Chuck Liddell: 'I have to go out on my own;' Wants four more fights
by MMAmania.com on Jan 26, 2010 7:28 AM EST
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Props: Las Vegas Review-Journal
Quoteworthy:
"I miss fighting and I want to fight, so that's what I'm doing. I'll keep arguing and (White) will keep arguing with me. I just have to show him that I can perform. I would like another fight and then I want another fight after. Hopefully, Dana's happy with my two wins and I get a shot at a contender and then a shot at a title. That's four fights and that's about as far forward as I've thought. I have to go out on my own, the way I want to go out. It has to be my decision. I'm not going to let fans or people that aren't that close to me and don't watch me train, don't see what I can still do, make that decision for me."
Former light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell talks about his future plans as a mixed martial artist. The UFC Hall of Famer was nearly forced into retirement after losing four of his last five fights and sustaining three brutal (technical) knockout blows during that span. He's been given another chance by his good friend and boss, Dana White, to see if there is anything left in the tank, coaching opposite nemesis Tito Ortiz on The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 11, which is scheduled to debut on Spike TV in April. Shortly thereafter, Liddell and Ortiz will hook 'em up for a third time. After that, "Iceman" wants three more fights, including a title shot if he can win three straight. Does Liddell, 40, still have what it takes to compete at the highest level or has he possibly taken to many shots to the head?
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really chucky!!
i don’t see you getting the best of tito this time around. IMO tito by tko
i’d love to see the chuck of old come back , but with his last five fights i just don’t think its gonna happen.
Machida would pick him apart! and Rua would beat him even more impressivly in a rematch! Griffin would be a good fight for chuck, chuck would have the chance of getting the KO and IMHO i doubt forest would be able to KO him . as far as the rest of the guys at the top of the LHW division i don’t see chuck doing so well , that is unless he somehow gets his “chin” back which is unlikely
Tito won't tko him simply he has deteriorated just as bad if not worse than chucky
They say power is the last thing to go – we’ll see when that giant target on tito’s shoulders start getting bombed on with overhand rights. The reason for chuck’s losses aside from a “weakened” chin are simply technical ones – “stop dropping that left hand.” His TD defense was still very good and his countergame was still there though a bit slowed. Tito lacks power and am pretty sure his broken back, shattered knee or whatever obligatory ailment will prevent him from putting chucky down.
Really i say after this fight – i say feed chucky to Jon Jones, sacrificial alter style. Just infuse all that marketability and definitely move him away from that prospect status into title contender.
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jan 26, 2010 8:28 AM EST up reply actions
Actually
I am not a huge Chuck fan but I think he could still be a contender if he wouldn’t be such a 1 dimensional fighter. In this day and age it is easy to prepare for a guy who only wants to box even though he knows how to wrestle and knows jujitsu but is scared of the ground and he also knows how to kick well but is again scared of the take down. Chuck just needs to use his entire skill set, I think that is his biggest issue.
by Edgecrusher71 on Jan 26, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he's scared
Chuck’s never been afraid of the ground. He just knows he fights much better on his feet. He’s got phenomenal TD defense and he even took down Wandy in their fight.
by Swedish Chef smerdy herdy verdy on Jan 26, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
But
he never stays there, he never uses it and it has shown it has not been in his favor to be 1 dimensional.
by Edgecrusher71 on Jan 26, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Hope ke kicks Tito's ass, but Retires after that cause I don't see him ever getting another title shot!!
Tito Ortiz: I think Chuck's lost a step, maybe i've lost a step also, but that's what makes the fight so exciting!
I assumed that’s why Dana gave him Tito. It’s a very winnable fight for Chuck and lets him go out in style.
The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful
b4 he does retire i wanna see him and franklin go at it
Every night i would pray to God for a new bike, then i realized God does not work that way, so i stole one and asked him to forgive me
Interesting comment and I agree
That would be a good fight to watch but I say Franklin wins that hands down…
by hairybumcrack on Jan 26, 2010 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
~
hummmm, four fights?? should be interesting..
chuck could actually win 3 fights in a row and challenge for the title.. a very possible outcome… his first fight is tito, and im pretty sure he will smash on tito again.. that only leaves him 2 fights away from a title shot..
chuck definitely stands a chance at beating guys like forrest, bonnar, cantwell, franklin, hammil, jardine[rematch], vera and/or the colman/couture winner.. imo- all wins for chuck.
having a 3win streak & being chuck liddell, he would get a title shot for sure!~
war~iceman!!!~
too bad shogun would hold him back from retiring the LHW champ..
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
He fought 2 straight contenders
and lost By KO
man i hope he calls it quits and takes that UFC Party manager position
by TheBiggertheyare... on Jan 26, 2010 7:52 AM EST reply actions
one prob stinky
shogun is NOT the champ and won’t be anytime soon
so what you meant was machida will hold him back from retiring champ
and i don’t think he can take randy again, and jardine would kick and run again IMO
Machida already lost to Shogun
It was easy to see that Shogun got ROBBED in that fight by the judges; when he beats on Machida again and hopefully this time finish’s him we can put this “Machida Error” to rest.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 7:58 AM EST up reply actions
really ....
the fight i seen ended with machida winning a UD over rua making him 16-0
machida is going to shut off rua’s lights this time around!! the best rua against possibly the worst machida couldn’t get the W so i really doubt he is gonna do it this time IMO machida comes in the best we’ve seen him and rua is going to be looking for a finish this time and leave himself open
"the fight i seen"
Then you’re blind; Shogun won that fight hands down go to fightmetric.com look up the stats and see how your boy got out struck 2-1 by Shogun. Lost every rd except for 1 and no that was probably the BEST Machida you’ve seen in action up against a bad ass fighter who was too much for him. I been saying it since he fought Ortiz and got all hyped up; Machida is OVERRATED.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
Shogun! Shogun
i love Ch6uck, but lets keep it real…Ch6uck was anothh6er over rated zuffa creation tailor made to beat UFC wrestlers!
I want to see Liddell vs. Cro cop.
~
ive wanted to see liddell vs cro cop since 2004.. too bad it never happened around 2005, that would have been a fight to remember..
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
by stinky~fingers on Jan 26, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
That would've been
A really really short fight with Chuck getting brutally KO’d by a head kick cause he keeps his hands so damn low.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
~
not a 2004/05 chuck..
imo- chuck would have, and would still lose to cro cop, but i wouldn’t say it would be a really really short fight.. i would think it would have gone late 1st or early 2nd, just to see who gets the timing first.
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
by stinky~fingers on Jan 26, 2010 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
I never want to see either of them fight again
Chuck and Cro Cop are done but just don’t know when to quit. The only thing that continuing to compete will do is shortern their lives. Honestly Chuck already sounds like he has some sort of brain damage now, he mumbles his words a lot more now than he did in the past and he hasn’t looked right in a long time. He’s a flabby mess who’s speed, power and accuracy has gone and without that skillset he has no offense or defence, a good sprawl and being able to get off your back is not enough to sustain a career against top LHWs.
Cro Cop is finished as well, since the Gabe defeat he has become too tentative and is just a walking punching bag at a weight class where he’s outsized by everyone. He’s taking his defeats hard and has sounded suicidal. Neither of them should be fighting again and if they continue to do so after these next fights then I fear for their future health and wellbeing.
Chuck is like Hatton right now, both are in awful shape and have suffered brutal KO defeats but they’re too stubborn to listen to anyone else and still think that they can win a world title. Both of them need to look at the state of Ali to see what happens when you stay in a combat sport for too long.
Chuck and Cro Cop in their day were world class and both are legends of the sport so it’s sad to see them still trying to recapture their past glory and fail time and time again. There is no good reason for either of them to continue and I’m never going to be comfortable seeing them fight again. Neither of them should be encouraged to fight again in my opinion and sooner or later the athletic commissions are going to have to step in and tell them that enough’s enough before something tragic happens to either of them.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
Cro Cop Is the man David, I thought I told You this already.....
Tito Ortiz: I think Chuck's lost a step, maybe i've lost a step also, but that's what makes the fight so exciting!
Cro Cop was the man
The passion has gone, I’ll be amazed if he ever KOs a relevant HW again and at this point I just fear for the man’s health. Same with Chuck.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
W-S
Very well said, I agree with you on all counts. Although I do see Chuck/Tito as a rather safe bet for Liddells brain safety sake anyways.
I’m very impressed with the threads of yours that I read. I was shocked to learn your not yet 20 or just recently turned it if I remember correctly.
Well done young man.
(lol young man! Look at me in all my glory of being 26) ugh.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 10:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha young man coming from a 26 year old
Cheers mate. I’m 20 in 2 weeks by the way.
Tito is a safe opponent and it wouldn’t be as worrying if Chuck decided that win/lose this was it but instead he is looking to take more fights after Tito and make another run at the title. Even LHWs not known for their power like Forrest and Franklin would be a threat to Chuck at this point and it’s no guarantee that he’ll beat Tito either. Jardine would also beat him in a rematch and any other LHW contender would destroy Chuck in devastating fashion and put his long-term health at serious risk.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
Wow. Your opinion is dead wrong, John G. I am not a Chuck maniac but he deserves every bit of recognition that the UFC has thrown his way. Chuck is one of the few UFC fighters who def was NOT overrated.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
i LOVE CHUCK AS MUCH AS ANYONE, BUT i DONT LIKE HOW HE WAS BILLED AS THIS LEGENDARY STRIKER, WITHOUT EVER BEATING TOP STRIKERS.
oNLY STRIKERS HE EVER BEAT WERE, A PRE’’-PRIME aLISTAR AND A MENTALLY BROKEN VITOR!
sEEING HIM ko GRAPPLERS WITH NO STAND UP OR TAKEDOWNS GOT OLD TO ME!
He was great at his time
He’s lost it now. We are talking about the old days. When he was almost untouchable.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
I don't think that the Overeem example is valid. Overeem was a pure striker and had the reach on Chuck. If Overeem was too green to be in the ring then that's his mistake.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
If we were to revamp every fighter's record then no one would be up to standard. Fighters fight whoever is put in front of them. I am not a fan of this revisionist history stuff when it comes to fighter's records.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Eh?
I’m not revamping I’m saying looking at his rec is misleading as a lot of those losses came to some really great fighters.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
OD, my posts are strictly directed at John G.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
o lol
Fine be like that :P
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Nah that was a legit win
Overeem was one shotting people to the body with knees and Chuck took like 10. Also Metzger was a great fighter; his rec is underrated as he was always fighting some tough bastards. Chuck deserves his spot; he was taking people out with both hands; didn’t matter what Chuck touched them with they got hurt.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Im not knocking him for his win over Overeem...That fight was awesome, and Alistar is a very tough fight for anyone!
I hate to bash chuck, because he was always willing to fight anyone and prove he was the best…I just never thought he would have been too successful in his prime against the lilkes of:
wanderlie (pride rules ch6uck would g5et killed)
Arona
Rampage
I think Hendo would have abused Chuck in his prime!
I dont think Chuck could have ever beaten Rogerio
Shogun
I just think Chuck was fighting B’-level comp in his prime. Not his fault…all the top LHW were in Pride…To his credit he always begged Dana to let him fight in Pride, but after Rampage gave him the beating of his life, Dana put an end to all that!!
In his prime, what were his biggest wins? Tito, Randy, Babalu….Meh!
CHuck is Legendary….but I have a hard time really gauging his place in history since he never fought who I considered the best!
For example, he hasnt fought half the competition that Rampage was fighting in those days!
I hate to Bash him….No one wants to bash chuck….but Im just saying!| Chuck was fighting Jermey Horn when wandy was challenging himself against Cro cop in his prime!
I see your point of view
And now that you expand on the “overrated” comment, I agree. Chuck was smashing fools back in the day but the competition he was facing was B level, most of the time. Good points John.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
that's a ridiculous statement Jay
B level now maybe, but the stars of today will be B level in the next 8-10 years as well. Chuck went up against the best of the time the UFC had to offer….nothing B level about the competition he faced.
compared to the competition he didnt face in pride; it is
(wand, shogun, arona, etc..)
I wanna see Ashley Sahffer on your TIT
AMERICA.....FUCK YEAH
Chuck in his prime would have put any of those guys to sleep. His TDD was great and he had power in both hands. He would have had success in Pride.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
It was 5 years ago
And yes, Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn,Vernon White and Tito Ortiz were B level fighters at that time.
I didn’t say every guy he fought was shit. Half of them were, and most of them were suited to his abilities. Most of his opponents couldn’t wrestle well enough to hold him down. I know you will say Randy and Tito were legends, but they weren’t.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
Randy and Tito were B+/A level. Not a fan of either one but I give credit where it is due.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Chuck in his prime...
had the ability to KO any light heavyweight, yesterday, or today. Chuck was great and any noob who doesn’t think so was probably about 12 when Chuck was killing fools out there and just doesn’t know the history. Alistair, Vitor, Tito twice, Couture, Randleman, Sobral….what would any of you out there bashing him like to have seen 8-10 years ago that could have legitimized him more? Don’t be morons.
Chuck of yesteryear isn't as good as Machida, Shogun, Page, Shad,
ANd the list goes on. He was great at that time, but if you could bring that Chuck to today, he would still be getting knocked out in 80% of his fights.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
Chuck in his prime would have KO'ed Shogun, lost to Page (he did, Page has his number), KO'ed Shad and get a decision against Machida (2 counter strikers = a boring decision).
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I always wanted 2 see crocop vs.chuck
chuck vs. hendog at 205lbs., chuck vs. arona, chuck vs. anderson chuck vs. kimbo!!!
lol alrite the kimbo part was just a joke
Chuck in his prime would lose to a prime CC, KO Arona, decison Hendo, lose to Silva by decision and send Kimbo to the hospital.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Bull
I scored that fight to Machida aswell. I don’t really follow fightmetric to hundred procent. It’s all circumstansial and fightmetric can’t really meassure the damage inflicted by a hit. We all see different fights when we watch them, and you don’t get to be the person saying your viewpoint is the more accurate.
I’ve could have seen a draw, and I wouldn’t have protested a decision win for Shogun. But Machida is still a worthy champ in my eyes. Loving the rematch since they are both some of my favourite fighters. Supergreat representitives for their respective style.
~
ok fine, machida..
my bad, didn’t know it was a touchy subject..
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
by stinky~fingers on Jan 26, 2010 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
WELL IT IS
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
~
lol, o damn!~
-for the record. i thought it was a robbery too..
havn’t seen you around in a while, buddy.. everthing grits?
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
by stinky~fingers on Jan 26, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
Sup Stink;
Recently got back on, so I should be around when work isn’t too busy. Seen a lot of guys still around; though Kevin and John G. a lot less active.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
AND
Another funny thing; FightMetric.com has BJ Penn winning against Machida as well according to the 10 point must system; lol.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
~
fichtmetric can be a little scetchy, but i do like the system..
glad to see you back, dood..
i am the mighty tighty whitey and im smuggling plums!~
by stinky~fingers on Jan 26, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
I've read through their methodology and it is by far the most comprehensive..
in capturing relevant data that we need in MMA. Strikebox and CompuStrike are horse shit compared to it so that’s the only tool we have at our disposal. (Though the data sometimes looks crazy eg. Nog-Couture, they had couture taking round 1 simply because of volume even though he was almost finished twice.)
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Jan 26, 2010 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
fightmetric does not score the fight, 3 judges do
get over it
rua gets a rematch and he will lose it too
Only if Cecil Peoples helps rob him again
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Nah Shogun's best chance has gone
Machida will not make the same mistakes this time, he’s going to come into this fight better prepared for Shogun. He won’t be as easy to leg kick this time and will be motivated to prove that he is the better man.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
I see it the opposite...
Before this fight people were lookin at the guy like he was unbeatable; well he just looked very beatable in his last fight. Rua knows he can trade with him, he’s got confidence now; he’ll come in and execute the game plan even better this time around.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think that Shogun will be anymore confident
He was still cautious in the championship rounds when he had Machida hurt. If he was that confident in his skills then he’d have looked to put the fight beyond doubt but he knew that Lyoto is always dangerous and didn’t want to take any risks. If he wasn’t prepared to take risks against a hurt Machida then I can’t see him doing much different in this fight, unless he gets too aggressive looking for the finish in which case he’d get counterstruck by Machida and KO’d.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
thats the fight i saw too
You guys can argue all you want but the fact remains I’m not jumping to the side of the un educated fans (which most the fans are part timers), and saying Shogun won. Truth is the judges had it scored identical to how I did. Me and my buddies msg each other during the fights and 3 out of 6 of them had same as me. Its easy to say the fight could’ve gone either way. And its fair. It happened to go the way of the champ as I felt 2 rounds were decisive for both fighters each. One toss up round that fell the way of the CHAMP.
Not blind. Just very un bias. Same with Vera Couture. The way the rounds and octagon control are scored, Randy won the fight. The closest I’ve seen to a bad decision in recent history is Tito losing actually. I felt he won rounds 1 & 2 for sure, and lost round 3 real bad. Perhaps 10-9 10-9 Tito and 10-8 Forrest for a draw.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 8:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
How??
Does Machida win in anyone’s eyes when he only lands 42 strikes the entire fight and Rua lands 82?? Machida’s limping and his ribs are visably damaged; Shogun landed more strikes and dealt more dmg. Attempted 4 TD’s (though they failed) while Machida attempted none. There was no sub attempts on either side. Given those stats, I don’t see how anyone can anyone justify giving the decision to Machida. It wasn’t as bad as the old Bisping/Hamil decision; but still pretty bad.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Come on OD...really? If you think fightmetric dictated that Shogun got robbed then Randy def lost his fight against Vera, right? Right?
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Fight Metric
Gives the nod to Vera; but the 10 point must system (according to fight metric) is still a draw, that’s a close enough fight to go either way. The knockdown and the 1 mount position he had is the only reason I can see fight metric giving it to Vera, other than that by their own stats they have Couture out striking Vera and the grappling about even. Maybe he got extra points for TDD?? I dunno; but they did score the 10 point must system (which is what MMA is scored by currently) a draw. I can at least see how the decision could go either way in that fight.
I can’t see at all how the Machida decision was fouled up when he gets out struck 2-1 loses on the Fight Metric system AND the 10 point must system and absorbs a lot more damage than he dealt out.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
machida outstruck
A man can easily be outstruck and still win. You say it was 82 strikes to 42 in Rua’s favor? Fine but if they are evenly spread throughout the match then it could be argued that shogun won. But you then take into effect where the blows were, a leg kick isn’t worth as much as a head shot. Also, if for example all 82 shots were landed in the 2nd round alone ( I know they weren’t I’m just saying), then he would win that round but not the other 4.
You can be outstruck and still win. I still agree with the way the judges saw the fight and had 1 round a toss up. It went to the champ and I’m okay with that.
I had it 2 rounds to 0 machida’ then 3rd a toss up, and 4 and 5 going to Shogun.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 10:33 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Speaking of effective striking..
All you have to do is look at both fighters in the later rounds to see who’s strikes were more effective. Machida’s mobility is greatly decreased, he’s limping and his ribs are visably bruised. He had no spring in his step; nothing behind his punch’s at this point in the fight and by that logic (of effective strikes) it would seem that Rua’s body/leg kicks were way more effective than anything Machida landed. Shogun in contrast looked to be undamaged; he was never close to being finished at any point in the fight or “rocked” by any of the flurry’s Machida came at him with.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
the machida rua fight was not robbery, i’ll agree it should not been a UD, it should have been a SD , one that could have went either way! as for damage yeah rua caused more damage, that’s not how fights are judged, look at jardine after the chuck fight! machida IMO landed better shots, and had a few flurries that could have ended the fight. shogun did not he landed mostly kicks to the legs
yeah he went for takedowns , but does that mean he won the grappling aspect of it??? no i would give that to machida he stuffed rua and controlled the grappling everytime they “hooked” up asside from kicks shogun had nothing
truth is it could have been a SD either way and machida took it by UD i don’t agree with but SD yeah i can see it, same if shogun would have go the SD
we get a rematch that will be 1000 times better!!
If Shogun had gotten the decision
He’d be on to his next opponent and Machida would be out of the title picture for at least 2 fights. How often do you see an immediate rematch after someone gets a title shot? That alone speaks volumes for how bad the decision the judges rendered really was.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
Not really. Politics are weird. Randy is an awesome fighter but he gets underserved title shots. The controversy plus hype equals a very profitable rematch for DW and Zuffa.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
All I can say is...
I have NEVER heard Dana White say flat out “I think so and so really won the fight.” right after the fight at the post fight presser; the rematch was already booked and verbally agreed to before they got their first interview. And regardless of what Machida might say in his interviews and what he might claim now; all you have to do is go back and look at his facial expression right before/during them announcing the decision. The man knew right then and there that he lost that fight.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
DW says anything that comes to his mind but that hardly makes it correct or true. I would lend more weight to what the other fighters thought than what DW said. Also, nobody thinks that Machida dominated. Of course he thought that he might have lost...
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
The fight was close and since Rampage sodded off and Rashad and Thiago had already been exposed by Machida a rematch made sense regardless of the result
Unless Andy was going to move up and take on Shogun then there wouldn’t have been any other opponent worthy of a title fight. A rematch was the right call regardless, personally I think that all close title fights deserve rematches if there is no clear cut contender waiting in line to face the winner.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
not neccasarily
it was a close fight and had shogun got the decision i can see machida gettin the rematch who else would get it at the moment??
haha how about shogun wins the rematch and coleman beats randy then we get to see the rematch of the lamest fight ever rua coleman haha
that’ll never happen tho machida and couture are winning
dont think so
I think that fight was that close. And IMO even IF Shogun got the nod, they’d still have given Dragon an immediate rematch cause their the top 2 and it’d be Lyotos first loss and it definitely wouldn’t have been a devastating or decisive one.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 10:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think AS would have gotten a fight against Shogun if he won
But if he wasn’t available, it would have been a rematch with Machida. So, I sorta agree with you, worby. Long time no see.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
Yup. I didn't go with the numbers either. I went with effective striking (a draw), damage done (Shogun) and control (Machida). For me, it could have gone either way.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I gotta question your effective striking being a draw there..
I don’t see how that could be a draw; Machida is limping and his ribs are bruised up pretty good by the end of the fight, Shogun looked like he had absorbed very little, if any damage. Given the mobility of both fighters in the late rounds I would have to say Shoguns leg/body kicks were way more effective strikes than anything Machida landed.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Getting popped in the face vs. getting hit to the body. Its a draw, man. Period. Damage goes to Shogun. Machida stuffed Rua's TD's = control. You may not agree but my criteria is not hard to understand.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I just don't get it
by your own admission Shogun did more damage; even if he did get hit in the face more (none of which were clean shots) he wasn’t getting hurt by any of it (no swelling, no bruising, no blood). It doesn’t make sense that he lands more strikes; does more damage to his opponent and is still even on effective striking criteria just because Machida’s flurrys looked good. They weren’t effective; he wasn’t hurting his opponent. How is that even?
The grappling aspect of the fight was almost absent in Shogun vs Machida; they had a couple clinch situations but if you want to get technical Machida was the one with his back up against the cage after the TD attempts. I don’t think you could score points either way there. For me it goes back to volume and damage; Shogun landed more, and did more damage. By rd 5 there was no question as to who was in control.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
OD, I already explained my criteria. Not going to go in circles here. Let's just leave at the fact that I thought it was a close fight and you obviously thought that Shogun dominated.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
i can agree to that...
it was close could have gone either way! The great thing is we get another fight!!! one inwhich both guys are going to look to win decisivly so there won’t be any debate about who won or should have won
Shogun won the fight :P
The current UFC LHW Champion is a paper Champion.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
"I’m not jumping to the side of the un educated fans (which most the fans are part timers), and saying Shogun won."
LOL; and I love how if you disagree with the decision and feel that Shogun got robbed you’re “uneducated”; but if we agree with you than we must be learned scholars indeed. LMAO.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
One way to ruin a perfectly good thread
mention Rua or Machida, then watch the Shogun fans charge around in packs attacking anyone who suggests Machida might have won. It’s so long since I’ve actually watched that fight, I don’t even remember the ins and outs of each round, has anyone else here actually watched the fight recently? is it due out on DVD soon?
O damn
Throwing around fight metrics stats and being obnoxious is a pretty weak way to form an argument. Judging a fight is, to a degree a subjective thing. If it was strictly about numbers and stats then the commissions would have a machine they wheeled around, not human judges. they were there ring side and saw it different from you. Doesn’t make them wrong, doesn’t make you right. But that’s how it is. It looked to me as though Shogun had won, but not so convincingly that Machida having his hand raised was out of the question.
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
In the name of the Fedor, the Anderson and the GSP. Amen.
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 26, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed with SFK. If Shogun had his hand raised, I would not have complained. Personally, I thought it was close and the champ got the edge for being the champ. That's it.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
It didn't just look to you that Shogun won...
It looked like it to Jesse Holland, Larry Pepe, Dana White, and just about every other fighter ring side except the blind and dumb judges. If he really won that fight his father and A. Silva would’ve been back stage congratulating him on a successful title defense instead of telling him what he was doing wrong. And I did watch the fight; and my opinion was and always has been that Shogun won that fight, and since when are stats weak? Giving my opinion and then looking up statistics to back it up and say here’s more proof why I think the way I do is a weak argument? Really???
I guess we should all stop reading/fact finding and start talking out our asses then; that’s a lot more preferable to having an opinion and then building up an argument with facts/statistics.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
What I want to know
is at what point did Shogun WIN that fight? You can give me facts and figures all night long. But as a seasoned fight fan, I would like to know at what point in what round did you say, yes Shogun is clearly winning this fight, absolutely without question dominating 100%, without any possible doubt…? maybe the 4th/5th, but that’s pretty late in the day to start “winning” a fight that you don’t finish. That’s why stats don’t always stand up for me.
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
In the name of the Fedor, the Anderson and the GSP. Amen.
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 26, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
All I can hope is
That Machida gets owned in the rematch and things are set right; atm the UFC LHW Champ is a paper Champion; a product of poor judging. Unfortunatley no matter what the stats say or the fact that you can see one fighter is visably more damaged than the other, it seems like there’s a small group of people who just refuse to read the writing on the wall here.
As far as what I thought about the fight while watching it; I felt Shogun was consistently landing better shots; and even at the end of a couple Machida flurry’s countered with an excellent right hook that backed him up. Shogun consistently countered with great leg kicks/body kicks throughout the entirety of the fight and as Machida visably slowed he was getting tagged more and more. Would I say it was a completely dominating beat down? No; but I thought Shogun clearly won the fight.
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I agree in places OD
Like I said, I thought Shogun won it too, but I can fully understand why he didn’t in others eyes and I can understand that Machida may have looked like the winner to others. And I think it’s crazy how Shogun fans jump all over anyone who suggests that.
"OH GOD THAT'S DISGUSTING! HE BROKE HIS FREAKIN' ARM"
"hey man that's the business, we're not figure skating"
In the name of the Fedor, the Anderson and the GSP. Amen.
by Spinning Fat Kick on Jan 26, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's cause the fans know who the real champ is :P
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Not really Shogun fans as much as it is Machida haters. All the Machida haters are using the Shogun fight to voice their gripes against Machida.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
I do NOT hate Machida
Having a poster of him with the eyes cut out and darts in it up in the living room and carving scars into the flesh of my forearms with a swiss army knife counting down the days to his demise as LHW Champion does not mean I hate the guy… pft..
"Wanderlei Silva; hallowed be thy name." - Genesis 50:27
by O damn he got caught on Jan 26, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
o damn
Your misunderstanding what I meant by that. I simply meant the probably 85% or even 90% of people saw that as a Shogun victory. However, 75% of those people are part timers that don’t understand the specifics of the scoring system or the 10 point must, opponents scoring 9 or less.
Hell half them wouldn’t be able to tell you what it means when it goes to split and they announce “48-47, 48-47, 47-48” etc, and so on, as they would have no clue how the #’s come about.
I’m not saying your uneducated in your assessment of the fight for thinking shogun won, I just think the fight was close and could’ve gone either way, while shogun fans seem to think it was some slaugther fest.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 12:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Daniel Worby, Truth.
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
Yep
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
THX 4 support
Lol I miss this shit. Arguing all morning really hits the spot.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mine TOO
Who’s your 5 best?
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
My top 5
GSP- best mixed martial artist
Brock- human wrecking ball
Faber- dosen’t always win but fights are exciting
Machida- like his style, except last fight
Bones Jones- exciting and unpredictable style
Who’s your top 5?
Calu
We lost each other after GSP/Brock
Cote, Mousasi and no one for number 5 really. If I had to pick someone I guess Nick Diaz, King Mo and Dan Hardy could be in there.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
Actally Mousasi is right about there for me
Lost interest in Diaz lately. King Mo is good but a little small for today’s top hw’s., would probably be awesome at lhw. Hardy is good but not yet ready for title shot as he needs to develop a ground game, not yet a complete mixed martial artist. But give 2 years and he could be the man at 170.
Calu
He'll be fighting Mousasi at LHW
King Mo fights any weight where there is money.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
That's gonna be an awesome fight!
I think Mousasi may be a little more well-rounded with a better overall skill set but can’t wait for that one.
Calu
Terrible scoring Worby
I’m a Machida fan and was expecting him to smash Shogun, but he clearly did not win that fight. He was getting picked apart and was taking more damage than Shogun. By the championship rounds Lyoto could barely walk because of all of the leg kicks that Shogun landed. Other than one flurry Machida barely landed anything of note and was beaten by the better man on the night. I think that he will come back a better fighter and avenge that first fight in the rematch but Shogun should be the LHW champion.
All Tito did against Forrest was get 3 takedowns, in the first round he didn’t even do any damage and he ended up getting sweeped in the second. The rest of the fight he was outboxed by Forrest. This is MMA, not a takedown contest, there is far more to the fight than just getting a takedown and if your opponent is landing more punches than you and doing more damage then you’ve lost. The only round that Tito had a case in winning was the second and even then other than land one elbow that cut Forrest he did very little with his takedowns.
All Randy did against Vera was hold him against the fence, that only wins rounds if your opponent does nothing. In the first Vera rocked Randy in the opening exchange, in the second he was dropped with a body kick and close to getting stopped and in the third he was taken down and mounted. All of that should outscore failed takedowns and holding against the fence, otherwise Kenny would have been 30-27 ahead of BJ according to that logic and even Kenny’s corner and Kenny himself knew that he wasn’t winning the fight. If Rogan, one of Randy’s biggest fans, thought that Vera won then it’s hard to defend that decision. Hell I hate Vera and am a Randy fan and I thought that decision was dreadful.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
oh well
You think that my point of view is terrible however out of the 3 fights we’re talking about I saw 2 of them the same way the record books do.
You only saw 1 that way.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 12:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
in fact
I was so confident in the win Randy got over Vera I could’ve turned my TV off and never thought twice about it before they announced it and Joe did his wah wah putting thoughts into Vera the over rated, egotistical, fighter that he is.
I only see that fight one way.
The shogun/machida fight is always an endless debate.
And I feel if everyone didn’t hate Tito cause he’s the Terrell Owens of mma, that they’d have made more a stink about that one as well.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 12:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There was nothing wrong with Tito-Forrest and no amount of Tito's whining can convince me
Bad decisions happen when the scoring system is flawed and athletic commissions continue to hire clueless fools like Cecil Peoples. That guy has been caught with his back to the fight and was a horrendous referee.
What did Tito, Lyoto or Randy do to win those fights? Results aside I’d like to know why you think anyone of them won. The only thing that I could score Tito or Randy on is control and that’s supposed to be the least important out of all of the scoring criteria. Considering that they were both outstruck and took more damage, octagon control is not enough to win a fight. In Randy’s case he was outgrappled as well, as he ended up mounted and didn’t succeed with one takedown whilst Tito couldn’t keep Forrest down for long, especially in the first so doesn’t outscore Griffin’s strikes with that one takedown and he was swept at the end of the second.
As for Machida he was outstruck in a fight that was a striking match for 25 minutes, getting leg kicked to the point that you can barely walk and your elusive style goes right out of the window does not make up for defending takedowns or ineffective strikes that one flurry aside didn’t put Shogun in danger at all.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
I'm with you ODAM!!!
Worst decision I have ever seen. I’m over it now, just can’t wait for Shogun To finish it this time!!!
Hamill v. Bisping was the worst I have ever seen...
Friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty. Only enemies speak the truth.
-Stephen King
perhaps he should look into some titanium chin implants...
We dont have to watch you train to think you are past your prime, Chuck..you could train harder than any previous fight and still be brutalized…most of us love watching his older fights, and realize its gotta be hard for someone to go from the top of the heap to near bottom of the barrel in a few years…just cant take a punch like he used to…and theres no amount of traing that can change that…
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
You might want to go out on your own but...
Keep fighting and you’ll not be able to do anything on your own because you will have too much brain damage from getting knocked out all the time!
Calu
The problem is....
he rapidly lost his speed, punching power and ability to take a punch in a yrs time….all of which are due to age, yes by Randy’s standards he is not old but by normal human fighting standards Chuck should not fight anymore….and we as fans should not be conned into thinking that Tito vs Chuck 3 is a fight we have been waiting for!!!!!
Robert(1)
Umm you forgot Herschel Walker standards of age.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 8:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would like nothing more than to see chuck come back and proove everyone wrong and win the title again but let’s be honest it’s not gonna happen, if he beats Tito he Gould get Coleman or couture next then maybe franklin or forrest. Even if he won they fights he still doesn’t stand much of a chance against the top guys shogun machida rampage Anderson …
by eagzy on Jan 26, 2010 8:31 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Sometimes...
Athletes need to be saved from themselves.. Power is not the last thing to go.. The competitive spirit is..
No one can ever say these athletes aren’t competitive.. But the body breaks down long before the mind does…
Hang it up Chuck.. You have nothing to prove.. But your best years are behind you and the fans are ok with.. Maybe you should be too ?
8-29-09
Keith Jardine is now known as "The Dean of Antihistamine" because he is always sleeping early in fights..
Agreed
Chuck needs to listen to the doctors, his friends and family. Nobody wants to see him go on too long and at this rate he’s going to end up with Parkinson’s. Ali and Roach never knew when to quit and their health has suffered as a result.
"If I could change my name what would it be? Jesus"
Tito Ortiz (seriously...)
Chuck is going to TKO Ortiz as usual.
The Iceman deserves all the best. I root for him against Tito, Evans, Rampage. I think he still can put on good shows but don’t see him getting the title back, though.
"Once Flamengo, Flamengo until die"
I respectfully disagree
I don’t think he can be competitive at tis level anymore. His brain has been concussed too many times. It effects everybody differently. And his brain just gets concussed too easily now. The beard is no longer in place so-to-speak.
Calu
Chucky
He’ll always be a favorite of mine, but I can’t see him stringing two competitive wins together. Hope I’m wrong.
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 9:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
worby, where you been and what is with the new picture?
That isn’t you in the nude is it?
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
This is worby in the nude..lol
Tito Ortiz: I think Chuck's lost a step, maybe i've lost a step also, but that's what makes the fight so exciting!
THX tkkpal ya jerk
Lol
Jay, I was not able to post I had a pending warning for a prior post that was inappropriate. You know which one if you think about it.
Anyways, that’s how lil I use computers, I hadn’t been online to hit ‘ok’ to post again and it didn’t offer that from mobile. I been spending weeks talking back and forth with Chris from tech support when all I had to do was go online and hit ok. Lol fml.
And by the way, no I’m not naked lol, it was a Halloween costume for the bar.
Roughrider zombie was the attempt.
GO GREEN!
Ps when did tkkpal become the GIF Queen? Thought Mc did all that?
worbanizer
by daniel worby on Jan 26, 2010 12:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can't think of the post. I thought you looked like the joker or something.
Me and TKKPAL learned how to gif yesterday. He is like a kid with his first erection, he’s spraying these gifs all over the place.
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
Tell me about it, i'm all giffed out now tho....novelty wearing off...or is it, I feel a gif coming on!....lol
Tito Ortiz: I think Chuck's lost a step, maybe i've lost a step also, but that's what makes the fight so exciting!
I got a shit load now.
.gif)
martial arts is about technique over size and strength. While strength and speed are great, technique will always overcome it.-FuckerDave 01/19/10
The shitty thing is
Chuck will never wanna go out on a loss. And if he starts winning again, he’ll think he’s stil got it and keep fighting. Only to be put to sleep again by the more elite LHW’s.
look for chuck to fight Kimbo in late 2010
I wanna see Ashley Sahffer on your TIT
AMERICA.....FUCK YEAH
ICEMAN FOREVER
He truely is a legend, a hero. I hope he reigns supreme once again. Mans were shitting themselves at the thought of the ICEMAN.
Dana should give him a crown and a blinged out Throne when he retires.
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