Puppet Master: Jens Pulver WEC 41 interview exclusive with MMAmania.com

Jens Pulver (22-11-1) was once a scrappy collegiate wrestler with stellar stand-up skills who captured the UFC’s first-ever lightweight title. That was at UFC 30 in 2001.

"Lil Evil" would go on to defend his title two more times — including earning a majority decision win over BJ Penn — before leaving the UFC to fight in various other MMA promotions, including Shooto, PRIDE and the IFL. He also boxed professionally.

Since returning to the Zuffa family in 2006, Pulver has dropped to featherweight and earned a shot at the WEC featherweight title, but lost the five-round unanimous decision to then-champion Urijah Faber.

Then came a first-round TKO loss to Leonard Garcia (which earned Garcia a title shot), followed by a rematch with Faber and another loss (this one coming by way of guillotine choke in the first round).

Before you knew it, Pulver had lost five of his last six fights, albeit to stiff competition. MMA fans and commentators alike began wondering if we’re witnessing the beginning of the end of a legendary career. Has the sport passed him by?

Ever the realist, Pulver admits the sport did start to pass him by during his "three-year slump." But just as many in his situation would choose to move on to something else, Pulver sees it as a chance to continue learning, continue to grow and evolve as the sport evolves. You can, as he sees it, teach an old dog new tricks.

In many ways, Pulver faces the biggest test of his career Sunday night, June 7, at WEC 41: "Brown vs. Faber 2," when the 33-year-old elder statesman meets 20-year-old rising talent Josh Grispi (12-1), who many have called a "new breed" of fighter.

As Pulver notes, when you’re on a skid at this point in your career, every fight is your biggest fight, because the younger fighters recognize how a win over a legend can catapult their careers.

We recently caught up with Pulver to ask him about this new breed of fighters, see how he plans to counter the length and reach of Grispi, and find out which is the better motivator: Anger or the love of competing.

Have a look:

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): When preparing for a fight, do you watch tape on your opponent, and if so, what did you learn from Grispi’s first two WEC fights?

Jens Pulver: Yeah, I watched his Miller, I watched his Hominick. High kicks, aggression — he likes to throw down. He’s just a good all-around fighter … But I know he loves those kicks. He loves them kicks. But okay, cool, you just can’t let him … those kicks can’t go unanswered. You can’t let him pop them off and not get three in his face for doing it. You gotta move and think like that.
But yeah, he’s an aggressive fighter, he’s tall, he’s got the length and stuff like that. He likes to throw his kicks, and it’s just gonna be up to me to make sure he doesn’t want to throw them, and every time he does, he slips.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Grispi’s fairly tall for 145. How do you plan on countering his reach advantage?

Jens Pulver: I’m gonna stick my head in his chest and never take it off.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): (Laughs)

Jens Pulver: You know? That’s it. If he threw straight punches, I’d be a little bit more worried; but they’re hooks, so he’s already shortening himself up a little bit there. His kicks … use a lot of leg.
I don’t really know how big he is — if he’s just a skinny, skinny tall kid — I haven’t really ever paid attention. But you can’t stay out of his range, you either have to be away from it or get in on it. You gotta explode to do that. Set him up.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Given that he seems to be fairly well-rounded, despite being just 20 years old. Do you go in with the "sprawl n brawl" mentality — your bread and butter — or are you comfortable no matter where this fight goes?

Jens Pulver: Well, that’s the thing. In my last few fights, I’ve just been uncomfortable period. I don’t really know what’s been happening, so now it’s back to just what I did well — the fundamentals — which is to brawl, make the guy guess, back him up, stuff his shots, and just hurt him where they’re at.

But these last guys, all these new well-rounded fighters, they’re great standing up and on the ground. Like I said, the sport passed me by when I was in my three-year slump there, and it’s just me trying to catch up with them.

So really I’m just out there, I wanna be the puppet-master, man, I wanna make this kid flinch and dance. I wanna land my shots standing up, and then from there, of course, if I can stuff the shots, great, I’m gonna stuff ‘em, but I’m gonna take my shots too.

It’s just time to start being more well-rounded, I’ve been working on it and chasing it. It’s gotta come out at some point, it might as well be this one.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): I’m curious about your training camp for this fight. Talking about getting back to the fundamentals, can you talk briefly about the training camp, about how you’ve been preparing for the fight?

Jens Pulver: Yeah, I went back to the CFX , that’s the one with the tennis balls. They got me in great shape for that first fight with Faber. Granted, I was slow, but that wasn’t because of them, that was just the way I was training.

I went back to my boxing gym over there with the Alley Cat Boxing and Jeff Perez. I went to the wrestling room at Bettendorf High School, I was wrestling with the Trizzinos. So I got my wrestling back. I was religiously wrestling there for a few months.

And then of course going to Miletich and doing what I do there. Spar with Junior and L.C. Davis and those guys, grapple with those guys.

I was just branching out. I was utilizing Iowa, everything that I’ve had before. But above that, I got to stay home every day. My wife-to-be — we’re getting married on the 4th of July —

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Ah, congratulations

Jens Pulver: Thank you. She supports me incredibly. We got to treat her like it was the training camp at the same time, because I’d just hover downstairs, but I’d come upstairs and we’d eat and hang out. I needed to be around my son, man. He just turned five months, and I get to say that I didn’t miss one day of it. I was there for it all. So we did what we needed to do to make it work, but it was a blast staying home.

I think when people see me … When they see me get on the scale, when they see me weigh in, they’re gonna go "Oh." That’s a promise. No, this one’s gonna turn heads. When people see how hard I’ve been working, this is gonna turn heads.

That soft body that got hit with the body shot against Faber, that ain’t never happening again in my life — the soft body part. The liver? Maybe.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): In a sport where it seems like a lot of MMA fans have short memories and a lot of times you’re only as good as your last win, and here you’re on a bit of a slump in terms of the win/losses, how vital is a win here for you?

Jens Pulver: It’s huge. That’s what people don’t understand. No, I’m not gonna hang ‘em up. No, I’m not gonna retire — man, at 33? Hell no, who’s gonna retire at 33, you’re crazy.

But what I’m gonna have to do is … I’m sitting here, what do I do? I’m caught in a crazy position. I’m — and I don’t mean this in a pompous way — I’m Jens Pulver. So I automatically can’t go out there and have an amateur career, you know what I mean?

But I’m also "legendary" Jens Pulver, or however you want to put it. So yeah, I was there when a ground guy really only knew the ground, and a stand-up guy really only knew stand up. This sport has evolved so much from that, that now I’m sittin’ there, I’m the one left behind, but I’m still trying to compete. I’m at that age where I’m the one trying to learn. That’s what it feels like to me.

So that world champion was back — boop! — I was in the pioneer days when I was making things happen. Now six years later, all these guys that watched me do it are in here drilling me in the face. It’s awesome. I’m learning like everybody else is.

I don’t get an amateur career, I don’t get that luxury of being able to fight 35 times before I get recognized. I walked into this thing damn near recognized, and ever since then with the explosiveness of the sport, that’s not an option. Every time I fight it’s going to be like a world title fight for these kids, they know it’s a catapult.

So my confidence is down, but by the same token … Look it, this is my "yeah, you’ve lost five of your last six fights, we’re gonna give ya Grispi." What?! That’s as easy as it gets for me, I guess. (Laughs)
So it’s either just get on the horse and hold on, man, or don’t cry when you get bucked off.

That’s why you don’t see me whining and bitching about losing these fights, because I know what’s happening inside of me, I know the training that I’m doing, so I’m confident. But yeah, man, winning’s huge.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Well, I think it’s that attitude that makes you so loved by so many fans. I read about you answering a question about what motivates you. You had said that anger used to, but now you are putting "Lil’ Evil" to rest and getting back to the old Jens Pulver. As you get older, which is easier for a fighter — being motivated by anger or being motivated by the love of just competing?

Jens Pulver: Having them both is beautiful. But I think at the end of the day being driven just by the sport, yeah, that’s good, but it’s nowhere near as good as the kid who’s starving, who’s saying this is life and death. I have to get better because this is what I want more than anything in the world. Sleeping in the gym from morning practice to evening practice, and things like that. There’s a difference between the two for sure.

But still, loving the sport? Yeah, man, that gets you in there into training, and it’s still extremely tough. You gotta love it to even get in there and train day in and day out. But that’s without the anger.

I’m just saying for me, I had to have that. I never did this to stand out and go, "I want everybody to think I’m tough." Nah, man, I knew I was tough. I was tough from the first day my dad punched me in the face at five years old. I knew I could take a beating. That’s why I did this. I loved wrestling, I loved competing, I loved training. I had no other choice but this.

So having that kind of drive, that’s something, because what makes that happen and what makes it easier to get a pro fight I think is because it drives you every minute of every day. It’s not something you can just … you don’t just get to put it aside.

When you love the gym and you love fighting, you put your jacket on when you go into the gym … You take your jacket off, you leave the gym, and you can go be whatever else you are, whoever else you are. But when all you are is driven and chasing a world title, you eat, sleep, dream, breathe, and that’s all you think about. That’s the difference.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): You replaced Frank Mir as color commentator at WEC 39. How did you like the experience, and is it something you care to pursue again?

Jens Pulver: I love it. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I don’t know how good a job I did, but again, I love being part of the WEC and the UFC. I love being around them. I know Mir had to get ready, he had things to do, so I love the fact that I got to step in and do that.

That’s the direction I want to go. It’s the best seat in the house, and you get to talk and people listen, talk about fights, and just hang out. I love it. It’s perfect for me. So I’m hoping that I get that opportunity again, but when this fighting career’s over, I’m hoping that I can just sit down and hang out with the UFC and just talk about fights all day.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Any thoughts on Mike Brown vs. Urijah Faber 2?

Jens Pulver: Yeah, you gotta go with the champ. It’s up to Faber to get it from him. Is he feeling the pressure? How’s he gonna do, what’s he gonna look like?

Brown ain’t feeling jack. Brown knows that that was no fluke. He knows he can knock that guy out.
He knows he can beat him up every time. Other people thought that might have been a fluke, but I think he proved it with Leonard Garcia. That probably should have shut everybody up — it did me.
But again, Faber loves the scrambles. I don’t know if he’s hard-nosed enough to beat him. I don’t know, we’ll see though.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Well, Jens, thanks again for taking the time to talk with us. Would you like to thank any sponsors?

Jens Pulver: No problem. And yes, there’s one big one: XSI-now.com . What they are is Xtreme Sports Insurance. You know how hard it is to be an ultimate fighter, with this as your employment, to find insurance? Well, these guys have set it up, and this is what they’re here for.

All those young fighters, you try and go get insurance, and they laugh in your grill. But, if you go to that XSI-now.com, that’s the place for fighters to get health insurance. So I would really push it. I would really ask for everybody to push it, because there’s not too many places.

I tried to get … whatever, like Blue Shield. They said, "You know what you did?" And I’m like, "Yeah, yeah, it’s whatever." So they charge you extra and double. But the XSI-now.com , the Xtreme Sports Insurance, for me, that’s why I went with them, and they insure me now.

Adam Wagner (MMAmania.com ): Spoken like a true veteran, always looking out for the younger guys.

Jens Pulver: Well then you got Tapout and people like that. But I always gotta thank Tapout , I love ‘em to death. It’s all about the fight, man, we’ll just see what happens.