Agreed Caesar.

Hughes, Liddell, Wanderlei, Fedor…

All 4 of those fighters were some of the most dominant fighters ever, all of them but one have been knocked off the top by new generation fighters. Guys with natural athletic ability, fighting at their correct weight class, with extremely well rounded skills.

Fedor is truly The Last Emperor, but unfortunately I think someone will soon dethrone him due to his size and reach disadvantages.
Size didn’t matter before, nowdays you need every single advantage you can get, and natural physical advantage is something that you can’t get in training.

I really think Lesnar is just the beginning of the real change that’s about to happen in the HW division. You’ll need to be over 265lb to compete with what’s coming.

I hope I’m wrong and Fedor puts Lesnar to sleep for the first time in his career. But I doubt it…

Caesar, where is Brutus? I have a Knife to give him…..

“Hughes, Liddell, Wanderlei, Fedor…”

I think grouping Fedor in with these guys is a huge mistake. there are a lot of other factors that contributed to their decline, namely their inability to adapt to what MMA has become. Liddell is a counter puncher but he’s old and just a little bit slower, rather than try a different approach and re-vamping his fighting style he does the same old thing. Hughes’ whole game is based on his ability to take daown and control his opponents, he has an awesome top game, but thats it. if he can’t take a fighter down and keep them there then it’s lights out. Wanderlei (as much as i love him and his style)fights to knockout or be knocked out, he could take a guy down and submit him but he chooses not to and sometimes pays the price.

Fedor is a complete mixed martial artist, he devastates you on the feet and when you fall he follows you right to the ground and starts working his grappling game. there is absolutely nothing other than the era they fought in that makes him anything like the other fighters you’re grouping him with.

Cannibal,
I think you’re absolutely right about the 3 fighters I mentioned, but I have to say, just as Liddell’s counter punching was his style and he was not able to re-vamp his style due to getting old and slowing down, Fedor has been using true MMA his whole career. that’s been his style, that’s what got him his wins, and it’s taken him a long way, but my point is that just like the rest of the guys, he won’t be able to adapt to the new HW generation, not due to his lack of desire to learn new tricks but due to his natural size, not that he wouldn’t if he could, it’s just that the time when you could be his size and destroy 300lb guys is gone, the new gen Heavyweights will be like Brock and even bigger, faster, and most likely smarter.
It kinda reminds me of when Hughes and Gracie fought, that fight just showed that times changed, and I think Brock is showing that same type of change.

I’m an open minded person and Im willing to say you might be completely right, and I hope you are, but my mind tells me otherwise.
I’m still trying to deside whether I’m gonna drink a Bud, Coors, or my own urine tonight… all 3 would get me wasted…

I dont care where Fedor fights or who they match him up against…He wont be losing any time soon!

I have a feeling Dana has been waiting till he had someone in the UFC who he thought could beat Fedor before really trying to bring him over. Dana and his damn ego… He’s usually right though. I’m no Brock fan, but I think he will be too much for Fedor. I would pay to be proven wrong cause I love Fedor.

Cannibal- You also left out one detail that seperates the other 3 fighters from Fedor, and that is the fact that Liddell, Wanderlei, and Hughes all fought in stacked divisions, while Fedor has fought in the worst division in mma. Fedor is a great fighter, but I also have to say that he has not faced the toughest competition in mma. He has quite a few cans under his belt, and even his most respectable wins in Pride were against CroCop and Big Nog, two guys who have not been very impressive since the collapse of Pride. Big Tim was only a champion because the talent pool was shallow as hell at the time, and that basically leaves you with Arlovski. I was actually quite impressed with his win over Arlovski, and I think that was one of his most impressive wins to date. Barnett is respectable enough, but again, not a world beater by any stretch. I think that if Fedor really wants to be called the best p4p fighter, he needs to beat the best competition, and like it or not, that is in the UFC. I know some people will disagree with me on this, but I don’t think Fedor can dominate guys like Carwin and Lesnar, and to take it a step further, I don’t think he would dominate in 205 either.

Shadow, i’ve gotta call BS here. the fact is that as soon as Fedor demolishes someone people jump up to point out their weaknesses and faults. Fedor fights guys that are legitimate top 10 contenders on most rankings and only after he handles them do they fall on hard times. Cro Cop was destroying people when Fedor crushed him, Nog was taking arms home with him when Fedor crushed him, both Arlovski and Tim were recent former UFC champs and consensus top 5 HW’s. So to say after the fact that they are just cans is just plain ignorant. If Fedor came to the UFC today and demolished Carwin i’m sure you would say well Carwin is inexperienced and not a top ranked HW. If he locked up Lesnar’s arm (which is exactly what would happen) after Lesnar scored the big takedown you would call it a lucky break because Lesnar was just about to destroy him. Fedor could sh!t gold and you guys would just complain because it came out of his @ss. And if you really want to compare the competition between these guys you’ll find that they weren’t just fighting top guys, Chucks legendary winning streak was against nothing but wrestlers, he got eaten alive as soon as he stepped in with a good technical striker, Wandy (as much as i love him) was fed a bunch of japanese nobodys with some occassional talent sprinkled in because the japanese wanted desperately for a japanese fighter to avenge Saku and take the title. and Hughes, well besides winning the title while unconscious fought a ton of mid level B fighters during his reign, not that he didn’t have a few really talented opponents, he did, but so did Fedor, the difference is Fedor won all of his fights against top guys, so while Hughes may have fought more top fighters he also lost the majority of those fights. so i fail to see how that matters. Newton x2, Riggs, Trigg, Hallman x2 (losses) an old @ss Gracie. some stiff competition there and what about his tougher opponents, Alves loss KO, GSP 1 for 3, BJ Penn 1 for 2 (if you even want to count that as a win)

I am not trying to say that Crocop and Big Nog are cans, just that they aren’t the type of competition in the heavyweight division that some of the other fighters faced in their divisions. Look at someone like St Pierre. He has beaten Hughes 2 times, Penn 2 times, Alves, Fitch, and anyone else they have thrown at him. If it wasn’t for the fluke lose to Serra, I don’t see how anyone could say he is not number 1 p4p.

Everyone says that Chuck only beat good wrestlers and BJJ artists, so I guess that means that Overeem, Vitor,and Wandy all suck.

Again, I am not saying that Fedor is not a great fighter, but I am just not sold on him being the best. Hopefully he will come to the UFC, and then we will know for sure.

dude what are you smoking? Cro Cop and Nog were the best at the time, ranked higher than anyone in the UFC HW division. I’ll agree that because of his wins GSP should be considered as a top P4P fighter but who the hell is talking about GSP? Besides the fact still remains that he has a KO loss on his record and a submission loss, when was the last time Fedor was submitted or KO’d. and i was pretty clear in saying ‘during Chucks legendary winning streak’ he beat nothing but grapplers but if you really want to know yes i think Overeem is way over-rated, Vitor was already a shell of his former self after getting bludgeoned by Randy and as far as Wandy vs Chuck i was far more impressed with Wand, Chuck was ready to fall over by the end of the fight and had to lay on Wand to keep from getting cracked. Basically you are just holding Fedor up to a different standard than other fighters simply because he doesn’t fight in the UFC and you’ve bought it hook line and sinker that in order to be #1 you have to be in the UFC. in most cases i would probably agree because the best fighters tend to be in the UFC but Fedor has made a career of manhandling guys that were considered at the time to be at the top of the division and he makes it look easy, so people who don’t know any better assume ‘hey that guy couldn’t have been that good’.
you guys crack me up!

brock is a joke, u must be one of those tito fans? and then you go on to say that fedor is overrated?
what the f is this.. and Cogito comes in with why do you hate Fedor to who?

great fight and it would be huge! give Brock some more experience and it could last for a round or 2..

you.make.it really hard. to read.your posts with. no spaces.and periods in the. middle of.sentences

you don’t have to like somebody because they’re good…
If that was the case then Matt Hughes would have been my favorite back in the day..

Your post makes less sense than jays. I asked why he hates Fedor cause he said he never roots for Fedor. Obviously that means he’s not a fan of Fedor. Who said I was telling him to like Fedor as well, I was merely asking why he hated him as a follow up to his post, to get a little controversy and conversation going, but great analysis there doc. btw I think Jay ment to say Fedor is a joke, not Brock.

So many people have just hopped on the Brock bandwagon. Not me. Don’t get me wrong, he is huge, powerful, and his strategy with Mir was quite intelligent. But IMO, Fedor ain’t Mir!!!! I honestly think it might make it to the second round before Fedor knocks him out.

agreed chef…but I don’t think we’ll have to wait for Fedor cause what I saw last night makes me believe that Carwin will be able to finish Brock

WAR CARWIN!!!!!!

I think it’s an incredible potential fight. Lesnar’s size and sheer power will give anyone problems, especially an undersized HW like Fedor. Fedor’s sheer mastery of MMA and crazy hand speed will be things Lesnar has not came close to seeing. Much like last night, it would not a be long fight, and would come down to who is able to first gain an advantage. The strengths are so extreme that the first one to capitalize will put the other guy in a spot they won’t recover from. Hope it happens.

name one good fight that fedor has had in the last 10 years..brock will be a champ for a very long time…..go watch some of his ncaa bouts..pure talent.and we all like to talk shit to each outher.because we are true mma fans.later brothers.

i was on the brock bandwagon back when he was doin the shooting star press off the turnbuckle onto kurt angle at wrestlemania…

people were always quick to discredit brock because he was in the wwe…but no one tried to discredit rich for being a math teacher…stupidity..

fedor has had 30 fights…brock has had 5…people say fedor is the best in the world, but was fedor after only 5 fights as dangerous as brock is now after 5 fights? doubtful..

brock could take chuck norris…

ive noticed a trend here…brock haters are machida nuthuggers…so how bout this…

go get that towel that you use to clean yourself up with after jerking off to pics of machida….and use it to dry your tears from seeing brock lesnar retain his title last night….cause he he isnt losing it anytime soon..

truth

Randy and Mir both landed punches on Brock that looked like they hurt him. Fedor will highlight-reel that gigantic douchebag with a gruesome stiffenened-up KO.

Carwin will beat him to it. If Brock was getting tagged by Mir and wanted to take it to the ground, then, for sure, Carwin can put him away.

Who’s on board the Brock Lesnar Hatewagon with me?

make no mistake about it, Im a Brock fan because of who he is, not how he fights..

Carwin has the same/more power and they are the same size/weight. That’s best chance for Brock being beaten in the immediate future. CARWIN all the way!!!!

Well then your a fan of a fake. Dana himself said this is not how Brock is and he was confused as to why Brock made such a ridiculous display. Its because Brock was acting and not actually being himself. I’m tired of reading all theses tards posting that Brock was being himself. No he was picking up his character from the WWE. God please just stop watching MMA if your picking your fighters based on how they act after a fight. Looks like Brocks a real BA when he’s forced to apologize, but thats just how Brock roles. He don’t take nuffin from nobody… unless its the guy who pays him. Oh and his mommy too, his mommy can tell him what to do… BUT NOBODY ELSE!

Cogito yes i am a fan of who he is in the business, I don’t even know anything about who he or anyone else is in their personal lives… that’s why i get so shocked that people act like Tito in the business is the same guy in real life..

This is as determined as I’ve ever heard Dana in regard to the signing of Fedor. Maybe this will actually happen after Affliction’s event. God, that would be an awesome fight and it would do ridiculous numbers once the UFC hype department got their hands on Fedor and his highlight reel.

Agreed. It would be the biggest fight in UFC history in terms of sales potential. Based on Dana’s comments, I’m guessing he’s completely reversed field and will be rooting for Fedor big time in the August fight. Business is business, and Dana will be there checkbook in hand prepared for Fedor to fill in the blanks with virtually whatever it will take.

I’m thinking in the meantime, if Affliction puts on another show and Fedor beats Barnett and Overeem beats Werdum … then Affliction and Strikeforce could co-promote a Fedor/Overeem tilt. That would be fun.

I wish I knew you in real life so I could make fun of the way you look.

what if he’s a sexy dude though. then you’d look foolish

ovaries… ive been laughing at all the people picking bisping and alves to win for weeks! glad to see were on the same page… alves’ “great” takedown defense was a total facade put on by the ufc to hype this fight and unfortunately people bought into it and even nostradumas picked alves to win, which is sad… a gsp/henderson parlay woulda been money, wish i woulda put down some cheese on that!

I actually thought Alves’ ability to stand back up was outstanding and his TD defense wasn’t shabby either. It’s just silly to think that perhaps the most naturally gifted wrestler in MMA won’t be able to take a guy down.

I have no problem with him being big and strong. You don’t disrespect the hand that feeds you or your wife! Without people paying him for his size and speed, he’d be shoveling manure on a farm somewhere, problem is, he’d be enjoying it!

Nice to hear some agreement. It’s lonely these days to believe in things like honor.

Yeah Kev, I was like “wow, go ahead and disrespect the UFC and your wife for good measure.”

Ovaries, how can you talk about honor or respect when its clear from your posts that your morals dont even run as deep as the surface.
Your wish to see someone crippled in a car crash is far more objectionable than a fighter getting in another fighters face or making some rude jokes.
Im happy to see a guy like Brock in the mix, so tired of the no charizma champs like GSP, Silva and paper champ Fedor.
Can you imagine the shit Brock will talk after smashing Fedors head in!!! I cant wait for the river of tears from all you wussy nut hugging pricks. Yeeeehaaaaaaaa

Meth isn’t going anywhere anytime soon is it paniczoo?

Diceman – come out and say it man, you think Fedor will storm over Brock and finish him easy. Put it in writing so i can quote it while im laughing at you later. Or arent you so sure of yourself?

paniczoo,

That’s like when people who don’t believe in the death penalty or war claim that killing makes us just as bad as them. It’s dumb. Killing innocent people = murder. Killing the killers of innocent people = justice.

Brock Rushing into Mir’s face after he was beaten and defenseless makes Brock a bad person. I don’t view people with no moral fiber as people. They mine as well be insects to me. It’s why I sleep fine at night even though I know over 100 terrorists are dead b/c of my actions.

I’ve always been the guy that would never stand for being bullied. Even if I had to pick up a hammer or a bat. If I were beaten, then conceded, and a guy was coming to try to take the last of my dignity, I would do ANYTHING to make him regret it.

PanicZoo, So we have Brock Lesnar who is a huge, ugly, unsportsman-like, no class, poor loser douchebag. But you’re “glad to have him in the mix”. Says alot about the kind of shit-heap you are. Sounds like you’d be better off sittin in front of the TV watching old WWE reruns you silly clown. You know nothing about honor and respect. You’re a disgrace to mma fans everywhere.

Well god bless America! ;-)

Lesnar is literally giving the other fighters on the card more money!

you guys are sleeping on Carwin

or at least you will be till he finishes Cain

If anyone cares, Sherk’s taking on Tibau at 103. Yawn. If that show’s main card is full it’s looking like a Spike event.

horrible fight!.. no one wants to see any of those two, no offense but those guys are truly uninteresting!

That’s right Mac!! Carwin is the Great White Hope!!! He will de-throne cock lesnar!!!

Carwin definitely poses the biggest problems for Lesnar. He will neutrilize Brock’s strength, and the better mixed martial artist will win that fight. I wouldn’t bet either way on that fight.

sherk gets no love on this site! i dont understand why… the guy has amazing skills, always comes in great shape and ready to fight, never trash talks, hes a family man and he doesnt make much fighting for the ufc to support his family… how can u not respect a guy like that? then you got all these loser bj penn fans who worship a spoiled, fat, rich kid who NEVER trains 100% for his fights… i just dont get it!

jogging immediately after a fight!?! :lol:

fedor was at a large size disadvantage in almost all of his fights, and it never stopped him before. If you remember the fight with hong man choi, fedor got an armbar after having a 330 pound guy on his chest…He would finish lesnar in the first round, most likely submission.

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th – who knows what round it will end? But Fedor will finish Brock if they fight, count on it. Maybe in 2-3 years time Brock can make it a more competitive fight.

Don’t kid yourself guys; I’m here to do a little myth-busting for the slow learners here.

Fedor has had 31 fights. His opponents break down as follows.

- 15 were actually SMALLER than Fedor.

- 9 were similar in weight.

- 7 had a significant weight advantage.

What can we learn from this?

A. Fedor has had a size and weight advantage in over half of his fights

B. 78% of Fedors opponents were a similar size or smaller than him.

C. Of the 22% who had a weight advantage none are noted for their wrestling ability or ground grappling game:

1. Tim Sylvia
2. Hong-Man Choi
3. Mark Hunt
4. Zuluzhino
5. Semmy Schilt
6. Schall
7. Ogawa
(2 absolute cans, 2 kick boxers, a has been and 2 nobodies)
 
Add to that the fact than Fedor has been taken down and controlled at some point by nearly every decent wrestler he has faced (hell even Heath Herring put a sweep on him and controlled top position.) and that he has never fought in a cage and that Brock will have even better striking, gnp and submission defence by the time they fight and you see that it is a huge test for Fedor.

When Fedor joins the UFC in his first year he should fight Randy, Mir and Carwin and if he can get through them – feed him to Brock!

to grab a towel for your tears or to beat traffic?

actually, I was watching it at Hooter’s. And Hooter’s has beer and limited liquor. I balanced what would be more entertaining…and chose to go to a different bar with better booze. In hindsight…a wise move. and some of you guys keep telling me to quit crying and Lesnar is champ…blah, blah, blah. Yet not one of you thought for a second that 1) I thought Brock would win 2) while not really caring about either fighter, pulled for Brock. Why did I pull for Brock? B/c I hated Mir’s trash talk before hand..just like I couldn’t stand Brock’s antics after the fight.

I don’t think Mir and Brock are overhyped, both good fighters that deserve to be in the top ten HW. Mir has beaten as many of the current top ten guys as Fedor.
 
Fedor doesn’t have anywhere near the strength of Brock, his best assets are speed, technique and flexibility. Fedor has been controlled on the ground on numerous occasions (go watch his fights on YouTube or dl them, Fedor v Mark Hunt is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2iifFWyY8Q ) and i doubt he can take down or hold down Brock.

The question was “can Brock avoid the subs?” and “will he learn more effective ground and pound?” he answered yes to both those questions against Mir.

Fedor has never TKOd a fighter with a significant size advantage, if he wins its by sub from the bottom – most likely arm bar in the 1st or 2nd. That’s if he makes it that far. As the fight goes to the later rounds Fedor has less and less chance of pulling the sub.
 
Maybe that’s why the dude called you stupid, you don’t seem to know what you’re talking about or have actually watched the fighter you’re picking to win much.
I’m not saying you’re stupid, just wrong.

robbo, when did I say anything about being a “hardcore MMA fan?” I just think you’re wrong. Oh, so very wrong.

lee u seems kinda rrogant, theres no proof that anyone that thinks lesnar will b fedor is dumb, he can hav his opinion and that does’nt mean he knows nuthing about mma just because he disagrees with u, remember fedor got popular in japan where steriods r allowed and he fights ina ring not cage, look at those factors.