agreed!

He is stupid for trying to make it in the UFC so early. Like NNR said, he just isnt ready!

John, just read your reply. I just saw that they got zenko at +300 at bodog so i think i’ll jump on that with a straight bet. And now that i think about it especially about how good Yoshida is a catching subs during transitions from the clinch. I’ll just forget about schafer line and go with him. I think you should consider doing the same.

What should spring board you into the UFC? A loss to Jake Shields like Paul Daly? How about a WWE Summer Slam title like Brock Lesnar? Maybe a couple of backyard youtube clips like Kimbo?

Daley got signed up because he’s British and was available after the collapse of Affliction, Brock and Kimbo got signed up as they are proven draws. Semtex and Lesnar have done enough to justify their contracts, Kimbo is still TUF level and unless he is matched up against strikers or nobodies he won’t do anything in the UFC.

As for Rolles I don’t know much about him and would rather see Roger compete in MMA, shame that he’s not too keen on a career in this sport as he could do big things with his quality BJJ and has been signed up by SF but as of yet not used. Rolles may struggle at this point as there are huge HWs with KO power and quality wrestling though he should be able to beat the likes of Al-Turk, who clearly isn’t good enough for the UFC.

Also Paul daley came in with a two fight win streak. Kimbo and Lesnar draw ratings and HW division wasn’t the most shark infested when Lesnar came in. Rolles has nothing except for the last name. He’s 3-0 against opposition that really werent equipped to deal with his BJJ. Yes his BJJ is probly better than 99% of the guys at HW but he hasn’t shown any type of hands or power or devastating takedown or clinch game. Let the man develop a little goddamnit.

Let the man develop a little? The champion in his division only has 5 fights on his record.

Lol don;t you think it’s kinda a joke when your champion has 5 fights. I mean have you ever seen a boxing champion with 5 fights? I swear the UFC really doesn’t conduct itself like a legitimate sporting organization in the slightest.

BJ and Randy got title shots after 4 fights, if you want to bash the UFC for giving inexperienced fighters title shots then don’t just use Lesnar as an example. Besides the title fight was a part of a mini tournament to find an undisputed champion, Brock had to beat Randy and Mir to become the HW champion and beat the same guy that Nog did to get an interim title shot only in much more dominant fashion.

No complaints from me for Brock getting a title fight and I’d rather see someone with a big name get proper fights immediately than fight 20 cans to pad his record like most boxers do, that way we get to see whether they can sink or swim before hyping up fighters and the fans get to see more meaningful and competetive fights.

I prefer complete fighters with fully developed skillsets battling it out instead of outgunned talented newbies being forced to sink or swim against seasoned/name fighters. Let these kids get good hands, get good wrestling, workout their style of clinch fighting etc… Remember just because “well rounded” is listed as an attribute, it doesn’t mean the ufc is full of sh!t. That’s why we rarely see Cerrone-Hendo and Big Nog-Couture type battles where it’s fought everywhere with brilliant technical displays in all areas. It usually ends up being about attrition/stand and bang which are both fn worthless if you wanna get to and stay at the top.

NNR: I am very close to laying money on Zenko. I also think he has more value then Shaefer. I like Shaefer, but I worry about him. He got pounded out by Bisping who has a hard time finishing middleweights. Bader is a powerful dude. Of course I wont bet Bader because the odds are insane and I question how his submission defense is because his camp is a olt of wrestlers who have a track record of getting caught in subs like CB. Basically I think Zenko has a better shot at an upset. After what happened with K os, he wont stand with Rumble…and I dont know that Rumble can survive 15 minutes in Zenko’s world of clinches and submission.

Yea after thinking about it, i was going with schafer simply coz the lines were way off instead of the actual matchup. Definitely Zenko now man. Maybe even parlay it with a Tibau pick. Also what do you think about the razak-kingsbury fight? I am thinking Razak upset. Lines are good at a couple places.

NNR: havent seen Razak, other then when Cantwell snapped his arm of, so I gotta defer to you on that one. YOU TELL ME!!!

I like Tibau alot, but I question how he will deal with a Nasty, and aggresive fighter like Neer. I think Tibau’s onlly hope is to try and use his size and put Neer on his back for 3 rounds. I had big hopes for Tibau but he has been disapointing me! recently. Im really afraid to bet this fight…talk to me about this match up NNR!

I bet ZENKO!

I agree that sonnen has false value. I see the match up the same way as you. Sonnen with supperior wrestling but Okami’s brute strength will be too much. aso Okami is a very good grappler and impossible to submit…I see Okami spending most of the time oon top, and thhat will make Sonnen, USELESS! Bet Okami!

I see Joe Daddy winning a decision. Out of the two fighters I like Spencer more, but Joe now has Jackson in his corner, and I think he will fight smart which in this case is NOT STANDING with Fisher, and turning it into a grappling . Spencer is under rated on the ground, but thats going to be JOe Daddy’s world and I can see him controling Spencer to a decision win

NNR: I dont know what to make of the Rothwell/Cain fight. On paper, this is Cain’s fight but it could easily materialize into something different. Rothwell isnt the most skilled fighter but he is one Big, tough SOB! Rothwell went toe to toe with DRE for almost 3 rounds, and Cain hasnt really shown much 1 punch KO abililty, so I think it will be hard for Cain to put him away. I also have a hard time betting against Rothwell because this fight really means the WORLD TO HIM! I know Rothwell isnt the best wrestler but he comes from a camp that specializes in that aspect of mma, so he wont be a fish oout of water when its time to defend a takedown. Rothwell has been fighting for ever. Cain is far from a finished product that is projected to be special! This iis a tough fight for me to call…yOur thoughts?

forrest does…. and he keeps ALLLLLLL that power too….

I’m worried a bit less about his power, than his ability to deal with any difference in hand speed a weight class lower. Is there a Gracie that has decent boxing or kick boxing? If not he’s going to be ripped apart……

I think it was Ryan maybe who was a pretty good boxer in PRIDE and actually prefered to stand and trade rather than go to the ground.

True Ryan wasn’t bad, but pretty far from good. He’d have to come along ways to run in the UFC now. Next ignorant question, do any Gracie’s train at an other schools? Be interesting to see how Rolle or Roger would do coming out of Team Minatauro, Black house, Xtreme Cotoure or a HTC Facility…

I wonder if they drive a Rolles Royce, hahaha

lol you really need to stop talking about them, cogito. I never even really noticed them don’t you think it’s sort of strange that you talked about them in like every post?

He is signed with them but there is a reason why he hasn’t fought and has backed/refused a couple bouts. He has said in many interviews that he doesn’t find MMA the slightest bit interesting.

It’s a shame that Roger isn’t interested in MMA because with his BJJ base he could give a lot of top HWs fits, even Fedor if he could get him to the ground quickly enough. As I’ve said in the ADCC thread it was silly of SF to sign someone with little interest in MMA, no matter how good he is in BJJ.

Keep telling yourself that intro we all know the #1 belt in MMA is held by the UFC champions anything else is meaningless. We won’t see your man fight a top five for at least three more fights it’s been a long time for him beating anyone regarded as a top five but he has a fools following paying him big fat checks for much easier fights I will give him and M1 credit for being able to hype up some of the most lopsided fights in MMA history! What does the #1 ranked fighter get out of fighting the #10 HW fighter in the world and what does that prove? Boxing has been getting critisized for the best boxers fighting much lower ranked opponents and M1 and Fedor are following there path.

Fedor is the best HW in the world but he is more bothered about making money than a legacy, that’s his choice but it puts me off supporting him. He’d beat the majority of HWs with ease though I’d have liked to have seen him sign with the UFC to see how he could cope with a monster like Brock or a LHW as talented as Andy or Lyoto. Even Vitor would have been an interesting fight in Affliction if Atencio hadn’t have let down the fans by giving up and cancelling the show.

As for p4p, I consider that as a list of the best fighters at the moment, not the past. Fedor in his prime destroying everyone in Pride was the best fighter of all time, if Andy can retire undefeated as MW champion with wins at LHW or HW then I’d consider him to be the best of all time and if Machida can go on to be an undefeated LHW champion and fight and win at HW then he’ll be the greatest of all time. GSP also looks like he could go on to be an all-time great as long as he continues to smash WWs and makes the move up to MW.

These guys continue to test themselves against the best, Fedor doesn’t so won’t ever build on his past achievements and could end up finding them surpassed by Andy, Lyoto or GSP. Chances are he’ll go down as one of the greatest of all time and as the best ever HW but he’s not doing himself any favours by not fighting in the UFC, as the occasional fight with a top ten HW won’t be anywhere close to his achievements on Pride, while the other 3 fighters mentioned have the potential to go on and do great things.

Rogers is about #6.

…and he has as much credentials os Shane Carwin does.

What does that tell you about your UFC HW division?

No he’s not Carwin is a step ahead intro with out a doubt I know the AA fight pushed him up to 9 but really it didn’t prove anything more than when Serra KO GSP. Carwin on the other hand has fought all around better fighters than Rogers and actually has a back ground in wrestling so you know his ground game is decent might not be the best but it’s safe to say it’s above Rogers.

who has carwin fought thats better? gabe his only top win was against cro cop who is not the same fighter he once was so rogers has better creds even if carwin may be better he hasn’t proved it yet.

heres a nice article on brock vs fedor
http://christan69.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/brock-lesnar-is-way-over-rated-fedor-is-the-real-deal-carwin-will-win-against-brock/

Brett Rogers better be ranked higher than CAPTAIN OPPURTUNITY. Shane Carwin is about to get his face rearranged.

Look at every ranking board they all have Carwin rated higher based on common sense. No one thinks it’s a fluke on any of Carwins wins and even though him and Rogers only have one good fight to base their abilities at least Carwin has shown in that fight the ability to get up on one of the best HW JJ fighters were rogers has only showed us his striking ability against a fighter that is known for having a glass chin? If Rogers shows any type of ground game against Fedor then you might be right. I know I would love to see him and Carwin go at it as they are two of the most powerful strikers in MMA today and a stand up fight would be interesting I just believe Carwin would be smart enought to take it to the ground and wear down the big man before GnP to submission.

LOL christan69 LOL “way over rated” that is the most ignorant BS I heard I can pull many stories talking about how brock would crush Fedor but that doesn’t prove anything thats just pure ignorant.

LOL true that Puck. Like I said fedor is a great fighter with out a doubt but between Rogers and Carwin carwin would give Fedor a bigger challenge. Neither of these guys could beat Brock but there is little doubt Carwin would put up a better fight against the big man both him and Rogers have the KO power but on the ground Rogers would not last two minutes against Brock.

Grim and Carwin deserve as much credit as each other and both will be tough fights for Fedor and Brock respectively. No need to bash any of these 4, they all deserve their spot in the main event of SF and UFC cards respectively.

Most of the Fedor bashers either take Dana White’s views too seriously, have never seen him fight or can’t get over the fact that he signed with SF instead of the UFC.

On the other hand the Brock bashers can’t overlook his WWE career and would find someway to dismiss him as a legitimate champion even if he clears out the UFC HW division or beats Fedor, as these hardcore MMA fans can’t get over the fact that he’s MMAs biggest ever draw and that a pro wrestler has gone on to be an MMA champion, despite some of these fans having great respect for pre-Affliction Barnett, pre-TUF Shamrock, Sakaraba and Severn, all of whom are former pro wrestlers.

These fans all seem to like to bash the opponents of Brock and Fedor no matter who they are and it’s getting pretty tiresome. At least give Carwin and Grim a chance to prove themselves as worthy challenges to Brock and Fedor and give the top 2 HWs respect for their accomplishments instead of taking petty snipes at them over the internet.

Well said David I agree. I find myself becoming a basher every once in awhile mainly by debating who the best is and your right both Carwin and Rogers are great fighters yet we bash them because they are not the best right now and try and bring them down based on who we think is the best the main reason I became a huge MMA fan is because of the great battles in MMA especially the Wandy battles and even though he lost some those fights I can still remember fairly accuratly I found myself going out of my way to make sure I caught his next battle who cares who the best fighter is anyway what is the greatest fights you have seen the last year?