They are both legends and although this fight is happening 5 yrs too late it will be still interesting to see how it goes down.

I don’t like seeing either of these guys lose but I guess they are towards the end of thier careers so it shouldn’t affect either of them too badly.

Nog needs to come in shape and although he had the staph has not looked as good as the much older couture. The leaner and quicker he is gives him a much better chance of catching Randy in a sub from his back as we all know it will more than likely go there if Randy has his way.

No predictions for this one…I just hope its a war.

I firmly believe that had they both faced each other in their prime, Nog in 2004, Randy, who knows when his prime was….I really dont even think it would have been close. Imo, Nogueira is the much tougher and Legendary heavyweight fighter.

If Nog and Couture both retired before losing to mir and Lesnar, No doubt in my mind that nog would have went down as the better fighter and more LEGENDARY Fighter. only a fool would try to take anything away from Randy, he has had a helluva career OVERALL….but I think he has been vastly over rated as a heavyweight. IMO, the most impressive time in Couture’s career was when he took that run at the lightheavyweight division. His wins against Vitor were impressive. I dont remember if those fighst were at HW or LHW, but either way, I count beating Vitor as a LHW win because Vitor was never a real HW. Couture anackonda’ed Van Arsdale, dominated Tito when he was good (literally spanking tito on his ass as time winded down)…Destroyed lIddell in his prime, which is something that only Rampage achieved….I always wonder how Liddell/couture 2 and 3 would have played out if Randy was more focused and wasnt dealing with the divorce from his 14th wife (low blow).

AS a heavyweight, i think Couture has been vastly over rated. I give him a world of credit for ABUSING Sylvia the way he did…but he has had a very inconsistant career at heavyweight…I really dont ever think of him as a dominate HW, I like to think of him as just a great overall fighter, LEGENDARY for sure, but I think a lot of his legendary status comes from achieving the things he did at such an old age. NOgs Legendary status is as a heavyweight and it comes from straight up HEART, GUTS, a great CHIN and the most come from behind wins that the sport has ever seen…THe fashion in which Nog won so many big fights is truly amazing.

This fight is really hard to predict because NO one on this site really has any kind of idea what shape they will be in come fight night. Nog has been through more wars then wanderlei, and couture has really started to look his age recently. Randy looked old against Brock, and that was 8 months ago…so who knows how he will look.

NOg on the other hand cant possibly come into this fight in any worse shape then he did against mir…He straight up looked like a zombie when he fought Mir. Anyone who has ever seen a Big NOg fight knew that he wasnt even 1/10th of what he usually is. He had a NASTY staph infection, and his knees buckled every time he took a step. I have to commend Nog for not pulling out of that Mir fight. He had the guts and heart to put his title on the line when he was in such terrible shape. Not a lot of champions would have done that. Yes it might have been stupid in hindsight, but if you know what nOgs all about, its really not that stupid. NOg is IMO the BIGGEST Warrior in the history of mma, even more so then the legendary Wanderlei silva. Like Wanderlie, Nog Breathes, Lives and Fights for his FANS!!! I have to truly commend him for not backing out of his title defense against Mir. Normally, I would say that a Headliner of a card, should do everything in his power to fight because Headliners are what really sell the tickets and ppv’s, so having a headliner pull out at the last minute really hurts the fans, so I commend him for still taking that fight…but in hindsight, that was such a stacked card, that Nog should have pulled out of the fight and it still would have been a great night of fights for the fans. I know that it took a lot of guts, and love for his fans (not wanting to dissapoint them) to put his title on the line in such terrible condition. I mean HOnestly, can anyone see a guy like Frank Mir not pulling out of a title fight if he was in that terrible condition that NOg was in the night he put his title on the line? of course not.

Randy is a Legend for sure, but NO other fighter in the history of mma, has fought with such heart, guts and straight up courage that Nog has displayed throuhout his illustrious career. He has EARNED and deserves every fan of the sports respect and support. I cant ever see myself not supporting Big NOg, especially after all the memorable moments that he has provided me throughout the yeARS!

wAR biG nog!

Nice post John…I think the most impressive thing about Couture is the fact that he got started in his career so late. I think that speaks volumes about a fighter’s life span. It really doesn’t matter when you start to fight…it’s how long you fight for and the battles you get in that determine how long you can last as a fighter. You look at guys like Wandy and Nog and they are much younger than Randy but they’ve been fighting for so long and have been in so many battles that they even look older than they really are and are nearing the end of their fighter’s life span.

The problem is John I truly believe 5 years ago, that fight would have gone to a decision and I really think Randy wins it. Randys standup was just coming around then and he could have easily hung in there until it went to the ground, where I think Randy had learned enough in his days in RINGS to not get subbed so easy. I really see the last round of the fight with Randy posturing up and raining down blows to a bloody Nog, who obviously wont be finished cause hes an animal. But either way I see that bell ringing with Randy raining down punishment and getting a hard earned decision. Then again this is mma so who knows. But I realisticaly see the fight going that way. Just my opinion

Dave: realistically, no matter how much better I think Nog was in his prime, couture doesnt get dominated by anyone, so although I dont agree, your assesment is a fair one.

People tend to forget and under rate what a great boxer Nog used to be back in 2004. He was fast, and his hands were Nasty. GO watch the fight against Sergei in the Pride 2004 hW Grand Prix. Sergie is an amazing boxer and NOg was tagging him up like crazy.
The best striking that Couture has ever disp[layed, IMO was the Sylvia fight…but I still think the Nog that beat Sergei would put a one sided beatdown (in the stand up) against the couture that beat Sylvia.

Yes Couture’s grappling is good, but we are talking about NOgueira, who on the ground is about 3 times better then anyone Couture has ever faced with the exception of Jacre (but that was a grappling exhibition)…couture managed to nullify Jacre’s grappling, but he outweight Jacre by a ton, in mma, nog is a hW ju jITSU GOD!!!! LIke Seriously…I think Randy would be in trouble both standing or on the ground if he fought nog in his prime….but I would give a big clinch advantage to Randy…

Of Course, neither of them will be in their prime when they finally meet in August, and who knows what shape they will be in, so I wont make any predictions about that match up.

But I will say with confidence, that had they fought in their Prime, it would have been Nogs fight to lose, and I dont think that Randy could have accomplished half the things that nog accomplished at heavyweight. REAL TALK!!!

This post wasnt meant to diminish Randy. They are both truly legends and pioneers of the sport…Im just sayin….

John, i read every single word you said and i am with you 100% of the way. I was pretty much here to write exactly that but i was at work. From a legend status – Nog would enter any MMA HOF long before couture would. He was top 5 p4p fighter for the better part a decade. He is recognized as the 2nd best HW of all time. Even better his resume stands above most fighters in all of MMA as being the most impressive in terms of quality of opposition even that of Fedor. However, fedor has Nog on his resume which ultimately locks his status above him(yea now he’s fighting quality guys but you guys get my point). In their prime, Nog all the way. Now still i stand with Nog all the way. Nog has said in interviews that he started planning his fight with Captain paycheck back in 2000 when he thought it would be the two in the finals of King of Kings. He’s never stopped gameplanning for him since then.

John, Randy fought nearly every fight as a big underdog and hardy anyone gave him a chance to win. Why would this fight be any different?

Randy FTW.

Thats not an excuse, those are FACTS of circumstances that accompanied that match up. TO me an excuse is “I just got caught”…to me, that is a bunch of crap! But stating that you took that fight in the worst shape of your life is FACTUAL if you know anything about nOg.

People always talk about the staph infection, which is a terrible thing to have to fight through, but not a lot of people even mention the knee problems he had during that fight. His knee was buckling everytime he took a step and put weight on it.

Took a lot of heart and guts to put your title on the line in that kind of shape, and all just to not disappoint his fans, and the ones who bought tickets to the event. Instead of tearing him down he sahould be commended for stepping in the Octagon in that kind of shape to defend his title.

Does anyone really think Mir would have still fought in that kind of shape? NOT A CHANCE!!! hahahaha Mir even pulled out of the May fight with Brock for NO REASON, later admitting that he could have easily fought in MAY…yet I see so many fools on this site supporting MIr and Bashing NOg….I just dont get it!

That pussy Mir’d pull out with toothache! Shows what a total warrior Nog is!

forget that, you can’t defend a guy stepping into a ring when he’s not in shape for any reason. I don’t care what you say john it takes away from the other fighter. So basically your saying because Nog was injured he won that fight no matter what cause his loss doesn’t really count. No that is total bs and a smack in the face of your opponent. I like Nog as a fighter and I give him credit for stepping into the ring after his infection and with a bad knee but once you decide to do that I don’t want to hear about it after the fight. It was your decision to step into the ring like that and you lost, get over it.

Cogito: Dont even bother, Attak and John DISPISE Mir, it wont matter what you say, its white noise to them, trust me Ive tried haha

I know man but the point is its all up here for show. You can see how ridiculous their statements are far after all this blows over. Honest truth is, had any other fighter stepped into a fight in as bad a condition as Nog had they would be all over him talking about how dangerous that is and how it wastes the money of the viewer, ect. Bias is something that everyone has on this website and they just need to admit it before they post something like how its BA a guy lost a fight because he stepped into the ring injured. Nog is a bad dude imo but to have said this just shows a lack of class. I still hope he beats Randy and I still hope he gets a rematch against Mir. I was really hoping to see a ground clinic between the two.

Cogito: I agree with you 100%, and i think that they are being biased too. I mean if you step into the octagon with staph and win you are a hero, but if you lose, you have a really good excuse, and as much as i like Nog, i dont like the fact he is even bringing it up. It really was a no win situation for Mir. Since he won, it “didnt prove anything” but had he lost, he would just be the guy Nog miraculously beat with staph infection. Its bullshit, but it is an excuse Nog fans and Mir haters have been using since that fight went down. Frankly its an agree to disagree situation because I dont see either side budging on this one

You two finished your mutual lovefest????

The facts are these – Big Nog at full fitness beats Frank Mir at full fitness. It’s not even worth trying to debate that!

CC in his prime couldn’t defeat Nog standing, neither could Fedor and both their standup games are 100 times more dangerous than Mir’s ever will be.

Frank Mir couldn’t stand and trade with Ian F@cking Freeman of cage rage!

Mir is the luckiest HW in the world having Nog turn up looking like that, coz it’s got so many people thinking he’s actualy half decent! Any fighter in any weight class on the UFC roster would have KO’d Nog that night, that’s how utterly terrible a condition he was in!

Not one thing you said made what i said wrong. It still doesnt change the fact that what happened happened and excuses were made for and by Nog. Argue all you want attak, you arent right here. No matter if Nog at 100% would have beaten Mir or not. ALso please stop bringing up Ian Freeman, that was a REALLY long time ago, and every fighter out there has lost a fight they shouldnt have ex: GSP/Serra or ANderson/Chonan. Things happen. By the way, the fact me and cogito agree on something doesnt make it a love fest. You and John obviously agree on this crap, should I call out your little love affair, or should I call it a hate affair cause all you are doing is hating.

I am completely correct, everyone with a shred of MMA knowledge knows this. Have you ever watched Pride????

Check out their win/loss record and tell me Nog wouldn’t beat Mir 99 times out of 100.

I will not stop bringing up Ian Freemans name, it is far more embarassing than GSP’s and AS’s losses. It’s like Fedor losing to Jason Guida.

The difference with me and john is that we agree, but we dont have to pat eachother on the back in our posts like you pair seem to enjoy doing!

Attak: How can you be correct when you are speculating, because that is all you are doing. As much as you wanna say Nog would beat Mir 99 times out of 100 you cant, because it will always be speculative. The fact is Mir beat Nog with staph, and that is what happened. Maybe it bothers you, i know it bothers me that he wasnt 100% percent, but it happened that way. I did watch Pride and I know how good Nog is, and maybe he would have beaten Mir, but the fact is you are speaking out of passion and supposed logic, rather than truth, because the fact is that it comes all the way back to what ive been saying and that is that Mir won the fight and because of excuses, a great accomplishment in his life has been diminished. Maybe we will get a chance to see them both at 100% but until then you cant keep speculating and saying it isnt lame to make excuses.

THank you for trying to talk some sense into these people Attack, unfortunatley some people obviously arent too familiar with PRIDE or we wouldnt have to be having this argument.

Let me ask you guys a question…say you were spending a ton of money in this terrible economy, flying to Vegas to watch your 1st ever UFC event, would you want the fighter headlining the event to pull out of the fight in the last minute, or step in the cage like a warrior and try to perform for you?

If you prefer the latter of the two then Big Nog is your guy!

Thats fine John, he did it, and he lost. But you cant have it both ways, he made the choice to fight and thats it. You cant say woulda coulda shoulda after the fact. Him stepping into the octagon that night with staph does not give you the right to make excuses because he lost. Mir wins and you call him a hack. If Mir would have lost, you would call him a hack. If Mir would have beaten Nog at 100%, you would have called him a hack, and made some other excuse. It just comes down to the fact that you really love Nog and you really hate Mir. Thats a fact, and I dont know why you just wont say it. I would say Nog at 100% could beat Mir, but thats not what happened. We can only live with what happened, and until they fight again, thats all that you, me, or anyone has to go by, so I dont care if its the greatest excuse of all time, it is still the LITERAL definition of an excuse.

I see your point, Dave. And it’s fair to give Mir credit for winning just as much as Nog is giving him credit. He’s taking nothing away from him. He got beaten, he knows it.

But from an unbiased perspective I agree with attakdog. Nog knows he was not 100%, he knows this was a factor which contributed to his loss and as I said in my first post, it’s not as much an excuse as it is a truth, because it’s a fact that he was sick.

It would be the equivalent to him just finding out he had AIDS before fighting. It’s a sickness and a valid reason to not have been himself (okay, slightly less dramatic though.)

It’s not like he came out and put on a show and had a serious bloodbath with Mir and then said, “I was not myself.” We could see that had nothing. There was almost no fight in him. After watching him so many times you can see that he was affected by something.

But, just like Nog’s still giving credit to Mir, we have to give credit to him as well because a fight is a fight and, well, they both fought. And Mir won.

But that doesn’t mean there weren’t extraneous circumstances which contributed to that victory which also happen to be facts.

John and Adog make me laugh – they are all about the love-ins, they attach themselves to fighters in the way teenage girls attach themselves to pop idols. They talk about Pride as if they are the only people who ever watched it and as if knowing about the old pride fights means you are an MMA mastermind and can state speculation as fact. If you disagree with them, prove them wrong or point out the flaws of the fighters they idolise the very fabric of their world begins to fall apart and they spew statements like:

- If you don’t agree with me you are not a true MMA fan.
- Have you even watched Pride.
- You must like the ultimate fighter/Dana White/UFC.
- Anyone who knows MMA knows I am right.
- 9 times out of ten my idol would win (it always seems to be that 1 time out of 10 they lose when the fight actually happens though)
- In my imagination my idol would win, it’s not even worth trying to debate!
- I don’t have time to respond to this TROLL, or his ridiculous arguments (In response to posts containing a rational arguments and facts that prove their opinions wrong.)
- Why are so many fools disagreeing with me when it’s clear that I’m always right? I dont get it! (Yup, you just dont get it, do you?)

If you find yourself posting statements like this just take a few deep breaths, count to 10 … and fuck off.

LOL. That pretty much sums up John but not A-Dog. A-Dog has SOME leniency. Hehe. Funny though. Good post.

Yeah bit harsh on Adog, i think its just his hatred of Mir showing through. On the other hand John posts so often and is so certain of what he is saying that his perception is sold as certainty.

Im sick of reading it. He puts himself on a knowledge pedestal and tries to persuade people by using an appeal to fear of social exclusion ad nauseam, affecting confusion and doubt through dissinformation – a cheap trick he probably picked up at law school. Its truthiness in full flow, its the American way, its bullshit. I think he’s aiming for a seat in the senate.

LOL. Admittedly, John does frequently have good points. I agree with him sometimes and even when I don’t I can still see why he would think it, so I respect it.

He’s still an asshole though. ;)

Yeah that was harsh! Don’t tar me panic with your john hating brush!

Thanks kobajack, I do have “SOME leniency”, not much admittedly, but SOME.

Hehe yeah, I emphasized SOME just to make it clear you weren’t a TOTAL asshole. I’m kidding ;)

Two hours later and my posts have still not appeared. They’ve disappeared yet again. Anyway, I said something close to this:

Admittedly, John does frequently have good thoughts and I agree with him some of the time and even when I don’t I can still see how he would think that way.

But he’s still an @sshole.

attakdog: Haha yeah I made sure to add ‘SOME’ just so he knew you weren’t a TOTAL @sshole. Just kidding ;)

Cheers mate, not a “total @sshole”, I’ll settle for that ;-)

LOL!

paniczoo I will quote for you: “but I don’t want to take anything from Mir …”

No need to thank me.

krezylobstah if he didn’t want to take anything away from Mir he wouldn’t have said it in the first place. epic failure on your part.

He’s just excusing his bad performance. Which was bad, it is a fact. Comparing to past performances, it was bad. By saying that, he isn’t taking anything away from Mir, only from himself.

Nog implies that Mir only won because he was sick, thus detracting from the victory and did Mir know about this staff infection before the fight? Did it have to be cleared with the Doctors? I mean who would want to be elbowed in the face with staff infected arm? That’s nasty.

It’s easy to forget that Nog looked terrible in his fight against Sylvia, he was flat footed and slow, backpedalling almost the entire fight, he didn’t look like his old aggressive, relentless and explosive self and Sylvia was able to beat him to the punch over and over with simple left right combos and stuff his takedowns with relative ease. Obviously his amazing submission game saved him but I think if Randy comes out aggressive and makes a brawl out of the fight he can keep Nog on the back foot and take the win. UD Randy – if it had been a 5 rounder TKO Randy in the later rounds.

Yup. Randy wins. More excuses ensue. Just watch your Pride DVDs and enjoy them. Those days are over.

Isn’t there an athletic commissioner or someone who would step in and stop the fight if Nog was that bad off?

P.S. Love Nog. He was a great coach and is a great guy. Legend in the sport. But I also love Chuck Liddell. Sometimes you just have to let go.