Too much, too fast: Weight cut influenced Thiago Alves loss to Georges St. Pierre at UFC 100
by MMAmania.com on Jul 13, 2009 11:15 PM EDT
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Props: FightHype.com
Quoteworthy:
"We felt that the way to beat 'Rush' was through counter-punching and boxing.... I wanted him to bait St-Pierre, to strike and then counter-punch. Many times you go there with a plan, but your opponent doesn't allow you to bring it to fruition, and that's what happened ... Thiago did not show his capability of being explosive. He lost too much weight too fast and lost his explosiveness in the process. That's why he lost the fight. Thiago can beat St. Pierre.... Thiago is a warrior and a tremendous fighter. He lasted the five rounds and he never quit. He's extremely strong and that's why he kept getting up. He does have what it takes to beat Georges. He has to keep his head up and know that there will be more opportunities. He's still very young and that can work for you -- and against you. Against you because you may not have the maturity or the perspective of your entire career and the future; or it can work for you, helping you learn from it, and realize how much better you can be, and how much more time you have ... we just have to keep moving forward."
Eric "El Tigre" Castano -- kickboxing and Muay Thai coach for Thiago Alves -- talks about his fighter's unanimous decision loss to welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre at UFC 100 at the Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, on July 11. St. Pierre completely tamed the "Pitbull" for five rounds, nullifying his dangerous striking attack with a mix of speed, wrestling and ground and pound. Alves -- who earned the opportunity with seven consecutive wins against several of the best the division has to offer -- could not get anything going during the 25-minute championship match. St. Pierre's gameplan had a lot to do with the result, but so too did Alves' weight cut (according to his trainer), which apparently zapped much of his explosiveness. Alves is among the biggest fighters in the 170-pound division and he has historically had a tough time hitting the mark. It's important to note that Alves himself revealed last week that he was lighter heading into this fight than he has been in recent past. Perhaps the last few pounds were stubborn and did him in, which begs the question, should Alves move up to middleweight (a class that Castano feels he's too light for) or stay right where he is and make another run at the belt?
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And that’s very similar to what GSP said after the fight. He even made reference to his own first fight versus Matt Hughes.
Of course he’s not admitting that he’ll eventually lose to Alves, but just acknowledging that Alves has the potential for greatness if he works to become as well-rounded as St. Pierre has.
by split decision on Jul 13, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions
he said the same thing to Fitch. Don’t worry about the lose… you’ll get back stronger.
It’s all about class and respect.
by Jee on Jul 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Eric "El Tigre" Castano, is CRAZY! What happened to Alves camp saying that he was doing great and was about 3 pounds lighter than normal. Meaning he wasnt gona have to cut much weight by the weigh-ins.
by JV on Jul 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO, Alves didn’t even look that big next to GSP. I thought George APPEARED to be the bigger fighter.
by RedDog on Jul 13, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Georges WAS the bigger fighter. Alves is puffy and stocky. Georges is long and lean, with a wider frame. He is the bigger guy.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 13, 2009 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
GSP is only the “taller” guy. Alves is bigger, what were you guys watching?
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP has longer arms, wider shoulders, a lower body fat percentage, a bigger overall frame, and a WAY more muscular lower body. He’s bigger.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 14, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s only taller. The bigger and heavier guy was Alves. You said it yourself, GSP has a lower fat percentage. Ergo, skinnier. Thiago’s a fat-ass. He definitely is bigger. Or in scientific terms, he’s more “massive”. GSP is only more “dense” ‘coz he’s more compact with almost zero body fat. Thiago is flabby. I could go on comparing ’em both. But the real judge are my eyes. Standing side-by-side, Thiago really looks bulkier than GSP. Enough said. ;)
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP is extremely lean and stays that way all year around to avoid problems and stay healthy. Alves has been cutting to 170 for years now. I just refuse to believe that ATT doesn’t know how to train their fighters and cut weight properly. Enough with the alleged weight problems.
by DSmith on Jul 14, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I was really surprised by the reach advantage. I hadn’t considered that at all with everyone going on about how big Thiago is. Alot of WW’s have a greater reach than Alves.
by DSmith on Jul 14, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
JJ- here’s that link that has Brock’s salary. I posted it on another thread.
by DSmith on Jul 14, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Check this out. Lorenzo Fertita talking about Teammate vs. Teammate fights:
“At the end of the day, we are here to see fighters and we are here to see fights,” Fertitta said when asked about the potential of teammate vs. teammate match-ups.
“If teammates don’t want to fight, then they are just going to have to go somewhere else,” he continued. "We don’t put up with that stuff.
“That’s just the way it is. You step up. You’re a UFC fighter and I don’t care who it is, you have to fight.”
by JOhn G on Jul 14, 2009 7:36 AM EDT up reply actions
cool
KOS/Fitch
Fitch/Swick
Swick/KOS
Silva/Machida
Diaz/Shields (I realize their not in UFC but would be nice)
by McArthur on Jul 14, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
they have already fought each other but i would like to see the new rashad and keith fight
by ufcaddict on Jul 14, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The statement is true about both fighters.
It’s a long shot but I would like to see Swick win against Kampman. After David Loiseau’s (still a huge fan) fight against Swick, he never looked the same . It would be great to see Georges get the “W” for the camp.
by RoJ on Jul 13, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What happened to losing and not making excuses.
- He cut too much weight, that is why we lost. (LAME)
Alves did last the whole fight and even got up from a take down in the 5th with under a minute to go, he has plenty of heart.
It will be tough to beat GSP unless you have an all around game and great wrestling. Strikers can’t beat him and wrestlers can’t beat him.
Sub guys may be able to. Who knows?
GSP has cleaned out 170 and Alves is prob still the 2nd best 170 out there. Time to face Anderson and get owned.
Here is how that fight goes.
GSP take down, GnP. GSP take down, GnP.
GSP gets caught. Game over. I don’t see GSP avoiding getting hit by Silva. He can’t be elusive and jab when the guy you are facing anderson. Very tough to pepper and move against a guy with a longer reach and better striking.
Anderson by TKO in 2nd or 3rd.
by Bennie Blanco on Jul 13, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. I dont see how a dude (Anderson) who moves up to 205 and KO’s guys there, and destroys MWs who are very dominant vs everyone else is going to lose to a 70 pounder. GSP has better wrestling, but Andy’s jits is PLENTY ENOUGH to neutralize that.
by Synyster on Jul 13, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say ‘plenty enough’. GSP’s takedowns and top game are insane. But I agree that Anderson’s reach and accuracy will probably catch Georges sooner or later in a 5-round fight. If I’m GSP I don’t want that fight. Testing yourself at a higher weight is one thing. Anderson Silva is another. As a fan, though? Damn rights I wanna see it.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 13, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
When Anderson decided to test the waters at 205, he didn’t jump right into the cage against Rampage or Shogun or a top-10 LHW. He warmed up on James Irvin to see how the extra weight feels in a fight. GSP should get the same opportunity.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 13, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Vs who? A ‘C’ level fighter like Irvin? Drew McFedries maybe? lol
by Synyster on Jul 13, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The extra weight won’t be much extra, he just won’t have to cut as much, so he will feel better than he ever has. GSP is not going to put on a bunch of useless fat. He will probably only put on 5-8 lbs of muscle if he’s lucky. If they wait to long one of them will lose and the fight will lose some of it’s hype.
by Gord on Jul 14, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree about the waiting too long part. I’d guess that GSP and Anderson will both have at least one relatively easy title defence. Then they’ll book it and give GSP some extra time to bulk up while staying lean.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 14, 2009 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I HONESTLY dont think that we will EVER see GSP vs. Anderson Silva. I dont think there is any shot in that happening.
by John G on Jul 14, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
And better striking goes down the toilet when worried about getting taken down. Silva’s TD defence sucks so GSP will take him down at will and tire him out, just like he does to everyone else. Alves might not be as deadly a striker as Silva, but he didn’t threaten GSP with any power strikes either. Silva won’t look like his normal self against GSP.
by Gord on Jul 13, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree Gord, but it will be harder to get close to Anderson for takedowns without getting caught with something nasty. Silva is so long and has such great timing and anticipation – as a huge GSP fan, I have serious concerns about GSP staying awake for five rounds against the Spider.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 13, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Silva is so bloody quick. He can clip GSP and lay him out anytime. I sort of hope the fight doesn’t happen. Just leave it as bar chatter.
As for Alves, save the excuse making and just work on your takedown defense. You can tell the guy “is the future”.
by Mammas Boy on Jul 14, 2009 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
He did shrug off i believe 3 of GSP’s takedowns which is much better then most. He also popped right back up the first 2 or 3 rounds for most of the takedowns which was far better then most have done. I unfortunatly think that GSP is just light years ahead of everyone in that weight class. I think Fitch gave him the best match to date. Although Fitch got caught a lot more then Alves. This fight was boring. I used to love how exciting watching GSP was, now I kind of dread it. Now I just watch GSP matches in hopes of seeing him getting caught. Alves even lost the stand up battle. He was gun shy and did not look no where near as hungry as he had in the past. If any excuses are to be made it should be that Alves was afraid to commit and pull the trigger. GSP had him beat before the bell even rang.
by Da Monkey on Jul 14, 2009 7:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Alves was scared to commit because of what happened any time he tried to land a big strike. He ended up on his back. All this weight cutting stuff must have always been a problem. Difference is, Thiago usually finished fights early and everything he had was neutralized. Besides, Thiago didn’t look real tired at the end of the 5th…His hands were up and he was moving forward. He couldn’t get a GSP on one leg for 2+ rounds.
by Shadyone33 on Jul 14, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
In Thiago’s OWN 100 blog……..HE was saying how easy the weight cut was this time?? GO ahead back and read some interviews where he was asked about how his weight was and the cut, as well as, his video blog, he SAID IT WAS EASY
Now, his coaches and camp making excuse for his lack of explosiveness? WTF GSP would of finished him , IF he didnt get injured. HE nearly did it before he got hurt. Then in the 4th and 5th he didnt do much damage, he SIMPLY controlled the fight.
by fightfan on Jul 14, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
All this tells me is that Thiago is really too big for the 170lb weight class. Either he can’t make weight (Hughes was a fool for taking that fight), or the extreme weight cut zaps his abilities. Move up to 185 and take your Spida-Lumps with the rest of the sukkas, Thiago!
by BigRedOne on Jul 14, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Hughes was really left with no option BigRed. I mean they were the main event. Hughes was in a extremely shitty position, because say he turned it down? A lot of people would say “Thiago didnt make weight, Hughes had no obligation to fight” but IMO even MORE people would say “Hughes is a pvssy and fvcked up this event”.
by WB on Jul 14, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree. Hughes was in a much worse spot. If he didn’t take the fight, that PPV was pretty much done.
by Shadyone33 on Jul 14, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
great point, fully agree, alves should fight at 185, even still, at this point in his career , gsp would still dominate alves,as a wrestler myself (long ago, but once a wrestler always a wrestler, i cut 15 to 18 lbs, and fought at the cut weight, as weigh in was day of meet most of the time. you do not cut muscle, you cut fluid, once you make weight and hydrate , with in an hour if you can drink a gallon of water , you will gain 4 to 5 lbs back. the key is to be about 4 to 5 lbs heavy a couple of weeks out. in 24 hrs you can drop that and not be affected at all. it comes down to disipline, gsp is, alves isnt, end of story.
by daz on Jul 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Also Thiago served a suspension for using diuretics to make weight before.
The man either needs to cut back on the weight lifting and get smaller or bite the bullet and be a middle weight…
by tamman2000 on Jul 14, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
here comes the excuses, notice that even fighting at 50% with a groin pull for half the fight, gsp toyed with alves. alves trainer is delusional he will never beat gsp, just to strong, fast, and athletic for slow, t-rex armed alves
by dtoto on Jul 14, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point. Talk about losing explosiveness. GSP couldn’t sit at the table at the press conference without grimacing but still took Alves down at will and completely dominated him.
by DSmith on Jul 14, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
admitting he will lose to Alves? GSP just tooled “the chosen one, the man who wants to be the man”, give me a break, weight cut please….
by Robert(1) on Jul 14, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, it’s nobody’s fault but Thiago’s if he had to cut too much…he had all the time he should have needed!
by allamerican on Jul 14, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
There kinda looks like some sour grapes in that comment. So, if he hadn’t cut so much weight, he would have won? Not likely. GSP was injured, could hardly stand on his leg after the fight, and he still beat him in rounds 4 and 5.
by Freddy on Jul 14, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves would be a tiny MW. He is 5’9 and has short arms. He would definitely get owned at 185. GSP probably cut just as much weight as he did in the week leading up to the fight. He just needs to lose a tiny bit of muscle and lean up a bit and he’s fine at 170.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 13, 2009 11:19 PM EDT reply actions
I thought everyone was excited about him not being so heavy the week before the fight. Now that he lost, the “great” weight cut was why he lost. Gahh. He lost because GSP dominated him. Not because of the weight cut. Alves looked in great shape, and didn’t gas through all five rounds.
Excuses says I.
by Synyster on Jul 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think it’s an excuse, he has a hard time cutting weight in the. It’s also his coaches responsibilty to have soltuions to those problems. can’t find the problem, can’t execute the solution, maybee you’re claire-voiant.
Cuting weight is just as important and hard to learn as one’s ground game or striking. I don’t see this as an excuse, just fact.
Castano is there for his fighter, and making sure that the public is aware that he is partly responsibe for Thiago’s loss is part of his job. I would hire them do a tour at my gym…If I owned one.
by RoJ on Jul 13, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I do agree with you RoJ, but everyone was clamoring about how the weight cut wouldn’t affect Thiago in the fight, and from the looks of it, it didn’t. Even if I was looking for a ‘reason’ as to why Alves didn’t win, I would never have thought the weight cut.
by Synyster on Jul 13, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
he cant say the real weekness, then fighters will expolit that weekness.
by RoJ on Jul 14, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves has a very good sprawl. We saw it once or twice in this fight and several times against Hughes, Parisyan and Kos. Alves got taken down because GSP’s takedowns are unstoppable.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves was definitely dominated in the fight. I’ll still give Alves credit though for showing decent vs a GREAT champ on a big stage. Provided he stays at 170 where he belongs, Alves has the potential to up his game even more, and there should be more title shots in his future.
As for the weight cutting issue, someone correct me if I’m wrong here. For some of these guys, like Alves, who end up cutting around 30 pds to make weight, I believe the mistake is getting that heavy between fights. It seems to me the whole process of cutting that high of % of body wt in a relatively short time leaves too much potential of losing strength and explosiveness during the process. Wouldn’t Alves be better served by managing his weight more strictly between fights and limiting the amount he has to cut?
by CL on Jul 14, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
It is an excuse RoJ, whichever way you put it…
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves didn’t looked gassed or weakened during the fight at all. He looked broken, like a man who just realized he has no chance..but whatever. Keep hope alive Thiago.
by DSmith on Jul 14, 2009 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
It will never make a difference between these two, unfortunately for Alves, GSP has his number. I am really looking forward to the rematch between Alves and Fitch. That is going to be a great fight.
by DownUnder on Jul 13, 2009 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
Huh????
Alves just needs to continue to work hard and improve his all around game especially that wrestling, its time for him and Fitch to rematch!
by Khaos_Warrior on Jul 13, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
John McCarthy: “Let’s get it on”!
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Excuses do we really wanna hear your excuses for losing the fight? Just admit that gsp was the better man that night and get back in the freakin gym. Did alves lose any of his explosiveness in his fight with koscheck or karo? Props to alves for going 5 rounds but your trainer needs to shut his mouth.
by desperus on Jul 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah excuses excuses even if they were to fight again GSP would destoy him again he has no chance.
by Adam on Jul 13, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Alves needs to work on his sprawl and his wrestling and he’ll be good to go.
by rockwell on Jul 14, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves is young and has a ton of potential he’ll be on top of the division before he is done!!
by TheDragon on Jul 13, 2009 11:25 PM EDT reply actions
Sounds like a lot of excuses to me, but Alves is way better off staying as a WW. He’ll never beat GSP, but I think he won’t get too far at MW. At WW, however, he could really demolish people. I would like to see Fitch – Alves II. Alves is a different fighter than when he lost to Fitch, and I think it would be an interesting fight this time around.
by pud333 on Jul 13, 2009 11:27 PM EDT reply actions
Thiago can beat St. Pierre???? Why don’t we try starting with “Thiago can win one round against St. Pierre” or “Thiago can take a minute off St. Pierre”. Baby steps boys, you have to walk before you can run, even if you’re racing a one legged GSP.
That’s how we do.
by Hal on Jul 13, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions
Well if he lost weight to fast then i think he is in the wrong weight class. he should move up to middle weight. He couldnt even get close to weight in the hughes fight. He’s just to big for 170 maybe.
by mak on Jul 13, 2009 11:28 PM EDT reply actions
“Thiago can beat St. Pierre….” I just don’t understand. In order to even compete with St. Pierre first you need to learn how to wrestle. St. Pierre put on a take down clinic against Thiago. Second I would probably figure out how to maintain my diet better so the cut won’t be so strength and energy sapping. This is the biggest fight of your life and the fans are supposed to buy these excuses. I think I probably would have made something else up as a response to being totally shut out on the biggest fight of my life. What a joke.
by graymg1 on Jul 13, 2009 11:55 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah I agree gray…It’s so funny how every time you saw Alves in training prior to the fight he was always hitting the mitts or doing some type of stand up. Same with BJ and Kosheck and other guys GSP has beat.
Alot of these guys just want the easy knockout or tko but quickly forget this is MMA. If they all had the wrestling that GSP has they COULD have a good chance of knocking GSP out, but all they do is work on one part of their game and they pay dearly.
All Thiago should have been working on was his wrestling and takedown defense and it would have been a good fight. But instead Georges schooled him as most of us predicted he would and now there really isn’t anyone in the WW division who can touch him. Whoever fights GSP next…please for the love of GOD work on your freaking wrestling!!!!
by MMA Fanatic on Jul 14, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
GSP should fight Dan Henderson next, not the spider…I reckon GSP should fight the 2nd best in MW first, don’t go straight to the title, Silva will kill GSP. Henderson VS GSP will be good fight at MW…Dan is great wrestler and great striker and they both similar high/size.
by Tim-chida on Jul 14, 2009 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if that is the case and Alves lost some of his explosiveness, a pulled groin didn’t exactly make GSP more explosive for half the fight.
by Gord on Jul 14, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions
excuses excuses….gsp was the better fighter that night PERIOD
george says it best…it’s not the best fighter that wins but the one who fights the best that night (although imo gsp is the better fighter)
it’s more alves choking and being scared of georges than him losing explosiveness
by Rob on Jul 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT reply actions
Nah, it all boils down to Georges greasing again. Who can possibly compete when GSP constantly cheats? :)
by BigRedOne on Jul 14, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s a serious question… Is anyone EVER going to lose to St. Pierre and not make an excuse other than the fact that GSP is the #1 Welterweight (possibly #1 pound for pound fighter) in the world? There is absolutely no shame in losing to George St. Pierre. Anybody he fights has a chance at catching him in a split second of bad timing and end the fight but other than this extremely rare occurence, he will not regularly lose to anyone in his weight class. He has demonstrated this over his entire career and yet we still hear the same crap over and over. If Thiago wants to fight at Welterweight then his trainer needs to stop using weight problems as an excuse. It was entirely his choice to bulk up like a mini-Brock Lesnar and if he finds it hard to cut weight then he needs move up to 185 or lose some muscle with dieting and cardio. Then he will still be large but gain some mobility and an easier cut for each fight.
by sdow on Jul 14, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions
this is just the camp talking .. I am sure Alves won’t make excuses like these himself .. camps tend to do that .. Greg Jackson did the same thing when Rashad got owned by Machida … its just a strategy to keep their fighter feeling better about themselves and keep training at the same place.
by commoner on Jul 14, 2009 12:34 AM EDT reply actions
good comments “commoner” unlike some nut hangers,
Alves always was a standup guy, even raise St. Pierre hand at the end. I do think he can beat St. Pierre by the fact that he kept getting up and possibly has the strength to match St. Pierre. Standup advantage Alves. The ground goes to St. Pierre. Alves needs to have a better game plan to somehow stays on his feet. Easier said than done b/c St. Pierre sets up his takedowns so well, and let’s not forget he torn his groin somewhere in the mid period. Alves to me is a clear cut 2nd best 170 like some of you suggested. Alves vs Fitch II indeed!!
by luke dang on Jul 14, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves has the standup advantage??? are you joking, did you watch that fight at all. GSP dominated all aspects including the standup.
As far as seeing GSP vs the Spider, I’m not sure I want to see it. Silva is a huge MW. I don’t think reach would be a problem, as GSP is only an 1.5 inch smaller, but the overall size would probably be a huge factor as both are skilled guys. I’m not saying I wouldn’t pay to watch it, but it truley would be GSP’s “toughest test”.
by MM_Eh on Jul 14, 2009 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude the Spider is 6.2" !!! He is more than 1.5 inches taller than GSP.
by b-real on Jul 14, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say he wasn’t taller…look at their respective reach.
by MM_Eh on Jul 14, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
only reason alves stood up, was after GSP pulled his groin muscle, prior to that alves was nailed to the floor. It seems people somehow get the impression, that alves being heavier than GSP would make him stronger.
by dtoto on Jul 14, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
is this the first time the weight cut has affected his explosivness? sounds like a timely excuse imo
by bigjman on Jul 14, 2009 12:35 AM EDT reply actions
excuses, he can’t beat gsp and hes not his hardest test to date..
by guyverbob on Jul 14, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions
That is one AWESOME PIC!!!!!
Excuses, Excuses….I remember when an interviewer asked Thiago if the weight cut was hard and he said it was a piece of cake. If he won they would have said the weight cut easy and that Alves was just too strong for GSP but the bottom line was GSP had too many tools in his arsenal to keep Alves off balance the whole fight.
Right now, I don’t see any big threat to GSP in the welterweight division. I want to see GSP fight the spider. Although I would love to see Hendo or Maia take a crack at him also.
by Skelow on Jul 14, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions
There is a few comments in here regarding a potential fight with Anderson Silva and St Pierre, one in particular is that Anderson’s Jiu Jitsu would negate St Pierre’s wrestling? How does that statement ring true, BJ Penns BJJ and overall grappling ability is on another level in comparison to Anderson Silva and GSP made easy work of his rubber guard, and transitioning with no problem at all. I think a more valid point would be Henderson V Silva, and how Anderson looked comfortable against Henderson (with Henderson being world class, greco roman)..even still Grecos bread and butter is in the clinch. I really think people underestimate GSP ability to score the takedown, and how advanced his top game is, control, transitions and GNP. I think it would be an amazing fight – would love to see it – id like to see GSP defend once more (if its succesful) move up and fight someone at MW
by SiamMMA on Jul 14, 2009 12:56 AM EDT reply actions
GSP should Dan Henderson next at MW…Dan is good wrestler and great striker..
by Tim-chida on Jul 14, 2009 3:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Excuses, excuses, excuses. They can make up all the excuses in the world, but the fact is that there’s still a huge gap between GSP’s and Thiago’s game? Jon Fitch seems a more legit and dangerous contender thatn Alves IMO.
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions
Wait, I have an excuse why Alves got beaten. It’s the “grease”. LMFAO
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitch is very dangerous to anyone but GSP. Alves was the most dangeropus test for GSP because the argument could be made that he was actually better than Georges at a crucial component of MMA – striking – and that he had the one-punch power to finish the fight.
Fitch’s forte is wrestling, something GSP does much better than Fitch or anybody else at 170, and Fitch is not known for his power or ability to finish fights. Alves seemed the more dangerous opponent.
I know I don’t want to see GSP/Fitch again. It is pointless. At least Swick has reach and fast hands and a puncher’s chance.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 14, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point Mr.Jackson. But did you see Fitch’s striking against Paulo T? Looked crisp! HE now has the tools in the stand-up department. Should be interesting to see a rematch[only if Fitch improves by leaps and bounds since their last fight]. I’d bet my money on Fitch, but GSP possibly still takes this 4 out of 5.
by Syd[a.k.a."The Negation"] on Jul 14, 2009 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Fitch’s stand-up looked OK against Thiago’s, but so did Koscheck’s. Paulo is not a particularly educated striker, to say the least. Fitch’s striking is not on GSP’s level, and even if it was he’d still get dominated on the ground.
by Jeremyjackson on Jul 14, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
LAME!!!! LOL alves was bragging about his great weight cut. It seems everyone who fights gsp just had a bad night, didn’t show up etc etc. Can’t these guys admit he was just the better fighter???
by nathan on Jul 14, 2009 1:16 AM EDT reply actions
NEWS
NEW TREE FIGHT IN UFC
Cro Cop potpisao ugovor s UFC-om za tri nove borbe
Cro Cop potpisao ugovor s UFC-om za tri nove borbe
Cro Cop potpisao ugovor s UFC-om za tri nove borbe
Cro Cop potpisao ugovor s UFC-om za tri nove borbe
by riba on Jul 14, 2009 1:45 AM EDT reply actions
Cute. What is that, Croatian? What’s the point of it supposed to be, you get to laugh at all the people who won’t understand the “big news” or something?
Anyway:
Cro Cop signed (a contract?) with UFC for three new (fights?).
That about right?
by MattNY on Jul 14, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Cro Cop potpisao ugovor s UFC-om za tri nove borbe
3 FIGHT IN UFC
by riba on Jul 14, 2009 1:46 AM EDT reply actions
Amen. It makes me want to throw up. You lost, you are not as good, deal with it like a man.
by TheDarkOne on Jul 14, 2009 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Alves lacks dimension and the physical attributes to be a GSP class fighter.
You can close this topic…I have spoken.
(hehe)
by Ding Ding on Jul 14, 2009 2:05 AM EDT reply actions
Thiago “Shi tzu” Alves got beat bigtime. time to move on – next!
by MMA040 on Jul 14, 2009 2:13 AM EDT reply actions
To be fair this is one of Alves’ coaches talking, not Alves himself. We shouldn’t be saying Alves is making excuses until we hear him say it himself. It doesn’t shock me that one of his coaches is gonna stick up for him.
Also, I don’t think it’s crazy for him to say that Alves could have beaten GSP. Where are all the Alves fans who said that he would KO the champ, Jesus stand up for your fighter for crying out loud.
by WarGSP on Jul 14, 2009 2:25 AM EDT reply actions
All the time – some of them dont know they’re excuses
by paniczoo on Jul 14, 2009 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea he survived a lay n pray fest by GSP. This time he prolly wasn’t greased though. Kos, Fitch, and now Thiago. GSP really isn’t finishing top tier WW contenders these days. Matt Serra and BJ Penn are light weights. Besides GSP was cheating in the Penn fight. Matt Hughes isn’t in his prime anymore either. George certainly isn’t pound for pound best and he would be foolish to try and tangle with Anderson. However, I do give Thiago props for getting up and still pressing.
by xxBAxx816 on Jul 14, 2009 4:01 AM EDT reply actions
I think Thiago is a little bit of a tweener but I think the 185 guys are a little too big….not necessarily in weight but in length. I still think 170 is his class but he needs to manage his weight better so the cuts aren’t so difficult. He’s a young guy and still the #2 guy at WW I believe. Now he clearly knows what he has to work on to compete more with GSP. Takedown defense is huge but GSP is so good at it, he may never be able to defend it. I thought his reaction after the fight was interesting when he was walking down the hall to his coaches. Man, the guy was upset about his missed opportunity. Makes me appreciate how serious he took the title shot. He’ll be back. I liked how he raised GSP’s hand after the fight. Both guys are class.
by sudnvictory on Jul 14, 2009 5:23 AM EDT reply actions
This was Alves 1st 5 rounder so they worked on alot mo0re cardio from what hes used to , for trainign for a 3 rounder… So in his defence he trained too hard which is understandable doing your 1st 5 rounder…He looked smaller than usual look at the Kosheck fight…If Alves n GSP fought again it will be more competitive because he was getting up a few times which no other fighter does aganist GSP…Theys light at the end of the tunnell!!!
by Jugga on Jul 14, 2009 6:27 AM EDT reply actions
only time he was getting up, was after gsp pulled his groin muscle, PRIOR TO THAT, he was glued to the matt. I think GSP even at 50% would beat alves easily, way too athletic, stronger and faster than alves.
by dtoto on Jul 14, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you are forgetting that GSP fought half the fight with a torn groin. In a rematch it is more probable that Alves would get finished, not win the fight. You obviously haven’t pulled your groin. If Alves was close to GSP he would have finished an injured GSP, not gotten dominated.
by Gord on Jul 16, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a lot of respect for Alves, but to say the cut slowed him done after he said things were going very well is simply an excuse.
by SilasM on Jul 14, 2009 6:51 AM EDT reply actions
This is ridiculous. His coach attributes his loss to a difficult weight cut? Why not just accept Alves had no answer for GSP’s takedowns. If you can’t handle the cut, compete at middleweight – end of story.
by Jase on Jul 14, 2009 7:36 AM EDT reply actions
The only thing that interests me right now is when is GSP going to be fight ready. And even though they both deserve it, who is he going to fight after Swick/Kampmann – not that I am looking past them………………. but I am.
by WB on Jul 14, 2009 8:23 AM EDT reply actions
I’d admit he shouldn’t be crying about losing and cutting too much weight. I mean he knew about the fight and if it is so hard for him to cut weight step up to 185. But that being said Alves did not look like his self. I know a lot of that had to do with GSP but he got up off the ground pretty easy at first. His strikes just didn’t look the same.
by Anderson Silva on Jul 14, 2009 8:59 AM EDT reply actions
I think Alves could definitely stay at Welterweight. He is going to have to sacrifice some muscle mass to make the cut easier, though. It definitely isn’t impossible…I think he’s too small for Middleweight.
by MMAMoneyLine on Jul 14, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions
Im still waiting to see GSP start striking agaian…The takedowns and wrestling is getting boring for me. UFC 100 biggest fights were the same. Dry humping sessions. Alves was clearly not in danger when GSP was on top. GSP was just moving around alot so the ref wouldn’t stand them up.
Message fpr GSP, Stop peing a little pussy and strike you homo. Show us that you are as versatile as they say you are. Yeah you can wrestle and take everyone down, we get it. Is that all you are going to do from now on??? I hope not !
by danny_c on Jul 14, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions
Excuses, man up you were completely dominated by a superior athlete who beat you with a torn abductor muscle. The reason he was slow in his punches and kicks was because George did the same thing to him as he did to BJ, take him down and wear him out. Carrying that much muscle requires oxygen and George zapped your body of it. That’s called a good game plan.
by Jason on Jul 14, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions
Of course the weight cut was hard, Albves is too big. Did you see how deep his chest was? Hes a MW trying to fight WW. The same thing happened when wandy fought franklin. However, if they lose the weight then they wont have the power advantage.
by Bobby on Jul 14, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions
Man I love how when all these fighters lose the belt fight to any other champ of a weight class the excuse train doesn’t seem to come as fast, but when its gsp 4 some reason right away oh he greased oh I was too light, man why does the coach say that stuff. Its not like gsp is a villian or mean guy. He is incredible and there is no need to say anything other then man that guy is just too good right now. The last thing gsp will do is rub it in. I mean the guy will hold the arm of the loser up during official decision half the time after he worked em over. He’s all class its about time his opponents and there staff start showing that respect. Alves lost weight too fast? Ummm last I heard gsp walked on him with a torn groin not to mention an elbow that looked like it had a tennis ball in it. Go to 185 then see what spider has to say about ur weight ha ha
by Daniel worby on Jul 14, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions
Oh and one more thing. Ppl are saying alves didn’t look like himself? Name the last guy gsp fought who did look like ‘himself’ cuz I don’t remember. Gsp Hughes 1? Serra gsp 1? Nope that my friends was gsp not looking like himself. The guy is Superman, he is unstoppable @ ww and its time to get used to it. U can all h8 the nicest most talented man in mma and build excuses for ur fighters everytime they lose or you can just suck up ur pride join the man who could have told a packed American stadium booing him to f*ck off I’m taking this belt to canada, but instead chose to say "don’t look @ this as me taking the belt from the united states look @ it as me keeping the belt in north America. That’s a true warrior and a great man. Gsp 4 ever
by Daniel worby on Jul 14, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions
How the hell was the weight cut too much? Alves has been fighting at 170 ever since he came into the UFC. If making the cut to a weight that he’s supposed to make with ease is too much for him to handle, boo fucking hoo. Obviously he needs to move to 185 or STFU.
by Kimura88 on Jul 14, 2009 10:38 AM EDT reply actions
gsp looked just as big as alves did haha. horrible excuse. maybe alves should move to 185…a dry, less competitive weight class. alves got his a$$ whooped for 25 mins…deal with it.
by lefthook187 on Jul 14, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions
In my opinion the top 6 WWs other than GSP in the UFC right now are Jon Fitch, Thiago Alves, Josh Kozcheck, Matt Hughes, Matt Serra and BJ Penn (if you count him as a welterweight) coincidently that happens to be GSPs last 6 opponents. I would say he’s cleaned out a division.
by GSP4Prez on Jul 14, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions
I knew I would get to see the Pitbull with his beaten face after this fight. KNOCK OUT the man you wish Pitbull. Thats the same DREAM every other Welter Weight in the world has right now. GSP true champion cleaned out the entire division!!!!
by Cory on Jul 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions
GSP needs ti impressive me with a KO, then i will be a fan again. Anderson Silva is another that lost my vote.
by danny_c on Jul 14, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
This is such b.s. If Thiago can beat GSP he should have done it. I love it when people say; “yeah next time were gonna get him” what do you mean next time. You just had your shot and you got your ass beat. GSP didn’t have a mark on him. If Thiago can’t make weight then move the hell up to 185. Beat GSP my ass.
by Wes on Jul 14, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
Shoulda, coulda, woulda… He had a chance to beat GSP and he didn’t. That’s all the matters. If he can’t make weight correctly then move up to 185.
by Rich on Jul 14, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions
Everyone knows me knows I am a huge GSP fan. Plus he’s a hometown cat. But I really like Alves. I like his fighting style & know this cat will do some serious damage in the UFC. I do think that 170 is a little light for him & I believe that the weightloss had some influence on the outcome. Even if it didn’t though, GSP would still dominate.
by neeko on Jul 14, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
xxBAxx816 You obviously have some weird hate thing for gsp, gsp OUT STRUCK all the guys you mentioned, he knocked alves and fitch on there ass…when was the last time that happened?. The fact he couldn’t finish alves,koscheck or fitch is more of a testament to how tough they are not that gsp wasn’t trying to finish.
by nathan on Jul 14, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions
They need to take responsibility for the fight they brought to GSP. Alves never once tried for a takedown or a submission. He is a great fighter, but GSP knew that he was fighting a straight muay thai fighter. He didn’t have to worry about half the stuff that Alves did. The weight cut may have been an issue but it was definitely not the whole story. Alves would be twice the problem to handle if he was not one dimensional.
by Pink Ferret on Jul 14, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions
Ya that Daniel worby sure brought up and touched on all the valid points. Good job him
by Daniel worby on Jul 15, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
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