UFC 109: Matt Hughes vs Renzo Gracie under consideration for Feb. 6

Before people start hating on him, this is a good move for Hughes. He can’t hang with the big dogs at WW, so why even try. “Shonuff” had a good post in the TUF discussion, saying that Hughes isn’t good enough for the AKA’s, Rumbles, Hardys, Kampmanns, and Alves, so why ruin his legacy by just getting beat by all these guys better than him? It would be a mismatch, and really, will any of those guys become a better fighter by facing Hughes, or by facing other young, hungry, and explosive challengers?

These guys calling our Hughes just want a win over a “name” to get a fast-track title shot and avoid having to fight the tougher guys. AKA, Rumble, Hardy, Kampmann, Semtex, Alves, Condit, Haze – these guys should fight each other, and not 34+ year old established guys who are past their prime.

Oh I am pumped for this fight!! Finally Renzo is in the UFC and hopefully he will demolish Hughes (whom I hate more than anyone in MMA probably)!!

can I start hating now?…haha…god I hope Gracie puts a beat down on him

Syn, we know he can’t hang with AKA or guys like Rumble, Semtex, etc. Hughes knows it too. But he still thinks he should somehow get another title shot after beating a couple guys who aren’t top 15, or even top 20.

ehhh… i think he wants one yeah, but i dont think he actually thinks that by beating Renzo and say, Karo Parysian that he’d get a title shot.

thats what I hear him say too is that he wants GSP again…its laughable at this point but for him to even have a shot at Alves, GSP (both of whom he wants to rematch) he’ll have to answer the calls from the guys at AKA

The article says he is “adamant” about making another run at the title. Hughes just doesn’t want to actually fight the guys, and there are lots of them, that are in between him and the title.

I am sure Hughes wants GSP again just to cash in on the PPV and compete against the best.

If I was a past my prime warrior I would make sure that my last fight was against the dominant champ while I get paid some good $$$.

Hughes has earned the right to skip the AKA guys. Fock them. When the AKA guys have equaled what Hughes has done then I will pay attention to them.

BTW – I hate Hughes.

PW…maybe he means he wants to literally run at it…maybe jump up in the air and high five it…I’m sure GSP would let him use it for a minute or so…I don’t think he actually means he wants to win it

The only thing that would give Hughes a chance at getting a title shot would be to change camps. I know he has his own camp now and there are a few decent fighters there but he’s the exact same fighter he used to be but much less refined and a bit slower. His styles was effective for years now but he’s not able to overpower his opponent like he used to so it’s time to refine his style and add onto it. He needs to get out of that camp and concentrate more on his stand up game and defense if he is serious about making another run at the title.

sounds like the same convo we had about Tito yesterday…makes sense…good post Bust

True Busta, who’s good at Hit Squad? Sorry Syn, but Renzo gonna squeeze the Be"jesus" out of him.

just like his star pupil Matt Serra did?

Why doesn’t the UFC just start a new division for “Over-the-Hill” fighters to compete in. We now got Hughes, Coleman, Couture, Renzo, Trigg, Liddell, etc…

imo Serra won that fight

i had serra winning

it was close but after the headbutt in the beggining Hughes landed a big TD and took Serras back. Round couldve gone either way.

The rest of the fight was really Hughes Taking serra down and jsut grinding. Serra really had nothing from the bottom besides some rubber guard techniques and he landed a big td of his own but couldnt keep top position.

IMO it came down to Hughes jsut haveing more offense and nuetralizing SErra on the ground….I see it happenning again this go around also

Synyster I agree 100% with you. I think the UFC should be mathing up the younger cats, while putting the older cats such as Ortiz, Hughes, Liddell & Gracie to fight amongst eachother. They still draw a crowd. I got into MMA because of these cats & would pay to see them fight eachother. I don’t wanna see them get smashed by a younger cat.

I have to go with Hughes on this one.

PATHETIC!!!! I have a serious problem with the UFC having to search far and wide and sign 40 year old opponents so that Hughes can POSSIBLY get a win! Especially since it will be sold to us as a big fight.

I hate Hughes, but he has a legend who has earned the right to continue to fight..but if you want to continue and fight, then fight real opponents. Stop picking and choosing opponents! and if the UFC is going to show loyaty and continue to let hughes fight….Then it shouldnt be sold to us as a co-main event on a $45 UFC ppv! This fight barely deserves to be a co-main event on a UFN!

They finally found a 40 year old that Hughes is actually willing to fight. Funny thing is, Hughes is going to lose to Renzo anyway!

PATHETIC! WAR RENZO!

I cant agree more….the UFC should be above this and above Tito vs Forrest as a Main event….this is sad very sad

best renzo quote ever: “BJ was on his father’s nutsack when i was fighting already!”

very sad indeed Robert(1)!

I used to breath UFC! Now, I lose interest in the UFC more and more each day! I seriously think the UFC is on the decline!

I am completely fed up with Dana Wite! I have had enough of him. Yes he has done LOT FOR THE SPORT, but that was years ago. Its been a while since he has done ANYTHING for mma…Only thing he does anything for is his pockets!

I personally think that Dana has done all he could for the UFC. He was the right man for the job back in the day…but he hurts the UFC more then he helps it these days!

I honestly think that if Dana gets FIRED, which he wont….Fedor will sign with the uFC immediately!

The UFC has reached its maximum potential with Dana white steering the ship. UFC wont grow anymore until Dana is replaced!

Agreed to a certain extent.

I was commenting to a casual fan/friend of mine that the UFC has hit a ceiling and is on a slight decline.

Repeating irrelevant matches (Griffin v. Tito) and asking John Q. Public to pay for that is a big stretch.

UFC has stalled a bit right now…

anyone who wouldnt pay to see this fight sucks as an MMA fan

A lot of this has to do with an unprecedented run of injuries/illnesses lately. Dana has been forced to scramble, reshuffle cards, get last-minute replacements and the cards all still feature a lot of well-known and successful fighters, some title fights and No 1 contender fights. I agree that Hughes-Renzo and Tito-Forrest should be at best the first or second fight on the main card instead of ME’s, but these last few weeks have probably been as difficult as any time since Dana started running the UFC, other than the near-broke early days, and all things considered he’s doing all right.

Spot on John, completely pointless fight and it indicates a move in the wrong direction of the UFC. Hopefully Renzo wins as I can’t stand that fightducking arrogant farmer but I don’t care about this fight at all. Signing old has beens is not going to help the sport grow. Between that, all of the injuries and Dana pissing off top talent it’s hard to get excited, thank god for Couture fighting on Saturday.

Anyone who wouldn’t pay to see this fight four or five years ago sucks as an mma fan! But Hughes claims that he wants to make a run (which I assume means run at the title?) and even if this fight turns out to be one of the greatest of all time (which lets face it,we know it won’t) it has no bearing what so ever on the ufc’s welterwieght title picture.

John, I guess moving into Australia isnt growth?

I couldnt care less where the UFC holds its events. They can hold every single event in Vegas as far as Im concerned…as long as I get to watch it! You call that growth?

Holding shows outside of Vegas IS GROWTH. Being the first major MMA promotion to go to Germany, Austrailia, Philipines, Madison Square Garden, Canada, Mexico City isn’t considered growth? How would holding every single UFC in Vegas help?

You guys are letting your hate for Hughes get to you. This fight will NOT have any impact on rankings or No. 1 contenders. Hughes is NOT ELITE anymore. He is not knocking on the door of the top 10, regardless of what he thinks. He is fighting a guy his skill level. Anyone else and he’d just be a tough can to crack.

You guys just want to see Hughes get overwhelmed and soundly beaten, with complete disregard to meaningful fights. Would Hughes vs ANYONE of these guys make sense:
AKA
Rumble
Kampmann
Hardy
Condit
Haze
Semtex
Alves
None of these fight make sense for an over the hill former champ. It’d be as meaningful as putting Chuck vs T.Silva or Jardine again.

Hughes vs Renzo fits perfectly. Start looking at thing without personal bias guys.

I actually would love to see this match-up. I think many of you would tune in.I would rather see Hughes or Gracie than some of these bums the UFC is putting on main cards lately. I know it and you know it. Hughes vs the best 170lb’ers, NO. Gracie vs the best 170lb’ers, NO, But vs each other, YES!!!!

yeah, Hughes fighting the AKA guys makes about as much sense as Randy fighting someone like idunno, Brandon Vera! Oh wait, the AKA guys are all ranked, and Vera has never beaten a ranked opponent! My bad!

As I said in the other thread, I think this is exactly the kind of fight Hughes should be having. Whatever we think of him as a person, he’s the longest running Champion in UFC history. He’s paid his dues and earned his props and deserves to go down fighting other past-their-prime legends instead of being used as a doormat by up-n-comers who will never hold a belt.

A fight doesn’t have to be title-relevant to be a great match or an entertaining fight. As a die-hard fan, I’d much rather see fights we should have seen years ago like Hughes/Sakuraba, Hughes/Frank Shamrock, or Hughes/Gomi than pointless mismatches like Hughes/Alves.

I think you’ve got a great point there Bobby. If Hughes can cut to 155, he’d have his strength advantage back. He used to be a “big welterweight” but GSP, Alves, and Rumble make him look like a midget. Even BJ looks bigger than Hughes. But I think there could be a lot of very interesting fights for him at Lightweigh, including a tie-breaker with Mama’s Boy Penn.

Honestly, I think he poses a bigger threat to Penn than anyone in the Lightweight division. Maybe when he said he wanted to make another title run, he was picturing BJ instead of Georges. I don’t think that would be so unrealistic at all. BJ is very inconsistent and always capable of beating himself with laziness and Hughes is just the kind of guy he’d sleep on and pay heavy for it.

Hughes just spoke at my school yesterday and he talked about his faith at length so anyone who thinks that he isn’t a good guy needs to get a clue. If u hate him or dislike him have to be some casual GSP fanatic because Hughes is a 9 time UFC champion who has defended a UFC belt more than anyone so he deserves some respect. Hughes will beat Gracie and he would have beat Alves if it wasn’t for his Knee giving out. Hughes still has some fight in him, you just wait and see.

That was a judgementally assholish thing to say. Does that make you a man of faith?

Lol, people in general tend to be judgemental. People often hate Christians(and people of other faiths) because of their “narrow views”. So, they dislike the fact that those people don’t agree with their own views, which makes those people “narrow-minded”. Makes a whole lot of sense, right?

That’s not judgemental, that’s fact. I said “tend” to be, not all are.

Think you need to check your definition of “fact”. While that may be your own personal experience, it most certainly can not be accurately stated as a “fact”. Not to mention that was, as PW pointed out, a very hypocritical statement.

GSP is “the” best WW of all time…Hughes resume doesn’t even come close to Georges’

he beat serra in his last fight and serra beat gsp who are you to say hughes is done and dusted ? why is it on this site that every1 just critasise fighters all the time ?

McArthur. you need to go back and do some research. Matt Hughes is hands down considered the greatest WW of all time. His record speaks for itself. he owned the division for years, the sport has just outgrown him.

give GSP 10 years when hes around Hughs’ age, then well call him the best WW of all time after he defends/wins the belt a total of 9 times.

you sir, are an idi*t…research? are you kidding? Look at who Hughes defended against compared to who GSP has defended against, type them out and post it…name ONE GUY (other than GSP himself) that would be title shot worthy today, ages aside. Trigg? Newton? This will be easy

oh wait…I forgot about the great Gil Castillo, Sherk, and Joe Riggs…hahahahaha

With you on this one Mac. GSP beats number 1 through 5 every fight. Matt Hughes’ record may be longer, but the quality of fighters isn’t any where near GSP’s record. GSP is the greatest WW of all time. Anyone saying otherwise needs their head examined.

GSP greatest currently

Hughes greatest of all time.

The fighters you listed were all the top contenders when Hughes fought them. THe sport is different now.

I dont doubt GSP will be the greatest eventually, but he isnt yet.

You forgot Serra btw…Who KO’d GSP.

So Matt Hughes has never been KO’d? Bad argument. GSP greatest of all time. End of story. His record is filled with far better fighters, they faced eachother 3 times with GSP winning twice. I don’t see any way that someone could say Hughes is the greatest of all time. When GSP beat him twice he was still in his prime, so how is Hughes better again?

I will say Hughes was the greatest of all time. Until GSP came along. Nothing wrong with being the second greatest.

silly debate! I dont think there is any question that GSP surpassed HUghes as the greatest! GSP would have even beaten Hughes in their 1st fight, when Hughes was on top of the world if GSP wasnt so star struck!

I see where youre coming from. They share alot of the same victories and GSP did come out on top in their series.

call me old fashioned i just think hes too young to be called the greatest of all time.

Hughes string of title defenses and his title reign was one of the most exciting and impressive ones in history. and there no denying his legacy in the sport and the division. He set the path for fighters like GSP to come along. That is why i think he is the #1 WW in the history.

and i dont think hughes was in his prime the second 2 GSP fights. the 2n bj fight is where that became apparent. Hughes was in his prime around the Trigg fights.

you cant use that argument Mac… at the time, those were great fghters, worthy of a title shot! Newton was awesome, Sakurai was awesome, Penn was awesome, still is, Trigg (x2) was WIDELY considered the #2 WW at the time. GSP has only beaten Alves, Fitch, Serra (who he also lost to) and an old Hughes. Now I HATE Hughes, but his resume is very impressive. He dominated the divsion for a long long time. GSP will probably be the best when all is sad an done, but only time will tell.

boyer, I understand your point about Hughes having some more fights left in him. However just because fighter A beats fighter B and fighter B beats fighter C does not mean A can or will beat C. Fights don’t work that way.

^^ what i was trying to say. different era in the sport

Casear, were those guys awesome? Or were our standards so low back then that they seemed awesome. If you plucked those guys out of that time and brought them to today they would be out of the top ten. The skill set those guys all had wouldn’t match up well against today’s guys. I kind of see what you are talking about brendog, but that’s not the way it should work. Today’s GSP against the best Matt Hughes ever was, would be a complete walk for GSP. Maybe Hughes had the greatest run as champ (so far), but talent wise GSP is on another level compared to anything Hughes ever was.

time and place doesn’t matter…The best GSP would beat the best Hughes…Would you say Tito is the best LHW ever because he defended 5 times? no. Hughes’ resume is long but not as impressive as GSP’s…Hughes was ALWAYS favoured to win whereas GSP was favoured only slightly over his last 3 opponents, Fitch, BJ, and Alves

This is similar to saying Peyton Mannign is the best Quarterback of all time.

The games have changed since Hughes and say Joe Montana were at the top. Saying GSP is better because todays fighters are better than yesterdays fighters is like comparing apples to oranges.

 when Peyton gets older and eventually retires he will probably go down as the best or one of the best ever. Same with GSP

Would ou say Peyton Manning is the best Quarterback of all time?

Yeah, Peyton is probably the best QB of all time IMO. This is a tough argument, with merit on both sides. I can say that Ted Williams was the best pure hitter of all time since he’s the only batter to ever go a complete season hitting over .400. Not to mention he did it again in shortened seasons because he fought in WWII. You might say, “Yeah, but do you think if he was facing John Smoltz, Roger Clemens, CC Sabathia, etc. that he would’ve done that?” And you may have a point, but at the same time this is the live ball era and more HR’s are hit than ever. Point being, there are valid arguments on both sides. I personally think that GSP is the best WW fighter of ever. That’s just based on matching him up against any other WW fighter, and my thoughts on who would win. But I guess a large part of the argument lies on your criteria for “best of all time”. For instance, I think Peyton Manning is a much better QB than Tom Brady, but Tom Brady has 3 Super Bowl rings(large part of that rests on the fact that it is a team sport). Some people put much more emphasis on that then I do. Whatever, I’m just rambling, hopefully you get the point.

To be fair, since sports are ever evolving, no matter what sport, you can only compare the greatest of all time players by comparing their era’s in which they dominated in. The competition that Hughes faced during his run was equal to what GSP is facing now as far as skills go. However, where I feel the argument is lost as to Hughes being the GOAT is that the Hughes era overlaps GSP and they have fought each other.

Considering that GSP beat Hughes 2 out of 3 times…

This is not a debateable subject.

End.

truth.

“Best” in this conversation or any conversation about different eras has to be defined as “most dominant.” So is Tito one of the best ever? Yeah. Would the 72 Dolphins or the 85 Bears win this year’s Super Bowl? NO WAY! Would they make the playoffs this year? NO WAY! But they were dominant in their time, so they are considered among the best football teams ever! Same thing here. Would Hughes from 8 years ago be Top 10 today? No, but he crushed everyone in the world 8 years ago, so thats all we can go by. Yes, those guys were awesome because they were Top 5 in the world back then.

Diceman, Peyton sucks!! haha WAR BRADY!!!!!!

Brady was gifted the most ridiculous teams in NFL history. My left nut could’ve quarterbacked those teams to a championship! WAR MANNING!

There are arguments on both sides for Hughes / GSP being the greatest of all time.

One thing i’ll say about Hughes’ defences of his title, they were always interesting fights. I can’t say the same for GSP unfortunatley. I know Hughes couldn’t KO anyone but there was always an element of drama which is sadly lacking from GSPs post Serra KO title defences.

So i guess until GSP starts finishing the likes of Fitch and Alves i’ll probably remember Hughes’ run as greater….

Are you saying that Hughes put on exciting fights and GSP doesn’t? That is the funniest thing I’ve read today. Sorry if GSP isn’t able to finish the number 2 and 3 guys in the world. Nonsense post, should have just kept that type of nonsense inside your head where it can’t pollute the internet.

Perspective people. You have to take the times into account and people’s rankings/standings then. That’s all i will say on this topic.

So it would have been something special if GSP finished the No. 2 and 3 guys in his division when he is undoubtedly the No.1?

When you compare Hughes and GSP in that sense, Hughes only went to 1 decision vs Sherk, whereas GSP hasn’t had a successful title FINISH. He won the belt with stoppages over Hughes twice, and Serra, but couldn’t finish Fitch, Alves, and BJ quit in between rounds. The BJ fight wasn’t exactly a real finish. But if BJ woulda answered the bell, I highly doubt he’d have been finished, and that would have been a decision too.

The number 2-5 guys now would still beat Matt Hughes in his prime. That is what I meant about not being able to finish the top 2 guys. I’m not only 100% sure that GSP is better than Hughes ever was, but I also believe that 5 or 6 other guys in the WW division today are better than he could ever have dreamed to be.

Gifted teams? He had nobody’s as receivers for every super bowl. He carried that team on his back! If he had Harrison, he’d won 5 Super Bowls atleast! BUt anyway, back to MMA, you cant compare eras… Renzo for the win!!!!!!

Sometimes when you win, you actually lose. And sometimes when you lose, you actually win. And sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. And sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie.

lol! Poor OJ!

Must be happy hour in TX for PW.

:)

Put a hoochie Puerto Rican accent on my last post and see if you can identify the quote. And I’ve got a sinus infection right now, so happy hours aren’t doing me a damn bit of good. Now the Nyquil, however . . .

Rosie Perez from White Men Can’t Jump. That pendeja…

dam thats a tough one Dubs…I’m stumped but give me a few more minutes to tune my Puerto Rican accent

DOH!

White Men Can’t Jump

aww, didn’t see your post OJR, that quote had me thinking. I used to love that movie.

I heard once that he can sub you just by thinking about it

shit it will be the co main event, not that i think it should be but thats probally what it will be.

I know! Duh! I’m just saying that I hope the UFC will look at it from the fans perspective and not force such a crappy fight on us. Matt hughes is SO Boring now, and what the heck is up with him blatantly turning down difficult fights and searching for someone over the hill? Its a pretty pathetic strategy to get paid and remain in the spot light.

Syncro, you don’t need a truce, we are all grown men. Someone you yell at today is still your posting buddy tomorrow, no grudges are ever held on this site.

Not true, jay. Some posters hold grudges…

I have heated arguments with almost every poster on here. I hope no one holds a grudge against me. I do like to get F’ed up and post, so some of the stuff I say may seem crazy at times. No one I’ve argued with seems to have a problem talking MMA when I see them again.

He wouldn’t accept that fight because I’m under 50 years old.

not bad

Odd. Syncro’s seems to work just fine.

ya my bad I hit the “Complete BS” button instead

You guys are good, I lol’d for sure.

Less owned = dominated for three rounds instead of five.

You really think Shields is better? KOS has great wrestling and a KO punch I can’t see Shields doing anything to him standig or on the ground he beats Shields.

shields and koscheck are pretty similar fighters from really good camps. Koscheck has the advantage on the feet and jake on the ground. I think if Jake gets it down there he would beat Koscheck.

I think shields also has the superior skillset, more experience, and a slightly more impressive resume than koscheck.

combined into one person they could take 2 of 5 rounds from GSP

Kos will take fights on short notice no matter who the opponent. How many mma fighters would do that? He would fight on every card if UFC would let him.. How can you hate on a guy like that? He’s not one of my favorites but he is solid and has saved the UFC’s ass several times.