Monday morning scrap: UFC 104 and DREAM 12 weekend in review
by Jesse Holland on Oct 26, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
109 comments
Fans of mixed martial arts were once again treated to an action-packed weekend chock full of fights thanks to the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) and DREAM putting forth a bevy of top stars in the heat of battle.
UFC 104: "Machida vs. Shogun" went down from the Staples Center in Los Angeles, Calif., and lit up the Internet message boards with its controversial decision in the night's main event.
Were we witnessing the Machida era? Or the Machida error?
In addition to the light heavyweight brouhaha, rising heavyweight talent Cain Velasquez silenced his critics by obliterating former IFL stud Ben Rothwell despite poor timing -- not poor decision making from referee Steve Mazagatti.
On the heels of Zuffa's latest pay-per-view, HDNet broadcast the DREAM 12 event from the Osaka-Jo Hall in Osaka, Japan, just a few hours later. While much of the talk surrounded "Demolition Can" and his slap-chop inspired guillotine over James Thompson, international superstars Eddie Alvarez and Kazushi Sakuraba were also in action.
In cased you missed any or all of it — or just want to keep the discussion alive — below are links to all the major storylines coming out of both events.
Let’s get to it.
UFC 104: "Machida vs. Shogun"
Main card recap and post-fight thoughts
DREAM 12
Paulo Filho forced to withdraw
Remember that UFC 105 is just around the corer -- along with FieLDS Dynamite!! on New Year's Eve for the Japanese scene. Keep it locked in right here at MMAmania.com for all the coverage you can handle.
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Who else was grinning ear to ear when the eternal saku pulled it off again?
by NameNotRequired on Oct 26, 2009 9:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Machida won RDS 1 and 3.
RD 2 was even.
Shogun won RDS 4 and 5.
RD 2 goes to the champ in case of a tie (Machida).
I can understand why Shogun fans hated the decision. I would be upset, too.
INTROVERT!!!
I won our bet. Man up and start posting OJR is king.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun is King!!!
Man, that sounded gay.
by El Mexicutioner, Formerly The Mexicutioner on Oct 26, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is a link to a picture of the judges scorecards in the Shogun/Machida Robbery:
http://www.mmalinker.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46393
It is very important that Vera beats Couture. Couture winning could set up a Machida/couture TUF season that woud screw over Shogun’s immediate title shot!
by john G on Oct 26, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is very important that Vera beats Couture. Couture winning could set up a Machida/couture TUF season that would screw over Shogun’s immediate title shot!
by john G on Oct 26, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or DW could stop playing the $$$ card and actually have the belts defended on a regular basis.
Too much politics involved when it comes to that overall. Unfortunately, the UFC is no different.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they give Couture a title shot before Shogun I won’t watch it. Screw Captain Paycheck and his unwarranted title shots.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh and johnG. Excellent call on the Machida/Shogun fight. It went exactly as you said it would.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wish they would’ve gone one more round. Whoever takes it wins. Shogun definitely came in with a great strategy, still stalking but much more patient in picking his shots. I thought he was going to get destroyed, but I was pleasantly surprised to see such an even fight.
by Diceman on Oct 26, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHOGUN GOT SCREWED and SHOCKED THE WORLD like I told all you fools that didnt even give him a chance and looked passed him.
SHOGUN=THE REAL LHW CHAMP
MASHIDA=THE PAPER CHAMP
by TaPouT on Oct 26, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you Jay! I was never so sure about a fight in my llife!
by john G on Oct 26, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very close to call…I can see how people thought Shogun won though…Shogun won his rounds more decisively than Machida won his
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe adding 2 additional judges would help in these situations…cause the 10 point scoring system obviously has some probs….1/2 points should be used. For example I thought Shogun won his rounds 10-9 as Machida won his rounds 10-9.5
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what shocked me the most is that it was a UD
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mac, I was watching a boxing match this weekend, can’t remember the fighters, but the 5 judge system doesn’t work there either. I don’t think there is a way to fix the decisions.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your probably right jay…what do ya think about adding 1/2 points?…boring fight anyways. Reminded me of that travesty in Montreal (maybe not that bad)
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a little boring, Machida looked nervous to be defending his belt with such great expectations. Much better than the Montreal debacle though. I was excited when they started mentioning Silva fighting Shogun for the strap. Silva owning both belts sounded great to me. They have to do something about the scoring, like someone said, a guy could eek out 3 close rounds and almost be killed in the fourth and fifth but still win the fight? I don’t know what to do anymore, no one does.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe if the cage got smaller as the rounds go by? lol
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or every 2 minutes a new weapon was thrown into the cage?
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol…seriously though, these guys need to be more motivated in the 4th, 5th rounds…the matchup looked good on paper but wasn’t really a good fight at any point
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s because their corners keep telling them that they’re ahead. I would tell them, it’s too close, get this next one done. Don’t let them settle back. You need that Greg Jackson cornering style – not the Coleman/Baroni one.
by NameNotRequired on Oct 26, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta disagree, I thought it was a very entertaining fight myself. More strategy than anything else. Both guys fought the same gameplan in my opinion. Rua had not other choice but to refrain from striking for fear of playing into Lyoto’s hand. I thought Shogun looked better at the end, however, it was very close and I could see it going either way. So, does DW hold true and schedule this on NYE, or does he bail and have A Silva fight Shogun in the interim?
by slim473 on Oct 26, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny and interesting thing is a breakdown of the fight i saw at HeadKickLegend from a kickboxing standpoint. The guys at that blog said that because there was 0 matwork and even the takedown attempts were lukewarm – if you simply consider them clinching, then under K-1 rules Machida wins or it goes into an extension round as a draw. But stalking aka aggression doesn’t count in kickboxing. Very interesting to read though.
Anyways I had shogun sweeping the last three rounds. with round 1 being close enough to merit a 10-10.
by NameNotRequired on Oct 26, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was like a great movie with a shi*ty ending…I felt like it was all build up and strategy with no defining moment or climax…nothing was proven
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slim-
Gotta have a rematch almost immediately.
On a side note, I am tiring of Rogan’s one sided viewing of fights. Goldy has been mailing it in for awhile now.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though there wasn’t a ton of action or anyone coming close to ending the fight, I definitely wasn’t bored. This is what happens when both guys are trying to win a decision. They both should have poured it on at the ends of every round. I really want to see A. Silva fight Shogun.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OJR agreed. When Shogun kicked Machida in the leg and Lyoto would counter with a nice shot in the gob, Rogan was only going on about the leg kick. I like watching with the volume off much better.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Rogan is a obvious Shogun fan and Goldberg even called him out on it saying that he was only yelling shoguns attacks
by Mylah on Oct 26, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is one time when I hope DW keeps his word and makes this a NYE or late Jan fight. However, he has a problem with running his mouth about fights before they are committed to (re: hendo/silva rematch). They definately should have a rematch, I agree. There is no one else out there to fight Machida right now anyway, so make it happen. They have Silva on the post-NYE fight anyway, I believe.
by slim473 on Oct 26, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong. I CAN SEE WHY SHOGUN FANS WOULD BE MAD, listen to you and you are a machida fan, you should not have even bothered posting if you want to be a non substitive shmuck… 3-2 shogun.
by kredas on Oct 26, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought this fight was amazing. i probably only took like 2 breaths the whole time b/c i was on the edge of my seat. the decision aside…i think it was a great fight with two verrrrrry skilled strikers. i dont think we’ll see this even of a fight in another 10 years.
the good thing is everyone is starting to come around and finally realize that is was CLOSE! in a situation like that where it is that close, it’s not uncommon for the Champ to get the nod. that’s what happend. just b/c is was contraversial doesn’t take anything away from the fight. it was great!
by masters on Oct 26, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought so too.
It was nice to see one of my fav fighters (Machida) get knocked around by a guy who is his equal or better.
Adversity builds character.
I think both will give us a better fight in the rematch and I predict a KO/TKO. No doubt.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
straight up!~ i thought that fight was entertainment to the max!~ i wasn’t bored 1 second of that fight.
by stinky~fingers on Oct 26, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All true. I think most of the smart people were just waiting for the crying stop.
by DolFan on Oct 26, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had Machida winning narrowly, tho what surprised me is the stat tracker had Machida winning rounds 2 & 3. So if you go with what stat tracker says then all he had to do was still one of the other rounds with a flurry.
I do feel bad for Shogun because he put on a great performance. Perhaps this is what’s best for fans because we’ll see them fight next (guaranteed) because there is nobody else for Machida to fight right now.
by kibbled_bits on Oct 26, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shogun’s best performance in the UFC, no doubt.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t feel bad for Shogun. If Shogun had the belt right now he would still be fighting Machida in his next bout. Why would anyone not want a rematch after that fight? I have been a Machida fan since he came into the UFC. Most of us were already Shogun fans from watching Pride. The only real losers here are the Shogun fans that cann’t get over it.
by DolFan on Oct 26, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun will continue to get screwed because the old Shogun is gone. I thought he was suppose to TKO Machida. What happened?
by wAyNe on Oct 26, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Naw, he just busted him up pretty good. Witch of the two had to get stitches again?
by El Mexicutioner, Formerly The Mexicutioner on Oct 26, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have to disclaimer that I do like Shogun. Both as a fighter and a person. However even if you have him taking that decision he hasn’t lived up to the hype. He’s had several opportunities to do so in the UFC. One close decision win (if the judges would have went his way) would not have changed that. Regarding Shogun there are always so many excuses and now there will always be this. Remember he was supposed to dominate this division and destroy all challengers.
by wAyNe on Oct 26, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wayne what happend to Machida being untouchable and knocking out Shogun??? Didn’t really live up to his hype did he!!
by kayo on Oct 26, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even more so with the fact that everyone hated Machida up until two fights ago. Then he finished a couple guys and he wasn’t “running” anymore, he was being “elusive”. All of a sudden a guy that existed mostly on undercards is ushering in a new era. Yes the hype for Machida was just as ridiculous. I think their rematch will be great though. Shogun will be pissed and hungry and I’m sure Machida started to believe his own hype and was woken up a little. They will both be ready.
by wAyNe on Oct 26, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the hype about Machida. He deserved the hype really. He is a great fighter and just had a rough first title defence. It happens, look at GSP’s first title defence, it went far worse than this one.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Machida nuthugger I can say that his hype was over the top. I am glad that Shogun brought it to him and rocked his world. It will make Machida better.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I thought it was Lyoto who was suppose to Knock Shogun TFO and not get hit as the legend states that lyoto’s “invincible” and “untouchable.” Oh, wait, I guess I must’ve wathed a different fight. Side note: The pre-fight Lyoto nuthugging was unbelievable… Wow, 6 – 1 odds…
by lil Pinga on Oct 26, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weekend ramblings.
Still don’t know how all 3 judges gave the fight to Machida, the only solace I can feel in that decision is the idea that to be the champion you have to decisively beat the champion but again Machida should not have won. Like we all know you shouldn’t let it go to the judges.
I still hate Cain but he finally showed me something against Big Ben even though it was stopped early. I still feel that fight was tailor made stylistically for Racist Pride to win. I do not think he will ever be a threat at the Heavy Weight class for the belt, this is not College wrestling and there is a host of guys in the heavy weight devision I do not thing he would beat because Cain is so one dimensional. I don’t ever see him beating guys that are also good wrestlers and ginormous or guys with stellar jujitsu in the heavyweight division that can also strike.
by Edgecrusher71 on Oct 26, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Big Ben was a tough test and well respected HW Cain showed us he should be fighting the best with his dominating performance over Big Ben. I don’t know how you think Big Ben was taylor made for Cain as one of the concerns on Cain was how he would be able to handle a big HW and Big ben is one of the best fighters that weigh over 260 I would love to see him fight Gonzoga who are around the same calibure in my books. I do think your right that he will have trouble with Brock and Carwin because of there size and abilities and you can’t leave NOG or Mir out as well Santos is looking good too. Here are my top HW and I would love to see any of fight each other.
1) Brock – The champion
2) Mir – I know a lot don’t agree but hurt or sick he still has the win over NOG
3) NOG – Looked great against Randy I hope he gets a rematch against Mir to end all doubt one way or another
4) Carwin – No one has got out of the first round with him the most powerfull strike in MMA today I know some think he has not fought anyone but thats garbage look at the suppsoe #1 HW in the world and his first 25 besides NOG the best fighters he has fought are MW and LHW fighters. Carwins ground game might be questioned and against Brock it might be hard to tell how good it is can’t wait to find out. He is the real deal and a great fight against any to ranked fighter a very close distance betwwen 1 and 4.
5) Santos – Great Striker and it would be safe to say a decent ground game with his gym a fight against Cain next would be wicked
6) Cain – His stand up is still a huge question mark a victory over Santos would throw him in the top 5
by Puck Head on Oct 26, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are people so bent out of shape over a tattoo?
I know white guys who have tats of the rebel flag and I don’t give a sh!t as long as they don’t fock with me.
Let it go, man…
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The tattoo talk does have to end. We get it, a bunch of you have a problem with not knowing what it means. Get over it.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no prob with his tat but to be honest Brown pride could be taken any # of ways…lol…just sayin’
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brown Pride = his bowel movements are awesome?
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure OJR! Something like that. In that case I have Brown Pride too!
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tell my girlfriend that my Brown Pride is between my legs.
:)
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah if Brock came in with a tat that said White Pride on his chest that would be cool right?… NOT! The fact is, it is pure tribalism and I am sick of that shit in our society. Brown is not a race or country (which wouldn’t make it right even if it was). Racism and Race supremacy is the same no matter what color you are and yes having a tat of Brown Pride is Race Supremacy it’s like having White Power.
by Edgecrusher71 on Oct 26, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I shall always refer to Cain as the Overrated Racist in the UFC. He can change my mind on the overrated thing though lol.
by Edgecrusher71 on Oct 26, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
stupid, there is a difference between pride and power, brock can go put white pride all over himself if he wants. quit crying over reverse racism poor you, you have it so tough.
by roymachidanutthugger on Oct 26, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, not talking about reverse racism, that is when someone gives you something because of your race. What I am talking about is racism, it is not matter of having it tough it is matter of racism being racism no matter who you are. Brown Pride is a statement of tribalism supremacy no different than White Power because it is the pride or power of one race over another. I the fighting world I get so sick of the talk about having a Mexican champion and so on, who cares, we are all people. I have a friend who routes based on whom ever looks more “American” in his eyes. I guess you people would say that isn’t racist/ a bigot type move because he’s American so he is just having pride right? WRONG!
by Edgecrusher71 on Oct 26, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong there is a difference in pride vs power, i see white pride tattos and brwon pride tattoos all the time. put power on the end of it and there is a diffrence.i know racism is so hard on you white people i don’t know how you stand it.
by roymachidanutthugger on Oct 26, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
after buffer read the judges scores and gave the win to machida, i tattooed ‘brown pride’ in my undies..
by stinky~fingers on Oct 26, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got Sick of Rogan trying to push Cain in our faces after and during his fight. Cain has zero power and average wrestling. Probably top 5 in the UFC, but won’t come close to winning the title.
Brock
Dos Santos
Carwin
Big Country
Mir
Big Nog
I would pick any of these guys to beat him, yes even Big Country when he starts fighting in the UFC.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cain would beat Big Country and Mir. I agree with the rest.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think both of those guys have good enough jits to keep Cain from wanting to take them down, and Cain has shown time and again that he doesn’t have fight ending power in his hands, so I had to throw them in there. I hate Murrr with a passion so it was hard to put him in any list that mentions him being able to beat someone. lol.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Country does not have the endurance to deal with Cain’s motor. Too fat. He would suffer the same defeat as Rothwell.
Mir would not be able to defend the TD’s so I see him on his back and taking pit pat punches until he loses a decision.
BTW I found it hilarious that Rothwell complained about the fight stopping. WTF did he expect? Mazz even warned him before the 2nd round started.
I know everybody hates to lose but eating punches without ANY offense = TKO.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed…then Dana chirps in with “Mazz shouldn’t be a ref.” WTF!?
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One fighter I want to see and hope he doesn’t do anything stupid that has a chance to contend in the top five is Yvel. I see a lot of hate on Mir and I understand why some hate him for his comments outside the ring but in the ring he deserves to be on the top five wether you think he’s and ass or not. By no means is Cains as strong as a wreslter as Brock so I don’t think Mir would have too many problems defending against cain on the ground and could easily pull off a sub.
by Puck Head on Oct 26, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough OJR. I guess those fights could go either way. Your scenarios are more likely though.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although Rothwell isn’t nearly as cut as Lesnar, he did have a significant weight advantage and Cain took him down at will. I don’t see him doing that to Lesnar if they should fight. Lesnar has a bigger base and a wrestling background, but Cain was impressive in handling the add’l weight from Ben. I see a Dos Santos/Cain fight prior to any title shots. I thought it was a given Big Nog fights the winner of the Lesnar/Carwin fight?
by slim473 on Oct 26, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cain would put big country on his back and smash his face with elbows..
have u ever seen a turtle on its back? thats what roy would look like..
by stinky~fingers on Oct 26, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just sick of Rogan period. The guy a terribly biased commentator.
by kibbled_bits on Oct 26, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it has gotten out of hand. I can’t enjoy the matches anymore with the volume on…
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if u turned the volume down u wouldn’t hear the impact of the punches, kicks, slams and grunts..
when i watch cards on tv, i barely listen to the commentaining anyways.. volumes a must!~
by stinky~fingers on Oct 26, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the decision in the Machida-Shogun fight is even a big deal anymore. Neither of the guys would have had a legit opponent to fight besides each other, so if Shogun was awarded the belt it probably would have been a rematch anyway. So a rematch was probably a given no matter who won that decision.
by jay on Oct 26, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jesse- I love that one! At the end of the fight Joe Rogan should have said “Welcome to the Machida error” Awesome!
by ducknow on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UFC 104- the first fixed fight. Can you say Boxing?
by Carl on Oct 26, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You need to read the comments before you post
by Mylah on Oct 26, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wins the rematch and when do they do it? Jan, Feb, March?
by kibbled_bits on Oct 26, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OJR is King. Even though I believe Shogun should be the new champ…a bet is a bet.
As far as the decision goes…I think that it can all be chalked up to the fact that the scoring system used for American MMA is not the proper system for the sport. When judges give someone a 10-9 round simply because the fighter got in 1 or 2 more strikes than the other opponent (given the striking stats on this fight, if they scored 10-9 for Lyoto then 1 or 2 more strikes is all he did to win the rounds)….it is not a proper way to score.
Some fans are under the impression that a “ten point scoring system” means that one fighter gets 10 points and the other 9 or less…this is not true. A judge CAN score a round 10-10 if they feel that the round was even…this is what judges should be doing more of, IMO.
Some of you guys know that I love K-1. One of the best things about K-1 is that judges will score a round a “draw” if there is no clear-cut winner. This happens in K-1 all of the time. In fact, if there is a fairly even round…judges scoring for one fighter over the other would be considered an anomaly. This is what American MMA judges should be doing!!!!
Look no further than the Bisping/Hammill fight. Hammill did 10x more damage in round one than Bisping did for the rest of the fight, but Bisping gets the decision because he out-pointed Hammill with a couple more strikes in each of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. If judges were to use the “draw” (10-10) option that they have, Hammill would have won that fight…..
10-9, 10-10, 10-10.
Anyway, this isn’t “stupid ‘boxing’ judging”, or a “conspiracy”, or anything like that…it’s the result of the American MMA product not using the “draw” option enough when scoring fights (seriosuly….American MMA judges NEVER use it). There are no perfect scoring systems, but when judges say to themselves “neither fighter did enough to win that round” and score the round a draw….eventually you end up with the correct result.
JMHO
Congrats on your victory, OJR
by introvert on Oct 26, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You gonna admit that you actually lost this bet?…or are you gonna take a cheap win?
by introvert on Oct 26, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing cheap about it. See my scorecard above. I stand behind it.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw it…it makes zero sense.
You’re basing the fight result on…“in case of a tie the round goes to the champ”….wtf is that? Did you get that out of the MMA rulebook? That’s a farce.
See my post above….a tied round is exactly that, a tied round…10-10.
I’ll give you the win based on the result of the judges decision, but you are talking out of your ass on the way your coming up with your justification for terrible judging.
by introvert on Oct 26, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro has a point but a win is a win..change that name!!! ;)
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think McArthur has the solution….I’ll change my name for a month.
Deal?
by OJR Is King on Oct 26, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro should change his too…but at least give him a double or nothing on the next event…a month is bit long
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds good, Intro. Just change your name.
Thanks, Mac.
by OJR on Oct 26, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All these comments about Rogan being on Machidas nuts is ridiculous! Shogun was hitting him with the harder and more affective shots and pretty much blocked and countered all of Machidas shots. The flurries were just that snow flakes that hit Shoguns arms and he always had an answer for them. Look Dana White said he thought he won every fighter on that card thought he won all the MMA websites had him winning the crowd and all the fighters who are on twitter said he got screwed. Only people who thought Machida won are the people who can finally say they took a karate class when they were younger and finally look somewhat cool.
by kayo on Oct 26, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have stated in the past (about the Griffin/Ortiz fight) that Rogan does tend to lean a little too much in favour of one fighter over the other. I don’t really see the case for that in the Machida/Rua fight though. The difference being that in this fight Rua was the more agrressive fighter, and of course the more aggressive will be spoken about more during commentary. On the other hand, the Griffin/Ortiz fight…Rogan was screaming at the top of his lungs how great Forrest was doing when Forrest was simply “surviving” Tito’s aggressiveness…hell, Forrest got GnP’d to the point that the ref could have stopped the fight and nobody would have argued the stoppage…then swepped Tito and got up…Rogan was having an orgasm for the fact that Forrest got up!!!!
Anyway…
Rogan during Tito/Forrest = Terribly biased.
Rogan during Machida/Rua = Not biased.
by introvert on Oct 26, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed…I enjoy the Rogan/Goldie pairing but do think a third guy is needed. Kenny’s not too bad but Randy was always much better.
by McArthur on Oct 26, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny’s pretty good…I agree.
by OJR Is King (formerly Introvert) on Oct 26, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also let’s say Dana White wanted this fight resolved as soon as possible and wanted to throw it on the ufc 105 card. The only fighter out of the 2 that would actually be ready and healthy enough to fight would be Shogun who suffered little damage. Machida will probably still have a little red in his urine by then (hmm wonder if he will still drink it) and limping around.
by kayo on Oct 26, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much sums up who won that fight, doesn’t it?
by OJR Is King (formerly Introvert) on Oct 26, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m really getting sick of these articles and those who have been writing them. “The Machida error”? “light heavyweight brouhaha”? Controversial is not a correct statement. It was an extremely close fight in every aspect of the mma game but rewatch the fight. rounds 1-3 were all lyoto. 4 and 5 were shogun with the 5th round being the most dominating round of the fight. so what? shogun lost 3 rounds. He even said in an interview that he believed he won rounds 3-5. Round 3 was clearly Machidas. Its just disheartning that we boo our fighters and make a close called decision into some kind of controversy. writers like Jesse Holland are just adding to this supposed controversy. Roe Rogan and Mike Goldberg were extremely biased throughout the whole fight to where It didnt add up to what I was watching. I don’t ussually post but I’m getting tired of people jumping on a bandwagon and then spitting on their name as soon as they don’t have an overly impressive win.
by joel on Oct 26, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You’re in the minority.
Agree to disagree, but you’re in the minority.
by OJR Is King (formerly Introvert) on Oct 26, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it seems to be the minority that counts (judges as well) but I will agree with you in the fact that if it wasnt scored the way it is in the states shogun would have probably won by the more damage dealt. Round 5 was the only dominant round in the fight. but this is the scoring system that the UFC uses. watch it again.
by joel on Oct 26, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. I also had 1-3 for Chida. It was extremely close and could have gone either way. When I watched live in a bar there was no sound. When I re-watched it yesterday, I was really suprised how Rogan was all over Shogun’s jock. Chida is stil my fav LHW and I will continue to pick him for the win every time.
by Cole on Oct 26, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
enough with Machida/Shogun….anyone think Mazz would have stopped Sakuraba’s fight while he was working for the kneebar? You know the Japanese ref wasn’t going to step in. Mad props to Saku for pulling that out! I was afraid it was going to be another Manhoef or Arona situation.
by schnetzler on Oct 26, 2009 2:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ive never liked shogun and always thought he should drop down to 185. but i gave him 3 rounds. but round 1 could have gone either way. that said the fight was really close. a lot closer that joe rogan’s commentating would have you believe. he was on shoguns nuts the whole fight.
by COR on Oct 26, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think Rogan had money on Shogun or is he just gay for him.
by DolFan on Oct 26, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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