UFC Quick Quote: 'Rampage' Jackson feels threatened by Rashad Evans

Yeah, I do not like Rashad and I think either has a good chance at winning this fight because both have 1 punch knockout but I have to give to Rashad, he is right about Rampage being real 1 dimensional lately.

While I do think that Rashad is right about Rampage becoming more one dimensional, I still think Rampage takes this one. What’s funny is that since Rashad knocked Chuck’s block off he’s been falling in love with the hands too. Conventional wisdom would say that you DON’T want to stay on the outside and dance around with Machida. That’s exactly what he did. Just like Rampage I haven’t seen him use his wrestling in a while either. It doesn’t matter, Rashad isn’t taking Rampage down, and on the feet Rampage is the superior fighter. Actually Rampage is the superior fighter period. Rashad is the poor man’s Rampage.

Rampage is a much better standup fighter and that will be the deciding factor in this fight, his defensive skill and how he uses that to counter is something that Rashad won’t be able to deal with, he’ll be extremely tentative! I’d also like to add that if Rampage wants to take Rashad down he will, and Rashad won’t be able to take Rampage down that’s for sure!

what im getting tired about is also talking about how always fighting in the standup will make it easier for your opponents to figure you out, all i have to say to those people is that if you are the best at something you can’t be stopped!.. unless there’s a huge lucky punch that lands which could happen but if your defense is as tight as Rampages’ is, then that’s highly unlikely..

this is being brought up all the time ever since Chuck Liddell started getting KO’d, and why Chuck got KO’d and started losing fights is simple, his skill and technique wasn’t there..

I think Rampage is going to let his emotions get to him in this fight. Not a fan of Rashad, however, if he can mix it up and take Page down a few times, I favor Rashad. For some reason, Rampage gets worked up over this guy (not that I can blame him, Rashad is a douche), but I think he may come in swinging for the fences and get caught.

Rampage needs a better gameplan against the leg kicks if he wants to keep it standing his stance is no good for avoiding the leg kick were Chuck for example stance was great for avoiding the kicks.

I believe his best plan would be to go for the takedown like a lot of fighters do to counter the kick and get a little GnP in and as soon as he doesn’t like the position he’s in stand back up wich for him would hopefully cause his opponent to throw less kicks. He needs something his opponents are to prepared for his style now he needs to change something up.

Agreed that Rampage needs to become better rounded.

Stop training with Bisping, he is a moron.

Find a good camp. Train with a better camp. I bet Georges would trade Rashad for Rampage.

HA ill bet not

Rampage need to get out of Wolf’s Lair gym because it heavily relies on stand ups while lacking ground game and Greg Jackson’s camp is all around and more balanced than Wolf’s Lair. Rampage got some ground game after seeing him fought Hendo but that was long ago but him training in Wolf’s Lair can wear off his ground game edge. never know that Rashad may plan to take him down and pound him something that Rampage may not be well prepared for it.

Yeah, Rampage is getting real cocky lately with his opposing fighters if they do any trash talking in the least. I don’t like Rampage’s camp, on the other hand Rashad is coming back from a KO. Anytime someone is coming back from a KO’ I think they lose a little bit of their edge for the next fight. Rampage by split decision.

Man i was gonna make a comment in the King Mo post bashing Rampage for changing into a one dimensional fighter but didn’t bother coz i figured everyone would jump on me. But now that it’s out in the open, i am surprised at how many people seem to agree with that sentiment. Bumpage will get exposed soon enough. Everything that Mo and Evans are sayin about him appear to be true especially about his played out and repetitive jokes.

Good interview,he need to stay at ExtremeCouture though!

He didn’t look bad in that fight. Machida is a beast. And what would your strategy be against a counter striker?

rashad looked terrible in that fight are u kidding me…..and your obviously not going to beat sum1 if you throw 3 punches in 3 rounds

My stategy would be not to strike…..lol :D

he should have tried to take him down . . . at least once . . . especially when he couldnt establish any striking. that would have been better than eating kicks.

He looked fine until he got caught. And if Rashad threw 3 punches Machida threw 2 and won.

Agreed JG, Rashad came in with no gameplan whatsoever; he just circled and waited, didn’t try to set up a shot, didn’t try to mount any offense AT ALL. I’m not sold on Machida; I don’t think it was him that made Rashad look bad, I think thats only half of it, the other half was Rashad Evans beating himself in that fight. Tito Ortiz faired better than Evans did..

You should check the fights DSmith, Rashad only landed like 4 or 5 strikes and Machida landed so many more.

I meant check the fight stats

I’m a big Rashad fan and he got worked over in that fight…you could tell right from the start of the fight that he looked uncomfortable out there. It’s one of those things where a loss like that will either cause you spiral downwards or regroup and refocus and rededicate yourself. I think he’s the latter with the camp he is in. There’s no shame in losing to a fighter like Machida and I’m sure it’s a least a little bit of a relief to get your first loss over with.

Rashad looked worse than any of Machida’s opponents yes, he wasn’t even trying to do something and he didn’t show the same composure as Tito did when he got hurt..

To be fair, no one has had an answer to Machida yet. Rashad did seem lulled to sleep by Machida, but Machida has the complete package. I don’t see too many fighters who can solve that riddle, especially Rashad. Also, Rashad had not yet been defeated technically, so he came in with an ego. Him being humbled will do wonders for him in his next fight.

there not already?

You got me on that one.

During the fight, Rashad was talking shit literally during the fight seconds before he got ktfo.

In the middle of the fight, I believe he was saying “is that all you got” and got Koed while saying it.

Right as Machida was knocking him out lol

thats what ruined him his mouth was wide open speaking than machida hit that crushing blow. after that a few more punches and he was totalled. but rampage is going to take this. better boxer, good head movement and quick reflexes. i think rampage will win by ko late in the first

So your telling me Rampage will make more winning this fight than to regain the title. Don’t think so bro.

i think he took this fight because eh did not want machida, and than hyped up the hate for rashad. when did they have bad blood? one shit talk session after his win over jardine and thats it, was that enough to pass a title shot?

I honestly think Page took it personal, and felt like Rashad was trying to upstage him. I dont think its hype. I really think Jackson just likes to fight and feels there is more people that want to see this fight. He has said over and over agian he dosent care about the belt he cares more about beating people up. I like it when guys take this stuff personal. There are too many nice guys in mma we need some good rivalries. I understand that alot of people think this is just hype but i dont feel that way. I will change my mind if i see a big embrace after the fight thought. I am one that dosent believe in hype. If you need to hate they guy to fight him and you talk shit about him, there is no reason to hug him after the fight. All you need is a glove touch at the end out of mutual respect. I hate seeing guys hug after a fight when they spend months talking shit about eachother.

It’s pure hype, or at least the in-ring confrontation after the Jardine fight was. That shit happens all the time after fights to hype the next one. It wasn’t Rashad’s idea. Rashad can be a cocky prick, but he didn’t do or say anything that lots of Rampage’s opponents haven’t said before. All this sudden and, IMO, irrational hatred of Rashad is just another reason not to fight a guy he knows will diminish his ability to make money.

He’s not frightened of Machida, per se, he just knows that he won’t be as big a commodity if he gets schooled and embarrassed like all Machida’s other opponents have been. Anyone but Machida has the belt, Rampage fights them, because the champ has the status and if he beat the seemingly invincible Machida, he would be making more money than ever.

go to wolfslayer to watch him train ?

I don’t see how he’s 1 dimensional when wrestling is his base, and he held his own on the ground with Dan Henderson in a 5 rd fight where you saw TDD, reversals, and all kinds of grappling skill on display.

i do admit i hate seeing rampage only rely on boxing. if knees to the downed opponent were still aloud rampages full aresnel from pride would still be around. i remember watching the jardine fight after page takes him down he thinks about kneeing him in the head on the ground but stops himself. old rampages ground game along with new rampages boxing skills would undoubtably be the #1 heavyweight in the world and would probably beat machida convingly

LOL Jared, you think Rampage is the only guy who can throw knees to a downed opponent? Rampage couldn’t beat Machida convincingly if he had a bat. His boxing skills are decent but totally overrated. Rashad is right, he comes forward swinging for the fences. His defence is good enough to ususally avoid getting tagged too bad, but it’s his chin that kereps him from getting counter-KO’d. That shit will work against less skilled opponents, but it will catch up to Page when he finally faces a talented striker in Machida.

Oh, and an additional LOL at JG’s ‘Wolfslayer’! That should be Hendo’s new nickname.

Jeremy, no one quite does it like Rampage did in Pride! his GnP was brutal…
I know for a fact that you’re wrong about Rampage being counter Ko’d since he is the one that counters and KO’s.. Machida is going to be running around and trying to kick Rampage apart, if he tries to play with the hands he’s getting KO’d in a minute!.. Machida’s boxing is horrible at best

well then i guess rashad just got ktfo against a guy with " horrible at best" boxing skills

and that should be hendos new nickname……ever since he ko’d bisping its been my msn picture and my msn name since it happened " dan henderson is my hero" lol

Rampage gets hit a lot. His chin keeps him in fights when other guys would go to sleep. And Machida isn’t a boxer, his style is different, but his hands are five times faster and more accurate than Rampage’s are.

Your opinions on Machida don’t mean much to me RoB, sonce I distinctly remember a post you made right before the Rashad fight that asserted Machida is not a very good striker and his punches do no damage. How’d that turn out for ya?

If Rampage employs the strategy he did against Jardine, he won’t even get through Evans. His camp sucks and I am starting to question if he will ever as good as he was a few years ago when he seemd to be taking the sport more seriously.

Oh, and this ‘Rampage is a counter-puncher’ talk is a bunch of nonsense. He countered Chuck and Wanderlei, who were both being wildly aggressive, but look at most of his fights and he’s coming forward swinging and missing.

Watch his fights against Forrest and Jardine. There is an example of Rampage fighting guys who know how to strike intelligently and they made him look silly quite often. And those guys aren’t even talented strikers, they just fought a little smarter! Wait until Machida combines that intelligent approach with pinpoint striking and impossible angles and Rampage is going to look ridiculous! Enjoy your stupid hyped-up show while you can boys, because Rampage is getting schooled and he’s getting schooled badly.

JJ you have got to be kidding me… They made Page look silly?? Both of them almost got KTFO several times, and rocked repeatedly during those fights, if anything they both looked silly everytime they tried to stay in the pocket and trade.

And Rampage won’t be fighting Machida, after he gets by Rashad cause by the time he fights for a title Shogun will be holding the belt!

Yes, he looked silly limping around the cage getting outboxed by Forest, and he looked silly swinging wildly against Jardine. Like I said, both of those guys are average strikers and they held their own. Think what a natural talent like Machida will do to him.

Riiiiight…

Well he sure did look fantastic against Shogun last time they met. Maybe this time Rampage will come up with an even better excuse not to get beat in a title fight, like he’s got to help his dawgs make a rap video or something … After all, it’s all about the paper, yo.

Rampage came in with a broken rib to that fight or something and he trained with amateurs… Machida’s boxing is bad, Rampage won’t run into his punches like Rashad did!.. It wasn’t his gameplan against Jardine it was his training, he also won that fight clearly..

I’ve never seen Rampage get hit by a solid punch in any fight, he does not get hit often at all on the chin, where do you get that from? only time he did was against Wand and he lost that one..

He slipped under Forrest’s punches and it was the most beautiful thing to ever watch in MMA, he dominated Forrest but hurt got his leg hurt…

I know Machida’s not a boxer, but Rampage is and that’s why Machida won’t have any success with his punches…
Just take Tito, he ran away from Tito and couldn’t hurt him (except for that knee) because of Tito’s defense, add Rampage’s wrestling and power to that..

“if anything they both looked silly everytime they tried to stay in the pocket and trade.”

Exactly my point, OD old son. Machida won’t stand in the pocket and trade, and if Rashad has half a brain he won’t either. Rampage can be picked apart from the outside and then finished once he gets tired and frustrated and starts going wild. He is VERY hard to KO, but enough shots on the button will KO anybody. Just a few weeks ago we were all praising Bisping’s chin.

Rampage is one of the VERY best LHWs in the word, and I still love watching him fight, although I’ve lost some respect for him as of late. I just think some of the facets of his game are overrated, among them his boxing. It’s good, but it’s not great. Machida’s striking IS great. You will see the difference when they meet, just like Rashad fans did.

My prediction is inside of 2 years we’ll be talking about how Machida is still a tough fight for anybody, but he won’t be holding a belt. Maybe a contender, but not the Champ.

Well thats no surprise JJ, Machida doesn’t stay in the pocket and trade with anybody.. Page is a serious threat standing up, I don’t care who you are, he’ll be thinkin about the KO punch; and if Rampage decides to he does have the physical strength to force a TD. Not going to be as easy as you think it is, assuming they fight. I still think if Shogun shows up 100% and his mental/physical game are on, he can beat Machida. I was not impressed with his win over Rashad, I was more dissapointed in Rashad’s performance than I was impressed by Machida. Rashad did NOTHING, and NO it was not Machida making him look bad, it was his lack of committment to any type of plan of attack that lost him that fight. He had no game plan except wait and see what happens.

My prediction is that inside of ONE year Shogun and Rampage will be Machida victims and you’ll be singing a different tune entirely. Once he’s beaten them, even the biggest Machida-bashers (glances meaningfully at OD) will have no choice but to admit he is the very best in his weight class.

really? who on Earth do you see beating Chida? I mean there’s a # of fighters who have a shot ie Shogun but I just don’t see it within 2 years. He’s barely even been hit before…lets throw some names around…Jones in 2-3 years, Page, even Silva I’d say would lose to Chida. IMO Machida is THE best P4P fighter in the world…and you know I’m a GSP guy.

How can you have him as the best P4P fighter in the world? We’ve seen GSP do it all, in every position, subs, striking, wrestling, the whole gambit. Same with Fedor and maybe a lot less wrestling but Penn as well. I haven’t seen enough from Machida to put him on a P4P list at all; he’s still unproven to have his name up there next to A. Silva, Fedor and GSP. Lets see him defend this title a few times before we start talking about how he’s the best fighter in the world.

I don’t think he can be mentioned with GSP, Anderson and Fedor YET. He hasn’t beaten enough elite guys. But he has the talent to be there with them for sure, and once he’s destroyed Shogun and Page he will be. He still hasn’t lost a round and I don’t see him losing one anytime soon.

The only way to know for sure is for them to fight, but I would say Page, Shogun, Cain, Forrest, Couture,Hendo and as a darkhorse I think you could throw vera and jones in their as possibles. Im not saying everyone of these guys win against him, but all of them are in my opionion close in skill level and all could beat any of each other on any given night.

best fighter in the world…stamped it ;)

Tomorrow Silva’s fighting Machida…who are ya takin’ OD and JJ and why?

LOL Mac, I wouldn’t bet on that fight. Machida is a little harder to hit, but Anderson has more lethal knees. I’d have to think about it, but I’d probably take Machida by decision. I have a feeling there might not be a lot of strikes thrown in that fight. Doesn’t matter ‘cause we’ll never see it anyway.

But remember Mac ole buddy, that doesn’t mean he’s above Anderson (yet) in P4P rankings, because he has to prove it by dominating the best guys in his division like GSP and Silva have first.

Ok…I’ll give ya that…Machida hasn’t EARNED a spot above GSP, Fedor, Silva on the P4P list YET…but, like you, I ’d still pick him to beat Silva and anyone else at 205

I’m a Rampage fan, but the idea of him beating Machida is ridiculous. He’s not even on the same level as Machida. His evasiveness and pinpoint accuracy are going to dominate the 205 division for a long time. I agree with McArthur, i think even Silva couldn’t solve him. Silva’s already said he wouldn’t fight him because “they’re friends”, which is true, but I think he knows he would lose.

C’mon Drew. What the hell could Forrest do to Machida? I could see someone picking Couture and Hendo based on their wrestling pedigree (I still disagree but I can understand the reasoning), but straight ahead Muay Thai guys like Cane and Vera would get destroyed as well.

Shogun has better Muay Thai skills than Cane or Vera IMO, so he has a better chance, but that brawling style simply DOES NOT WORK against fast and accurate, patient strikers like Machida and Anderson. Wide looping punches in bunches = getting KO’d by more educated tactician.

I’d take A. Silva, cause the man doesn’t drink urine for breakfast.

Let me see, side of bacon, 2 eggs, wait somethings missing; o yea, frothy cup of piss. Awesome.

Haha, don’t knock the glass over ‘till you’ve tried it.

I like how a lot of the arguments against Machida being awesome often come down to ‘He drinks piss and that’s gross. Shogun by KO’. LOL. At least the guy doesn’t go on dangerous, um, rampages through city streets and turn dowen title shots he claimed meant the world to him in favor of talking bad trash for seven months. Oh well. To each his own, and stuff.

Well let me see, who would I pick, uhh yeah Machida!!!

CSAC better watch his @ss when they call him in for a drug test, if he gets anywhere near the other samples it’s gonna be like a wine tasting convention.

saying “frothy” makes it even more disgusting

I don’t know if you guys watch a lot of boxing or K-1, but if you have you’ll notice that a super-aggressive brawling style can only take you so far. The very best strikers can beat a guy like that with speed and countering. While you’re swinging you can be hit, and it’s those punches you don’t see coming that fuck you up.

Even Paquiao had to change his style to implement more footwork and counter-punching because he got schooled by Marquez’ right hand when he just came forward. Beating Anderson or Machida standing up is impossib;e for the current crop of MW and LHW strikers, unless they get stupid or their opponents get lucky. The ground is the place to beat both of these guys, because they have the best timing, speed and accuracy in MMA. Machida and Silva are not weak on the ground by any means, but they are nowhere near as dominant there as they are on their feet.

LOL OD.

Anyway, to summarize:

Undisciplined strikers like Shogun and Wand will get completely outclassed and destroyed by guys like Andy and Machida. Thanks for your time.

agreed…I hate to say it but Wand couldn’t last a rnd with Andy

I think they may eat more punch’s but if they can cut the angles put his back up against the fence and get into a toe to toe exchange then they can definatley knock them out. The old saying in boxing is box a brawler, brawl a boxer no? Brawling does have it’s place in high level striking competition and it goes both ways.

You’ve got a point there OD, but brawling is always a deperate strategy. It means you are outclassed. Whenever you resort to brawling you are open to get hit, and against good fighters you will get hurt and tired. I see your point though. It really is probably the only viable stand-up strategy for these guys. You could clip them with something, but the chances are you’ll only hasten your own demise.

Forget a round Mac … the Wand we saw running after Franklin wouldn’t last one MINUTE with Anderson. They are on completely different levels at this point in their respective careers, but Wand never had the technique or the talent that Anderson has. The reach is a big factor too, especially when you like to swing wildly and don’t have the longest arms.

The bottom line is that MMA striking has evolved beyond mindless brawling and predictable combinations, and Anderson and Machida are the pinnacle of that evolution.

well said

I don’t see Brawling as a style of desperation at all, I’ll cite Ali vs Frazier 1971 as a perfect example of a brawler beating a boxer. Close, tough fight, but Razier still came away with the “W”. I found a great article on that fight that kind of sums up how I feel about brawling and MMA vs these so called “tactical genius’s”

“Some people describe Frazier as a "one-dimensional" fighter, others would say he was "predictable". In one sense they are right – when Frazier came to do battle everyone knew what style and strategy he would be employing. But in the live environment of a boxing match, with every split-second being fraught with danger and with battles being won and lost by instances of instinctual timing and mental concentration, Frazier was anything but predictable.”

well quote from the article anyway

Hey JJ have we seen anyone press him yet. Not in the bull rush style but im talking about pressing him with accurate strikes. Yes he has looked great so far but no one has fought him. I do think forrest will give anderson a good fight and depending on the odds if I bet it will be on Forrest over silva. Shogun is very good on the ground and in the clinch which is where you need to fight machida. It has been shown so far in all but one of Machida’s fights that you can’t fight him from the outside. The only person who pressed him was silva but he did it with wide punches and his hands down none of the guys I mentioned fight that way, other than Hendo. I like the agrument though, Ill usually go against the grain.

Drew, I’m not going to tell you how to spend your coin bro, but bet sparingly on Forrest. Seriously. I explained in the Forrest thread on the main page why I believe this match-up is a horrible one for Griffin.

And as far as Smokin’ Joe goes, they fought three times, OD. Ali learned from his mistakes, and beat him twice, once by TKO. He got careless the first time. And Frazier was not a complete wild man. He also had a LOT of talent along with one of the most vicious left hooks that ever lived. Still, point taken, and it is a valid one. I always give credit where it’s due.

;-)

Drew – we saw Tito, Thiago Silva, and in some respects Rashad press him. I don’t think all-out aggression is a high-percentage strategy for taking out Machida. His style is based on countering aggression.

JJ #1 Lacheetah fan!

Wait your boy will lose at 104!

Tito pressed him to get a take down not with accurate strikes. The only thing rashad pressed was his own back into the cage then his face into machida’s glove. No all out aggression will not beat Machida. Im talking about cutting off angles and throwing calculating strikes not haymakers. To beat him someone needs to close the gap and get in there and fight him. Clinch go to the ground throw leg kicks. I couldnt beat him, and Im not saying it will be easy to beat him but I think the 205ers are pretty close in talent and I dont see anyone defending the belt 6 times in a row.

Well six title defences is a tall order for anybody. Anderson only has five and he’s been in a weaker division. IMO pressing Machida might work one out of twenty times. The other nineteen times you keep missing and get decisioned or you get too aggressive and get KO’d.

I don’t think the KO over Thiago Silva surprised anyone, Thiago’s a young unproven fighter, promising prospect but still got a long road ahead of him.

Rashad didn’t press Machida, I was baffled by his performance in that fight, he didn’t look to employ any offensive plan of attack at all. It was like he was just circling and waiting to see what happened next. Maybe he was hoping Machida would drop his hands and stick his chin out for him?? Who knows.

 As for Tito, I don’t think anyone would make the argument that his stand up is very dangerous at the UFC level of competition. His shots were set up poorly and although he was stalking Machida, he really wasn’t doing much in the way of offensive striking.

I have not seen Machida, up against someone that comes in with their head on straight, thats proven themselves as a top fighter and that has a workable gameplan that they’re able to at least attempt to employ throughout the duration of a fight against him. Tito is a top guy at LHW, but by his own admission Dana White hand picked that fight because it was stylistically a bad match up for Tito Ortiz. That does not impress me. Soko proved to be a flash in the pan. Maybe someday he’ll get it together, but he’s not a top 10 guy right now. Bj Penn LW, Rich Franklin’s success has all been at MW, with marginal success at LHW. I’m just not impressed by beating smaller guys, guys hand picked to fight you cause the pres has a grudge against them, and arguably a top fighter in Rashad Evans, that came in looking like garbage. I do not believe he looked like garbage because Machida made him look that way, I sincerely believe that performance was a product of poor game planning/mental prep and focus for that fight.

Right OD, because Greg Jackson fighters are renowned for their ‘poor game planning/mental prep and focus’ coming into fights. Come on. You could offer that excuse to any losing fighter.

Rashad came in looking shaky because he was scared and respectful of Machida’s skills. He got beat up because he faced a fighter who brought things to the table he had never seen before, and completely outclassed him on his feet for the first time in his career.

OD, I hope you’re working on some excuses for why Shogun got his ass kicked as well. What’ll it be this timke? More ‘bad focus and gameplan’ excuses, or will you go with the knee injury recovery? Can’t wait. Sooner or later your stubborn ass will just have to admit Machida’s greatness or you’re going to appear delusional.

You were dead wrong about Rashad, and you’re going to be dead wrong about Shogun. Sooner or later excuses have to stop and reality has to set in. I can break down ANY fighter’s list of victories and list what his opponents did wrong. It is totally pointless. If you lost, of course you probably made a mistake. The bottom line is that the guy who keeps winning and never is in trouble makes THE LEAST MISTAKES. Combine that with skill and you have the superior fighter.

Let’s settle this right now. You claim Shogun will beat Machida. IF HE GETS HIS ASS KICKED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE before him, will you admit Lyoto is the best LHW in the world and not an overrated fighter? Will you man up and admit you were wrong about him? If your answer is no, then you are unreasonable and inconsistent and have to be labelled a hater, bro. Sorry.

Oh Christ. Eh tu, Alpha? Say it ain’t so.

“Rashad came in looking shaky because he was scared and respectful of Machida’s skills.” exactly my point, didn’t have his head on right. And yes the Jackson camp is known for coming up with great gameplans, but the execution of said plan is a completely different story.

I do not have to sit here and say Machida is the best LHW in the world if he beats Shogun Rua, thats ONE title defense and that type of statement in a division that deep is entirely unwarranted/undeserved. And I do think Shogun can win that fight coming in at 100%.

BUT on the flip side, there’s a lot of fans that are saying he doesn’t even deserve a title shot right now and that he beat an over the hill Mark Coleman and an over the hill Chuck Liddell to get to the title. I can’t argue with that, I can only say that IMO Shogun has the talent and the tools to get the job done if he comes in prepared and he’s mentally ready for this fight. For me, I don’t just look at wins/loss’s, I look at how they win, and maybe even WHY they win before I pass judgment on wether or not I’m going to consider it a quality win. Shogun needs to come in in shape, he needs to look ready to go and confident, there needs to be no rumors about a supposed injury or physical problem before the fight. If all those requirements are met I have no problem giving the guy props.

But as for me as a fan, I will NEVER be a Machida fan, I’ll ALWAYS be rooting for whoever he’s fighting against, unless I really can’t stand that guy. Something about him, I just don’t connect with, somethin about the look/talk/style/attituted w/e it is, I just don’t like; if thats being a hater than fine with me. I can live with that. Inevitably if he keeps on winning I’ll have to give him that #1 status; but right now it’s a little early in his carreer to be talking like that. And even if I do at some point end up conceding that he’s #1 LHW or p4p fighter in the world, I still don’t have to like the guy or root for him in any of his fights.

Right now I think he is a great fighter but I still think he is beatable. The only fighter(and this is unfortunate for me to be typing because i cant stand him) That has cleaned out their division and really has no challenge is GSP. I will say I enjoy watching Machida fight. And how bout a friendly wager for the fight. Ill take Shogun and you can have machida. Loser has to end every post until the next ufc event with the other person is the greatest. IE if shogun wins every ime you post a comment you put Drew is the greastest. And vice versa for me to you.

It is NOT early in his career to be talking about him being the #1 LHW. What you’re basically telling me is that Machida has to walk on water before he is the best in your eyes. You apply ridiculous considerations to Shogun fighting Machida:

“Shogun needs to come in in shape, he needs to look ready to go and confident, there needs to be no rumors about a supposed injury or physical problem before the fight. If all those requirements are met I have no problem giving the guy props”

But you would never offer Machida the same kind of leeway. Those are nothing but ready-made excuses and I’m sure you’ll have more ready when Page gets his ass kicked as well. Again, I don’t care if you LIKE the guy. I don’t care if you ever ROOT for him. Just cut the double-standard crap and admit that he is the best LHW after he beats the guys you have repeatedly said he won’t beat. That’s all I’m asking.

By your logic, or lack therof, Rampage has no quality wins in the UFC.

1) Marvin Eastman sucks crap. Not a quality win.

2) Liddell is old and washed up, as you just pointed out. Not a quality win.

3) Dan Henderson is small for a MW and that was a close fight. Not a quality win.

4) Wanderlei gets KO’d by everybody now and he is also small for a MW. Wand came out swinging like a beserker and was still winning the exchanges ’till he got caught. Not a quality win.

5) Jardine was arguably winning the fight until the last 30 seconds when Rampage hurt him. Oh, and Jardine is not considered an elite LHW and has a KO loss to one Houston Alexander. Certainly not a quality win.

See how anybody can play this game with any fighter’s victories and losses? Do I believe those are not quality wins? No. But the case can certainly be made if you are biased against a guy and want it to be true. The fact is that if you are consistently fighting ranked opposition and beating them, they are quality wins, regardless of the excuses the pundits dig up afterwards.

In a nutshell OD, if Machida loses to Shogun it will be, acccording to you, because Shogun is better and Machida is overrated. I’m sure any excuses I offer up on Machida’s behalf would be completely disregarded by you.

If Shogun loses you have a great big laundry list of excuses prepared for why it doesn’t mean anything. You can’t have it both ways. It is a totally illogical and biased approach.

You made statements early on about Machida’s prowess which turned out to be wrong, and you have been trying to cover your ass with this double-standard horse shit ever since. In fairness to you, it was hard to tell at the time how good Machida was. But all you’re doing now is making yourself look stubborn and a tad ignorant with your ridiculous track-covering. If Machida wins you’re all ‘the guy didn’t have a good gameplan, the guy was injured, blah blah blah’. If Shogun wins, you’re going to be all ‘told you so, Machida is overrated’. It’s fucking ridiculous brother.

Agree to disagree JJ; sure you can play that game all day, I see the Fedor haters doin it all the time with him and taking it way over the top. But in some instances it does apply and IMO it does apply to Machida. I give credit where credit is due; I’m not the type of person to sit here and hate bash a fighters performance just cause I don’t like them. I might make negative remarks about them, but not their fighting ability. If I really honestly believed Machida was #1 LHW in the world or #1 p4p fighter out there, I’d give him that regardless of wether I was a fan or not. But w/e it is that you see, and some of these other fans see in him, I don’t. I’ve never had a moment in a Machida fight where I was completely WOW’d by his performance. Hasn’t happened for me yet.

AND I call a spade a spade, cause by your logic Mark Coleman’s first win over Shogun Rua is a quality win, given that a win is a win consistently fighting ranked opposition correct? And Daijiro Matsui’s win over Rampage Jackson is a quality win, cause he got kicked in the groin and opted not to continue no? See in my book those aren’t quality wins; there’s circumstances involved there that I look at in making a judgment call on those fights. Obviously those examples are pretty blatant, but the idea is that I don’t look at a win as a win or a loss as a loss; I judge the performance of the fight and try to consider all contributing factors into what shapes the outcome of that fight. That’s just my 2 cents on it. Like I said, agree to disagree.

If you weren’t WOW’d by his performances aginst Tito, Thiago and Rashad, it was because you CHOSE not to be wowed. Rashad had just beat the crap out of two former LHW champions and had never neen beaten or KO’d, even against some high-level fighters.

He landed two strikes on Lyoto the entire fight and was DESTROYED by blinding hand speed, timing and accuracy. That didn’t impress you? He outwrestled Tito and Tito failed to land a single shot on him the entire fight. He put a frigging CLINIC on Tito and Rashad. That didn’t impress you? Really? Wow dude. If that didn’t impress you, I don’t know what the fuck you find so impressive about Rampage’s fights.

And you better not be impressed by Lesnar then. He’s done a hell of a lot less to prove himself than Machida has. Four UFC fights, and a 3-1 record. Wins against Mir and Herring who are a step above can status, and Randy, a great fighter but a natural LHW and an old man who looked like he’d shrunk a couple more sizes. Lesnar was submited and he was hit hard and hurt by Couture and Mir. He has visible weaknesses in his game (stand-up and submissions). Machida has none, at least none that have been exploited so far to the point where he’s been hit hard, submitted or even been gotten the better of for one measley round.

Do I think Lesnar is a top HW? Yes. But he hasn’t fought an elite HW yet. Machida can at least say he’s KO’d an elite LHW in Rashad. My point is that everyone is talkin about how unbeatable Lesnar is and he’s done way less to prove it than Machida.

Machida isn’t the best p4p, he may have the best fight strategy p4p but that’s another story..
I think that he is one of those guys that can be KO’d if he fights someone like Rampage cause he always comes in with a single left hand everytime and Rampage can eat it or block and throw away!…

Sorry OD, I can’t let you off the hook just yet. This ‘quality win’ thing is bugging me.

Wins don’t get any more ‘quality’ than Machida’s win over Rashad. Regardless of Rashad’s gameplan, he was a healthy and undefeatded champion who got absolutely destroyed and did NO damage to his opponent. THAT is a quality fucking win. So were the Tito and Thiago wins. Whether Rashad implemented the correct strategy or not doesn’t change that a premiere fighter recieved a one-sided ass-whipping.

We could go back through the annals of every fighter’s win aginst every opponent and say they had the wrong gameplan. So what? Chuck shouldn’t have thrown a lead body shot from 4 feet away against Page. Jardine shouldn’t have tried to brawl with him in the last 30 seconds. Wand shouldn’t have gone lumberjack against him. I didn’t hear you making those facts into excuses why Page is overrated.

Not only is Machida winning, he is doing it against some very tough opposition and HE IS TAKING NO DAMAGE. Quality all the way. Stop applying conditions and excuses to Machida that you would never apply to fighters you like. It is tiresome.

And I don’t agree with you, I think Thiago is an unproven young fighter, that he was not in the top 10 at the time that they fought and that beating him is not an indication of any type of “greatness”. I think Tito Ortiz was hand picked by Dana White to fight Lyoto because stylistically it was a bad match for Tito. I think Rashad Evans had a very bad night, that he beat himself mentally more than anything else. AND I will also say this JJ, throughout this entire argument I have not attacked you once. Not your knowledge off mma, not said you’re ignorant or a hater or anything else, but you’ve implied it several times in several of your posts. I don’t appreciate that at all; and just because I disagree with you it doesn’t give you the right to call me ignorant or a hater etc.. I have my own opinion on the matter and whether you like it or not it’s backed up by good facts, and decent logic. So get the F*ck off me before I DO start to get personal with you.

And another thing that you keep bringing up that bugs the sh!t out of me is this bullcrap about how I keep making excuses for every fight he wins. Are facts just not relevant anymore?? Thiago Silva is/was a top 10 fighter? Rashad Evans did fight up to 100% of his abilities? Tito Ortiz was not given that fight by Dana White because it was a bad match up for him stylistically?? AND another thing, you can scroll up and read it, I’ve said IF he keeps on winning eventually YES, I will give him that p4p or best LHW in the world status. Yes I will concede it, but IMO (It is my OPINION and I am entitled to it regardless of the bullsh!t you wanna come up with to argue that) he has not AS OF YET proven himself. I DO NOT have to admit that he is the best LHW fighter in the world until he has PROVEN it, and he HASN’T yet, there are still a good # of LHW fighters out there, HE IS NOT Fedor, or GSP, he has not cleaned out a division yet. Get off it, just cause you count your chickens before they hatch, doesn’t mean that I have to follow suit.

Whoa, there big fella. No need to take it personally. I meant no offense. I just don’t understand why you can’t see that you apply asterisks to Machida’s victories, and yet you don’t to other fighters, such as Page. I also don’t see how, if Machida is as overrated as you claim, he hasn’t been exposed for even ONE ROUND by top UFC LHWs. And yes, even though I can’t stand him, Tito is still a very tough out, and Thiago is a bad mofo, if a trifle slow and predictable.

I simply don’t think you are at all objective in the way you look at Machida and his accomplishmnents, and I was trying to make that clear to you. And I hardly think I’m ‘counting my chickens before they hatch’. The guy is 15-0 and the reigning UFC LHW champion, and he DESTROYED the former champion, who was appearently just having a bad night. LOL, it seems like all Machida opponents, er, victims have a bad night.

Dude, the reason I’m carrying on like this is because I know you’re a smart guy. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother. You seem to be able to apply objectivity in other areas of debate, but here I find that it’s not just your opinion I disagree with, it’s the way you arrived at that opinion: through a series of illogical and biased assessments. I don’t see where I got ‘personal’, but hey – get as personal with me as you like, bro. It’s your funeral. If I did cross some line there, I apologize … but I’m thinking maybe you just don’t like the way my impeccable logic is bringing down the house of cards that is your position on Machida. ;-)

Anyway, I’ll drop it from here because it appears to be upsetting you. Peace man.

W/e JJ, I don’t agree, the only thing that irked me was the “you’re illogical, there’s nothing intelligent behind your argument” statement that comes with every post to make your opinion look better. I don’t have to sit here and say that you’re illogical or dont’ know what you’re talking about, I just let my opinion speak for itself.

good debate guys… he has to beat Rampage for me to give it to him!