SouthCaliStunNa, amen)

by *Californication* on Oct 18, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Full on for sure!

Our lives change like the weather, but a legend never dies.

by P-Dub on Oct 19, 2010 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.....

but that’s why they fight the fights…..we will all know by Saturday night, won’t we?

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

the freak subject.......

I think it’s safe to say that they are both Freaks……to me, the most important factor is that Cain has more tools…meaning more places he can take the fight, and more ways to win the fight. I also feel that Brock will not be able to hold Cain down. That’s the big question right there, and that will most likely determine who wins this fight.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions  

It's how effective will their tools be against eachother and I agree Cain is a great fighter

 But I believe Brocks tools will be more effective. There is no guarantee and thats what makes this fight exciting for sure. I can’t wait it should be a epic battle.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

one of the best ppv's in a while

of course we’ll have to wait and see, but this looks to be a very strong ppv.

1. Brock/Cain, enough said.
2. The UFC debut of Jake Shields
3. Diego Sanchez 2nd tour of duty at Jackson’s camp (he needed it bad)
4. Tito vs Simple Jack (teacher vs student)

I hope it’s as great as I think it will be.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions  

I sure hope the student gives the teacher a ass kicking :)

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth - Mike Tyson

by Puck Head on Oct 18, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

not me

i want Tito to win……the thinking being it might better set up another dance with Chuckie.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree there.

I think the only fight Dana would be interested in for Chuck would be with Tito. Beating Tito will not do that much for Hammils career but losing to him could help us all get to see Tito get the ass whippin that has been coming for years.

Having thousands of posts on a MMA site does not make you an expert, training martial arts, wrestling or boxing makes you an expert.

by ASR on Oct 18, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

hell yes

As far as i’m concerned, Chuck is done in the UFC and the LHW division, but i think he has one more Tito ass-kicking left in the tank.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only in America

Cain is culturally confused, why you rep a country that your father left in order to give you a better life? And now that said country has help lift you to this level and you denounce your birth country? Cain is American, the UFC is using deceptive marketing tactics and stoking racial tension by calling this American a Mexican, not only that they have talked Cain into feeding into it.

by Monte Farst on Oct 18, 2010 3:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Enough with this shit already

Go to CNN if you wanna discuss cultural bias. It’s a fuckin tattoo, GET OVER IT.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

well to be honest he is not really talkin about the tattoo

But you are right this site is for MMA not cultural bias as you say it

My Top MMA Talents

1. Jon ''Bones'' Jones
2. Anthony ''Showtime'' Pettis
3. Phil ''Mr. Wonderful'' Davis
4. Charles '' Do Bronx" Oliveira
5. Rory ''The Waterboy'' MacDonald

by robinhorobson on Oct 18, 2010 3:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bro can you read?

By your response I would assume that you either A. can’t read or B. your dumb as shit. The UFC is doing what a lot of media moguls do which is use the media and the personalities in it to create a “divide and conquer” strategies on the rest of the populace to divide us. I’ve watched multiple video clips about the marketing of this fight and there is no doubt that the people in charge of the promotion of this fight have used this particular fight to stoke extreme passions on both sides of a racial divide. Why doesn’t this guy say I’m not Mexican, I’m American? So we got a President who wants to be American but isn’t and a potential champion fighter who is American but wants to be Mexican. Whats it mean to be American anymore? Brock by smash and pound in 3rd.

by Monte Farst on Oct 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand....

but it seems like the “Brown Pride” Tattoo seems to be what starts this ridiculous conversation. It’s been way overdone. It’s very simple…….The dude’s parents were born and raised in Mexico, and then immigrated to California. As a result, he grew up in California. He spoke Spanish and English growing up. He most likely grew up watching his Dad root for Mexico’s soccer team, and rooting for Roberto Duran, and other Mexican fighters. As a result, Cain is proud of his mexican, or latin roots. That’s it….it’s that simple. People need to stop making more of it. I take no offense to it whatsover, and i don’t see how anyone can.

"Oh hell son, i was high that day. That doesn't make any sense at all, you can be second, third, fourth....hell, you can even be fifth" - Reese Bobby

by kg12 on Oct 18, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Its funny that people always incorporate his tattoo (singular) with his mexican decent but nobody ever mentions the Our Lady of Guadalupe tattoo which is even more a symbol of his heritage.

by EvolutionMMA on Oct 18, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its not the heritage that ignites people. Its the perceived (falsely) racism and obvious double standard (true). I could care less, but it is what it is.

I'm Not Afraid of Dying, I'm a Little Bit Scared of What Comes After...

by SouthCaliStunNa on Oct 19, 2010 2:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

He has every right to be proud of his Mexican decent!

But, is he proud to be an American also? Maybe! He’s never mentioned it, though! And, you don’t see him moving his family back to Mexico! But hey, that’s what’s so great about America! He can be proud of anything he wants! I just don’t understand why he fails to mention ANY American pride since this is the country that has given him the opportunities he possesses today. Unless, our country isn’t good enough for him!?!? Either way, a big, strong, badda@@ AMERICAN farm boy is gonna beat his a@@ in just a few days. And then, he can be PROUD of the a@@whipping he took!

"Is this website for sale?"

by Danas A Crossdresser on Oct 19, 2010 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Randy might of got up from Brock.

But Kongo almost KO’d Cain.

I say it’s even playing field.

War Brock.

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yur right!!! Instead of taking it & power bombing him rite after.

He shud of ran away & curled up in the fetal position till Kongo gassed out =D

Let’s see.
Pea-sized brain: Check.
Out of proportion torso with bony ridges atop an elongated cranium: Check.
Inability to adapt to areas where smarter, more advanced mammals thrive (Canada): Check.
Arms are mostly useless appendages, except for holding down prey: Check.
Facing imminent and absolute extinction (October 23rd): Check.
Yeah, the Brockosaurus is a dangerous beast, to be sure. I’ll let my T-Mex do the back-riding. I call him Cain.

by d*locc on Oct 18, 2010 10:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Because Kongo's and Carwins punches are comparable...

that’s sarcasm. smart ass.

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

UFC 121

Can’t wait for this the one:“THE RED NECK VS. THE BEANER”

by BlackBeltInBed on Oct 18, 2010 11:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Stupid Blade

Stupid Blade…

Shogun's knee will explode for the final time when Rashad shoots for the takedown.

by G Squat on Oct 18, 2010 11:43 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Stupid Blade

Horrible movie interrupting stuff I already know.

Shogun's knee will explode for the final time when Rashad shoots for the takedown.

by G Squat on Oct 18, 2010 11:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I tried to watch the countdown..

But the (literally) 20 minutes of the same 5 commercials over and over really made me change the channel.

WE GET IT SPIKE! GENE LIKES TO SCORE! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Riding the Brock Train.
Sonnen and Bisping = Pillow hands. The KO power of a paraplegic.
*The Brock train is full. Once he exposes Cain you can't get on.*
-- When Brock wins I'm going to drink a Corona and eat a burrito.

by D-MoB on Oct 18, 2010 11:58 PM EDT reply actions  

You wanna hear somethin funny?

Ask Tito to say “Equilibrium”

Using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

by Two_Words on Oct 19, 2010 12:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Man

That Arm Bar fucker here again. Wish his arm would get stuck in a fuckin car door so he can’t type here no more.

by BlackBeltInBed on Oct 19, 2010 4:31 AM EDT reply actions  

SmackDown

I wish Lesnar would try some WWE shit like fly from the top of the cage and crush Candy Cain. Be funny to see all he beans fly outta that fucker.

by BlackBeltInBed on Oct 19, 2010 4:35 AM EDT reply actions  

ufc 121, border patrol

And cain can climb the side of the cage(fence) when he gets to the octagon….perhaps that was a tad tasteless

Activia; now with bullshitifus ridicularus

by salamagogo on Oct 19, 2010 6:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

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