For Junior dos Santos, Mirko Cro Cop is more dangerous than Brock Lesnar
by Eduardo Cruz on Jan 8, 2010 9:28 AM EST
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Props: Terra.com
Quoteworthy:
"Fighting Cro Cop gives me more jitters rather than facing Lesnar. Cro Cop is a guy very dangerous. If he just connect a left-kick the contest is over (laughs). That was a warring combat for me. I was on the edge all the time and very rapid because I worked out the speed to get away from the kick, even so, I left the Octagon injured. It was my hardest fight in the UFC and Cro Cop is one of the best fighters."
Junior dos Santos talks about his most dangerous foe on the heels of yet another knockout victory -- this time over Gilbert Yvel at UFC 107 back on Jan. 2. The Minotauro Team fighter revealed his confrontation against Mirko Filipovic at UFC 103 was the most difficult so far and also said he will only contend for the title if Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira isn't the heavyweight champion. Where do you rank him in this division?
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Ohh Fu^ck another man calling out brock when he's down
I really hope Brock comes Back if he thought Cro Cop was tough he hasn’t seen anything yet.
I agree....
All these fighters are talking major junk. I am not even a fan of Lesnar, but the more I hear people talk the more I want him to come back and tear everyone up! Maybe Brock can incorporate the F5 in to his MMA skill set, lol!
He didn't say anything bad about Lesnar?!
Probly because Lesnar hasn’t shown power or skillset that can instantly end fight. Personally i think Lesnar is a bigger stylistic threat simply because in the past JDSdefensive wrestling has not been great. His ground neither but that was a while ago though. Regardless WAR MINOTAURO TEAM, JDS is still maturing and will be an even bigger beast!!!
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
He's not calling out Lesnar
You have to take these quick quotes for what they’re worth. If you click the link and can translate a little bit than you can see the guy interviewing him flat out asked him if Lesnar would be a tought fight for him than Cro Cop. He’s just being honest about his answer. He idolized Cro Cop so it was a tougher fight for him mentally than anything. No harm in this quote and JDS is a damn stud of a fighter.
"I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!"
by Buster Bluth on Jan 8, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
agree
I see JDS holding the strap eventually. He’s looking great and has one of the best camps in MMA. Big things to come for sure!
My only worry
is that if he keeps doing well, and Big Nog starts doing well again, then things might get stale when they refuse to fight.
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Don 't worry SPK, Nog isn't coming back.
JDS isn’t going to have to worry about fighting him for the belt.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
SPK now. lol
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I think it's probably SPK from now on
don’t think I have a choice! lol
anyway I’m open to the possibility that Nog could come back, I agree that there are valid questions to be answered about his form, but I have a feeling he may answer them against Cain.
I guess I should come up with special names for you guys too tkkpal is a tough one, but from now on Jay is Jaygermeister
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
It’s cool SPK. I tease the posters I like.
I don’t see Nog doing it against Cain, and I hate Cain and his unwarranted hype.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
It's cool
I like you too Jaygermeister
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Nog
Big Nog is going to get his hands on Mir and it’s gonna be a great day for all Mir haters and then he’s getting his bling bling back.
"I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!"
by Buster Bluth on Jan 8, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know about that Buster
I have no faith in Nog at all any more.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I think you should reserve judgement on Nog
This fight with Cain will be a big indicator, it’s crucial for both men and it will make break Nog or send Cain to the front or the back of the line. It’s tough to call, but I see a submission win for Nog, infact I think he could handle him on the feet too. apart from takedowns, I don’t know what Cain does better than Nog. even the takedowns are kind of playing to Nog’s strengths in BJJ. Just don’t see a win for Cain there
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'd made this judgment on Nog three years ago
And nothing he has done since then has changed my mind. Beating Cain doesn’t put him in the top three IMO.
Cain isn’t in the same league as JDS, Shane or Mir.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
If Mir and NOG both win you know we will see a NOG vs Mir 2
If that happens who do you feel JDS should fight jay?
God willing
Carwin and Cain need to be fighting for the title of overhyped champion of the world.
JDS has done more than Each of them. As has Mir
dude.....i am
JDS vs. Cain
To completely end that hype. He could fight Shane, but that fight should be saved until after Cain is erased.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
you will be very surprised by NOG!
He is far from done, and IMO will be UFC champion by 2011.
i have been studying is form, technique and speed from the Couture fight, and I think he looked great! His ground game is Elite at HW! Couture is much better at mma wrestling and controlling his opponents on the ground then Brock,Cain and Shane…and he was making Randy look silly! randy has been sweeping bigger guys with great wrestling, but BJJ black belts as well like ricco and Barnett! The top UFC wrestlers suck at BJJ, so they will get toyed with on the ground
Standing, Nog looked great against Randy, crisp fast strikes. He found his range well…not much drop off from his striking he displayed in 2004 GP which IMO is his top form!
Nog is very much in the title fight and there is no doubt in my mind that he will beat Mir whenever they fight again, and I expect Nog to shock Cain!
Nog is going to be the favorite, but it would be a good fight too bad they aren’t fighting in NJ, Carwin has no business in a fight like that. I think what Junior is saying here is that Mirko is a better knockout artist than Brock Lesnar, and he is.
sometimes the beauty is in the attempt.
Shane only got the title shot for beaking off at Brock
He should be killed by Murrrr.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Sorry Puck head
have to disagree here (not the first time) lol. Carwin has alot of questions to answer before I’m convinced
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Just becasue he has abs doesnt put him in title contention
HE is dangerous, but by no means is he championship material.
I would love to see him vs Brett Rogers honestly
dude.....i am
I don't knwo brendog I think Mir is going to win
But I wouldn’t be shocked to see Carwin win. i hear this he has a lot of questions to answer and what if he answers them either way none of really know thats what also makes him scary. He could be a deadly MMA wrestler i don’t know yet for sure do you? We all know Carwin has a deadly strike with out a doubt, good size, a wrestling background, great trainer. His trainer and training partners all say he has a good ground game and great conditioning can you say the same about JDS?
JDS trains full-time with Brazilian legends
Carwin has never gone the distance and is an engineer, plus he’s never been truly tested other than from one punch by Gabe that broke his nose. I like Carwin but he’s done less than JDS and Cain and is only getting the bigger fights because he has the bigger mouth, not because he’s better than either of them.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Good points David
I beleive Carwin trains hard though even when he’s working he is a different character he enkoys his job and finds it more of a hobby than a job? The good thing is we will find out how good Carwin is in his next three fights.
JDS would kill him
Rogers is a big dude who can throw punches. JDS is a big dude that can fight.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
It would be like watching a boxer against a football player
In a boxing match. JDS is too skilled for Rogers.
I would like to see Rogers fight Yvel.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
JDS would beat Rogers
his boxing is Vastly Superior and his power is comparable.
"He wants to get in close and use that reach advantage" - Mike Goldberg
"Half of this game is 90% Mental" - Tim Sylvia
"I have two words for you... Destiny" - Diego Sanchez.
Anyone interested in a dumbest MMA quote of all time poll?
I think JDS would win by Ko at some point
But I think he would have to be carefull agianst a decent power striker like Rogers. You may be right though Rogers may need another two or three fights to see were he really is. It’s so hard to judge him by his last two fights alone.
that said
he did really well against Fedor all things considered. And if nothing else showed all of us a world of improvment.
He won’t catch other elite HW like he caught AA… not anymore.
"He wants to get in close and use that reach advantage" - Mike Goldberg
"Half of this game is 90% Mental" - Tim Sylvia
"I have two words for you... Destiny" - Diego Sanchez.
Anyone interested in a dumbest MMA quote of all time poll?
I don't know about all that.....
I always wonder about this myself, I mean let’s just use Rogers for the example cause we are talking about him, the dude was 10-0 till Fedor shut him down and he handled himself fairly well for just a ‘big guy who can throw punches’! I know the guys he beat were cans as people call them but just because the UFC isn’t stamped all over something does not mean we can’t applaud it or them or whoever or whatever the case. Rogers imo would give anyone in the UFC a go for the same reasons Broc would, cause he’s big and strong.
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
of course he would, but JDS isn’t just anyone he’s the best HW boxer they have in the UFC and to me right now he’s the best HW overall in the UFC.
sometimes the beauty is in the attempt.
Big strong and no real background, though.
If Brock didn’t have his wrestling and speed they would be similar. Brock has tools that Rogers could only dream of having.
That said, Rogers could do very well against any person in the world, he did just do ok against the toughest man in the world. I would say he is a tough fight for anyone. But I don’t think he would beat any of the guys I mentioned.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I rate Grim as highly as Carwin
They’re both huge guys with powerdul strikes with one big name and about 10 KO wins over lesser opposition. Grim gave Fedor a good fight like I knew he would and is certainly worthy of the UFC, though like Carwin I don’t think that he’s as good an athlete as Cain and Brock or anywhere near as good a striker as JDS. He could give Mir problems though, if Fedor can’t keep you on your back then Mir can’t.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
I second these sentiments.
He wasn’t talking crap. This happens alot on this site. Someone answers an interview question honestly and they are talking crap! Nonesense.
Do not. I repeat, do not, go to mma-core.com. I made the mistake of watching a couple UFC 108 bouts on there and I am still trying to get all the viruses of my computer. Ridiculous! You've been warned.
by fenderacoustic (formerly wAyNe) on Jan 8, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
No doubt...
Instead of worrying about Brock he needs to be putting together his gameplan for the winner of Mir/Carwin, and helping Nog get ready for Cain.
He's not worrying about Brock
He barely said anything about Brock, all he did was show respect to Cro Cop. He sees top strikers as being a greater threat than top wrestlers. It’s Mir and Carwin that can’t stop talking about Brock.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
I like Dos Santos but...
Does he really think that he wouldn’t end up on his back? And aside from that, Brock would definetely have a punchers chance, just like anyone else…
by allamerican on Jan 8, 2010 9:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Future Champion
I don’t see any holes in this guys game. We haven’t seen his ground game yet but I can’t imagine he’s training with the Nogeira brothers and doesn’t have a ground game. No one can stand with him in the HW division. He’s a monster.
Agree, knowone
Without Brock, I think this guy is set to hold the belt for a while. Nog won’t be winning it, so JDS is free to go for it.
JDS is top 3 in the UFC today.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I wouldn't go that far knowone it's premature to say no one can stand with him
Future champion? Could be he’s a great fighter no doubt but like Carwin he has questions about his ground game even though he most likely has good JJ. As well he has not fought a top fighter that uses the ground game yet. The two best fighters he has beat are both strikers that use little ground game. two major questions Like T.Silva he may have great stand up but how’s his ground game and hows his endurance neither have been tested by a good fighter as of yet.
He's already KO'd 2 grapplers in Werdum and Struve
Werdum may have turned up in flabby shape but he is an ADCC champion and is world class on the ground whilst Struve has some very nice submissions as well, neither of them could even get JDS to the ground and were both smashed in a combined 2 minutes. He’s already faced and destroyed top competition and the only question mark is his wrestling, if he can develop a quality sprawl then the likes of Cain and Carwin, both of whom have been rocked by lesser strikers, won’t be able to beat him and if Brock does return then JDS will be his toughest opponent.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
You might be right David
But honestly Werdum was not strong enough to take down a fully charged JDS one of Werdums biggest weaknesses in my mind is his strength compared to the best HW in the world he’s a solid all around fighter but he lacks strength and KO power. Struve is up and coming we have yet to see the best of him and he was not are is yet a elite fighter.
Take Cain for example JDS will work him standing no doubt but cain has twice as good takedown as Werdum and if he’s able to make a similar fight against JDS as Evans did against Silva and wear down JDS and limit and weaken JDS strikes? How about Mir who is a smart fighter and can find a weakness in JDS’s game wich was used on JDS’s training partner NOG.
All in all JDS needs to fight one of those guys ASAP I would prefer to see if Mir wins and NOG wins their rematch and JDS taking on one of the losers but if NOG loses I would like to see him face Cain then the winner of the Mir and Carwin fight. Right now I still have Mir and NOG infront of JDS and you can put JDS, Carwin and Cain in any order right behind them.
Mir beat Nog because Nog stood there and took punches, whether it was the staph infection or not it was a terrible performance from Nog and Mir only had to use the same 3 punch combination over and over again to win the fight. JDS would be far tougher on the feet, he is a much better striker than Mir and Frank has poor takedowns as well, plus he folds when he takes punches.
Cain would be his toughest test as he is a superb wrestler and athlete, unlike Carwin and Mir there is no chance of him gassing in the fight. The big question mark with Cain is his chin and punching power and JDS would be a bad match up for him in my opinion as if JDS lands then Cain will go down. It all depends on how good JDS’ sprawl is, if he can keep fights with Cain, Carwin or Mir standing then he will KO all 3 of them.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Very well could I'm excited thinking about the Hw divisions future match ups thats for sure
I’m not as sure as you though that JDS will beat all those guys though are even with ease if it reamains standing. Mir now that he is focused looks great and he has the size to go with his talents, and Carwin well Carwin we all know he can end the night with one punch he may not be as technical as JDS but if JDS leaves himself exposed when striking striking and not KO Carwin himself it could be lights out. As well Carwin does have a wrestling back ground and JDS may be one of those fights Carwin might prefer to take to the ground? I agree with you mostly but I don’t think it’s near a guarantee in any of those guys.
Agreed
Finally everyone is getting behind this guy, JDS is for real and I’ve been a fan since he smashed Werdum. He has looked unstoppable so far and is easily the best striker in the HW division (Cheick Kongo ha please….), training at Black House MMA will do wonders for his career. I’ve never seen his BJJ but he started training in BJJ before boxing and that was with the Nog Bros so he has to have some grappling skill. I don’t know what his wrestling is like as he hasn’t faced the top wrestlers like Brock, Cain or Carwin but if his BJJ so it’ll be interesting to see how he copes against them but right now he looks to be the top HW prospect in MMA.
With Junior’s handspeed, accuracy and power he can KO any HW in MMA, even Fedor, I have so much faith in him and I guarantee that he’ll be a future HW champion.
I’d give him Cain if he beats Big Nog or the Mir-Carwin winner if Big Nog wins, it’s Junior’s time to shine and he deserves a big fight with title implications. I’m confident that he’d KO Mir, Carwin and Cain.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Add....
Nog and the rest of the HW division(not named Brock) and you are on to something here. He would probably even beat my boy Brock, but I won’t ever say that out loud.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
He would beat Nog but they won't ever fight so it's not worth discussing
I’m not sure if Brock will ever be back but if he is he’ll end up getting KO’d by JDS at some point, Brock’s striking isn’t the best and I doubt that he’ll ever be the monster that he once was. Even if he is at his best then there’s a good chance of a JDS KO win if he has a world class sprawl.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
C'mon jay
Before brock found out he was ill his camp was raving about how well his stand up training was going for the Carwin fight. yes talk is cheap but Brock with a improved stand up and improved ground game would destroy JDS.
I don't think Brock's standup will ever be as good any of the current champs
i say that simply because of his frame and body type. It’s not made for striking, he will continue to look mechanical due to his top heavy body, large neck/traps and disturbingly massive arms. extending and returning them orangutan arms takes time, and their sheer size makes short distance striking with hooks and inside shots awkward. He will probably never be someone who throws in combinations because of his power and the nature of striking in MMA.He will have to make up for this simply with power and other parts of his game. Maybe i am just talking out of my ass but can anyone think of a fleet footed striker with a similar body even in boxing or kickboxing?
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jan 8, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he would be a elite striker either at least not for three or four years of training
It just doesn’t happen over night but being a well defensive striker with powerfull counters is possible(Carwin that comes to mind with the straight). Brock could easily move with more speed than carwin or even the flat footed Dan Henderson. Brock needs just enougfh stand up to make him dangerous and able to open up takedown opportunities. Brock is always going to be mainly a ground fighter thats his home.
No matter how much Brock's striking improves it'll never be on JDS' level
JDS will always have the striking advantage over Brock, he’s been training in boxing for years and has outboxed K-1 champions like Cro Cop and Yvel. He’ll always have power but he’ll never have the technique of JDS, just as JDS will never have wrestling as good as Brock’s. No amount of training can make up for a lifetime of dedication to one martial art.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
LOL
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
dos santos is awsome! Any one else think he moved in a similar style to Anderson Silva in his last fight? The way he bobs from left to right always moving him hands….just me?
Its a bit shit kickin brock when hes down tho…he’s only trying to convince himself if he thinks fightin cro cop is harder than a fight with brock!
JDS barely mentioned Lesnar
All he did was show respect to Cro Cop, he didn’t say anything bad against Brock. That was just added to the title because Brock threads are guaranteed hits, especially on a Friday.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
i was at this fight
and it was awesome. glad to hear some props for cro cop, i hope he whoops up on ben rothwell
Cro Cop needs to fight some lower ranked fighters and try and move back up the ladder
If he beats Ben I would like to see him and Roy go at it.
Brocks big enough to defend himself!
He’s not exactly giving Brock Lesnar stick, he’s just stating his opinion, as someone who has actually been in the octagon, that he feels more danger from Cro Cop than he would from Lesnar! I think anyone who has beaten 4 of the UFC’s toughest guys the way Dos Santos has can say what they like about the rest of the division. Carwin and Velasquez have been muted as the next big things for the HW division for some time and I think Dos Santos is now on equal, if not higher footing in the division than they are.
I don't think he said anything bad about Brock either
He thinks that strikers are his biggest test, so what? He probably believes wrestlers don’t pose as big a problem to him as strikers with the power cro cop has, nothing wrong with saying that.
JDS is the future, not Barney or Brown Poop.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
How about your man Mir jay LOL
I think Mir and him would be a great match up one that would turn you into a a huge Mir fan LMAO>
Mir can't beat JDS.
never. I would love to see that fight though.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
People were saying Kongo was the most technical striker in the division......
And look what happened to him, and Mir’s ground game is good.
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
Good point tkkpal
Yvel is also known as one of the better strikers too I would like to see a Yvel and Kongo fight. But i also would like to see a Kongo and JDS fight? Standing against Mir I would give the advantage to JDS but it would be close but on the ground and in the grapple I would give it to Mir.
That Kongo stuff was BS hype
He’s always been terrible, I never bought into the hype for a second. JDS doesn’t care who he’s facing, he is always prepared to outbox his opponent, unlike Kongo who had his hands low looking to defend the takedown. If he can KO Werdum in a minute then I don’t like Mir’s chances and putting on weight then beating a loser like Kongo won’t make me change my mind on the guys talent, he’s the same man that got smashed by Brock.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Thats how good Brock is or was....
He would do the same to JDS David and probally be even worse on the ground. I don’t think JDS would last a minute with brock on top of him? Kongo rocked Cain and almost had him beat almost every fighter and announcer stating that Kongo is one of the best strikers since the Kongo vs Cro Cop fight that I can remember anyway this is not something that was stated for this one fight but for some time David by many. With Brock out of the picture JDS does have a chance but my money will be riding on the winner or the Carwin and Mir fight were I have money on Mir.
Kongo was all hype
Even when he beat Cro Cop he needed to knee him in the balls and that was after Cro Cop was coming off a devastating KO loss to Gonzaga. Kongo’s already lost to Yvel and other than Cro Cop hasn’t beaten any quality fighters. JDS managed to stop Cro Cop through superior technique, he didn’t need to cheat. KO’g Al-Turk doesn’t make you a world class striker.
Carwin’s a good prospect but one win over Gonzaga doesn’t make him world class, he’s still a good wrestler with devastating punching power who doesn’t train at a proper camp full-time. Mir talks like a champion but doesn’t perform like one, he’s got a dangerous guard and his hands are improving but he still has piss poor wrestling and won’t be able to outbox someone as good as JDS.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Beating Cro Cop right now does not make you world class either David
I agree with you on the Carwin he has a lot to prove but I feel the same goes for JDS like I said about CC, Yvel good fighter but has never beat a elite i put him on the same class as Gonzoga. JDS and Carwin both dangerous fighters that are up and coming by the sounds of it more are going with JDS as being the better out of two and maybe this is true, I think him and Carwin would be a wicked match but I believe Mir will win so we might not get to see this but if Mir and NOG both win we should see the rematch many are waiting for. As far as Mir having piss poor wresling? Against Brock yeah aainst Carwin we will find out against JDS are NOG his wrestling is just as good.
Mir proved against Vera and Cruz that he has piss poor wrestling
Brock just confirmed what many already knew. Carwin could take Mir down as well though that would be pretty stupid unless he’s been working on neutralising Mir’s jits, he has to pin down Mir’s arms like Brock did before using ground and pound, then Mir will give up as usual.
Outstriking Cro Cop and Yvel is damn impressive, making one quit in the third round and KO’g the other is even more impressive. He has far superior boxing technique to Carwin, all he has going for him is pure power and against someone with JDS’ speed and footwork that won’t matter. Out of all of the HW contenders it’s JDS that is the one to watch, once all of this title mess is sorted he’ll be the undisputed champion with or without Brock.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
"Cro Cop is one of the best fighters"
JDS, is trying to start the Friday Funnies off right.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
As MIke Tyson said...
“It’s one thing to call out the devil, but it’s another thing entirely to face him.” He wouldn’t last one round with Lesnar, I’d put big money on that! Good punching power, but not a great ground game. This is mma, not boxing. Truthfully, in a stand-up match I GUARANTEE James Toney would beat him senseless pillar- to- post.
Calu
James Toney of today?
What do you know of JDS’ ground game?
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Yeah JDS would do well enough in the stand up to get the fight to the ground and finish Toney
Anybody that decided to just stand and fight with Toney would be foolish.
Even standing I don't see Toney being able to take the power of a few dudes
He’s way too old.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
So has Mohammed Ali and George Foreman
Would you also take those guys over Dos Santos? Your point is flawed.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Toney would KO most HWs if they stood with him
But he won’t KO JDS, that guy is good enough to be a professional boxer. He is too young and quick for older strikers like Toney to deal with, as was proven with his wins over K-1 stars Yvel and Cro Cop. JDS trains with world class strikers like Andy and is getting better all of the time, Toney is in decline and is looking to jump into a sport that he’s never competed in before. Other than Fedor, JDS is the last guy that I’d expect Toney to KO.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
PLUS
nobody has mentioned the difference between a 6 ounce MMA glove and a 10 ounce boxing glove, the difference is often getting KTFO in a fraction of the time, which could work for or against him. Also defending yourself is very different. If Toney is to be successful he’d have to forget most of what he knows and start again. Which he won’t!
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
I underestimated the deadly skills of one of the greatest HWs in the world, Frank Mir. I wrote that because I lost a bet but honestly, he really did impress me. I'm well on the Frank wagon
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 8, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
yea if Toney were to come out in a boxing stance he would be on ground as soon as he threw a right
even Guida could finish him on the ground
dude.....i am
i remember someone saying JDS definitely looked like he was in a fight backstage after the cro cop fight and didnt escape untouched.
i think cro cop could still be exciting. if he beats rothwell, give him yvel and let them beat the crap out of each other. id watch that.
Agreed, this is Cro Cop's year...
Alot of potentially good fights if he gets his shit together and KTFO Rothwell.
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
and JDS is probably showing respect to his trainer too. im sure nog told him the left high kick doesnt feel good. as i read somewhere on here or another mma site, nog has blocked a cro cop kick with his head before. he knows how it feels and im sure he remembers it.
Nog was two secs from being finished after getting dropped with CC's famous high kick............
He was saved by the bell!!
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
Classic fight
Nog got schooled in the first and looked done, then pulled off a superb comeback to submit Cro Cop. One of my favourite ever fights, it proved why Nog is the toughest man in the sport.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Yep, one great fight and my next fav which CC should of won............
Against Fedor and even he said CC was one of, if not his toughest challenge!!
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
If only Fedor never had that pointless fight with Goodridge
Then Cro Cop could have had a crack at Fedor before Nog showed how to beat him. Oh well, at least Nog got to have a classic comeback.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
I can see it now........
CC beats rothwell, then KO’s Yvel, then a re-match with JDS, finishes him and then back in the mix……………………Well a man can dream anyway but not out of the question!! WAR FILIPOVIC!!
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
what is CC doing now
If you could find him I bet he’s doing something that isn’t related to prepping for his next fight.
He might still have skills and durability but he just doesn’t show any desire…
JDS is oozing it. CC and Rothwell is an interesting bout, I think Ben wins personaly.
"He wants to get in close and use that reach advantage" - Mike Goldberg
"Half of this game is 90% Mental" - Tim Sylvia
"I have two words for you... Destiny" - Diego Sanchez.
Anyone interested in a dumbest MMA quote of all time poll?
If CC does not win convincingly then he should hang them up before he hangs himself.
Just one more highlight reel finish and i’ll be happy. When I saw him dropped like that against GG then I knew it was the beginning of the end of a legend, I just can’t digest it!! The man used give me chills, the intimidation, the technique, the finishes he used to do, fucking awesome!!
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
he should be able to hang with the Kongo's and gonzogas for sometime regardless of what happens
keep him in stand up fights if I was the UFC.
And have some good MMA fighters lose to a dude that won't be around long?
Not a good strategy for building your fighters. Put him against ground fighters and rub it in the faces of boxing fans.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I think from now on I will not Defend Broc or GSP.............ok jay!!!
War Hardy AND War Mir!! lol
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
Cause I wasn't being nice to CC
That’s ok pal. You’ll be back defending those two guys soon. You like them both too.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
I like them ya, but for different reasons.......
GSP answers so many questions for me as a fighter, one of them being that practice makes perfect and he is without a doubt a true mixed martial artist!! Broc is entertaining, that is it for me as far as he is concerned. IMHO I would like to see Mir beat him if they fought again, Mir has impressed me lately and I just don’t see him losing any time soon and if he does I’ll eat humble pie. I can’t take to Hardy for some reason so hope GSP KO’s but he is by no means my favourite fighter.
I"m no Ned Flanders punk!!
You think Mir can beat Brock because he beat Kongo?
Mir would get smashed again. Brock fixed his holes, Mir has nothing for him. He is too slow and too weak to fight Brock.
I know what you mean about Hardy. He is hard to get used to. But I like that edge he brings with him every fight. He is so pumped up to lay leather on someone before a fight. He also impresses me when he is underneath someone. When Davis was trying to LNP him, he didn’t sit there making Josh Neer faces, he tried to get up. I like his attitude.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
ZZZZing.
Not nice, pal. You know how us fans are suffering right now. No need to kick a fan when he is down. LOL
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
If those guys can't beat the Cro Cop now they never will be contenders just good fighters
I would like to see a kongo and Cro Cop rematch? And if Cro Cop wins two in a row a CC vs Yvel fight. It’s great business having good fights doesn’t matter when the dude is leaving.
Glamis
I meant throw the fact that pussy MMA fighters can smash boxers. Just by taking them to the ground.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
not elite boxers
it would always look like Rumble vs Tommy Spears.
But average boxers would get tapped 90% of the time
"He wants to get in close and use that reach advantage" - Mike Goldberg
"Half of this game is 90% Mental" - Tim Sylvia
"I have two words for you... Destiny" - Diego Sanchez.
Anyone interested in a dumbest MMA quote of all time poll?
Whatever!
If Brock comes back, and at 100%, he’s gonna continue to improve and “Donkey Kong” folks! And Dos Santos will be as helpless as Mir was! After the fight, Mattel will make a “Dos Santos” action figure! Because Brock will “toy” with him and treat him like a ragdoll! Because Brock will make it look like fun, people will like what they see and go out to buy the toy for themselves!
by Dana's a Crossdresser on Jan 8, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions
Not a Brock fan, but...
These guys should stop bothering this guy! He is sick and doesn’t even know when he is coming back. How exactly is Crocop more dangerous than Brock? With all due respect, but the Brock that fought Mir at ufc 100 would GnP Dos Santos to death.
brock needs to give all these guys the middle finger after he beats them
none of these chumps have ever shown him an ounce of respect, except for randy, and deserve to get laughed at after he beats them. brock was very classy towards randy. he shows respect when he is given it.
an apology and “respect” after lesner whoops your as isn’t a sign of class. lesner has shown far more class by actually backing up what he says imho. the rest of these guys are just pretenders.
by Conan the Barbarian on Jan 8, 2010 3:05 PM EST reply actions
LOL yeah How would he know what kind of jitters he would get from brock? He never faced him?
If a fight was signed for him to fight brock he probally would retract his statement.
He said fuck all about Brock
All JDS did was talk about a legend in Cro Cop and did so in a very respectful and dignified way, I bet he was just randomly asked to compare facing Cro Cop to Brock by some garbage reporter looking to cause trouble. JDS is a class act and even here didn’t say anything bad about Brock, unlike Mir and Carwin he’s not obsessed with the guy and wasn’t the one who brought him up in this interview.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
"lesnr is the champion and a very tough fighter"
it’s called paying the CHAMP some fucking respect!
none of these guys show lesner any, so i can’t blame him for showing them none after he kicks the shit out of them. these clowns (mir and carwin) act like lesner owes them something after he proves them wrong……. sorry son, you just got your ass whipped by a better fighter, now go fuck yourself, maybe you shouldn’t run your mouth so recklessly.
brock showed respect to randy because randy gave brock that same respect.
dos santos may not be overhyped, but he certainly insn’t underhyped. brock would crush, i repeat, crush him. show a little love for the champ. all of these guys pretend like he either doesn’t exist or that he isn’t legit. mirs face after their last fight looked legit enough for me.
by Conan the Barbarian on Jan 8, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Brock’s the man and Mir and Carwin both deserve everything that they get from Brock after what they said (if you can’t take it then don’t say it) but JDS didn’t say anything bad about Brock, all he did was pay a legend some respect. Of course Brock is great, if he wasn’t then he wouldn’t have schooled Mir, Herring and Couture in his first 5 fights, he has superb wrestling and vicious ground and pound. JDS would be the toughest fight for Brock in the UFC if he ever does return (and if Fedor never signs) as he’s never faced anyone as good at striking as Junior and if JDS does to Brock what he did to Cro Cop in this picture then Lesnar will be done, after his recent illness the last thing that Brock needs is to take a brutal body punch from a world class striker.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
i agree that what he said wasn't that bad, but it is the cumulative direspect that gets me
i don’t think a body shot from dos santos would hurt lesner like it did a washed up cro cop. i think lesner owns him easily with GnP. but until then who knows…….i just wish people would leave brock’s name out of their mouths until he can fight. would a “get well soon” have killed jds?
by Conan the Barbarian on Jan 8, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Conan...
The reason that Brock doesn’t get much respect from fighters (and a lot of fans) is that he was walked into the title because he is a big draw from his fake fighting days.
JDS already has wins over Verdum, Struve (sp?), Crocop and Yvel and is looking at at least one, if not two more fights against top of the line fighters before he gets a title shot. So he’s basically looking at 6 wins in a row against some of the best fighters and prospects in the biz.
Compare that to Lesner, who got gifted a “title” shot against a ring rusted, undersized, old as f*** Randy (who isn’t the same since the layoff) that was out of turn. The returning champ is supposed to fight the interim champ upon his return (I’m sure Lesnar will fight the interim champ if he returns, even though Randy didn’t get to). Somehow Lesnar got the “title” shot with only a LOSS TO MIR and a DECISION over Heath “born to lose” Herring (who had just lost to jake O’Brien…whoop-whoop). 1-1 record with the only win over a guy who lost to O’Brien. Ummmm……yeah.
So yeah, if I was fighter that had been kicking ass and fighting true legends, top veterans, great prospects, etc., I would be pissed too that a fake fighter got a title shot with a record worth piss against a guy who was prone to lose.
BROCK HAS A LOT TO PROVE….deal with it. And probably won’t get to.
I hope he is healthy enough to live a comfortable life. He is a father and all. But I am kind of glad that it is looking like he is out of fighting. The sport is better off without him. The sport needs more well spoken intelligent athletes not screaming disrespectful former fake fighters which really just aligns the UFC with the WWE.
ll true, but brock doesn't have anything to prove, he's already done it.
he has fought nothing but top level competition since he started in the ufc. are you suggesting the lesner is the hw champ because he beat randy? name any of the last ten ufc hw champs that could beat lesner at his current level?
say what you want about him as a man, but as a fighter he is one of the best hw’s in the world if not the best. jds is still a spec compared to him. i doubt if jds was thrown in against the competition that lesner faced he would have done so well.
by Conan the Barbarian on Jan 8, 2010 8:42 PM EST up reply actions
Herring was coming off a win over Kongo
The HW tournament was done to make money, Randy needed a big name to defend the title against and Big Nog and Mir were already set to film TUF and fight on the end of year card. The only guy that got screwed was Werdum as nobody else had earnt a title fight either but by taking the huff, demanding too much money and getting smashed by JDS he proved that the UFC made the right decision.
Brock is great for MMA, he’s talented and is a huge draw, arguably the biggest draw in the sport today. Beating Herring, Mir and Couture in your first 5 fights is damn impressive and even the defeat to Mir was controversial (the BS stand up cost Brock the chance to KO Mir). Being happy that someone is out of the sport is a pretty shitty thing to say other Dave, I’m not happy at all that his career is in jeopardy and it’s pretty hypocritical to talk about morals then act pleased that a fighter could be done.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
Good luck at the obvious awards...
And the award for the most obvious statement goes to….David WS. Yes, we all know that it was money that was driving Lesnar getting an out of turn shot at the title. That’s why fighters who where earning their way up the ladder are so frustrated by a guy who was 1-1 getting a shot so fast…money. We know why but if you were a top prospect wouldn’t you be frustrated?
But what was the rush to do a tourney anyway? Randy could have waited 4 months for the winner of Nog Mir (they fought 1 month later and then 3 months between fights) In every other organization when a champ returns and there is an interim titleholder, they fight next. The UFC wanted to give Brock the easiest path to a title because he has short term money making ability. However, they have compromised the legitimacy of MMA as a sport that they so desperately have been trying to establish. By jumping all of the other athletes for a guy who is merely famous shows they are more interested in money than true competition that you have to earn.
And another thing, is it really a good thing to bring in WWE fans over the MMA? Pro wrestling is still considered a farce by the mainstream. Now the real mainstream sports world will see MMA as something of a distant cousin to WWE instead of something on a path to popularity like baseball or football. Look at the numbers. The growth has slowed. That’s the first step towards a downward spiral. The next is the plateau. And then the eventual down turn. And the growth has slowed. Look at the the sales since the boom started 3-4 years ago. It is about to plateau.
I also don’t think Kimbo is good for the sport and wish him out of it, too. I’m not saying that they should he hurt or without money. Brock has enough cash that his great grandchildren are set. BTW, when did I say anything about morals. Some of you are so blinded by Brock love that you aren’t even reading the words that anyone who is critical of him are typing.
As far as Herring…LOL. He only had a SPLIT decision against Kongo, a loss to Nog (even though he landed a golden bullet of a kick, but didn’t have the balls to finish it, really tough competition), a DECISION against Imes (Really? He couldn’t put away Imes?!?). Oh, and the loss to a jake O’Brien, whoever that is. Do you really what to hang the validity of Brock getting a title shot on a victory over Herring? Really? Before you say it, Nog earned his with victories over prime (and juiced) Barnett, Werdum, prime Crocop, former UFC champ Ricco, Hendo, K1 legend Schilt, former UFC HW champ Coleman, not just beating Herring (for a third time). There’s just no comparison.
As far as the Mir loss. Sorry, I saw Brock hit him in the back of the head. That’s what happens when you do that. They stop and take away a point, especially when it’s your first fight under new org. THEN HE TAPPED. Not a bad judges call, not an early stoppage, HE TAPPED OUT. He’s lucky the same didn’t happen when he hit Randy in the back of the head (I saw that too), if you really want to talk about controversial outcomes.
Sorry Brock has a lot to prove. Beating an undersized, ring rusty, old Randy (clearly out of his prime), a loser like Herring and a split with Mir doesn’t really prove much to people who don’t suffer from Brock love blindness. Sorry that ‘s just how it is. That’s why Dana want’s him to prove himself against Carwin (again an out of turn title shot for the benefit of the golden Lesnar). Dana wants to prove he can beat guys of equal size, so he was going to give him a guy with one legit victory. Another descrepincy in the HW division made by the money guys and not by wins and losses.
and another thing Conan...
you say, “name any of the last ten ufc hw champs that could beat lesner at his current level?”
Let me reply to you this way. I think there are 5 or 6 guys who are in the HW division now that can do what Lesner has done. they just weren’t gifted the chance to do so, like Lesnar was. Randy left because he knew there was no future for him in the HW division. Herring is a joke. And while Mir is good, even very good, he isn’t unbeatable. In the UFC Carwin, Cain, JDS, Nog, GG, even Crocop, Buentello, and Yvel all have it in their skill sets to beat Herring, Randy (now), and Mir…. and Werdum, Arlovksi, Barnett, Overeem of course Fedor outside of the UFC.
If any of those guys can beat Mir, Randy (now), and Herring would you think it was such an amazing accomplishment. Vera beat Mir, and Randy (we all know it), and plenty of guys better than Herring. Is he the god Lesnar is made out to be? I’m not saying Vera is better than Lesnar, I’m saying he has accomplished about as much as Lesnar.
There is only one way to find out if Lesnar can beat all the guys you asked about. Until then, he has something to prove. He has only done what a ton of other HW’s can also do. He might be able to do it. And I will be impressed. He just hasn’t he has to prove he is really worthy of the title that he was basically given.
5 or 6 guys? Can walk into a sport after a year of trying it
and beat Randy Couture and Frank Mir? Bullshit.
I’ve already had these discussions with you before, your hate for Brock is obvious. You can’t see talent, so you talk about records a lot. You say Mir and Brock are even. There really is no point in talking to StrikerDave if Brock is involved.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
And there is no point...
And there is no point in talking to most of you when Brock is involved. Right back at you.
You never contest my arguments, you all just say that everything is “obvious”, LOL. Fighters don’t get more credit because they are new. I can just see it. Goldberg during a brodacast," Wow, Lesnar just beat Herring, and because this is only his second fight in the UFC we are going to give Brock 10 wins for his record." LOL. You boys are hell bent on giving Brock more credit than he is due. He won 3 fights…. period….that 5-6 other HW’s could have won.
Sorry boys, you cant contest the fact that all Brock has done is get a split with Mir and beat way out of prime Randy. Whether it was his first 5 fights or not, those wins are just only as valid if he had being doing it for longer. Does anyone give Carwin more credit for beating GG because he did it his 11th fight, then say Randy did it in his 20th? NO. Sorry. A win is a win. And we’ll never know if anybody could do get those (overrated) wins in a shorter amount of time because the UFC will never walk anybody to the title like that again. So you can speculate all you want. The FACTS are that Brock has three wins, that nobody would be shocked if ALL of the other guys that I mentioned had gotten over the last couple years,
Don’t get me wrong ,it’s a great start but 3 wins that lots other guys could have gotten isn’t going to convince anybody (anyone logical at least) that Brock is “is one of the best hw’s in the world if not the best.” LOL.
And what do you know Puckhead?
Your the one that thinks “Crocop was always an iffy fighter”. Again, you PUCKHEAD, never argue my points, you just criticize me and say I don’t know MMA when really it’s you that doesn’t know MMA. You said it yourself, you came over from the WWE when Brock did. So you’ve only been following it for a year or two. Sorry new fish, YOU don’t know MMA, you seem to think it’s like wrestling. “Brock was the youngest champ in WWE history”. DUMBEST QUOTE EVER. WWE is fake, anybody can be assigned a title in the WWE.LMFAO.
Try to argue my point. If any other fighter beat Randy now and Mir, would you think were the greatest in the world? Vera basically did it. Do you think he is so great? I know, I know, you’ll make the same argument that the other guys did (because you have no independent thoughts) but Brock did it early in his career. That’s already been addressed (a SPLIT with Mir and a set up with Randy after the layoff). Besides, you cant punish the other fighters just because they had to WORK their way up the ladder if they basically can win the same fights during the same time.
BROCK HAS ONLY BEATEN GUYS THAT A TON OF OTHER GUYS CAN BEAT BUT WOULDN’T GET THE SAME CREDIT FOR BEATING…why? Because you all are blind with love of Brock.
Can anyone argue the point in an airtight way that if other fighters beat the same guys over the last two years that they wouldn’t be considered the #2 HW in the world. Puckhead cant seem to.
Striker like I saids all you have is WWE agaisnt Brock and it's it's getting pathetic
The skills Brock has and the size and athlete he is are the reasons combined with getting the belt he’s ranked #2 in the world. When NOG, Mir, Couture and himself were all fighting to get the belt and Brock came away with it is the reason he’s rated higher than NOG#4, Mir#7 and Couture#3 at the time Brock was going to face Randy. Compared to AA, Rogers, and Tim those fighters were much better than what the #1 fighter in the world has faced in his last three SF. Those are the facts NOG is part of the equation SF because if he would of beat Mir he would of faced Brock but he couldn’t so Mir jumps ahead of him and of coarse Brock jumps ahead of Mir it’s not that hard for the majority of MMA fans that know anything to figure it out.
Hey Dave
Do you know of any other fighters that have beaten Frank Mir in the last 3 years? I can’t think of any. Hell, I can’t remember anyone doing well against him since Brock was power slamming dudes in the WWE.
Has to say something about a man’s talent, being able to pick up a sport and beat one of the best HW’s in the world, with only a year of training. But you’re right, Brock is just a big untalented lug.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Jay, are you of all people...
Jay, are you of all people trying to say that the split with Mir means more than it does. Really? Since he has only fought 5 guys in THREE YEARS…long time for only 5 fights. Why stop a the random number of three years? LOL. Mir has lost to Vera and Cruz in the last 4 years, only 3 more fights. When he fought Brock the second time he was 4-2 over his last 6 fights. Winning only 75% of your fights over your last few (and one of those was a win over Brock and the other was over a guy who was hospitalized 8 days, yes 8 days before the fight fight) is really not that impressive when you look at his competition in those fights. Nice way to gerrymander the stats.
The whole point is that MIr isn’t exactly impossible to beat.
Sorry he is going to have to beat more that two suspect guys and get a split with someone else to get the status that the posters on this site think he has obtained.
It was 5 fights in 2 years.
he hasn’t fought in 6 months(injured) and his first fight was in the summer of 07. That’s five fights in two years. Not a bad ratio for a guy who is learning. Don’t state the numbers wrong just to help your cause.
It was 5 fights in 2 years. Not 3.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Is Mir not top 5 either?
Name your top 5. I want to tell you what Brock would do to all of them. Brock is 2 right now, if Barnett comes back clean, Brock is 3. Nobody in HW MMA deserves a better ranking.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
actually you are the one guilty of gerrymandering jay...
And I was talking about Mir fighting 5 guys in the last 3 years. 2007, 2008, 2009…Mir fought only 5 guys. Not Brock.
Mir was only 4-2 over his last 6 fights going into the second Lesnar fight. His wins were over a recouping Nog, LESNAR, Hardonk (who cares) and some guy named Christianson. So setting aside the Nog fight due to his injury (as you guys like to look as more than wins and losses), the first Brock fight (which you all think was somehow affected by the ref, which is BS anyway), then he really only has wins over Hardonk and Chrsitianson….and losses to Vera and Cruz. Not exactly amazing is it? Since the second Brock fight, Mir has beaten the easily beatable Kongo (whoop-whoop). So I guess you have convinced me that Mir isn’t really that impressive either. I guess according to your logic, if the ref didn’t mess up the first Brock fight, and Nog wasn’t sick then Mir would be 3-5 with only wins over Kongo, Hardonk, and Christianson…..this is the general logic of this place in action. SO LOGICALLY, Brock has a split with a bum like Mir (according to the logic here), a worthless win over Herring, and a win over Randy since his “comeback” that doesn’t mean much.
" I want to tell you what Brock would do to all of them."
LOL…I mean LMFAO. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What are you going to say…Brock would give he a REAL beatdown. Wow. Convincing argument. Since you cant prove what Brock would do to any of those guys, why don’t you save your guesses for the bookie. Fedor, Nog, Barnett, Arlovski, JDS, and Cain can all be argued as having accomplished more than Brock. Too bad Brock hasn’t proved it against any of those guys. And likely won’t be able to. Like I said save you guesses for someone else.
Watching fights and not reading numbers.
Everything you say can be easily looked up on Wikipedia. Your opinions sound like someone who isn’t watching the fights, and just looking up records. You can’t rank Nog higher than Brock after watching them both fight Randy, Mir and HH. Brock dominated all three of those guys-Nog struggled or loss to all of them. Who else has an argument to be ranked higher than Brock? Anderson Silva has only fought at LHW twice in 5 years. Guess what? He is ranked! Highly, for the level of opponents he has faced.
Rankings and not history is what we are talking about Dave. Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter. This isn’t an 80 fight season where they rank the guys with the best records. Shut Wikipedia or Sherdog(wherever you get all you MMA knowledge from) down and watch the fights. Tell me who the better fighter is from watching them fight.
If MMA was a college sport and you were a scout. Who would you choose to fight for your school? After Fedor is drafted, the guy with the proven best skills(wrestling has proven to be very successful at HW, Small piece of shit Randy used to dominate the weight class not to long ago) to dominate opponents would be the huge, quick, strong wrestler. That is why he is ranked so high. Just stop quoting records without giving your sources their due, wikipedia works hard to continue making you look smart.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
No...I watch them...
“You can’t rank Nog higher than Brock after watching them both fight Randy, Mir and HH. Brock dominated all three of those guys-Nog struggled or loss to all of them.”
What fights are you watching? I saw Brock hit Randy in the back of the head. Good Luck trying to prove to me that I didn’t see that. I also saw a Randy in much better shape against Nog than he was against Brock. I saw Nog pretty much handle Randy across the board. I also saw Nog looking slow and sluggish against Mir when he never has before or since (I have seen all of Nog’s fights, every one of them. I also read that he was in the hospital 8 days before the fight, was Mir in the hospital 8 days before he beat Brock?) I also saw BROCK TAPOUT against Mir. I saw it, right after I saw him hit Mir in the back of the head. I saw Brock use his weight to pin Mir in their second fight…as a wrestler I can say that I saw that. Sorry I watch ALL the fights, I just don’t see them through the “Brock goggles” that you do as a fan. Is is just possible that you are giving Brock more credit that he deserves because you are a fan? Is it? I don’t think any of that is on wiki? But good luck trying to convince me that I didn’t see any of that.
“Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter. "
Okay…they mean nothing…ummmm……huh? So when GSP lost to Serra, did you really think that Serra was better fighter? Even though he was “ranked” higher. Or… did you as an intelligent person (that’s not a rip, you are intelligent, unlike Puck) did you look at GSP’s record and then Serra’s record and come to a conclusion that maybe, just maybe Serra’s performance didn’t tell the whole story or did you believe that Serra was better than GSP right after that fight?
“If MMA was a college sport and you were a scout. Who would you choose to fight for your school? After Fedor is drafted…”
Easy…Nog. So what. Brock is a good prospect but still unproven. Nog is battle tested. What’s your point.
And BTW, I haven’t looked up one thing on wiki in ANY of our arguments. But why don’t you try to argue my points rather than try to say the sources are wrong. If I have been wrong about any fact that I have stated, please point it out. Try to at least.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC." by Puck Head on Jan 9, 2010 12:06 PM PST Ummmm....yeah.
Nobody is disputing the fact that Brock did land a couple of blows to the back of Mir's skull
But he was stopped and a point was taken away right away. No warning, nothing. The moustache won that fight for Mir, he was being dominated in that fight and the rematch. Love the sig, check mine.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. "-Puck Head, LOL.
Another thing jay that proves are point here as far as ranking goes
And striker made reference to Serra, who even though myself and most of the MMA world would agree GSP is the better fighter but because he lost luck or not he will be ranked higher than GSP and he was but as time goes on the rankings change and Serra is no longer a top five but he was ranked higher and rightly so over GSP. The difference between Brock and Serra though in my opinion is Brock when he comes back will keep his ranking in the top five as long as he keeps fighting. Itès not a fact Striker itès a opinion but as far as Brock being ranked above NOG, Mir or any other UFC fighter right now he has to be ranked higher until someone can beat him for the belt.
"If MMA was a college sport and you were a scout. Who would you choose to fight for your school? After Fedor is drafted…"
Actually if brock was still healthy and right now we got to pick from todays fighters to manage and only get paid by lets say their wins I would take Brock #1 in the HW division I think he can beat Fedor right now and is still improving! Fedor is at his peak or near his peak he has little upside but would be my next choice if Brock was gone. If Brock got into MMA when he was younger lets say five years earlier I think he would be the #1 in the world right now, and if Fedor would be in the same organization he would have to drop to LHW.
Oops...
By saying that Mazagatti really won the first fight and not Mir (and with legitimacy of Mir’s win over Nog in question), who has Mir beat? No one that good, then. Therefore if Mir hasn’t really beat anybody good…that that means that neither has Lesnar. Herring…bum. Randy (now) ….very beatable. Mir…no legit wins over top talent (by this logic). So tell me why Lesnar’s “accomplishments” are so impressive? What has he done if he beat three guys that can’t beat anybody of value now?
Lesnar fans should be trying to make is opponents sound more credible, not questioning the validity of their wins and just saying Lesnar got beat because he was inexperienced. You can’t have it both ways. Either Lesnar beats only bums or the loss to Mir needs to be legit.
However, I think the Mir’s win over Lesnar was legit. He got caught in a tight sub. Get over it. No warning…hah! If Brock doesn’t know the rules he shouldn’t be fighting. And HE WAS WARNED in the locker room. It’s part of the NSAC ‘s policy. But it doesn’t matter anyway, after the point was taken they restarted and Mir finished it off. Brock could have finished it off as well. It wasn’t a bad decision (like Vera & Randy or Shogun & Machida). It wasn’t and early stoppage. Brock had the same opportunity to win and he got caught. Too bad. Think of the brightside, it makes his later win over Mir more legit. Not enough for a # 2 ranking but better.
And I know rankings are opinions. I guess we are going to disagree on how those opinions are formed. Some think that rankings mean potential for future wins (in which case Cain, Cawin, and JDS need to be ranked higher) but other view the them as a combination of W-L record and the legitimacy of the wins i.e. accomplishments. I think Carwin is a throw away. He has DOMINATED EVERYONE he has faced faster than many see as possible. By one logic he should ranked #1…he has limitless potential and demonstrated dominance (like Brock fans say that Brock has done). However, I look at the circumstances and success of the fighters as well. Brock’s win over Herring and Randy (now) really mean very little. Just becuase he has a made up “title” doesn’t mean he is more likely to win future fights anyway. Fedor can lose at anytime…so can Brock. So the only real way to rank or place fighters is by their accomplishments. I feel that other fighters have done more against better competition. Really, if any body else beat Mir, Randy (now) and Herring would we be giving them high rankings? Not as high as number #2. It’s the hype and money that is adding to the ranking for Brock . And BTW, saying," All of the coaches/reporters rank all the players/fighters, than they take all those rankings and come to a census vote." is untrue. Rankings here or on other sites or publications are not on a consensus they are decided by one man, either an editor or the top reporter for the publication.
Puck, I know that was a typo. I just have to break your balls for that one…speaking of which….sorry jay.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC." by Puck Head on Jan 9, 2010 12:06 PM PST Ummmm....yeah.
"Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter" by jay. on Jan 9, 2010 12:57 PM PST Really? Wins and losses don't matter?
I don't mind you having what I said in your sig.
But to put it into context, the people you have those wins and losses over mean more than your record. Nog might be 35 and 4. But since he hasn’t looked good in 5 years, he won’t get a number 2 rank until he beats someone in the current top 5. If he beats Cain he might jump to 2, even if Brock is able to fight again.
From what you have seen of the top 5 guys in the past 3 years(post Pride) do you think any of these dudes has what it takes any more to stop someone the size and skill of Lesnar? Nog 5 years ago vs. Brock I would have taken Nog-not today.
Records don’t mean anything in these rankings. It might for other sports, but not MMA, not in every case. The point about the consensus rankings meant looking at all the different rankings…Anybody could average out the positions of each fighter. Since ALL RANKINGS have Brock at number 2-he would be the CONSENSUS number 2 fighter. WAMMA which is totally anti-UFC has him at number 2, and they are a committee choosing their rankings. Why does everyone rank him second but you. Obviously you don’t agree with the opinions of every MMA journalist, maybe none of them are seeing what you see.
Maybe since these rankings are usually pretty accurate as far as who the best fighters are-you should just agree with it. It seems to have been working for this long. I think their formula for judging talent is better than yours.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. "-Puck Head, LOL.
I just went back and reread the whole thread.
Man, dave you really hate Lesnar. I’ve never seen anyone so riled up about one fighter before. Why do you hate him so much? I haven’t seen you post complaining about any other subject on Mania before. Something about Lesnar sets you off, what is it?
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. "-Puck Head, LOL.
Striker the Consensus rankings have him at #2
The Consensus rankings is 20 or so sites ratings averaged into one. I agree they are not always right as there is no way of proving this guy is better than that for sure unless they fight. And the consensus rankings for fighters that fight in two divisions isreally off because for example they have Silva below Forrest in the LHW division because many sites donèt rank him as a LHW wich drops his consensus average. But anyway I hope Brock comes back and I will be able to tell you I told you so but until then your opinion is not going to change nor is mine. I think Brock right now can beat any HW in the world right now with his talents and size and athletisism wich is off the charts. Fedor had a little trouble with big Rogers and Brock has 20 times the skill on the ground and is bigger and stronger than Rogers. If you want to see Brocks training jusst go to you tube and search Brock Lesnars training itès insane between him Sherk, Couture and GSP they are all some of the hardest workers in the game.
Sorry guys ...
Jay, you are smart man. I do really dislike Brock. But it’s not like it’s random. Basically, I am huge fan of MMA. I really respect it as the exciting, fun, and complex sport that it is. I kills me when people belittle it as “human cock fighting” or ignorantly dismiss it as a “bloodsport”. Having wrestled, trained in Judo, and fought in two Muay Thai tourney’s I appreciate the work and risk that the guys and ladies who do MMA go through even if on a very, very amateur level. They are professionals that I really want to see get credit like say…golfers (who basically make millions for hitting a ball into a hole with a stick…whoop-whoop) .
So when guys like Kimbo get a lot of press, it really hurts the progression of the sport because the viewership that come to MMA to see Kimbo are looking for street fight type violence…not expert technique. It legitimizes street fighters.
Same with Tito. Even though he has been around a long time. I think he is actually a bad ambassador for the sport now. Him and his pornstar wife aren’t doing the sport any good when he is constantly running his mouth. And lying to promote fights. The public sees right through it and it comes off like scripted BS. Especially when he is winless in his last four fights yet the UFC promotes him by making him a TUF coach. For what? Some sort term cash. Long term he is a bad thing for the sport.
If there where more posts on those two clowns I would be more vocal.
Then there is Brock. A guy who the mainstream sports world still views as a WWE character complete with his wife Sable cageside. His antics after the big one (UFC 100) didn’t help the sport. The money guys at the UFC went and gave him a title shot against old ass Randy way before he earned it. This is equivalent to MLB placing the Dodgers in the World Series because have a huge fanbase and then they go and win it. Once you get the shot anything can happen and Matt Serra proves it can in MMA. So now we have a pro wrestler (in the yes of the mainstream) with incomplete credentials as HW champ. The public sees Lesnar getting to the top that fast and thinks it’s not that difficult. And it REEKS of scripting like the WWE, even though it’s not, but the public sees it that way. I saw a news report the other day where the reporter said, " the former WWE champ’ fighting career is in permanent jeopardy." I haven’t been able to get the vomit out of the carpet. Pro reporters outside out the MMA world are viewing MMA as some sort of extension of WWE…AND REPORTING AS IF THAT’S THE CASE. And now people in the MMA world are starting to believe the hype about his fighting. Even if he does have a prolonged run of wins the mainstream will always see him as a fake fighter. Even if he, Kimbo, and Tito do bring in lot’s of money to the UFC (not the sport as a whole) it shows the new viewers the wrong side of the sport. It make me sick. So that’s why I hate Lesnar so much.
As far as the rankings go, I don’t agree with the system. Maybe I am the only one saying “the emperor has no clothes” on this topic but he is naked if Serra gets a #1 ranking after one fluke fight. When he was #1, he was no more likely to win future fights and people with any sense knew it didn’t mean he was better than GSP. It just goes to show the system is flawed.
As far as Nog being ranked higher than Brock, yes, thats what I think. In even in their most recent fights, Nog has the same record against bet comp. (they both have a loss to Mir, and wins over Herring and Randy…but Nog has wins over Barnett & Sylvia compared to Brock’s wins over Mir & Kim). It’s real straight forward to me. I just don’t understand it.
Puck…wait…wait…yes….I am going to agree with you about something.“I agree they are not always right as there is no way of proving this guy is better than that for sure unless they fight.” GSP said there is only ONE way. Sorry for getting frustrated with you. Just a tip, stop making arguments like, “Brock has 20 times the skill on the ground”. You can’t back that up…just say he is better on the ground. We all get it. Where do you get 20 times? Or 99%…or my favorite, “everyone thinks that way” How do you know what everybody thinks? Own your statement yourself. “I think this way.” YES! People will respect you for it. Proof: I just agreed with you when you did.
So anyway, sorry again, I am just a huge fan and hate seeing the path that MMA appears to be on.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC." by Puck Head on Jan 9, 2010 12:06 PM PST Ummmm....yeah.
"Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter" by jay. on Jan 9, 2010 12:57 PM PST Really? Wins and losses don't matter?
by StrikerDave on Jan 10, 2010 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
Great Post.
The rankings will change Dave, this is just the way these guys see it now. If Brock is out another six months and they create an interim belt, he might not even be number 2 when he gets back. These rankings are dropped every month, and there is always big changes. Rankings mean nothing anyway, I can’t even try to defend them because they are often wrong(in my eyes).
I don’t care what Brock did before he fought. I stopped being a wrestling fan a long long time ago. I understand why you rank those guys higher than Brock and it is a legit argument, but like I said in your sig. Records don’t mean as much as opinion. Since these guys don’t use MMAMath to rank Brock over Nog-there past 5 fights don’t mean as much as how they looked in their last fight. Nog hasn’t dominated anyone in 5 years.
You’re a really good guy to talk to, when you aren’t insulting my fellow countryman Puck Head. Like I’ve said before-this site could use more knowledgeable fans like you Dave.
Also-you should start picking winners in the McArthur pool.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. "-Puck Head, LOL.
Isee the reasons you do not like Brock Striker
But its not Brocks fault with some of the less knowlegeable media and outside perspective thinks of MMA. Even on here there was many fans that believed the same thing too after his first fight and I was getting called a WWE fan and this and that by simply stating I thought he would do very well in the UFC with his wrestling background and tools he came in with, I know you dont think wrestling is the best base to start with(another debate I can get into with you) but it is a good base at the least to have combined with his speed, size, strength and attitude I thought he could compete with the best in MMA I was not sure at the time he would win but thought he would put up a good fight with his abilities.
He left the WWE were he made way more money to be a competitor and a remember ready this is what he was going to do I was pumped because earlier he tried out for football and Ièm a big football fan as well, I was thinking even though he was a great wrestler it was years ago being in the WWE there would e no way but I searched Brock on you tube and found out and seen that he even through in the WWE for years kept his weight training and some of his wrestling training up during that time and would have a chance but in football years he was to old to sign as a prospect. Brock is a competitor and leaving the WWE to try MMA and make much less money shows you his heart is there and when contacted by the UFC he asked to fight a good fighter right off the go to see if this was for him he didnèt want to go through the ranks because of his age wich is still young but with all the injuries he took in the WWE knows he might only be fighting for 4-7 years and if he was going to give up his WWE money wanted to know if he could handle a top fighter, the rest you probally know from here.
As he may bring negative media he also brings new fans to MMA there will be a bigger spotlight on him than other MMA fighters because of his WWE days. his antics will be shown by more media than those of Aoki and Tito or any other fighter for that matter.
PS watch out for his training partner in the future sounds liek he is going to go to Dream or Bellator but he has a great wrestling back ground and weighs 280+ as well, he is not as good an athlete but Ièm telling you as long as he has a solid strike that can do damage he should do well.
Right...
Not Brock’s fault but I wouldn’t like Lashley or any other former WWE guy either. Unless he paid his dues. Lashley sort is but I’m sure he’ll be fighting someone like like Fedor in 2 fights just to turn him into the Strikeforce version of Lesnar. More vomit.
I get that people are fans of him. Most of his fans are guys that like his potential, although there are lots of knucklehead fans as well.
“I know you dont think wrestling is the best base to start with”
I’m not sure where you get that. I don’t recall saying anything like that and I certainly don’ t feel that way. Are you stating what other people are thinking again? :o)
What is his training partners name?
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC." by Puck Head on Jan 9, 2010 12:06 PM PST Ummmm....yeah.
"Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter" by jay. on Jan 9, 2010 12:57 PM PST Really? Wins and losses don't matter?
Cole Konrad is Brocks partner I put up a fanpost
Cool we both (I know your going to hate this word but it fits well here lol) obviously MMA fans and will have different opinions sometimes. If brock comes back one of us will be able to tell the other I told you so. Just don’t get your hopes up LOL. And I do apalagize for being an ass I’m huge believer in Brock and have been taking a lot of heat from the day he entered and I honestly did not watch him in WWE I have been a huge MMA fan since Pride and Wandy is my all time fauvorite fighter he may lose but he’s the type that can beat the guy he lost to the next fight and brings it everytime and he’s one of the few non mma wrestlers I’m a big fan of.
I don't
I don’t mind wrestlers…i was one once. I mind “pro wrestlers”
“…and Wandy is my all time fauvorite fighters…”
That’s because Wanderlei is BADASS! He’s up there with Hannibal and Alexander the Great. He just destroys everything he sees…..well he used to. The Jardine fight is still one of my favs of all time.
"He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC." by Puck Head on Jan 9, 2010 12:06 PM PST Ummmm....yeah.
"Records mean nothing when ranking a fighter" by jay. on Jan 9, 2010 12:57 PM PST Really? Wins and losses don't matter?
You don't know and can't speak for the majority of MMA fans.
Stop pretending you can. Besides, didn’t you parent teach you just because a large group thinks that way doesn’t mean you have to? Why can’t you get that through your thick skull into your little brain. I DON’T CARE ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK… especially when it’s according to what you believe that EVERYONE else is thinking. LOL.
The fact of the matter is that Brock’s wins are over rated. I know the history of what DID happen. I am talking about the meaning behind the history. Save your typing unless you are going to bring something new than what we already know.
Fact: Brock has only three wins in the UFC.
Answer me this, if say…. Cain V. beat Herring (lol), Randy now, and Mir, would you be saying he is the best ever. No. So why do judge Brock against a different standard? Cain is fairly new as well, he just has to earn his shot, unlike Brock. ANSWER THAT QUESTION!!!!
As far as your saying that his skills make him the best…sorry I need proof. You can speculate that his skills are better but the fact of the matter,is that he has only three wins in the UFC. The same argument can be made about Nog. One can say he has better BJJ that Brock’s wrestling and therefore he should be ranked higher. You can’t argue either way because you cant prove it either way. You can dream all you want but with only three wins (2 over suspect fighters at this stage and a split with Mir) there just isn’t enough evidence that can be proven that shows Brock is so great. Your whole argument is based on his last fight. If he loses a fight in the near future will you say that maybe his skills were judged too early? No, you’ll have some excuse, or blame the ref, or blame his sickness. Fact is, you don’t have the proof. Becuase it doesn’t exist.
Sorry, Brock doesn’t have enough fights under his belt to PROVE he is so great, just three wins.
As far as me not knowing MMA. Have you evr wrestled in a state tourney? College? Have you studied judo, Have you been in a Kickboxing tourney. No you haven’t. You stated earlier that you can over to MMA when you started watching Brock. So you’ve only been following MMA for a couple years. I have been watching MMA for 8 years. So compared to me, YOU DON’T KNOW MMA. you’re the one who started that argument. Just like all of your other arguments, you don;t have ANYTHING to back it up with.
You say 5 or 6 other guys could do what Brock did
Like beating Frank Mir? Who else has been able to do that since he broke his legs?
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
Striker it's clear you have zero MMA back gorund
I wrestled for 5 years of my life and understand it and respect Brock for his real wreslting accomplishments. I’m a huge MMA wrestler fan I was a huge Barnett fan who by the way still fake wrestles to Henderson, KOS, Sanchez, GSP and so on. My fauvorite fighter of all time is not a wrestler but I like his style and thats Wandy. All in all yourt arguement from start to finish is some of tghe most ignorant MMA comments I have ever read you take the title for intro thats for sure. The fact that Brock has a great wrestling history combined with his size speed and athletisim make him a beast someone even fedor thinks would be a great challenge and many fighters such as Machida who has 100 time your MMA knowlege and not studies MMA but fights in MMA and is known by all his peers as one of the most intelligent fighters today believes Brock is even better than Fedor and should be ranked 1. now I don#t think he deserves to be ranked 1 yet number 2 is correct. Times change numbers change and peaples opinions change I#m done argueing with you on who should be ranked were because a lot of the ranking is based on opinion so you have yours and like most of the world I have Brock at 2. Like Barnett the WWE does not take away the obvious abilities and strengths Brock has. The fact you try and use the WWE against him shows how ignorant you are the WWE has nothing to do with his talents and everyone knows this. If Brock would of tried out for football 5 years earlier he would of been playing football but because he needed two or three years of development at his age was let go. Wrestling is one of if not the best base to have in MMA and Brock not only is a great wrestler but one of the hardest workers in the gym and in training the combo of everything is why he has done so well. He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. Your opinion is your opinion but I/m telling you it makes you look like a idiot.
Puck, Do you understand english...
“I was a huge Barnett fan who by the way still fake wrestles to Henderson, KOS, Sanchez, GSP and so on. "
Huh. What does that even mean? Did you misunderstand what I am saying? Not all wrestling is fake, just WWE…you F*CKING IDIOT! Brock is FAMOUS because of his WWE background (which is fake) not because of his college wrestling. There are lots of collegiate champs in MMA why don’t they all get title shots when they are 1-1?
I love when MMA fighters use great wrestling technique in matches. I wrestled in high school and in college scholarship and I have fought in Muay Thai tourneys. I know plenty about MMA. While you …are new fan. Sorry new fish, making dumb statement like “Crocop was always iffy” is proof you know about the las year or so. Sorry, you proved that yourself.
“All in all yourt arguement from start to finish is some of tghe most ignorant MMA comments I have ever read”
Which ones. You always make blanket statements like that but never back them up. I ALWAYS state why I think a certain way, you just say that because “EVERYONE” thinks a certain way is why you believe something.
“The fact that Brock has a great wrestling history combined with his size speed and athletisim make him a beast”
YOU F*CKING IDIOT. I have never said Brock isn’t good, I know about his background and size. I’m just saying that his so called accomplishments are over rated. God, what do I have to say to make you understand what my point is. I know you are impervious to facts about proving my point but your statements are making me believe that you don’t even understand what point I am trying to prove. I HAVE NEVER SAID BROCK SUCKS! I just believe he is over rated based on such a small amount of fights against suspect opponents. And state the facts to back up my beliefs. Thats it. You are some how confused and thinking that any one who dares to say anything against your lover is saying that he sucks. Jezzzuzzz. F*CKING READ.
“Machida who has 100 time your MMA knowlege and not studies MMA but fights in MMA and is known by all his peers as one of the most intelligent fighters today believes Brock…”
Stop there for a second. I DON’T CARE WHATOTHER PEOPLE’s OPINIONS ARE. Do you go along with what other people say always? I am saying why I disagree that he is considered the elite now. There isn’t enough evidence. Machida’s opinion isn’t evidence…it’s an opinion.
“most of the world I have Brock at 2.”
And most of the world thought the earth was flat at one time. What’s your excuse for not looking at the facts and figuring something out for yourself?
“The fact you try and use the WWE against him shows how ignorant you are the WWE has nothing to do with his talents and everyone knows this. "
YOU F*CKING MORON….I HAVE NEVER SAID that it his WWE experience has anything to do this his talent. WHY you so defensice that you misread EVERYTHING. I AM SAYING….that Brock wouldn’t have been bumped up to fight Randy if he was famous from the WWE days. WHY CAN’T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? Do you really think he earned a title shot by losing to Mir and beating a loser like Herring? Are you that stupid?
“Wrestling is one of if not the best base to have in MMA” while I don;t disagree, we all heard Joe Rogan say that…do you have any original thoughts?
“Brock not only is a great wrestler but one of the hardest workers in the gym”
How do you know…are you at the gym with him? Or are you going by what his trainers say? I’m sure they aren’t biased or anything. TRY, JUST TRY TO MAKE A STATEMENT THAT YOU CAN BACK UP.
“He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC. "
That sentence says it all. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAALMFAO>>>LOL>>>>>>HAHAHAAHA!
I missed that. Puck Head, you just got added to my sig for the biggest typo/brain farts in MMA history.
“He#s the WWE champ and with out a doubt should be ranked higher than any other man in the UFC.”
Dave the rankings (which is what we are trying to justify here) are all opinion based. They won’t base the rankings on records. These rankings are all based on majority opinion. It’s like choosing the all star team in MLB. All of the coaches/reporters rank all the players/fighters, than they take all those rankings and come to a census vote.
You don’t agree with the way the rankings are done, not that Brock isn’t the second best fighter in the world right now. Just that he should have to prove it. Well if he doesn’t prove it he will get bumped back down to a more accurate spot, they ranked him second based on his last couple of fights, they all agree it seems he would beat anyone ranked lower than him. That is how this ranking system works, it might change if Brock shows them something that changes their mind about him.
Frank Mir packed 30+ pounds of solid muscle onto his body in five months. Why hasn't anyone called him out for steroid use? Is it because he never wrestled for Vince McMahon? I give Mir credit for his taste in strippers/wives, not his fighting skills or his personality.
LOL yeah typo
Anyone with half a brain knows what I mean though only the ignorant will try and use that against me in a arguement. Striker just like you said you donèt listen to other peaple statements if they donèt agree with yours as Machida is a example so why would anyone listen to your opinion? Itès clear you donèt listen to anyone else itès whatever you think is not going to change no matter what your a lost cause as far as improving your ignorance. I donèt always agree with what fighters or others say but when a fighter like Machida, Fedor, Rua, Silva, GSP and NOG some of the greatest brains in MMA talk and I donèt agree I really listen to and rethink my opinion and I Im more likely to change my opinion over a fans opionion. To evolve as a human, fighter are you must learn to change your thoughts and opinions if you are unable to you will never evolve I guarantee no one is right all the time but your ignorant insults to others that donèt agree with you really proves your either still in high school are not well educated?
Stupid, stupid, stupid...
Lesnar with 4 FIGHTS total amateur or pro beat guys with over 100 professional wins to their credit. Lesnar is a phenom! Just accept it. Imagine how great he would be after 10-15 fights under his belt. He is an amazing talent-PERIOD. Accept it and get over it then move on.
Calu
It could be David but according to the quote
“Fighting Cro Cop gives me more jitters rather than facing Lesnar. is what was said? Yes he probally didn’t mean it the way it came out I agree he was just trying to be respectfullike said to CC.
Don't forget he doesn't speak English and these translations are usually pretty poor
That’s what happens when you ask a foreigner a stupid question, it’s just a cheap tactic to make controversy over nothing.
"Anderson Silva is the best fighter on the planet...any Anderson Silva fight that is on, people should be buying that PPV, not because he’s my fighter but you know what, he to me is like the Muhammad Ali of MMA...the UFC has been around since 1993, nobody (else) has 10 consecutive wins in the UFC. Anderson has had 10 fights in the UFC, only 1 has ever gone to a decision."
Ed Soares on why Andy is the best fighter in the world
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