Alistair Overeem is filled to the brim with confidence heading into 2010
Props: DREAMOfficial.com
Quoteworthy I (on his place in the world heavyweight hierarchy):
"Number one. Granted, in order to prove that I am number one, I need time to defeat all the other fighters."
Quoteworthy II (on his desire to fight Fedor):
"If I want to prove that I am number one, I cannot bypass a fight against him. Fedor is my idol. Having said that, I have fought others whom I have regarded as idols, and defeated them: Vitor Belfort, Igor Vovchanchyn, and Peter Aerts, for example. Though I respect my idols, I of course do not want to lose them come fight time. Fedor is a great fighter... but only in MMA. If he fought under the K-1 rule, I don't think he would be as good as me."
Quoteworthy III (on channeling Muhammad Ali):
"I am filled to the brim with confidence regarding my winning the K-1 World Grand Prix. I am self-assured that I can stage spectacular fights that will floor everyone: I will become the K-1 champion. I will accomplish an unprecedented feat in the world of combat sport and become the greatest legend. There has been many fighters who deserve the billing of 'legend.' Kazushi Sakuraba has always been a legend and Wanderlei Silva was the PRIDE legend. Fedor, Rickson (Gracie), and Royce (Gracie) are also legendary names. Nevertheless, when I become a legend, I want to distinguish myself from the aforementioned names and become the greatest among all the legends by becoming the number one in both K-1 and MMA -- in other words, a 'double legend.' If I manage to accomplish the feat that no one else has, then I can rightfully be called the 'greatest legend.' (To all the DREAM fans) Here is the future K-1 champion: Look forward to my return to DREAM after capturing the K-1 belt."
Strikeforce Heavyweight Champion Alistair Overeem vocalizes his lofty ambition as he heads into the K-1 World Grand Prix 2009 Final on Dec. 5. Depending on his condition upon competing in the Grand Prix, he may appear in the 2009 Dynamite!! on New Year's Eve before making his tentative return to Strikeforce in 2010. Looking forward to it, Maniacs?
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Wow...
Would be fantastic if he gets either titles.
"No one wants to be defeated."
by Eduardo Cruz on Nov 18, 2009 8:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
haha
the DOUBLE legend>single legend. Take that, single legends.
by frosnt1 on Nov 18, 2009 8:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So basically you are admitting Fedor is better at MMA. What an a$$ hat.
by BNF on Nov 18, 2009 8:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Really
This guy needs to get off his own sack! The MMA gods need to get him against Fedor.
by MMACHAMP on Nov 18, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
great K1 fighter but...
he may be a great K1 fighter but he has yet to avenge his loss to Sergei Kharitonov as far as a MMA fighter he is a top 15 fighter wich is good but he is not among the elite.
by BeaverRaider on Nov 18, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A 250+ pound (of solid muscle) K-1 level kickboxer with good submission skills isn’t among the elite, huh?
I guess Dana must have said something to that affect, since Beaver posts always sound like a poorly rewritten UFC All Access show. I suppose your hero Mir PLUS 14 other UFC HWs would take Overeem, right champ? Pull your head out. This guy isn’t the same fighter he was when he was killing himself to make 205 in PRIDE. He is a top-notch HW.
And checking your profile, I noticed you once again claim wrestling as the #1 discipline in MMA. The irony is that if wrestling DOES become the #1 discipline in MMA, people will stop watching it. It will do for MMA what the neutral zone trap did for hockey. Luckily, you are, as usual, wrong. The #1 ranked fighters in 4 out of 5 weight classes are not wrestlers.
- LW – BJ
- MW – Anderson
- LHW – Machida (or Shogun, if you prefer)
- HW – Fedor
You see any wrestlers there, big guy?
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 18, 2009 10:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wrestling is easily the most important aspect of MMA
Other aspects can only be viewed as more important in union—for example, Anderson uses striking and jits but if he had only striking, or only jits, a wrestler could easily exploit him by keeping him either on the feet or dominating him on the ground.
Also, 4/5 UFC champions have strong wrestling (even if they are not “wrestlers”). BJ (incredible defensive, good offensive—which he used to win his last fight), GSP, Machida (great TD and TD success rate), and Brock.
If you need any further evidence of the predominance of wrestling in our sport look at the latest UFC headline. Vera is basically better in every aspect of MMA than Couture—except wrestling. In fact, i think they are fairly equivalent in wrestling, but Couture was able to eek out a decision merely because he was determined to wrestle the whole fight whereas Brandon attempted to strike. In this case, it wasn’t even Couture’s superior wrestling that “won” him that fight but his very determination to wrestle. Whether or not you agree with the decision (I did not) you have to acknowledge that the worse fighter was at least competetive simply because of roughly equivalent wrestling.
by frosnt1 on Nov 18, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Knuckleheads'
We already know what the most important aspects of MMA are, just go back to the early days of UFC!…. Which discipline was most dominant when stylistically matched with the elite in each discipline?
1. BJJ
2. Wrestling
3. Sambo and all other grapling skills
4. Standup.
by THORAZINE on Nov 19, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The early days of the UFC didn’t feature any elite strikers. Since high-level strikers have crossed over, stand-up has become equal to or better than a ground attack. Obviously you need both, but the early UFC days are a poor standard by which to judge disciplines’ effectiveness. The UFC was set up to showcase Gracie jiu-jitsu.
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 19, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maurice Smith
was an elite level striker whose striking credentials were far greater than anyone in the UFC today. He was a 2 time World Kickboxing Champion and went UNDEFEATED for TEN YEARS in kickboxing
He lost the UFC HW title to RANDY COUTURE!
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed'''
Shonuff, agreed, the disciplines and elite fighters in each were very comparable. I stand by what I wrote. The UFC tested all this for a number of years and in the beginning it had nothing to do with weight class or time limit, just 1 discipline. Not until strikers employed a wrestling takedown defense or the guard, did striking begin to make a comeback.
by THORAZINE on Nov 19, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. Good point.
Maurice was the one exception in terms of striking acumen that I was thinking about as I typed that. But his skills were already on the decline when he first fought in the UFC, and he stubbornly refused to learn even the most basic understanding of submission defence in his early MMA career. And my point below about no striker ever attaining a world title in three years of training stands.
If a striker can keep the fight on his feet, he wins. The problem is that you can pepper a guy all night, defend the TD consistently, then get taken down once and get battered or subbed. Wrestling and BJJ is ridiculously effective at winning fights, but I contend that striking at the highest levels requires more skill and training than grappling at the highest levels. Maia and GSP are the guys that come the closest to proving this wrong, and as we recentl;y saw, Maia’s predictable and mechanical stand-up got him KO’d before he coulkd take the fight into his world. All fights start on the feet. If the striker has the ability to keep it there, he can win . There are extreme exceptions in every discipline however, such as GSP, whose TDs are unstoppable.
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 19, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And one of the reasons GSP’s TDs are so unstoppable is that he is a great striker with great reach and speed, and he uses that to set his shots up.
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 19, 2009 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes but gsp didnt come from a wrestling background…hes not a division 1 all american like so many mma guys are now…
hes not like guys like brock and hendo and randy and kos and rashad and lindland and all these guys who are decorated wrestlers…hes a guy who picked it up along the way and happened to be good at it….
so using gsp is a bad example…hes actually the opposite of your point…hes a guy who added wrestling to his repetoire later and just got so good at it for the simple fact that he is such a good athlete…
by HellaHectic on Nov 19, 2009 4:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent point
Isn’t it interesting that the Wrestler (Hendo, Kos, Rashad,etc.) seem to try to get away from their wrestling backgrounds to prove that they can stand up. . and Karate guys like GSP and Machida are using their new found wrestling skills so effectively? Hmmm.
by haglnuts on Nov 19, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they're not TRYING
to get away from their grappling, they’ve just discovered that striking is a lot easier and can help them end a fight with a lot less effort.
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP may not have
started out with a wrestling pedigree, but he’s been training with Olympic wrestlers 4 or 5 times a week for years. He didn’t just get taken down in the cage one day and discover that he was a dominant grappler by nature. But that’s exactly what happens to a lot of these grapplers. They’re in a fight and throw an untrained punch and put a guy to sleep and realize, “Hey, I can hit! The same punch I used to give Jimmy Smith a black eye in third grade can KO professional fighters!”
Don’t misunderstand me here guys. I’m not saying that there’s nothing to striking as a discipline or that any ole shmo can become world-class with no training. I know it’s very complex and technical. But I do think that grapplers can get by without striking training a lot better than strikers can get by without training in grappling.
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WTF
JJ did u ever watch any early UFC (j/k)… UFC1 had Gerard Gordeau who was top level Kickboxing (or savate) im also pretty sure they had former boxers on there as well on some if first 10 cards, also by like ufc 11 or maybe 12 Vitor belfort was cleaning out the place.
I can see what ur saying, i just wanted to point out that there where top level strikers in the UFC back then ( and the top level then is no where near as high as what it is now) but i agree it was a showcase for Gracie Jits to prove it was unbeatable at the time.
and end of the day the most efficient discipline in MMA is Muay thai imo yeah ok u need to have some wrestling or bjj skills if you do get taken down, but how many times have u seen peeps like Andy and Aldo go for a takedown they like to keep it standing and strike and if the fight goes to the ground they more than happy to rain elbows etc on ur ass all day long
Every night i would pray to God for a new bike, then i realized God does not work that way, so i stole one and asked him to forgive me
by CoNr on Nov 19, 2009 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you harder than a 5th grader?
Brock, Hendo, Coleman, etc are proof that wrestlers can win fights with striking techniques commonly seen in playground fights at primary schools. But even a world class strikers can’t survive in MMA without some serious training in wrestling and BJJ. Why did Royce dominate the early UFC and submit huge guys from every skill set imaginable??? Because the only way to defend BJJ is with BJJ and nobody was cross-training back then. Same thing with wrestling. The only way to defend a TD is with wrestling sprawls, the only way to scramble back to your feet is with wresling. You can’t defend a double-leg with a jab or spinning back kick. Just as THORAZINE said, the only reason Strikers are able to compete is because they cross-train in grappling defense, whereas grapplers can get by with elementary-school striking techniques like duck-n-cover and hammer fisting a guy on the floor.
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TO BE FAIR- WRESTLING IS THE BEST ALL AROUND BASE
LOVE IT OR HATE IT – and yes if we had to suffer through wrestling matches that would suck.
You know obviously for your purposes you left out the two top belt holding wrestling based fighters that are #1s even if you debate Fedor vs Brock thing its still close enough.
WW – GSP
HW – Lesnar
And even though I am sure you may be on track more than off of it, almost every respectable camp and even little Bas believes wrestling is the best all around base, obviously some fighters are the rare exception.
by Syncro on Nov 18, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and why is that?
two reasons:
1) Positional control. Quite simply, wrestlers are able to put non-wrestlers into situations where they are uncomfortable. No amount of striking skill or training keeps you off your back. The only way to defend against a wrestler is with wrestling. Why was Chuck the only striker in LHW history to string together a series of title defenses? Because he had a wrestling base which he used in the form of mad takedown defense.
2) Striking comes naturally. While there are definitely big differences in skill, speed, and power and techniques to be learned like faking and footwork, every guy knows how to throw a punch and everybody knows how to put their hands up to block. Grappling on the other hand is often counter-instinctive and has to be learned and practiced till knowing how to manipulate your own weight and your opponent’s becomes second nature. So guys with a good grappling base can strike and learn striking easier than strikers can learn grappling. Just look how many grapplers have become good strikers (Chuck, Rampage, Hendo, Vitor, etc.) versus how many great strikers have become great grapplers (…..?…..oh and um….?…)
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GSP and Marcus Davis (pretty good) come to mind.
by MM_Eh on Nov 19, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendo is not a good striker. He just has dynamite in his right hand. Chuck’s sloppy style git him wins over other non-technical strikers, but eventually caught up with him. Rampage has good MMA boxing, but again, his skills are overrated because his power compensates for his lack of speed. He hasn’t thrown a jab in five years. Matt Hughes has been training stand-up for ten years and still can;t throw a punch.
Both disciplines are tough to be great in if your base is in another, but becoming a world class boxer or K-1 fighter takes longer than becoming a world class grappler. BJ won a world BJJ title after training for three years. Show me a boxer or K-1 fighter that won a world title with just three years of training.
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 19, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
every guy knows how to throw a punch and everybody knows how to put their hands up to block.
I think this can easily be countered with “every guy knows how to grab onto a guy a and drag him onto the ground or fall on top of him”. Is this a simplistic assessment of grappling? Yes. But so was your assesment of striking, which conveniently neglected things like footwork, timing, accuracy, and intuition, which take YEARS to develop. I would argue that wrestling comes more naturally than striking, as most elementary schoolyard fights are kids grappling with each other and rolling around.
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 19, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we're talking about effectiveness
elementary school floundering about is useless in the cage. How often does an untrained (in wrestling) striker take a guy down in MMA? Never. But how often have we seen sloppy, pedantic punches KO or TKO a superior striker? Plenty of times. You guys are constantly talking trash about the sloppy looping or awkward punches of Hendo, Rampage, Chuck, Jardine, and Fedor, but these guys frequently use primary-school techniques to KO far more technical strikers. Not to mention the effectiveness of striking on the ground and how many elite strikers have been TKOd by face-pounding moves that my 5 year old nephew frequently employs on his older brother.
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Prove it Alistair
He could talk and talk and we could speculate and speculate here but until he fights a top 10 HW and beat him, he will just remain a talking figure.
On a side note, did Overeem beat Belfort? when was that? by KO? by decision?
@JJ, I definitely agree with you that those names were not wrestlers but for God’s sakes, they know wrestling and practice wrestling as a discipline. And you forgot to put GSP there in the WW Division. he is not even a wrestler but utilizes superb wrestling abilities.
Cheers.
by Phasebook on Nov 18, 2009 10:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t mention GSP because he DOES obviously use wrestling as one of his primary weapons.
The guys I listed do not really use wrestling at all in their fights, and are the best in their respective weight classes. They would all get owned in a wrestling meet but are superb fighters, and are IMO capable of beating any wrestling-first opponent in their weight class. That was my point.
Wrestling is obviously a huge part of MMA, but I bristle at the notion that it is the best discipline. It controls where the fight takes place, but doesn’t end fights or provide the excitement that fans pay big money for. It’s more a way of neutralizing the disciplines that do end fights and are exciting (boxing, Muay Thai, Jui-jitsu).
"Cowards die many times before their deaths,
The valiant never taste of death but once."
Julius Caesar (II, ii, 32-37)
by Jeremyjackson on Nov 18, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No disagreement that wrestling is boring
by frosnt1 on Nov 18, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Aki for this.
Phasebook it was by submission back in Pride.
F wrestling….this is a thread about “the man”
I’m telling ya peoples, 2010 will be the year of the demolition man. Hop in the wagon before it’s gonna be too late.
War Overeem!
by Alpha Male on Nov 18, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
YES YES
Ya it does dictate where the fight takes place but I think we both agree lots of wrestlers like Shields etc etc can’t do anything once they get you down, can’t fight off their back, and can’t prevent others from taking them down. I wouldn’t want it as my base, and in real life I would rather have strikingand it makes for more exciting fights, and JJ uses intelligence and watching the baits and counters and multiple moves is as good as anything in my mind.
So maybe overall we agree with everything considered.
by Syncro on Nov 18, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I can’t stand are BJJ guys who can’t wrestle. They try and pull guard instead dictating and taking an opponent down. I think the two disciplines marry quite well and are most effective when used together.
by MM_Eh on Nov 18, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks JJ for the reply. Agree with you 100%
..and there is no such thing as the best discipline. that’s why it’s called MMA. You have to combine all the strengths of all discipline so that you can succeed in the long run. Cheers.
by Phasebook on Nov 19, 2009 4:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you might be right about shield's bjj but i heard alot of boo's from the audience at miller fight
you think strikeforce is going to put up with that. if they get henderson and match him up to sheilds do you think he has any chance at that fight? hendo will ktfo of him. end of shields story. rembember when hendo brutally knocked out bisping. the crowd went wild and wild fans buy tickets and watch mma . jake snoozefest shields better get some more style in his resume b/c nobody is going to want to fight him or watch him fight at all. i don’t dislike the man he just needs to add some moves and strikes so the fights are exciting. peace.
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 19, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hendo vs shields
is not a fair fight. Hendo is raelly a Lightheavy and Sheilds is really a Welterweight. Hendo is way bigger than Miller and look how small Miller made Sheilds look.
by (shonuff) on Nov 19, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hendo is listed as 6 feet 1 inch the guy is 5 feet 10 inches.
i used to live in vegas and i saw a couple of live events for ufc and wec. when carlos condit fought brock larson for the ww belt at the hard rock hotel i was there. henderson had signed with ufc about 7 weeks earlier. he was at the event. there is alot of downtime between fights and everybody mingles. the hard rock hotel in vegas in the old joint where they held their event only hold’s 1500 people. they have since added to the hard rock hotel with two new towers an a new joint where they have the concerts and some wec events. when the prelims started there might have been only 500 people there at the smaller old joint. i saw henderson up close and could not believe he was just the size of an average man. he is an incredible mma fighter but his is not big by any mean’s by middleweight standards
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 19, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok stop the shields hate
He us a JJ black belt you know and this was the first time in like 9 striaght fights that he hasn’t finished so get your facts traight.
by frosnt1 on Nov 18, 2009 11:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Spot on
It’s pathetic that a guy who has outstanding BJJ and has finished so many fights is getting bashed for not submitting a bigger fighter who never is submitted. Shields has a great mix of wrestling and jits in his AJJ style, he may not be a great striker but he’s still a dominant grappler who won a belt in a higher weight class in an exciting fight. Boring wrestler my arse.
by David W-S on Nov 18, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck jake shields……he has 24 wins but 11 decisons…with 10 subs and 3 kos…..AND hes NEVER fought anyone…saying he finished 9 straight fights…yet he STILL has more decision wins than submissions?
he still has never fought a top 10 fighter in any weight class….his obsession with gay porn fights is sickening…hes spent the past 3 years subbing no one worth a shit, none of the guys hes fought and subbed in the past 3 years when he was on his submission tear were top ranked opponents….
hes like the number 5 ranked 185 yet hes never beaten a top 10 ranked 185 fighter…or a top 10 ranked 170….
just wait till hendo gets signed to strikeforced and decides he wants a shot at the 185 belt…it will be the very first top ranked opponent that shields has ever faced….and do you think shields is gonna hold hendo down for 25 minutes and gay porn a win over him? you think hes gonna gay hump and hug hendo???
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK NOOOOOOOOOO
hendo will stuff his first 2 takedown attempts and then send his head into the 3rd row with one right hand…
by HellaHectic on Nov 19, 2009 4:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t hate Shields, I just think maybe he is in the wrong weight class and I don’t love watching his fights at least 50% of the time. Last fight I was waaay more disappointed with Miller though.
by Syncro on Nov 18, 2009 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i don't hate shields. i just don't like his style of fighting
i rather cung le fight scott smith then see him fight shields. you have to be kind of a crowd pleaser these days. i personally want to witness a great fight, with high entertainment value. jake shields can always go back on bully beatdown for a second time around
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 19, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
im telling you…sheilds has never fought a top ranked guy…hendo will be his first top ranked guy when he signs to strikeforce and wants a shot at that 185 belt….and like i said in my above post…its gonna be funny when shields tries to gay porn his lay and gay hump fest to hendo….you actually think hes gonna hold hendo down for 25 minutes????
SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITT
by HellaHectic on Nov 19, 2009 4:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree, hendo would knock him out like he did bisping and shut his sorry azz up!
yes i am obsessive, obnoxious, in your face and all about covering the spread. those are my good qualities.
by wolfmanshowlforever on Nov 19, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow he is going to fight
good for him. fuckin reject. He should take another year away from strikeforce after he fights he deserves it lol.
by ElStIkO on Nov 19, 2009 8:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

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