just as good, yes but leg kicks are much easier to land.

Lol, that doesn’t mean you won’t get knocked the fuck out going for one………

They aren’t really easier to land I find, plus if your leg kicks become predictable they are easy to counter.

“the machine cannot add in octagon control and aggression, which are also a part of the judging criteria”

but shogun owned both of these aspects.. he was more aggressive and had control of the octagon.. so that means he owned shots, and control/aggression.. howd he lose again? shogun = robbbed

I agree. I’m past the part of arguing, looking forward to the next fight, but if you add control/agression, Shogun won that part of the judging too. By rounds 4 & 5 I personally thought Shogun was no longer worried about Machida’s offense and began to become even more aggressive attacking him in a fashion that resembled more of his Pride days…not as wild, but it looked like he was becoming more comfortable.

I like Shogun a lot but I am a fan of Machida’s. With that said, even though Machida retained his belt I feel like he really did lose. Shogun did just enough to be awarded a decision win in my opinion. I hate to have said that but it’s the truth. I agree with DW in that the rematch should be much more intense with both fighters looking to win decisively. I hop this happens as soon asap.

Congratulations Shogun

Five Ounces had 50-45 Rua i read, possibly 49-46

ED SOARES STRIKES AGAIN, this guy is the Pete Rose of UFC

LOL, damn right Alpha; :)

cecil peoples is behind soooo many bad calls it’s amazing that he still has a job!! or he is well paid to f**k sh*t up big time..

I keep saying that!!!!!!!

lol bet you said the same garbage after Forrest vs Rampage and Bisping vs Hamil???

No the judge’s don’t always know best, that’s why it’s called ROBBERY; great that Machida has fans, but look at the stats, he got BEATEN 2 to 1 for every strike thrown. He knows in his heart he didn’t win that fight, he’s not the true champion; only on paper. To quote Mr. T: “Paper Champion”.

AND I can’t believe this garbage about having to WIN the fight decisively after all the damn DECISIONS Machida’s made us sit through in his career. Now you wanna sit here and talk about people having to finish him off to take the belt, but it’s fine and dandy when he wins a decision and out points his opponent. Right…

I was rooting for Machida. I figured the decision could have gone either way. All in all though it still was to close of a fight to not go to the champ. I know that is old school boxing mentality that you have to beat the champ to be the champ but in this case I think it stands. Neither one of them we willing to really commit to ending the fight. Neither one of them really had a sensational showing. Machida ever figured out Rua’s timing and Rua kicked Machida’s lead leg for 25 minutes. Not exactly a championship performance by either. Although I will say Rua starting to look like the Rua of Pride. I think Kevin Iole from Yahoo Sports said it best. The only person to blame here is Rua for letting it go to the judges. Rua’s words exactly “I feel I was able to use my strategy well in the fight to do a good fight," Rua said. "My corner was telling me I was winning the fight and that is why I didn’t press the action so much in the final rounds. I felt I was winning.” He was in championship fight and decided not go in and try to finish the fight. He was content with eeking out a decision victory. That is not the way a championship fight should be fought, imo. You should be fighting to finish the fight. You don’t have to get sloppy and risk loosing/getting ko’d but you could go for the win. EVery fighter says it all the time “you can’t let the fight go to the judges…”

Why should Rua have tried to finish the fight when he was clearly winning? That would have gone against his whole gameplan, which was what had given him the advantage in the first place. Shogun fought smart and these numbers prove that he outstruck Machida, all of that would have been for nothing if he had have been overaggressive and got counterpunched and KO’d by Lyoto, which is what happened to the other fighters that rushed into Lyoto like that. Balls to the boxing mentality, it sucks in boxing and it sucks in MMA, the winner of the decision is the fighter who wins the most rounds, champion or not.

I’m a Machida fan and called a brutal beatdown as soon as this fight was rumoured but I’m prepared to eat humble pie and accept that Lyoto lost this fight, as a fan of his I’m happy that he’s got another chance to beat Shogun decisively and fairly, as a fan of MMA I’m gutted for Shogun and that there’s been a decision as bad as this so soon after the Super 6 scandal otherwise known as Froch-Dirrell.

Great fight, the rematch should be eagerly anticiapted, though it looks like the fan backlash is going to be even worse than Bisping-Hamill and I dread the number of comments that this poor decision is going to lead to over the next few months.

Hands down this was the most disturbing decision I have ever witnessed.

Considering the magnitude of the fight it is shocking that this could happen. 5 rounds and I had Shogun winning all of them. God only knows what the judges saw. I was the only person round my house that thought Shogun would win before the fight and after the fight we all clearly had Shogun winning the fight.

This literally sickened me to my stomach to see Shogun not get the decision considering what an ass kicking Shogun put on supposedly unbeatable Machida.

I understand what u are saying Dave and I am not saying that he should have rushed in and got KO’d, yet I think he could have still done more to make it la more decisive win. Neither fighter really commited to anything in this fight. I think it was still to close to give the belt away. MAchida scored more to the head and body and Rua scored the majoity of his points with leg kicks. I said below that when Rampage lost to Forrest everyone was upset because he lost over leg kicks and nothing else. This is the same scenario. I also thought Machida was going to school Rua. I conceed to the fact that Rua made me swallow a giant piece of humble pie, but I think the both could have commited to more action….

Hold up Ca$Z! I have been telling anyone that would listen that Shogun was going to win this fight for the past 4 months! YOu wont find a biiger shogun supporter then me around here. He fought like a genius last night, and I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN! Any idea how much money that BS decision cost me?

How could anyone be upset about that Griffin/Rampage decision, Griffin made him look like a fool that fight and deserved the win, not Rampage. So your practically saying Rua won, but hugging on Machida’s nuts for no reason?

shogun made machida look like a fool last night, machida was counter striking and losing, shogun beat machida at his own game, PATIENCE, as a huge mma fan im a little bit heart-broken for shogun’s loss. shogun is the king with no crown, same thing in pride. guy cant get a break

john you did call this fight to a T. Bullshite scoring but the rematch is going to be Epic. I can’t believe how much talent shogun is slowly getting back.

unfortunately, Machida now has a long time to study what Shogun did right and what he did wrong. He’ll have a much better grasp on Shogun’s distance and timing in a rematch. I think what they said in press conference will tell the tale. Machida will come back better and Shogun will bring the same gameplan. I totally think Shogun pulled off the upset tonight and deserves to be champ. I doubt he can do it twice, though, and that’s what makes this decision all the more tragic and unjust! I think Shogun should spend a lot of time working with GSP on TDs before the rematch because that’s where Machida is more likely to underestimate him next time.

It is funny how machida dick riders are saying things like,
if you wanna be the champion you gott ko the champ.

guess what machida doesnt really knock people out.
he knocked out rashad well his mouth was wide open and he was talking.
machida is known for being a puss and backing up not going forward/

Thank you Jay… There was relly no doubt in my mind and I did call iit to a T, but I did expect more jits. I lost a ton on shogun but even worse is that I feel really sad for him. NOt to many fighters could beat the shogun that stepped into the Octagon last night. Machida didnt. IMO Shogun is the champion RIGHT now and Machida is the one g etting an immediate rematch!

Well said, I know that i don’t post as much as you do but I called shogun for the win from the time the match was announced.

But if Shogun won, then Machida lost.

So you can lose but should be allowed to keep a title?

What criteria are we using here.

Effective striking.

Out struck Machida 2-1 the stats are right up there.

Grappling

Went for take downs, went for the clinch, pressed him up against the cage and was using knees. Machida only defended.

Aggression.

Pressed the action much more.

And Octagon control.

Forced Machida to back up the majority of the time.

He also did the most damage. Machida had to change his stance because of punishment he had taken to his legs and ribs. And his lip was busted.

It was plenty convincing. It was also bad judging.

Yea I have a hard time finding which area of the fight Machida was winning; and what they were even looking at. He was being chopped down with the body/leg kicks, he was defending TD’s yes, but do you get points for defending a take down?? Shogun visibly did more damage to him, out struck him, controlled the pace of the action, was the aggressor and maintained control of the center of the Octagon throughout the entirety of the fight. So on which of these judging criteria did Machida score points???

donkeyballs is silly, by his logic shogun couldntve even won by submission.

One of the things I am having a hard time grasping here is that people are cool with the belt changing hands on leg kicks? Machida had more shots to the head and body while Shogun scored mainly on leg kicks. Yeah they are effective at slowing down a fighter but in a fight as close as this was,and in a champioship fight-I am not sure if the title should change hands over leg kicks. I am not minimizing them but this is the same gripe that everybody had when Forrest won the belt. Rampage did knock Forrest down in one of the rounds, but people freaked that Forrest won because he leg kicked him for 5 rounds. Why does that not apply here? Because Shogun is an underground favorite? AS I recall that decision left a bad taste in most peoples mouth. A lot of people said back then that Forrest should not have won the belt based on his performance. This is no different. I don’t understand how people flip flop depending on who the fighter is on how they would score a fight. It was relevant then and in that fight, but no way here and now, Shogun was robbed, but Rampage was robbed. I have heard so many people say this was one of the worse decsions since the Rampage/Forrest fight. Yet the reason that it was such a horrible decision (Forrest didn’t do anything but leg kicks) doesn’t apply here?

Donkeyballs is such an obvious troll.

Only a complete imbecilic, retarded, braindead total moron would have Machida winning that fight!!

Da Monkey:

I totally agree. I remember all the posts after Page v Forrest about how Page got robbed and leg kicks shouldnt win you a belt and to be the champ you need to decisively beat the champ and blah blah blah. Now we’ve got quite a few folks screaming just the opposite. Personally, a belt should NOT change hands over leg kicks. They’re much easier to land than any other strike aimed at the waist up. If the sport starts regularly letting belts change hands over leg kicks then we can all expect a huge strategy change for most title challengers that’ll have us fans yawning instead of sitting on the edge of our seats.

but despite that I do feel that due to the damage inflicted overall, Shogun should have won the decision. I’m torn by saying that because I’m a Machida fan.

You guys seem to be forgetting the fact that Shogun also landed MORE HEAD SHOTS than Machida!!! It looked like Machida was hitting the head more, but Shogun was blocking almost all of those. Machida only landed 21% of those attempted head shots, and very few of them had any real power. Overall, Shogun landed 55% of his strikes against “the least hit fighter in MMA history” and avoided 60% of strikes by “the second most accurate striker in MMA history.” Shogun completely beat Machida at every aspect of his own game.

Shonuff I agree with all of you. I am just trying to understand why it is ok in the scenario. Body and head which are usually what finish fights MAchida out scored him by 8. Rua had 3 more head shots and MAchida had 24 to the body vs Ruas 16. I mean if you go by shear numbers yeah Rua won. What I am saying is that the complaint were rampant when Forrest won this way. Nobody seems to remember that. If you think the belt should change or people should win fights on leg kicks then MMA is going to get real ugly. I would understand if MAchida did absolutely nothing in the fight, and hea really did not do much, but neither did Rua. Noone really fought like they were fighting for the title. Didn’t everyone make fun of Anderson for Punching and front kicking LEites? Hey bet they are strikes, they count! So by everyones here rational Anderson fought a perfect and awesome Championship fight, GRiffen truly beat Rampage. Like I said MAchida did not deserve the title (the win, maybe I am better saying) last night and was completely exposed but on that same token Rua really did not perform like a champ either. I personally would have given that a draw. The whole fight imo looked like a feeling out process. You hate to see any guy loose in that situation but you hate to see any one get the W in that scenario as well. I think people just need to be a little more rational. Neither fighter was ever in trouble and neither fighter was willing to comitt to ending the fight or really pushing the UD win. They never really closed out the rounds strong, and overall looked like a full contact sparring session.

Shonuff by the way I always enjoy reading your posts and along with NNR amd John G. and a few others I enjoy coming back here and posting over and over again thanks for always given a good opinion…

he’s just trolling don’t keep feeding into his bullshit.

I’m the exact same. Won some money on lyoto by decision. But still totally unhappy about that call.

My concern about a rematch would be that now rua will possibly need to be trying for the KO, not the was to fight machida. That;s how you get countered and beaten, like all of machida’s opponents.

Rua had a brilliant gameplan, and excellent rhythm when moving, machida just couldn’t get his timing. But not sure if that could be repeated in the rematch.

I don’t get all this to be the champ beat the champ stuff. By the end machida was lookin pretty beat to me! He looked totally defeated and when interviewed he didn’t exactly sound like the victor did he?

when did machida “wobble” shogun ?
never if anything shogun wobbled machida.

Yea Machida was pretty beat up by the end. Shogun looked damn near untouched. I watched the fight again and again i found it 4 rounds to 1. Look back sean for the wobbled shogun and let me know what round your saying it was in. I watched it twice now and somehow missed it both times. Close fight but shogun edged out most rounds by doing more.