Jon Jones: I didn't win the Matt Hamill fight because I did something illegal
by Jesse Holland on Dec 6, 2009 4:09 AM EST
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Props: UFC.com
Quoteworthy:
"Well, you know, situations like this can only make you better. A lot of the best fighters in the world, they all have losses and I just want to be one of the best fighters. I don't have too much to celebrate about but I'll come back stronger. I think everything's about destiny and whoever (Joe Silva) wants me to fight I'll be ready for. I don't call out anyone. I didn't win that fight. I did something illegal. Maybe that's my youth and inexperience. I messed up and I didn't win. If I was smarter I would have thrown elbows more correctly so I gotta go back to the drawing board. There was no warning, (the referee) didn't warn me at all. I think I hit him 15 times unanswered, maybe even more than that. People should go count. I don't feel like I won. I lost. Now I have no pressure because I'm not undefeated!"
Electrifying light heavyweight prospect Jon Jones has no "Bones" about the disqualification loss he received in his bout with Matt Hamill at The Ultimate Fighter (TUF) 10 Finale from "The Pearl" at the Palms Resort and Casino in Las Vegas, Nevada on Dec. 5. "The Hammer" was completely decimated on the ground, perhaps mere seconds away from a technical knockout until Jones rained down a few 12-6 elbows that caused referee Steve Mazzagatti to halt the contest. After Hamill could not continue and instant replay was utilized, Jones was disqualified for the illegal elbows. But did he deserve it? What's your take, Maniacs?
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it was hamill’s shoulder that stopped the fight he clearly points to it and lays there hurt the elbow had nothing to with the end of the fight except mazzagatti is a fuck up keith k should realize this as well if the cut from the elbow is why he couldnt continue then no doubt its a dq but the doc never check his nose and said the fight was over hamill just gave up which is a clear win for bones in my eyes oh ya and when a fighter takes 80 plus shots and just turtles like hamill did the fight needs to be stopped
Exactly, Mazagatti is a terrible ref, first he ignores Mitrione’s illegal knee to Marcus then he lets Hamill take an unneccessary beating and to top it all off Bones is cheated out of his biggest win to date for a foul that didn’t cause the fight ending injury and shouldn’t even be a foul in the first place. Awful night for MMA.
That is a win for Bones in everyones mind.
The official call doesn’t make a difference. Bones is moving up in the rankings and Hamill is moving down. The loss on his record kind of sucks, but he will be fighting a better fighter in his next fight than Matt will in his.
Glad to be free from Intro's tyranny.
I think Maz was just about to stop it as he threw the illegal elbows. I was watching it with a bunch of people and we all thought Hamil was doing ok and Jones was slowing down right until the last couple hits.
While I agree with the DQ I think it should’ve been no contest.. Matt getting a win on his record for that doesn’t make any sense, in no way did he win that fight, and for Jones it’s basically the same type of loss that Fedor has on his record, one with a gigantic asterisk beside it.
Just about to watch it again on justin.tv so we’ll see if I see anything different.
Jay, I agree but thats not the point!
Yes in this case it doesnt make much of a difference, but thats noot the point. Recently mma has had an ugly cloud of messed up judging and bad refereeing. This needs to change, yet nothing is being done. Refs and Judges have DREAM jobs. with that dream job comes great responsibility to the fighters and to millions of fans around the world. Its really not rocket science, yet the wrong man is often declared the winner and I Hate it!
Bones DESTROYED Hammil last night..I had a ton of money riding on BOnes…Yes the elbow was illegal, although it is the stupidest rule ever, but regardless..that elbow had nothing to do with the outcome of the fight. What decided the fight was the brutal beatdown JOnes unleashed on Hammil. This kid is for real! Very scary!
I hope they match up Bones vs. Vera! greco vs. Greco
I reaLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE BONES vs. King MO\
I hope Dana gave bones his win bonus!
Exactly john
Rule states that rule #13:46-24A.16 Injuries sustained during competition….
(a) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of a legal maneuver is severe enough to terminate a bout, the injured contestant loses by technical knockout.
(b) If an injury sustained during competition as a result of an intentional foul is severe enough to terminate a bout, the contestant causing the injury loses by disqualification.
Hamill wasn’t able to continue, but if it was b/c of his shoulder. Jones shouldn’t have been disqualified for the foul b/c that wasn’t the reason of why he wasn’t able to continue. Though I can’t blame Maz to actually implement a rule from the book. Stupid inexperience move by Jones.
Now I’m gonna have to change my Avatar b/c of that. Damn prairies voo doo of Intro’s did it again, lol
“first he ignores Mitrione’s illegal knee”
Was that the “illegal” knee to Marcus’ chest with 3:30 left in the first round, or some other illegal knee?
He took alot of $$ from me, Mazzagatti is the worst ref ever in all of sports.
That was the lock of the century! people like me had money on Jones winning, which he did until Mazzagatti show started ! Mazzagatti doesn’t even give a warning to the fighter before he takes a point either! This is the 3rd time he has taken a win from a fighter, Lesnar, Rumble and Jones. It doesn’t stop there, he didn’t even check on Hamill to find out the real reason why he wouldn’t get up, and honestly it doesn’t matter ’cause the fight should have stopped long before it ended, Hamill was done!
I’d really like to know when and how hamill hurt his shoulder.
by C O R on Dec 6, 2009 12:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunate
It’s frustrating that this will be a loss on John’s record. He did throw a of couple illegal blows and perhaps a DQ is the only way to score the bout since Hamill was unable to continue, but rest assured John Jones won that fight in every ones mind who watched everything up until the DQ. Matt Hamill didn’t even look like he was in the same league as Jones. I suspect Hamill will want to avoid a rematch at all costs. After a beatdown like that I would avoid Jones like the plague if possible. Hopefully the UFC brass can get him another fight asap, especially since it didn’t look like he took any damage at all.
After seeing his performance tonight, I feel like he’s gong to be a serious match up problem for almost anyone at 205.
I think Pornstache is probably the worst ref in all of MMA, but I think he made the right call on this one. Before the commercial break I was thinking NC, but since it was an intentional foul then the DQ makes sense. I don’t think he knew about the shoulder until after the call was made official. That being said, Joe Silva should be treating this as a win for Jones and a loss for Hamill when he looks for their next opponents.
It was not intentional
If you are classing the strikes as intentional because Jon Jones intended to throw an elbow then that would make every punch to the back of the head and kick/knee to the balls in every MMA bout an intentional illegal strike.
My idea of an intentional illegal blow is when a fighter is FULLY aware of the nature of what he is doing (i.e. that it is illegal) and its end result. Jon Jones I believe was not conciously aware at the time that he was performing an illegal strike.
Also usually a fighter is given up to 5 minutes to recover from an illegal blow, this includes doctors attendance. Why wasn’t this offered and then the true damaged taken could of been assessed by a professional, this would of led to his shoulder being revealed as the major reason for his inability to continue the fight.
Last but not least about Jon Jones not being genuine, fair enough you are entitled to your opinion, but if what your saying is true and JJ truly doesn’t believe what he is saying but has the respect and class not to throw a massive tantrum (which would be fine considering he is only 22, the way the fight ended and the fact he had a perfect record) that to me says volumes about his level of maturity and character.
by holdin_ropes on Dec 6, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
you can't compare
this to strikes to the back of the head or kicks to the groin. Those strikes are thrown intentionally, but hit unintended targets, and with those type of fouls, it’s the target that makes them fouls. With this elbow, it’s the strike itself that is illegal, like a stomp or soccer kick. If you intended to throw that type of strike, then you were breaking the rule, regardless of your ignorance of that rule. It didn’t accidentally become an illegal strike because your opponent moved his leg or head, it was illegal by nature regardless of where it landed. It’s a fighters’ own responsibility to know the rules. Matt Hamill didn’t earned the win, but Jon Jones definitely earned the loss. He screwed up and has no one to blame for that screw up but himself. As he said, he messed up due to his youth and inexperience and he lost that fight through his own mistake. That said, major props to Bones for taking it like a man and taking responsibility for his mistake and learning from it.
I do agree with what you are saying but the 12/6 elbow that he illegaly used was more trying to get through Hamills arms being in the defensive position.
Hamill was intelligently defending himself but it was obvious he was not going to change his position, was going to continue taking massive shots, and should have been stopped before it even got to those blows. The referee’s always say the fighters saftey comes first, to let Hamill sit under Jones like that put Hamill at serious risk and was a horibble scenario waiting to happen. I wouldn’t be suprised if Hamill never trily comes back from a beating like that ie. Cro Cop after Gonzaga’s head kick, Gonzaga after the Coture beating, or Chuck after RAmpage. If Hamill comes back he will be gun shy and will probably be suffering from Post Tramatic Stress for the next few years!
Fair point
However what I was aiming at is that he threw goodness knows how many elbows and the final two where deemed illegal which he wasn’t aware were illegal.
All strikes can technically be called intentional whether it is there final landing place or the very nature of the strike which makes it illegal. My definition of intentional is when a fighter holds the fence after being warned or something simular for example where a fighter is clearly aware they are infringing upon the rules at the time of performing the action. However I do take your point but it may all lie in each persons definition of intentional.
Good reply Shonuff
He didn’t occidentally hit him in the head with that elbow. Most groin shots are intended to be knees to the midsection or inside leg kicks. You can’t honestly tell me that Jones intended to hit him anywhere other than his head with anything but that downward elbow.
Fighters are only supposed to be given 5 minutes to recover from groin shots. With other illegal blows, the fighter is not supposed to be given 5 minutes (even though they it happens often). The determination of whether the fighter can continue should be made promptly. If he can continue the fight is supposed to resume immediately.
He did mean to elbow him however...
The emphasis is on all fighters to ensure their strikes are accurate enough to not fall foul of the rules. GSP when facing Matt Hughes kicked him in the groin twice but after that was extremely precise with his kicks to ensure he didn’t incur another foul strike. As I mentioned above I think it is the interpretation of intentional that divides us.
I’m not sure where you get the info about ref’s not legally being able to stop a bout for reasons other than a inadvertant groin strike but I have seen matches stopped for eye pokes and strikes to the head of a grounded opponant many times and have never heard a backlash from a single outlet. If you can provide the source for this information so I may see for myself I would appreciate it, but I will take you at your word that you have it from a reliable source until I find otherwise.
Agreed.
And also, the barrage of strikes Johnny bones through was intense. Mazzagatti should have stopped the fight before the illegal blow was ever thrown. At one point Bones looked at Maz. and lifted his hands as to say “C’mon, are you going to stop it already” He didn’t want to hurt Hammil any more than necessary. Bones didn’t slow down because he was tire, it was because he knew the fight should be over by that point.
Mazzagatti sucks balls, and needs to be removed from refereeing. He is involved in these controversial finishes time and time again. How often has Yamasaki, Herb Dean, or Big John been involved in them? But yet we consistently see Mazzagatti, Rosenthal, and Lavigne at the center of these calls. My vote is to strip Mazagatti, and give Big John his Nevada license back.
yeah, I hope they treat it that way as well. Send Hamill to the undercard and put Jones higher up the ladder. He looked sharp last night and deserves a higher ranking opponent.
I am a Michigan Web Designer
by helloGreenStar on Dec 6, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Should have been stopped way sooner.
Hamill was hardly defending himself and was already done before the illegal elbows. Oh well, Jones should learn a lesson hear and try to punch him out next time. He’s got some sick standup for sure. I want to see him against Vera.
by HappyLittleTreez on Dec 6, 2009 9:32 AM EST reply actions
Yes you did win
That was a win. It should have been stopped earlier and even if it hadn’t, the abundance of rididulous rules is ruining good fights (see Mir/Lesnar 1). Do away with the no hitting the back of head, no knees or kicks to a downed opponent, and no downward elbows. These rules are not necessary.
I would like to see them get rid of elbows to the head of a grounded opponent. Too many fights have ended early because of a cut from a glancing elbow. I think the definition of grounded opponent should be modified a little. Not long ago I saw a guy getting kneed in the head while he had one hand touching the mat. The ref said it was ok because he wasn’t putting any weight on that hand. I’d like to see refs allow that more often. I’m sick of seeing guys put a hand down just to avoid the knees. Is it really any less dangerous to get hit with a knee if they were bent over that low with their hand a few inches away from the ground rather than touching it?
I think I agree with you on the elbows
I HATE seeing fights stopped from cuts, especially from glancing blows that do no damage. Not much you can do about that with standing punches, but most of those cuts come from elbows on the ground and more and more guys are intentionally trying to cut their opponents to get an easy stoppage or score “shock” points with the judges by making the guy all bloody. .
Can Jone appeal the DQ?
If he can, he actually has a shot at winning since there is video and audio evidence.
Intro's take
Before Dana comes out and bashes the ref, and all his sheep get in line behind him….
The ref made the correct call. Do I think that these types of elbows should be illegal?…no. But I’m an old-school MMA fan that also thinks kness and kicks to the head of a grounded opponent should also be allowed……and if one of those two things ended the fight, we’d still be in the same situation.
A rule is a rule. The DQ was 100% correct in this situation. It’s different than an unintentional foul, because the target that he wanted to hit was exactly what he intended it to be…..he just used something illegal to hit it with……no different than a knee or a soccer kick as far as the rules go. DQ was 100% correct, and the ref handled this perfectly.
Not sure why Hamill’s shoulder is coming up in these talks, when it had nothing to do with the ref ending the fight.
With that said, I’m gonna take the high road with Alpha regarding our bet on this fight. A few months back I lost a bet with OJR on the Machida/Rua fight….as we all know it ended in contraversy. OJR took the low road, and I accepted my punishment. This time, we’ll take the high road…..Alpha, you’re a free man.
"I'll make that [expletive] fight right now for free. Let's do it."
- Dana White on Fedor vs Lesnar
Normally they do not DQ a fighter for an illegal blow if the fighter can continue, they get a warning or lose a point. Hamill said at the end of the fight in his interview that he could not continue because of his shoulder. That is why there is all the controversy. If a fighter gets a DQ win because he took a groin shot and then in the post fight says that he could not continue because he felt his acl pop, that is a fighter taking advantage of the situation.
…..also, Jones f$cked Hamill up but spent too much time staring at the ref instead of ending the fight.
Nothing pisses me off more than a guy looking at the ref instead of finishing his job. Then when he decided that he should finally finish the fight, his inexperience took over and he chose an illegal strike to finish it with.
The only bad decision during this fight, including the ref and comission’s decisions, was the stupid one Jones made……end of story.
"I'll make that [expletive] fight right now for free. Let's do it."
- Dana White on Fedor vs Lesnar
Well maybe when he looked up...
He expected the ref to do his job and end it or tell him his strikes were illegal. How can you hate on that?
The Next Fighter I want to see fall VICTIM to the Bones Beating:
None other then the King of Ground and Pound-The one whos Head is to big for normal head gear….TITO ORTIZ! I would love nothing more than to see Tito ORtiz under Bone’s full mount, getting pounded into the cage matt!
Ican't take too much more!
I love fighting sports. I boxed and kick boxed for years. I used to be a freak of a boxing fan. But with all the political crap; the alphabet organizations ruined that sport and I hardly ever watch it anymore. Maybe 1-2 big fights a year. This year with all the bad officiating ( a la Steve Mazzagatti) and the horrible decisions like Rua/Machida I am quickly losing interest in mma. Last night’s DQ of Jones left me with such a bad taste in my mouth I honestly don’t know if I can watch another mma fight. Did Hamil in any way resemble the winner during or after the fight?! At best this was a no contest. The officials and commissions are so bad in this sport. I am rapidly losing interest. As a man who used to compete in boxing and kickboxing but had to quit for health reasons, I cringe when I see such an enormous injustice done to a fighter like Jones. You kill yourself to prepare for a fight and then have some idiot sitting cageside or inside the cage make a ridiculous decision robbing you of your just due is such an insane injustice. I just can’t take it anymore… Dana fix the f ’ ed up sport before it gets as bad as boxing!!!!!!!!!
Calu
He lost because he struck an opponent with an illegal blow
What a stupid post, I can’t believe I read that whole thing.
Glad to be free from Intro's tyranny.
and why wasn’t he told about this illegal elbow when he was pummeling Hamils face and looking up to the ref to see his reaction?
that was before the illegal elbows
When Jones was looking at the ref trying to, as Goldy and Rogan said, “con” the ref into stopping the fight prematurely, he had not yet started with the illegal blows. Calu, the only injustice done was by Bones to himself. You can’t blame the ref for Bones breaking the rules. Hammil was in a very bad place, but still intellegently defending himself until the illegal elbows. Bones has noone to blame but himself and he knows it. If he can admit his mistake and take it like a man, his fans should be able to do the same.
Stupid???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
The fact that Mazzagatti allowed him to hit him so many times wtihout Hamil able to defend himself is ridiculous. Also, He should have stopped him after the FIRST illegal elbow, THEN, warned him. THEN, if Jones continued take a point, THEN, if he continued DQ him. Not allow him to reign down several illegal elbows and then stop him. But truthfully rewatch the replay and you will see Hamil was cooked before one illegal elbow fell. Now who’s stupid? Oh, it’s Jay!
Calu
i agree with both sides
obviously Jones should not have thrown the elbows, we know this, he had admitted it, and it’s not even an issue because its so crystal clear. He was in the wrong for throwing the elbows NO DOUBT.
But, Maz should have stopped the fight long before that. I don’t care if Hamill wasn’t completely knocked out, he was taking serious damage and doing NOTHING to stop it. Definitely was not intelligently defending himself.
Maz definitely should have gave Bones a warning after the first one. Like all of a sudden he stopped the fight and took a whole point? like what kind of b.s is that? No warning at all is just ridiculous. And there was definitely enough time between the elbows to stop it and warn him.
Also the whole shoulder thing…the fight was stopped because Hamill said he couldn’t continue due to a shoulder injury, not the elbows. So how does he get a win out of that??
Should have been a no contest in my opinion.
Jones looked really good it's to bad they called a DQ with only one warning from the ref
wich is were the fight ended. Jones should be able to fight fairly quickly I would like to see him against Jardine next there is no point bringing him to lesser ranked opponents than Hamill as he clearly is a much better fighter even with the DQ.
First of all, it doesn’t matter whether he took the point away or not. The action would have been stopped either way and it still would have been a DQ when Hamill couldn’t continue.
Secondly, the refs give too many warnings. I can understand warnings in some situations, like when a guy is hitting the back of the head because the other guy keeps moving (a la Mir/Lesnar). But in situations where the guy’s head is pretty stationary and the guy still hits the back of the head (a la Brown/Aldo), then why should he get a warning? In other words, there shouldn’t be warnings for intentional fouls. The fighters know the rules and possible consequences. That should be enough warning.
I agree, they know the rules
Warnings are for something that’s just instinctual like grabbing the fence/ropes as your being taken down, or for something accidental like your inside leg kicks are sliding up and catching the guy in the groin. Then you give a warning so the fighter is more conscious of what he’s doing and has a chance to correct it. Warnings are not necessary for intentional illegal strikes, eye gouging, fish hooking, intentional headbutting, etc. They should be automatic point deductions and if they do significant damage, DQs. These guys do this for a living. It’s their job to know the rules. You think CFO’s should get a warning when they’re caught embezzling or brokers when they’re inside trading??? C’mon!
Agree but like I said there is no doubt in anyones mind that watched the fight that knows
Jones was the better….much better fighter the illigal blows would not of changed anything and Jones should be moving up the ladder. The decision to DQ Jones only took mony out of his pocket and I believe his performance last night moved him up the rankings. The question is who is next? The two I would like to see him face before getting in the top five is Vera and Jardine.
you can't blame steve mazagatti or hammil for that fight.
mazigatti was just following the rules and i don’t think hammil was trying to get out of that fight. he never indicated his shoulder was hurt whenmazigatti asked. hammil is deaf and he had blood all in his eyes. he just took a beating from jones. he wasn’t thinking straight. mazigatti raised jones hand in victory, but rules are rules. all you guys need to get off him for not giving a warning. would a guy get a warning for two intentinal kicks in the nuts?!!!! well why would you get a warning for two connecting illegal blows that you meant to throw??
by Conan the Barbarian on Dec 7, 2009 2:22 AM EST reply actions
not intentional???
So Bones just accidentally raised his arm above his head, contracted his midsection, and brought his elbow crashing down on Hamill’s stationary head? C’mon Monkey! Let’s be reasonable! You can say he didn’t intentionally break the rules, but you can’t claim he didn’t intentionally throw those strikes. The blows were intentional and knowing the rules is every fighter’s own responsibilty. I have no problem with saying he didn’t intentionally cheat, that he forgot and made a rookie mistake, but there’s noone to blame for that but him and he’s admitted that.
I agree with you Shonuff
He admittedly and clearly threw the 12/6 elbow. Hamill admittedly ended the fight because of his shoulder not because the 12/6 elbow. So Jones was in the wrong and should have lost the point as originally taken, I just think when the fighter says I couldn’t continure because of my shoulder and they DQ’d the fighter for the elbow it is 2 different things..
Matt Hamill and Jon Jones are FUTURE
I wanted to says sorry to hear about Jon’s lose the fight and Hamill got injury,
Jon Jones will not do illegal elbow again in the future I know for sure because
He learn from this and he has a good heart and Faith to God like he said " God is good "
I believe Jon will be best fighter ever or maybe top 3 in the world soon !
Hamill has a lot of support by Deaf people but not only that but out there more people support him not just because He s deaf and also he has a great attitude and put his mouth positive on people’s lives and He never put people’s negative !
What they need to improve ?
Hamill Need more speed and quick
Jon Jones need protect his face as his face is weak cheek ( easy get TKO ) if anyone hit Target so Party over for Jon Jones
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