thats a great picture holland. lol and honestly jackscan nobody likes you, you could quit posting and everybody would be happier for it. you stole your name from one of the most reputable members of this site….a sure sign of trolling at its worst.

I have to straight out DISAGREE with Cecil. first off he is a joke, just look at the pic holland posted as proof. also his decision regarding this fight alone makes him a fool, and second off, he is part of many contoversial deisions in MMA. regardless of what anybody says i was a bigggg time on the shogun war wagon (check the previous posts) and i have watched the fight without audio first, with audio after, and also trying to view the fight going machida’s way. But in no circumstance did i ever see Machida winning the fight, (i say i was on the Shongun war wagon…meaning i was pulling for Shogun and i also knew he was going to put up a better fight than anybody gave him credit for) but myself like so many other people, thought machida was going to win by decision, based on pure hype. Mistake on my part, i should have stuck with my original choice lol

First off, I rewatched every exchange several times. No way in hell Machida’s shots were harder. In fact very few of his punches even penetrated Shogun’s guard an most of his kicks were delivered from too close a range to be effective. Shogun was blocking and checking. Machida wasn’t.

But the bigger problem here is that the whole round scoring system is a flawed concept. In a regular 3-round fight, the first 2 rounds could be razor thin and go to Fighter A on a coin toss, then Fighter B could beat him senseless and clearly be seconds away from finishing the fight when the final bell rings and still lose the fight. Imagine an NBA game where Team A was ahead by a point or two for the first three quarters and then in the 4th quarter Team B rallies to drive the final score to 120-90 but the officials rule that Team A still wins because they "won" the first 3 quarters. It’s a bullshit way of scoring. PRIDE understood that a fight is a fight, not 3 or 5 mini-scuffles and a war is won by total damage, not by the who won the most battles. Otherwise I’d be living in the Confederate States of America right now.

Machidas strikes were not harder at all. That’s why Shogun didn’t look beat up at all and Machida did. I rewatched the fight with no audio and the decision was still the same. It was a close fight but Machida lost. To say that Machida was landing the harder shots seems pretty ridiculous to me. It is all a matter of opinion, but Shogun certainly did more damage than Machida and it shows.

Shonuff but if he was seconds away fromm finishing or close to finishing a few times you get a 10-8 round(normally) in that case, which brings you forward. The only flaw in this fight was that both fighters were content on taking it to a decision. Neither fighter put a drown on top of their performance. Shogun openly admits he was comforatable with riding out a decision. I may be mistaken, if it was any other fighter that had come out and said that 99% of would be flaming him for that mentality. IT is a championship fight and neither fighter fought like they wanted to be champion. That was nothing more then a glorified, overpriced, and overpaid full contact sparring session. I know it is MAchida and if you go in for the kill that is when you lose, but Rua and Machida really did verly little outside of a few occasional exchanges and power shots by both, some leg kicks and jabs to the head on both. Both fighters did 5 rounds of fighting with both bareling breaking 100 shots. Machida threw a 100 or 105 and Rua threw 130, 40 or so which where leg kicks. That is 20 to 25 shots thrown give or take a round by each fighter. That is a snooze fest if it is 2 different fighters.

Cecil Peoples is a TIT and has no business judging MMA. He consistently gets it totally wrong in a lot of fights. Either he is biased before he goes into the fight and sees what he wants or he has a fucking stupid method to actually scoring….personally I think its both.

He can fucking go to hell and suck satans cock while his there….the PRICK!

he looks like Stanley from The Office

Cecil is both a horrible judge and referee. The man picks and chooses which criterias of the unified rules he wants to follow. When i read his explanation and he essentially said that he was giving Machida pts for stopping takedowns as part of “effective grappling” that’s when i realized that his complete idiocy is on a level that i could have never imagined. I just figured he didn’t bother to watch the match and simply chose the more popular fighter. Also Someone please find a gif of his stoppage of Santiago-Salmon. I’d like to believe that it sums him and his life up pretty succinctly.

I agree, the first 3 rounds each time shogun kicked machida coiuntered to the face and body, as well as landing his own kicks. The first 3 rounds were close but i could see them going to machida, the last two shogun was kicking much more and won thise two, nowhere in that fight was machida hurt, but there was 3 or 4 occassions when machida threw combos that could have finished a lesser fighter than shogun. good judging, sorry shogun fans, but in the rematch lyoto will leave no doubt, all shogun has was kicks, and they will neutralize that, in the meantime no way to stop the superior handspeed, footwork, timing of machida

Is Peoples a horrible judge? Yes. Are nearly all of the other judges just as bad? Yes. Can we do anything about it? No.

I’ve watched the fight like 10 times, with audio, without audio, with my back turned to the screen, while reading a magazine… Funny thing is, no matter how many times I watch it, it is always a UD win for Machida.

Machida = winner
Shogun = loser

Fans = winners since we get to see an exciting rematch.

It’s a known fact Cole that Cecil is one or the worse referee and Judge in MMA since a long time. Dan Miragliotta and Cecil Peoples are the 2 referees with the most fighting injuries under their watch. And it’s not the first time that Cecil is criticize on his judging. I agree with NNR on this, giving pts for stopping takedowns as part of "effective grappling" is plain stupid. The guy should be a shame of himself but instead he seem like a old senile that doesn’t understand what he’s doing wrong and keep doing it 95% of the time, and then saying "If you don’t like it, you can go to hell." What a dumb@$$. I truly hate that f*%ker.

Alpha as long as the commissions are in charge of hiring the officials and judges, fight fans will get shortchanged. MMA needs to have a body of independent judges and referees with technichal backgrounds in competitive grappling/wrestling, BJJ/judo, and striking.

Absolutely agree Cole. Fortunately the McCarthy C.O.M.M.A.N.D school is a step in the right direction for referees and Judging class. More need to be done though.
Ca$z… I just saw that Braulio won the -87.9kg and the Absolute at Barcelona. Very nice, he was my pick to win the all thing. It must have been a blast to see him win live? Hope that you had a great time over there?

check out the cecil peoples doll

http://www.cagetoday.com/funny-pic-fake-ufc-action-figures-starns-white-rogan-ortiz-and-peoples/

I can’t understand what most of you guys are talking about. Someone said that all three judges scored the second round to Shogun which is wrong. All three scored the second round for Machida. Only one judge gave the first round to Shogun and the fourth round to Machida(http://mmamania.com/2009/10/27/a-closer-look-at-the-official-scorecards-for-ufc-104-machida-vs-shogun-pic/#more-17822). Also what Peoples is saying about scoring is correct. Quite a few times during the fight when there was an exchange where Shogun was throwing a leg kick Machida was hitting him in the face. Which we all know scores higher than a leg kick every day of the week.

Also someone said that shogun wasn’t visibly hurt after the fight, no bruises or swelling. You better watch the end of the fight again. I didn’t realize shogun had lumps all over his head and bruising under his eyes all the time.

The next thing has to do with everyone bitching about Peoples. Saying that he scores things on his own criteria. We have to remember that there were 3 judges who scored the fight almost identical.

CECIL PEOPLES is an IDIOT!!!

What a joke! This guy is just a piece of Crap! Believe me when I tell you that I lost a ton of money on Shogun, but I dont care about the money. My comments aRENT fueld by the loss of money. Machida and Shogun are 2 of my very favorite fighters, but seeing Shogun heartbroken in the Octagon after overcoming all odds and doing what 95% of the world thought was impossible was just sad. Not only did Cecil rob shogun out of his dream, but he robbed him out of hundreds of thousands of dollars of his lively hood.

Whats worse is that the Peace of crap, Cecil just thinks that the only reason people are mad is because they bet money on Shogun. wtf is he talking about? Everyone had there money on Machida. Me and about 9 other people thought shogun was going to win the fight. Out of the ten people who thought Shogun would win, only 3 probably bet money on him…yet the entire WORLD feels that shogun won that fight. Yes losing the money hurt, but I would be happy if they just took my money and gave Shogun the win. why? Because I adore this Fockin sport!

The outrage sorrounding this fight has nothing to do with money I lost!

Forget my money, Cecil robbed:
MMA of its legitimacy
The legitamy of the UFC LHW title
Shogun’s dream and 4 months of blood,sweat and tears
Shogun of 6 figures worth of his lively hood

This peice of crap Cecil needs to realize that he has the honor of being a judge in an amazing sport. Not only is it an honor, but its his job and DUTY to get the decisions correct! He didnt do his job! If I dont do my job, I get Fired! Yet this idiot has messed up so many decisions, yet still has the privilege of having this amazing job!

Not all fights can end in a KO or submission, and when they do go to a decision, its his JOB and DUTY to get the decision right. His track record shows that he Doesnt DO HIS JOB..so why does he still have the priviledge of sitting ringside, making at least 6 figure salary to continue to put a back eye on my beloved sport? Just because you are a judge or Ref in mma, shouldnt mean that you get to hold that position for life no matter how bad you mess up! When will it be enough? How many fights do Mazzaggatti and Peoples need to screw up before something is done about it? Its just a JOKE!

Randy had shogun winning 4 rounds to one!
Rampage had shogun winning
BJ Penn has come forward and said that Shogun won
Dana had shogun winning
The entire staples center had shogun winning
98% of this site had Shogun winning

yet this Idiot, Peoples, still has the audacity to defend himself and basically tell the fans to Fock off!

Something NEEDS to change. I have had enough!

John even a biased Machida fan like myself who predicted an easy win for Lyoto from the start had Shogun winning and booed the decision. Peoples is a disgrace and should be blackballed from the sport, balls to banning a top ref like Big John get rid of the incompetent and arrogant tossers like Peoples who constantly blight the sport with their pathetic decisions. He was a negligent ref and a clueless judge, get rid of him now.

aint it anoying when you gotta write it twice lol ?

I’m sick of this, Macida won, that is that, there will be a rematch. BTW Jeremy Jackson, your facts are off when your saying that all three judges scored round 3 to Shogun. Might want to check up before you write stuff. and Shonuff, thats how fights are scored, this is how they have always been scored, by the round. Wether it’s boxing MMA or any other fight sport, that’s how it’s done. What are you proposing exactly? at the end of the fight count how many cuts each guy has and give it to the guy who suffered the fewest!? then wait a week and count the bruises that come up!? Pride scored in exactly the same way they just had a longer first round. You bitter Shogun fans talk so much sh*t.

Imeant to say scored round 2 to shogun

Also in response to the picture, I can’t even tell if it’s a black guy, let alone definately say that it’s Cecil Peoples and it’s from a totally different fight and bears no relevance.

I wasn’t even a Shogun fan until I saw this fight. He knocked Liddell into retirement and that SUCKED to see. haha. Now though, I see that Shogun still had what he had in him in PRIDE. Lets hope he doesn’t test positive for steroids ;)

Sorry, Fat Kick, but in PRIDE the judges were allowed to declare a winner or a draw based on the fight as a whole, not on the sum of individually scored rounds. The 10 Point Must Round Scoring system came into effect when the UFC started trying to reach broader markets by submitting to the authority of state athletic commisions in states where MMA was able to get legalized. That’s when UFC became more mainstream, but also when the judging got all screwed up.

Exactly hopefully in the future this gets fixed but we will with out a doubt go through a lot more close decisions that most believe should of went the other way but even then Pride had some controversial decisions but I agree was more accurate. I know Dana has been trying to get the sytem changed but in the end the athletic commision has the say.

JeremyJackscan — I’m with you on his. People’s clearly describes his criteria for judging the “damage.” As soon as two judges gave Machida rounds 1-3, the fight was over.

I also had Rua winning, and was pissed after the fight. However, I don’t think the judges are total morons. They had good reasons — from their vantage — why they judged the fight the way they did. I can see People’s perspective on this… which shows me the nuanced methods these judges use make their decisions in a razor-thin contest.

I wouldn’t want to be these judges, that’s for sure. But I like People’s attitude.

So what you are saying is that if you Shogun would have lost this fight in pride then you wouldn’t have thought it was a bad decision. Give me a break it doesn’t matter what scoring system you put out there. We are always going to have controversial decisions when a fight is this close. If Shogun would have won a lot of people would be saying it was a bad decision as well. So no matter what this was going to piss people off.

I like Cecil’s stoppage of Nate Quarry and Pete Sell, pretty much sums up how we all feel when he refs/judges a fight!

Thankyou Daniel, I swear, since Shogun lost this website has turned into the Shogun fanclub site. Shogun fans are some of the most closed minded biased fight fans I’ve come across.

You guys are forgetting that before the fight all these guys were saying Machida was gonna destroy shogun. Most of these folks had money on Machida, just like Cecil Peoples aparently did. Difference is, people on here didn’t let their wallets color their view of the fight.

Who’s “all these guys”?

Have you ever been on this site? It was overwhelming how many Shogun dick suckers there were on here prior to the fight. I seriously, seriously don’t understand how you can sit here and tell me EVERY1 was a machida lover going into this fight! It was 50/50 at best! Probs lower for machida!

Only supporters of machida besides me and a handful, were the Vegas spreads! With rights! The man was 15-0 headed into defend his belt against a 1-1-1 (Coleman wasn’t a win).

Man you guys are stubborn and ridiculous!

Cheers low kick

SHOGUN GOT ROBBED!!!

you’re an idiot. you say there are no if’s or buts and then start talking about IF they had to go another round blah blah. And then you say “so what about the 1st round” ok, well lets apply that same logic again, so what about the 4th or fifth rounds, HE ALREADY LOST THE FIRST THREE,THOSE ARE THE F*CKING RULES, and the last two rounds were never in a million years 10-8 rounds. you have no idea how to judge a fight, you are full of sh*t.

Also he says “just look @ machidas eyes, you can tell he lost”. Fuck me I’m glad we have Cecil judging not you! That’s gotta be the worst, shit for poor, way to rule a fight! My god!

good call, mmafan. Let Cecil put his guard up and get jabbed by Machida. Then let him get kicked by Shogun. Then let him decide which is a more effective technique.

he knows that

Yeah but the thing is that Cecil wasn’t a judge at UFC 66 but a referee. That’s why he’s got his back turn to the action.

Why? That’s what Forrest basically did against Rampage.

bobby, you forget the Shogun also landed more PUNCHES to the HEAD than Machida did! Shogun outpunched him 17-14. (Machida missed 79% of his 65 attempted head shots)

Cecil is a tatal IDIOT!

in the flurry at the end of the 3rd, the hardest shot to the dome was landed by shogun. go back and watch it, it was the last right hook shogun threw in the exchange. it was the last punch in the flurry because after it landed, machida’s right knee buckles slightly, and machida IMMEDIATELY clinches up. there is only 1 reason why a man initiating and getting “the best” of a flurry would stop. the only reason machida would stop in that spot is if he got rocked himself, and that’s exactly what happened

Right ON, Amos! And Cage keeps getting work because he’s Francis Ford Copalla’s nephew. (no joke)

Sawn, to be exact, Shogun’s kicks were landing at a rate of 69%. Machida’s punches only connected 21% of the time. As for which landed cleaner and were more effective, just compare Shogun’s unblemished face to Machida’s gangrenous right leg.

I like it how Joe Rogan is the to blame for this all. Because he was just soooo biased, right? He formulated his opinion and laid out the facts throughout the fight. Even if Joe did have an effect on the television audience, that still doesn’t explain why the crowd and Dana White scored it for Shogun. I can’t speak for everyone in the crowd but the majority of what I heard when that decision was read was a bunch of boos. Shogun won that fight and Machida knows it. He may not win in the rematch because Shogun may have exposed a weakness that will not show itself in the next fight but as far as the first one goes, it was Shoguns win. He is the champ in my eyes. Hope the rematch is soon.

jesus christ with the crowd argument, do you know how many different factors contribute to the booing? round 5 being the last impression, shogun the underdog etc

and come on, the crowd cheered machida all the way to the beginning of round 4, so surely by the CROWDS OPINION its machidas?!

stupid argument, the crowd arn’t professional judges

lol hes just trying to get you worked up, ignore him. We know Rua won the fight and so does 99% of everyone who saw it.

Agree he’s trying trolling, disagree 99% of people see it that way.

A good portion of it have it for Machida, there are more people for Shogun though, but there isn’t any consensus on round scores which just goes to show you it was obviously not a clean cut fight.

theboydave – Myself and a friend watched it again the other night (he hadn’t already seen it so I told him not to listen to the commentary!), both of us scored it exactly the same way – 1-3 definitely Machida – that’s the win right for us there, no argument. 4 was close and 5 was Shogun’s.

My friend actually couldn’t believe Rogan’s commentary either – he was like “WTF, Machida just hit Shogun in the face 3 times and all you hear is how excellent Shogun’s counter kick was???”

For those going on about damage, I certainly hope you aren’t the same people who criticized Hardy’s win over Marcus Davis just because he caused more damage as that would be highly hippocritical…. Oh and Machida’s facial damage was mostly cause in a couple of exchanges in the last round, just because Shogun wasn’t cut doesn’t mean he didn’t get hit. I like Shogun btw and look forward to the rematch now he’s looking back to his old self.

You are hilarious. You made a valid point before? I must have missed it. You act like a child, some of the things you say make me believe a mentally underdeveloped child. I’ve seen you say you are 2 different ages because you don’t know which one you are using. You are a young boy and one day you will realize that acting cool or tough(the time you wanted to actually fight that poster who offered it to someone else) on a computer is LAME. I don’t remember how long it has been since you started posting your drivel but next time you want to act cool on the internet try doing it with someone who doesn’t have an I.Q. that is double yours.