Get down or get out: UFC establishes hard line on fights between teammates

by Adam Wagner on Jul 16, 2009 8:42 PM EDT

As the UFC expands, several major camps have distinguished themselves from the rest, building strong stables of fighters focused on proving themselves as top contenders in their respective divisions.

Camps like Xtreme Couture, Greg Jackson’s MMA, American Kickboxing Academy (AKA) and American Top Team, among others, have developed into MMA powerhouses. In the process, they’ve also developed strong ties between teammates who, more often than not, refuse to fight one another.

Thus far, this hasn’t presented very many problems, except perhaps for Diego Sanchez, who as a welterweight left Greg Jackson’s camp when it started a partnership with welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre. From Sanchez’s perspective, he was gunning for St. Pierre’s belt and felt he couldn’t train with his would-be opponent.

But beyond that, several fighters have openly stated that they refuse to fight teammates; however, it may only be a matter of time before they will have to, according to UFC Co-owner and CEO Lorenzo Fertitta.

Fertitta recently told Sherdog.com that he’s not in the business of trying to make sure teammates won’t fight teammates. "Look, at the end of the day, we’re here to see fighters, we’re here to see fights," said Fertitta. "If teammates don’t want to fight, then they’re gonna have to go somewhere else. We don’t put up with that stuff."

While Fertitta might be taking the hard-line approach, it makes sense from a business perspective. The UFC wants to put on the best fights, regardless of who likes who.

That didn’t stop current contender Mike Swick from dropping from middleweight to welterweight in early 2008, despite the fact that two of his AKA teammates, Jon Fitch and Josh Koscheck, were top contenders in the division at the time.

The three have been vocal in the past about refusing to fight one another, as Fitch recently stated, "I want the best for my teammates and my friends, and still, there’s plenty of good fights to be had out there. It’s not like if [Swick] wins the belt my entire fighting career is over. There’s a number of guys that I could fight and could be happy fighting at 170 in the UFC."

Greg Jackson light heavyweight teammates Rashad Evans and Keith Jardine have also said that they would not fight one another — even in the lead-up to UFC 96, when Jardine fought Quinton "Rampage" Jackson to decide the number one light heavyweight contender. Jardine lost that fight, but had he won, it’s anyone’s guess if he would have stuck to his guns and refused a title shot against then-champion Evans.

Black House teammates Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida, both champions in their respective divisions, have also stated their refusal to fight one another. Middleweight champion Silva, who competes in both the 185 and 205-pound divisions, went so far as to say that he was not interested in challenging for the light heavyweight strap, because he saw it as already belonging to his teammate, Machida — this an entire year before "The Dragon" even challenged for the light heavyweight title.

Talk about confidence in your mates ... not to mention foresight.

So what do you think? Do you think teammates should put their friendships aside and fight one another, if and when they are asked?

Keep in mind logistical concerns, such as shared space when training, which coaches and training partners corner which fighters, and how to develop fight strategies when your opponent might be in the next room.

Or do you think the UFC needs to better understand the loyalty that exists between fighters from the same camp? Fighting, after all, is a lot more than dollars and cents.

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Comments

Fight your teammates anyways.

Most fighters gameplans are completely transparent as none of them every truly change their styles up or look very different in any of their fights.

There is no advantage if both fighters know a lot about each other, only an advantage if one of them knows more than the other.

The UFC will just set a matchup between teammates and if they refuse it is a perfect pretense to can the less popular/more problematic of the two.

It’s a lose-lose situation for the fighters and a win-win situation for the UFC.

by DirtyML on Jul 16, 2009 8:47 PM EDT reply actions

They are there to fight the best in the sport the includes friends if not get used to having * that logo next to your name

by Tyler Durden on Jul 16, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Right on, since when was MMA a team sport anyway. Friends compete with friends/training partners in golf, tennis, motorsport, track n field etc etc.. fighting should be no different. Especially when it has an impact on title contention and top ten rankings. I can undersatand not matching teamates against eachother on the way up, but when you reach the top you have to fight the top guys, whoever they are.

by paniczoo on Jul 16, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, that picture is a little disturbing, looks like a bunch of naked guys are sneaking up on fitch from behind.

by paniczoo on Jul 16, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Those chinese characters on his chest= “confucius say: dont drop the soap”

by paniczoo on Jul 16, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions

lol… sicko

by DAVE A on Jul 16, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions

This looks like a scene from Bruno.

by PW on Jul 16, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

why not.. love it or leave it… you can go by the rules & fight each other and get it over with

by mikeybear on Jul 16, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Mens shower at the turkish bath house?

by Jrandolph on Jul 17, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

They look like Westlife or somethin’…

by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Jul 17, 2009 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions

A fighter fights whoever the promoters put in front of them. But, my concern with people who have trained for years together is that they probably know who will win before the fight happens.

Yes, anything can happen but we know what is most likely to happen usually does.

by DJ on Jul 16, 2009 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

The UFC is not in this fighting buisness to make freinds its in it to make champions(and lots of $$$$$$$$)

by TaPouT on Jul 16, 2009 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions

ITS ABOUT TIME. there are no tag team matches in mma that i know about so therefor its a solo sport. as for room to train, most only train the last 6 weeks or so at their named training camp from what ive heard so im sure they can figure it out. if im wrong on that, oh well, im sure ill be told

by Egads on Jul 16, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I have mixed feelings on this. If it’s necessary for the division, as it appears to be for the WW division, then it has to happen. The one that really hurts is Machida/Anderson. That’s a fight I’d LOVE to see.

by Jeremyjackson on Jul 17, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Fight team-mates, do it! I would love to see Machida vs. Silva!!! But Silva needs to get by Forest. And with the odds I will bet Forest. Mark My Words.

by iagoof22 on Jul 16, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Think that may be incorrect about Jardine, Adam. Didn’t they say at UFC 96 that if Jackson lost then Lyoto Machida would have gotten the title shot? Don’t think Jardine would have had to make that choice.

by JoePiervincenti on Jul 16, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

The MAIN problem I see with this is splitting up training partners and coaches. So if its Fitch v. Swick, who does Kos and Cain train with?? If Kos trains with both of them , then their gameplans will be out the window. Who gets the boxing coach?? Who gets the jits coach? And then Crazy Bob Cook is going to corner Fitch and not Swick Thats bull. Friends fighting friends is one thing, but teammates fighting each other is another. It would split the whole camp up and sh*t would hit the fan. Also another key is the mental aspect. How are they going to get "pumped" up to go whale on their buddies melon??

Another issue is injuries. Every fighter comes into a fight with an injury. So when Swick gets a bum right knee, everyone at AKA is going to know about it , including Fitch.

With all that said, it would be an awesome fight..lol…if they werent teammates

by robbyc on Jul 17, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions

Great post robbyc

by attakdog on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

This is your job, in no other sport you could not get away with saying well I am a defensive linemen and I am not going to play against my quarterback brother or a former college teammate or anything like that.

by Edgecrusher71 on Jul 17, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions

You obviously don’t read well. What he said is that these people train in the same building. Eli Manning and Peyton don’t play on the same team.

Fighting established fighters who train at your own school and have done so for a while can come between people, especially since there is money involved.

by Space on Jul 17, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Screw it, make ‘em fight. They’re fighters, not human beings…

;)

by BigRedOne on Jul 16, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions

lol.

by Synyster on Jul 16, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions

lol

by jay on Jul 16, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Good sh*t. At first i agreed with the notion that fighters need to fight each other regardless of relationship, if need be.

But after reading Mania’s disclaimer regarding specific issues, probably to help guide some of our aimless posts, I think the UFC should be a little more understanding.

Dana White and Brock Lesnar are the SH*T!

by Jammin on Jul 16, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s all about the money at the end of the day, and dont let anyone tell you different.

by Youtaped on Jul 16, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions

Finally

by Tower on Jul 16, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions

Hey when you become a fighter you do it to fight not to make friends. I dont see a need to have teammates fight if their are other fights to be had, but lets say anderson silva clears out the middle weight division again. Beats Forrest and maybe GSP, all the while Lyoto wins all his fights, who is left for them to fight, they would need to fight each other. I believe the UFC has already shown that they dont want to make fights just to spite people. Well other than Tito, but thats debatable. When Matt Hughes was beating people and Joe Riggs was really the only challenger the UFC had they fought and they were teammates. I dont see a problem if the fight makes sense as in they’ve both worked to a number one contender match or one has the belt and the other is the number one contender. At your job im sure you have friends and sometime promotions come down to you and your friend. A fighters job is to fight so fight the best even if the best is your teammate.

by Drew on Jul 16, 2009 9:03 PM EDT reply actions

Eventually fighters in the same camp should fight eachother if it comes down to it. The UFC should offer some extra $$ incentive for all the incamp trouble it’ll cause. As of right now I don’t see the need to have any of the teammates fight eachother in any weight class. However, an A. Silva VS Machida would be a huge PPV draw and teamates fighting eachother would make for some exciting fights for fans such as Tyson VS Maynard, Kos VS Fitch etc..

by DAVE A on Jul 16, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I bet Fertitta was looking squarely at the AKA fighters when he said this. That Kos-Fitch-Swick cluster-f has been holding up the WW division for a couple years now.

by PW on Jul 16, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions

When were Riggs and Hughes training partners? Im just curiouse I live in Arizona and I though Riggs trained with Edwin Dewees when he was in the UFC

by lokie on Jul 16, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions

If the fans want it, they shall have it. Fight or leave, only way. Remember…it’s a sport, nothin’ personal.

by Stryker on Jul 16, 2009 9:06 PM EDT reply actions

I’d say DON"T match up teamates UNLESS it was for a TITLE shot or MAYBE number 1 contender!

Fitch vs KOS vs Swick
Jardine vs Evans II
Silva vs Machida
Griffin vs Maynard
Couture vs Forrest
WANDY vs Maia
COUTURE vs HENDO (former olympic teamates and Team Quest memebers). **

are all fights i’d LOVE to see!

by SoCalStunNa on Jul 16, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Hell. I would fight my brother for the strap. THEN again, I don’t really like by brother.

by ATNIP on Jul 16, 2009 9:07 PM EDT reply actions

hahahahaha

by RT on Jul 16, 2009 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Good sh*t.

I think it has something to do with ego; these fighter/friends don’t want to know who’s tougher cause it might lead to friction.

We need Jeremy Jackson’s opinion here, i bet he’d have some insightful sh*t about the topic.

by Jammin on Jul 16, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions

i remember bo jackson said if he saw his momma on the football field wearing an opponents jersey he would run her over too.

by Egads on Jul 16, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions

These assholes need to understand MMA is not a team sport. When it comes time to compete it’s one man against another man, and you find who is better. Guys in team sports get traded/released/leave in free agency and compete against former friends/former college teammates all the time. None of them get their panties in a bunch over it.

Besides, it’s like Rampage said — If I have a chance to help my friend earn $50,000 by fighting him and I don’t do it, then what kind of friend am I? Or something like that.

by PW on Jul 16, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Ya what kind of Ass-Hole wouldnt fight his friend? I agree with what your sayin but it doesnt make them assholes. Id have a hard time fighting some of the guys I train Jits with. That being said there are many I love to choke the fuck out of, and I agree if it was for a number one contender match or for the strap lets do it. To make friends fight just to fight is bullshit

by lokie on Jul 16, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I think some guys might have the fear that thier game will be off and affected by the friendship.

I get it, I quit, but I get it.

by Jrandolph on Jul 17, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Nice JRandolph. The most obvious problem here is when Kos, Fitch and Swick are all top 5 WW fighters and are holding up the division by refusing to fight each other. There are probably other examples as well, but that one is easily the most problematic.

by PW on Jul 17, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Jrandolph – love the Geico ref!!!

by McArthur on Jul 17, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

IF the UFC actually started taking a hard stance on this it could have some serious issues considering most of the top guys in the UFC come from the same camps and dont want to fight each other, which come to think of it might be why GSP has not wanted to move up and fight Anderson now that he trains with Nate.

by Khaos_Warrior on Jul 16, 2009 9:19 PM EDT reply actions

It has not been a problem so far, and don’t think they should be forced to fight.

by theCloser on Jul 16, 2009 9:46 PM EDT reply actions

Friends have fought before. When Hendo came into the octogan after Rampage beat Chuck and that fight was announced they were joking around with each other. If I remember correctly, Rampage even said something like “We’re friends, but we are gonna fight and make some money”. Rampage tried to stare Dan down and Hendo laughed at him. Then they tried to kill each other. The fight was over, they were joking around immediately after.
Then there is Fedor and Barnett, they are well known to be good friends. But they are going to fight, because it is the best fight Affliction has to offer and each fighter knows it.
Teammates need to get over it. It’s not that big of a deal really. Pretty much everyone in this sport, except Brock, shows nothing but respect to their opponets after the fight anyway. Fight, may the best man win, shake hands and have a beer afterwards.

by efisher on Jul 16, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions

lol i see where your coming from
but that kind friendship is different then the friendship teammates have
im sure page and hendo didnt train together everyday before that fight together same with fedor and barnett

for the aka guys they all train together day in day out together so them having to fight each other wouldnt be pleasant thats why fitch always says im not fighting swick or kos

by ian on Jul 17, 2009 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions

its gonna be hilarious when this causes numerous fighters to go to Sengoku and Strikeforce. I respect what they are trying to do, especially the possibility of a Machida vs. Silva fight (eee!), but it is going to end up costing them a good bit of people to the rising mma orgs in the near future.

by Bill Maher on Jul 16, 2009 10:54 PM EDT reply actions

I doubt they will risk losing Silva or Machida by trying to force them to fight each other. Especially when they are in different weight classes originally.

by Paul on Jul 17, 2009 4:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Back street back
ALRIGHT!!!

Looks like a boyband

by phenomenal angel on Jul 16, 2009 11:53 PM EDT reply actions

oh oh Oh oh oh
oh oh OH oh
oh oh OH oh oh
The right stuff

by PW on Jul 17, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

HANGING TOUGH!
HANGING TOUGH!
HANGING TOUGH!

WE’RE ROUGH!

Every little while we let the BSB in us come out. What’s wrong with us?

by UFC Champ on Jul 17, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

man i dont think you guys get it its not fair to make team mates fight eachother they become like a family and grow together if you make all the good fighters fight each other who the hell will they ever train with?

by dustin on Jul 17, 2009 12:03 AM EDT reply actions

Machida I doubt would ever even think about fighting a TM, for him Martial arts = Loyalty.

by MMK on Jul 17, 2009 12:04 AM EDT reply actions

the thing about the ufc is that there are SO many talented fighters at every weight class..

what i really want to see is nick diaz vs jake shields…i dont care what shields says i bet nick would do that shit…hes been fighting way too long to have not gotten a shot at the belt…and cung le isnt gonna be defending his belt anytime soon…and the strikeforce roster just isnt stacked enough for these 2 to keep avoiding each other…

they have both completely dismantled everyone theyve faced…nick diaz is a fighter, hes a warrior…i guaran fucking tee you if they came to him and said “nick if you want a title shot you got it, heres your chance at gold, fuck the interim shit with cung le gone, you want your shot at shields and the belt you got it” i bet nick would take that shit..

the ufc has enough fighters for friends to avoid each other, but strikeforce doesnt, and diaz and shields are on a tear…no one is fucking with either of those two….thats the friend fight i want to see..

i bet diaz would do it,

by HellaHectic on Jul 17, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions

I don’t think it’s a matter of friend vs. friend but rather an issue of training staff. They have the same coaches, training partners, etc. and if they were forced to fight it would divide the gym and effect everyone in the camp…

by steve m on Jul 17, 2009 1:48 AM EDT reply actions

I reckon it’d make boring fights anyway, they’d know too much about each other.

by Chris on Jul 17, 2009 3:04 AM EDT reply actions

Yep, it’s about damn time! Try fighting each other instead of sucking b@lls and givin’ out free hand-jobs to teammates for a change!

by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Jul 17, 2009 3:43 AM EDT reply actions

For titles, yes. Otherwise there is plenty of guys to fight that isn’t your teammates.

by Paul on Jul 17, 2009 4:24 AM EDT reply actions

I agree

by attakdog on Jul 17, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Dana doesn’t really like and has major issues with the fighters at AKA, because when he tells them to bend over, they don’t ask how low. If he can have any excuse to get rid of some of those guys he would gladly do it. I am sure he is hoping that this is his opportunity. I think these guys should be proffesional(that doesn’t look right) and friends enough to not have any real issues about fighting each other. You get fighters who do not even know each other embracing and hugging out of respect after a well fought war, teamates should be able to do the same, although it would probably be at the back of my mind if one of my teammates beat the crap out of me and then I had to go in and train with him the follwing week.

by Ade on Jul 17, 2009 6:07 AM EDT reply actions

if teammates fight team mates…..we could be in for a boring fight.

by ABCD on Jul 17, 2009 8:21 AM EDT reply actions

we’re mostly talking Koscheck and Fitch. It’s going to be boring regardless.

by PW on Jul 17, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Yup

by attakdog on Jul 17, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Another issue is injuries. Every fighter comes into a fight with an injury. So when Swick gets a bum right knee, everyone at AKA is going to know about it , including Fitch.

With all that said, it would be an awesome fight..lol…if they werent teammates

by robbyc on Jul 17, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions

I hate that the UFC is doing this. These guys rely on eachother to train and get better. They need other top guys close to their weight to train with. If they have to start worrying about fighting each other, how is that going to effect how they train? There are plenty of matches out there without having teammates fighting each other.

by Nate on Jul 17, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions

Koscheck vs Fitch has to happen. It would be a brawl. Swick vs Koscheck would be great too.

by nick on Jul 17, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions

I think rampage and dan henderson said it best " hey were good friends this aint nothing personal, just business "

And anyway you damn well know that every fighter would love to know if they can beat there team mate, i know i do !

if your not top of your division yet holding that strap up high, you damn well wanna be the best on your team !

by apex103 on Jul 17, 2009 11:19 AM EDT reply actions

also just get over it and fight, if you aint friends after, fuck it ! game plans dont matter that much when it comes down to it !

by apex103 on Jul 17, 2009 11:23 AM EDT reply actions

koshcheck and fitch, wrestling match simple as ! fitch is great, koshcheck bad, me i would kill them both ! i am a vicous 185 here in ireland and all you guys will be hearing of me soon, so remember apex !!! hoping to get onto the paddy day ufc here in dublin ! but id drop to 170 for koshcheck or fitch anyday !

by apex103 on Jul 17, 2009 11:25 AM EDT reply actions

OK there Apex this isnt XBOX 360 dont let that UFC Undisputed game fill your head with bull**** you cant just drop weight and beat two top welter weight fighters in the world. LOL

by Cory on Jul 17, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Let GSP beat all three AKA teammates in a row starting with Swick than Fitch and than popcorn head KOS. There is also Hughes, Alves, Kampman, Condit, Penn, Johnson, Hardy, Davis, etc. The list can go on these matchups will take years by than new talent should come along. GSP also traind with Cote, Marquardt, Sugar. I dont think GSP wants to stomp on his teammates dance floor.

by Cory on Jul 17, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions

THe UFc is here to promote fights, if fighters dont want to fight each other then the fighter should just be frozen out.

Fans want to see the best fights and thats what the fighters should care about when they go into the business of being MMA fighters.

by ramon on Jul 19, 2009 12:21 AM EDT reply actions

I think some will be surprised at how many fighters will compromise on this point when it comes to career and $$$. Sure, they can say they won’t fight teammates right now; but if it came down to “fight a teammate or leave the UFC”, most fighters will fight teammates. The UFC would probably make it worth their while for teammates to make this compromise by putting some kind of incentive in the bout agreements.

There may be some fighters who take a hard line on this issue, but many will cave and fight each other. A teammate is not worth a major blow to your career.

by Fred on Aug 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions