Chuck Liddell retirement decision likely to come in the 'next week' ...
by MMAmania.com on Apr 21, 2009 8:47 AM EDT
114 comments
... according to his long-time trainer, John Hackleman, in the latest interview with Action Sports:
"It's going to be done when Chuck decides it's done and we sit down somewhere on the beach probably in Hawaii and just say you know what it's done, then we'll decide. Not after a fight that he got stopped by one of the best fighters on a planet, that's not the time to decide if it's done or not. He's been ko'd twice in his entire life. It's not time to retire because of that."
We already know that UFC President Dana White made the decision for him to retire after the first round technical knockout loss to Mauricio "Shogun" this weekend at UFC 97: "Redemption. "The Iceman," unsurprisingly, prefers to make that decision on his own when the timing is right for him -- there may be a fighting fire that still burns inside the 39-year-old mixed martial arts legends despite his recent struggles inside the Octagon. It should be interesting to see if and when he does make a decision whether or not it drives a wedge between him and White ... especially if he wants to stick around and, at the very least, finish the last fight on his current and deal and attempt to go out with his hand raised rather than flattened on the canvas. However, he'd more than likely have to do it against one of the best in the division -- fighting a no name would do him no justice. Howard Davis Jr. -- the famed boxing trainer who attempted to fix Liddell's mechanics heading into the Rua fight -- thinks that if he does intend to keep fighting that he should do it as a middleweight. And the latest big name to make the drop to 185 pounds, Wanderlei Silva, wants a rematch with Liddell after his UFC 99 fight against Rich Franklin. Hmmm .... any interest in that, maniacs?
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i have little interest in Chuck/Wand…Wand is at 185 anyways…I do have interest in that fight, just not much interest
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah … and Chuck would meet him at 185.
by MMAmania on Apr 21, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
says who?? Howard Davis Jr.??? I heard Dana say “Chuck is done”….until I hear confirmation to the contrary thats what I’ll believe
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck may be done with the UFC, but I am sure Affliction or one of the other guys would pick him up the next day. If they pay Tim Silva $800k for one fight they would surely pay Chuck the same if not more. I just can’t see Chuck giving up on a loss. It will eat at him if he doesn’t get another win. I think he should fight Rich Franklin.
by brian on Apr 21, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian, that is true, Chuck can still make a couple million over the next 2 years in other places. The real question is should he? I don’t think so. There is nothing sadder than an old fighter who is punch drunk years after ending his career. 3 knockouts in 4 fights seems to be some foreshadowing of what we could expect.
It sounds to me like Hackleman is more interested in not losing his meal ticket than he is not losing the health of his friend. I think Dana’s heart is more in the right place than Hackelman’s is. But what do I know, I’m just on the outside looking in.
by sawyer on Apr 21, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey McArthur!!!
If I said I banged Beyonce would you believe it unless you heard confirmation to the contrary from Beyonce?
Okay then….I banged Beyonce.
See the problem with your logic?
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
your speculating what could happen…I am stating what I have heard…see the difference…Dana (Chuck’s boss) said “Chuck is done” so from that, how can you say I’m illogical…Logically thinking, I would say that the chances of you banging Beyonce are next to nill..with respect Intro I think your the one who is illogical
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, you’ve decided that hearing something second-hand, NOT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH, is matter of fact?
And I’m the “illogical” one? lmao
If I were you I’d wait for it to come from the horses mouth (Chuck), not the guy who stands to gain something from forcing Chuck’s retirement early (Dana).
Glad you’re not a judge…every person who got a finger pointed at them would be doing a life sentence with your logic.
Did you hear Chuck say he’s retired? ‘Cause I didn’t.
Do yourself a favour and wait for “facts” from the SOURCE instead of citing second-hand knowledge.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro, I just read your posts and am in agreement. Please clarify your problem with what I posted as its unclear what your talking about
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just think you need to wait for Chuck’s announcement (or lack-there-of) that’s all.
Peace.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro…by the sounds of your retort I guess your a bit of a Chuck fan…haha
Its hardly 2nd hand knowledge when both Dana and Chuck are together at a press conference with Chuck not 6 feet away when Dana says “Chuck is done”…maybe thats not the horses mouth and continue to critisize all you like but thats close enough for me.
Do you not remember what happened to Randy when he tried to leave with 1 fight left on his contract? If there is a difference by all means explain it to me.
What exactly is your point anyways? Are you that upset that Chuck lost? Just having a bad day? Enjoy splitting hairs?? What? Are your feelings hurt that Chuck might never fight again? If you ask me, I could care less. I will not sit and speculate what Chuck might do at MW, LHW, or HW cause I’ve heard he is done. Maybe not from the horse’s mouth, but from the farmers mouth with the horse present. Is it realistic that Chuck could fight at 185? Not imo. Is it realistic that Chuck could fight for another org? Not imo either? Try posting what you’d like to see happen or what could realistically happen instead of bashing me on my opinions so we can move on.
P.S I’ve read your other posts and pretty much agree with wahtever you said so I don’t see the prob here. Unless you are actually Mania and are perturbed with my rebutal to your earlier post.
Have a nice day
McArthur ;)
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed…I will wait till Chuck announces it next week and will admit if I’m wrong :)
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! I banged Beyonce[in my dreams]and I’m illogical sometimes…Bottom line, Chuck’s done. Enter the new breed!
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just my opinion, but Chuck moving to 185 would be a disaster. Speed and reflexes are his primary problems now, and those will only be bigger issues at the lower weight class. Chuck will definitely make his own decision, and deserves to. Even though I think he should retire from fighting, I think we’ll see him in the cage again somehow.
by CL on Apr 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contractually, I don’t think its up to him…from what Dana has said Chuck isn’t going ANYWHERE…remember Randy?? If Chuck tried to leave the UFC he would be tied up in legalities forever…Dana’s exact words were “Chuck will be with me forever” which he said in the post presser
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great comment above. Speed is definitely Chuck’s Achilles Heel. It was never more apparent than when he fought Rashad Evans (of course I wanted Chuck to KTFO him). However, in the highlight KTFO of Chuck it became clear that he no longer possessed the speed to compete at the 205 weight class.
Jay K.
by Jay K. on Apr 21, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, and that’s why Randy would have had a huge problem competing at 205 again.. his style is made for HW
by RoB on Apr 21, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck is slow now which means he would have to move to HW but then they hit harder than at 205 and his ability to take a punch is no longer there…poor Chuck. Youre done man.
by c-war on Apr 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another great comment by the great RoB!Who,knows better than everybody else on this site!
by Alpha Male 360 on Apr 21, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah rob, you’re right on. It’s exactly what my wife said after the KO, but she and I agree, if LHW’s are knocking chuck out, the HW’s would too! He isn’t able to control or out wrestle guys like Randy is!
by kevin on Apr 21, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep that is correct, cool wife you got there!
thanks alpha male =) I appreciate it!
by RoB on Apr 21, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree going for another title run is ridiculous. I still think though, Chuck has something left in him. Give him Bonnar or somebody, id love to see one last Flash knockout from the iceman, who cares who it is. Everyone knows he cant beat the top competition.
by medecine balls on Apr 21, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana’s exact words were "Chuck will be with me forever" which he said in the post presser…They should get married.
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I think Bonnar would take the iceman also. That dude is tough and has never been KO’d. If you want to feed Liddell a can for him to KTFO one last time, Bonnar is the wrong pick. Coleman would be good. Not like Coleman can take him down, and not like hes gonna KO chuck … (hopefully… :))
by Brandon on Apr 21, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word, if he cant KO coleman, then retire. Even if he can finish coleman theres not much going up from there. I just wanna see one more, uno mas cuck, uno mas!
by medecine balls on Apr 21, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, 2 days ago I posted (Dana White “embarassed” with UFC 97 main event) saying the same thing about dropping to 185 and got reamed out for saying “the dumbest fucking thing”. Looks like I’m not he only one who thinks its a good idea. “williamshatner” says he can’t cut 35lbs…no one cuts 35lbs. They lose weight gradually untill they can sweat out the last 5-10lbs or so. Maybe you folks should actually read the articles and then the posts before you make comments.
Plus “halljam2” is a real mathlete.
by Nokimono on Apr 21, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, was kinda pissed…i feel better now.
by Nokimono on Apr 21, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“nobody cuts 35 lbs”…what kind of statement is that?? Nobody cuts 35lbs a day or 2 before a fight but the loss of weight over time is weight cutting. Chuck has fought at 205, and has weighed probably close to 220 for more than a decade. If you think the additional 15lbs will be easy for him to loose at 39 years of age ////
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow mania…really clamping down today eh?
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn’t necessarily call it the dumbest fucking thing, but, who would he fight that he would actually have a chance at winning? Hendo would kill him, Franklin would demolish him, hell even bisping would probably squeeze out a decision against him.
by bigbadbrad on Apr 21, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i dont think hendo would “kill” him… none the less he has to fight top comp where ever he goes, so that makes it tough, but he has a better chance at 185.
also, bisping isn’t ready…yet
by Nokimono on Apr 21, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it really interesting that Chuck ans his camp don’t consider the Rampage fight a KO. This is the second time I have heard that from them.
by DSmith on Apr 21, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t consider the Shogun or Couture losses KO’s. That would leave the Quinton and Rashad losses as KO’s. Though if you look back the fight against Quinton was ruled a TKO due to referee stoppage, not a KO, so technically Chuck has only been KO’d once, against Rashad.
by DoctorSamson on Apr 21, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck will always be a legend but he is done…. Jardine, Jackson, and Shogun were hard for me to watch…his punches had no power, were slow and he has developed a glass jaw…185 or not he shouldn’t fight anymore…he looked okay vs’s Wandy becuase Wandy is old and slow as well…a rematch between the two? I guess I might still watch if only Wandy somehow beats Rich but I’m not counting on it…..
Thank You again Chuck
by Robert(1) on Apr 21, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea I don’t think it would be smart for him to drop to 185. He probably would struggle to lose the weight in training, cut too much, too fast, and drain himself.
He would be facing faster opponents as well
by ja434650 on Apr 21, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Prolonging his career is only going to get him seriously hurt. The man had a iron chin. Now he gets hit and he is out, waking up asking people what happened. With his reaction time as diminished as they are he has no business being the octagon. Everyone in everyone division is younger and faster than Chuck. He obviously has some physical ramifications from fighting all these years already. I don’t want to see him shaking years from now because he didn’t know when to say when.
He has a ton of career options, but fighting shouldn’t be one of them.
by DSmith on Apr 21, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he prolonged his career any further, he may end up like Ali, with Parkinson’s disease or something…
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Chuck’s 29, then I’m 16!…But no matter what his age is, The Iceman should hang it up for his own safety…
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think wan is going down the same path chuck is and I’d hate to see him go out like chuck losing more fights before he retires.
It would be a good match up, but I wouldn’t be as excited. It’s like putting two super stars together to fight with out their mojo’s. Ya they “used” to be superstars but what good is any fight without ones mojo?
by Alex on Apr 21, 2009 8:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wanderlei could still get his mojo back. He’s still young. Heck, Austin Powers got his mojo back, with the help of Beyonce though[whom which introvert banged]…
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck’s the man. The UFC just wouldn’t be the same without him.
by lukeinShanghai on Apr 21, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
People said the same about Randy when he retired…but the UFC will be just fine.
I was wondering about Hendo too. He’s Like 39-40 years old. I wonder when he’s thinking about hanging em up..
by TabascoSAUCE on Apr 21, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably when he loses 4 out of 5 fights, three of which to big KO’s, just like Chuck has. Age can be a factor obviosly but it depends on your fighting style too. Chucks wide open counter punching style relies a lot on razor sharp reflexes and speed, and unfortunately that’s the first to go with advancing years! Hendo’s doesn’t, neither does Couture, hence they can carry on picking up wins with their advancing years.
by attakdog on Apr 21, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They should all just take a page out of Dan Severn’s book if they still wanna continue fighting at 40 years young.
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on your comments, Hendo is on his way to retirement! He is 2/3 for his last 3 fights. Just two more losses and he’s done! I think you have to also consider the opponents for both guys. Chuck, lost to a former champ and current champ and former #1 ranked 205er and Jardine which is only real one that doesn’t make sense.
Hendo also lost to Rampage and of course got schooled by Anderson. So, with Anderson in there his opponents have been better. Let’s say Hendo loses to Bisping and his next match let’s say it’s Wandy… Should he retire?
by SDMMA on Apr 21, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe. It’s the manner of the losses more than anything as well which is a factor. If he gets sparked clean out first round (never gonna happen with Bizbing) both fights then yes. Can’t see that happening though. Due to his style, he could hang around for 2 or 3 more years as a gatekeeper figure. Chuck due to his wide open style doesn’t have that option because he would continue to get sparked out which isn’t healthy.
by attakdog on Apr 22, 2009 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hendo, like Randy, has spent much of that time wrestling and uses his strength to those means for the most part. He has taken fewer punches and will continue to do so by taking people down to beat on them. There is a cumulative effect to all the punches and kicks and eventually it will wear away on these guys as well.
by PJJ on Apr 21, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a huge Liddell fan and its time to go, I guess it’s always the fighter and his trainer that are the last to see it. BTW Shogun is not one of the best fighters on the planet, I know your looking for justification but sorry. Chuck has no chin left, he looked slow and when you have fought one way for so long it doesn’t matter if Howard Davis shows you new techniques, you’re going to revert back to what you’ve done the past 10-15 yrs. It was painful to watch Chuck fight on Saturday.
by Jason on Apr 21, 2009 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Acvtually when in shape, Shogun is one of the best fighters on the planet!
Question: Why does Roy JOnes think that Anderson’s UFC contract ends in SEptember? THis is what JOnes had to say about the situation:
“I can’t wait for Anderson to get done with his [UFC] contract, whenever that is — I’ve heard [September] — then let’s get it on,” Jones said
by john on Apr 21, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed john, when in shape Shogun is definitely one of the best fighters on the planet. He has not impressed me since coming from Pride but I think this was defiitely the first step.
People make a big deal about his losing 4 out of the last 5 fights but look who he has fought. Rampage – former champ, Jardine – took Rampage the distance, Rashad – current champ, and Rua – no explanation needed. I say retire now, but I wouldnt have any real objection to him wanting to finish his contract out (hopefully with a win).
by WB on Apr 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats how i see it wb, he lost to the some of the best guys out there he could get a win and retire.
by roy on Apr 21, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shogun needs to prove his merit in the UFC. I will not base a fighters merit on what he did in Pride, especially after I see fighters fight with half the aggression in the UFC vs. when they did in Pride.
by Jason on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha! now you know the rule Jason. Say somethin’ negative about Shogun, and john will be there around the corner, ready to pounce.
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Apr 21, 2009 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
29 year old legend???
Another Wand fight would be a little anti climactic but would probably still sell a ton of seats wherever they had it.
by downtown on Apr 21, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No interest for me at all in a rematch with Wanderlai. It’d be like Ken Shamrock taking on Dan Severn again. What’s the point, they’re both shadows of their former selves.
by attakdog on Apr 21, 2009 9:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah it would be dumb, if wand wins then there goes the only win he has had sence losing his title, give him forest if any one, maybe even bonnar, or thiago silva, as far as a remach jardine makes more sence to me than wandy, if you wan’t your icon to go out with a win or at least looking good give him those guys. wand should fight leban, irvan, mcfedries after franklin too bad terry martin is gone he would be perfect for wand.
by Blazy J on Apr 21, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chuck is one big dude to get down to 185.
I don’t think the interest is there for him to be the main fighter on a pay per view event. He should just take his role in the UFC and go out with dignity while he still has it. There is no shame in losing to Rua and Rashad by KO to end your career.
by edward on Apr 21, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he can hit 185 if he gets a belly flab-ectomy. haha j/k in all seriousness chuck is the man, i agree with lucas, give him coleman in a UFC old timers fight so he can leave on a winning note. he deserves something for being a longtime UFC workhorse
by bump on Apr 21, 2009 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For chuck to drop to 185 would be miserable for him. Wand would destroy him at 185 or 190.
I’d watch and pay for this fight, two legends, brawlers going at it. Old, maybe, no chins anymore, maybe, but dammit, its Wand and Chuck. And Wand gives his all no matter what, and the same could be said about Liddell.
Wand gets Franklin too!
by The Slovak on Apr 21, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
chuck is a tad chubby with a belly he could cut down to middleweight be leaner
might jump start his career
easiler opponents than light heavy weight i think
he should try and go down besides retire
by bryant on Apr 21, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
a 39 year old man can’t cut 15 lbs that easily…it would take a year for him to be comfortable at that weight
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lidell vs. henderson would be awesome at 185 or even dare i say it lidell vs. bisping, what are your thoughts on those two matchups?
by J.Mile on Apr 21, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t want to see either of them, or him fighting anyone else for that matter. Chuck is by far my fav fighter, but I just dont want to see him get beat again so far out of his prime. I’m pretty sure Chuck knows that now is the time to bow out. Maybe take a year or so off and pull a couture… or not.
by tylerS on Apr 21, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict Chuck punching his “friend” Dana right in the face. It’s pretty obvious to me that Dana is telling Chuck he’s retiring before his last fight is up that way the UFC can put Chuck on ice and not let him fight with another promotion. Pretty dirty tactics by Dana I’d say. I’m no Chuck fan, but if Randy Couture can get KTFO twice (by Chuck no less) then continue on fighting, then WTF is Dana doing forcing Chuck into retirement right now? He’s an elite fighter who obviously still wants to fight……..let him fight!!!!!
I can’t believe the UFC is doing this to Chuck at the exact same time they are promoting a fight with Mark Coleman in it.
Chuck ain’t getting down to 185…no friggin’ way. And why is anyone talking about Wandy and Chuck fighting at 185 when Wandy hasn’t even proven he can make that weight yet? Kind of got the cart before the horse people.
I guess Chuck (and his fans) are going to get a first hand view of just how “friendly” Dana White is with his fighters after all. Chuck is being black-balled by the UFC, while the UFC tries to sugar-coat it by calling him a “legend” and saying he “will be employed by the UFC as long as he wants”. These statements aren’t for Chuck’s benefit, they are for the UFC’s benefit and will help with the UFC’s case when this ends up in litigation (just like Randy’s problem). Anyone who followed the UFC’s posturing during the Randy Couture saga will know exactly what I’m talking about.
Once again, I’m not a Chuck fan, but this is ridiculous. Did anyone else notice Chuck walk out of the press conference the other day while Dana was talking on his behalf about his retirement from fighting? I bet Chuck would have rather knocked Dana’s head off than walk out of the presser.
Hey Chuck fans….welcome to the world of Tito Ortiz!!!!!
Isn’t it ironic.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points introvert, especially about Coleman.
by attakdog on Apr 21, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are missing the point. Dana came from boxing, and knows all too well what happens when promoters like Don King don’t care about their fighters, and only care about making money. Look at Hearns, Ali, or Holmes. Not a pretty sight, all punch drunk from too many hits to the head.
Dana knows this, and he knows he built the UFC from a lot of what Chuck brought. They are good friends, and Dana made sure he took good care of Chuck along the way. I think he has Chuck’s best interest (his health and not his bank account) at heart. Dana could easily find something for Chuck to do to have him earn half a mil a year. The thing is I don’t think Chuck is interested in a day job.
I am sure it is hard having been one of the best and being forced to come to terms with the fact your time is over. Let’s all face it, we know Chuck’s time is over. I think Dana is trying to save him some dignity.
by sawyer on Apr 21, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullshit!!!
I’m missing the point? I think you’ve been living under a rock if you think this is about friendship and not money for Dana. You are right when you say it’s not about money for Chuck, but you are dead wrong when yopu say the entire situation isn’t about money. The UFC is the one holding all of the cards and they are completely about money…not friendship. All this “friendship” talk is about posturing…nothing else.
If Dana was all about friendship when it comes to Chuck, and Chuck wants to fight the last fight on his contract…then Dana should let him fight. Put him in against Forrest or somebody (I think Chuck would beat Forrest…Forrest doesn’t have the power to hurt Chuck). But, that won’t happen, because Dana wants CONTROL…not “friendship.”
Case in point…Michael Jordan. I didn’t hear anyone of MJ’s “friends” come out and say “he should stay retired” when MJ wanted to play more basketball. Any true friend was behind him 100% I’m sure. If not, then they aren’t friends…pretty simple.
Dana signed Chuck to a contract, and if Chuck wants to finish that contract then he should let him. But of course, with ALL of the UFC’s top drawing fighters…the contract will never get played out until it’s over. When is the last time a big money fighter for the UFC fought all of his fights in his contract then left the company, without a big uproar? I challenge you to name someone.
It’s about money….period.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i do agree, he was only out cold once the other 2 where tko’s theres alot of fighters out there that have been ko’ed way more than that and i don’t see dana or anyone else telling them to retire.
by roy on Apr 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big difference between Jordan and Chuck are the sports they play. No one is trying to hurt Jordan, people are trying to knock Chuck’s head off.
If it was about only money for Dana, then why wouldn’t he let Chuck fight? He makes no money if Chuck doesn’t fight. He makes some money if Chuck does fight. Granted Chuck can headline an event, but he is a great draw, and there are people he could fight.
So how is Dana making it about money then by not wanting Chuck to fight again? Maybe I’m missing something here.
Let me put it another way. If you had a buddy who was a race car driver, and had been in a lot of bad wrecks because his driving skills had gone down hill, would you let him keep racing, for the fear that he might get himself into a situation where he could get really hurt, or risk permanent injury? I know I wouldn’t, even if I had to physically step in. Money comes and goes, the three things in life you can’t buy is Health, Love and Happiness. Chuck has all three, so go out while people still love and respect you, and before you tarnish your legacy. Just my opinion.
by sawyer on Apr 21, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dana stands to lose potential viewers if he allows Chuck to fight his last fight on his contract, then become a free agent….that’s how.
As far as the race car driver scenario goes…if I were the owner of the race circuit that the driver raced for and that driver did not say he is retiring, and that driver put butts in the seats…I make sure he’d still be driving for me…not my competitor. Hence Dana trying to retire Chuck before his final contracted fight.
I think you’ve been drinking too much Dana White Kool-Aid, because you sure seem to think he is worried about fighter safety over money even though I’ve listed many cases that prove he obviously isn’t.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also want to ask you…
Did Dana have Randy’s health and dignity in mind when he signed him to fight at HW after being KTFO twice at LHW? Did Dana have Jon Fitch’s health and dignity in mind when he tore up his contract over the video game deal?
Did Dana have Mark Coleman’s health and dignity in mind when he signed an obviously battered and injured over the hill fighter to a contract?
Does he have Wandy’s health and dignity in mind now that he has been sent to queer street and doesn’t seem to have a chin left?
Does he have Big Nog’s health and dignity in mind now that his lights have been knocked out so many times?
You are kidding yourself if you think this about Dana protecting his fighters. Dana is protecting his investment by forcing a big name, top draw, fighter into retirement……so he doesn’t end up fighting Tito, Babalu, Shamrock, Overeeem, CroCop or Fedor…..at Strikeforce or Affliction.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s true! No way Dana is going to risk Chuck pissing off to Strikeforce or Affliction and fighting Ortiz or whoever and making another promotion big money! Chucks washed up now and not top tier UFC anymore but he’s still a massive draw and is definitely still marketable for other organisations.
by attakdog on Apr 21, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok introvert, I get your point now, and that does seem logical. Dana likes to pull that type of stuff. He won’t do a new deal with fighters after they have finished their contracts, he always seems to do deals when the fighters have 1 fight left on their contract. He pulled that type of thing with Arlovski, and he didn’t take it.
Business is business I guess, which sucks. I still don’t think Chuck should keep fighting. The sport has progressed past his skills, and his age just won’t allow him to keep up.
by sawyer on Apr 21, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Chuck should hang ‘em up…you’re right on that one. I just don’t like how Dana seems to want to make the final call before his last contracted fight….it’s obvious he’s pulling the Arlovski thing with Chuck, and I find it apauling (sp) that he is using the “friend” angle to do it. It’s so blatantly obvious.
Do I blame Dana for doing it for business reasons?…no.
Do I think he is a dick for his tactics?….hell yes.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as you hate Dana, your either Atencio, or one of the Shaws with the Introvert screen name.
by JV on Apr 21, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t hate Dana. I think he is an unprofessional douchebag with a big mouth and fat gut, however. No hate though….just truth.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth would be, Randy asked Dana if he can come out of retirement to fight Tim, cause there was know one else at the time. Truth is Fitch is just not as big a star as he thought he was to sign the game deal. And the truth about what your saying about Dana trying to do to Chuck is pure speculation!
by JV on Apr 21, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro, earlier you were talking of logic and berating someone for using “second-hand” info. Taking the words of the president of the UFC is not second hand. Your point still stands that we need to hear it from Chuck. But you are nothing short of a hypocrite. Calling others illogical when, based on your hate for Dana White, you are stating your opinions as fact…?
by PJJ on Apr 21, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intro IS a Dana hater. Just look into last weeks duels with me.
Anything Dana says or does is totally wrong in his eys – always.
by UFC Champ on Apr 21, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I would love to see Chuck make a move to Strikeforce where the competition is alot easier. There would be so many huge superfights for him there…
Frank Shamrock vs Chuck Liddell
Kimbo Slice VS Chuck Liddell
Those would be two fights Chuck could win and go out on a high note. If Dana White actually was Chucks friend he would let him walk! Let’s be honest how many MMA Fighters retire on there own terms? It’s in Chucks Blood he loves it to much to just walk away!
He also could get fights with Babalu or Tito Ortiz in the lightheavyweight division. Two guy that he has beat in the past but obviously two guys that could beat him.
The Big thing is I don’t see Dana White allowing Chuck to leave, so here’s a totally off the wall idea. What if Strikeforce made a “TRADE” Cung Lee for Chuck Liddell (Dana seems to be in love with this guy and seems to believe Chuck is totally washed up) and Strikeforce gets the biggest money making machine in MMA.
by markie on Apr 21, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dana will not let Chuck go. That’s why he’s forcing him into retirement before his last fight is up. If Chuck walked into Dana’s office and said “I want to fight one more time”…Dana would put another 2 fight contract in front of him….gauranteed.
Money trumps friendship in Dana’s world. Just ask Tito, Randy, and Jon Fitch.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it…your starting to contradict yourself…earlier you said it was all about the $$…maybe it is but I don’t see Dana paying Chuck half of what he was before after going 1-4 in his last five…
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed with Markie…Dana would build a legal wall that Chuck wouldn’t be able to climb over till he was 50 years old…
by McArthur on Apr 21, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s done. he won a round against rashad and a round against jardine, he was winning against shogan before the tko. he beat tito twice by ko and randy twice by ko. He was blasted by rampage twice though. being ko’d 3 times in the last 4 fights it is time to hang it up.
by hatteras on Apr 21, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good points, introvert. Shelving Chuck with one fight left on his contract definitely would prohibit him from seeking another promotion. And it’s not below Dana to pull a stunt like that. It is about control with him.
It didn’t look good for Dana to be dictating Chuck’s future like that as if Chuck were a kid.
by Fred on Apr 21, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m actually very sad for Liddell possibly retiring. Like him or not, he’s a former champion, future hall of famer, and always put on a good show… even if it meant him losing (unlike A.Silva).
I hope he can continue his career in one way or another, he’s a fighter though and through, and would be much happier in life doing so. Maybe he can get things together for a bit of a comeback after the dust settles?
Either way, sad to see him go, even though it might be time that he does retire. All my best to him and I hope to see him continue to fight if at all possible.
by JS on Apr 21, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Introvert is now my favortie poster cause all those are 100% valid points and i agree with him on this…Business is business and money is money and from what ive learned in this life…Money talks and frienship walks…when enough is on the line even your close close close friedns will be gone…people=shit..
by What? on Apr 21, 2009 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rampage, Evans, and Rua. Aren’t those both knockouts? Anywho, give him Luis Cane. He’s on a win streak and I hope Chuck could at least knock him out.
by xxBAxx816 on Apr 21, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Dana White is a money hungry ass-hole. This is exactly the type of shit he pulls that pisses me off. The thing I dont get is people swing prom his nuts and he is a fat bald P.O.S, that only cares about money. This should be a wake up call for all Dana White fans. I agree with introvert. I think this is Dana saying Chuck no longer is a competetive in the UFC, but he is way to big of a name to let go.
by lokie on Apr 21, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL they have some sort of love affair going on, he kissed chuck in the locker room on his head after the fight LMAO. I guess I’m insensitive but I found that kind of funny, even though I was sad to see chuck lose like that.
by nathan on Apr 21, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
chuck liddell was the reason i started watching the ufc.we are both about the same age and if he has aged half as much as i have he is fighting a losing battle against time.he punches slower ,his legs are gone and so is his chin.he has been either knocked down or knocked out in his last FIVE fights.his fighting style worked for so long because of his reaction time and his power the power he still has,the other,no.he is my favorite fighter but i would like to see him retire.
by hddavidson on Apr 21, 2009 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but for a guy that’s done so much for the sport, shouldn’t he be allowed to make the decision?
Could you guys imagine if Wayne Gretzky was forced to retire from the NHL with a year remaining in his contract? What would the reaction be then?
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gretzky should have retired 2 years before he actually did. The difference being he could just skate around with a few short shifts and nobody was trying to kill him while doing it.
This is coming from a Gretzky fan and a Chuck fan. Sometimes you need to be told when to quit because you’re too blind. There was a point in my life when I was blind too, looking back I should have listened way earlier.
by UFC Champ on Apr 21, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure it should be his decision.he can fight as long as a promotion would have him or until the commision wouldnt let him fight.dana does have the say if its in the ufc or not,right or wrong.
by hddavidson on Apr 21, 2009 2:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The right or wrong is about if Dana is trying to black-ball Chuck or not.
I think he is…based on “facts” that he has done it before (AA)…..that’s a “fact”.
by introvert on Apr 21, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is hackleman punch drunk too? he has been ko’d twice? rampage, rashad, shogun = 3. this is ridiculous.
chuck needs to realize that it is over and retire.
dana needs to pay him to not fight in other organizations. hackleman needs to let chuck retire and not milk him for more money.
by COR on Apr 21, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
GUYS what do you THINK SBOUT THIS.Let him fight KEITH JARDINE ONE MORE TIME!
If he beats Jardine Let him fight Silva. If he beats Silva a REMATCH with RAMPAGE!
Atleast give him Jardine!
by CARNAGE on Apr 21, 2009 3:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with what introvert is saying, I think dana wants chuck to retire now so there’s no possibility of him going to strikeforce or affliction, Chucks time has passed, he was great, I think that he should be able to decide if he wants to continue on fighting or not though, dana doesnt need to be announcing his retirement for him, by the way the strikeforce event was better than this last ufc event
by FJM on Apr 21, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My biggest thing is Chuck obviously loves the sport of MMA, and it’s his decision if he wants to continue fighting not Dana Whites.
Dana can force him out of UFC, and he should.
Perhaps they will come to some sort of resolution to this ie: Chuck can fight anywhere he wants but not on ‘LIVE TV’
Dan Severn has been fighting for years on small shows against guys that he destroys. If Chuck isnt ready to hang them up then maybe he could fight on smaller shows that don’t compete with the UFC? just a thought.
It’s Obvious Chuck is not a top 10 Lightheavyweight in the world anymore and I don’t want to see him fight those guys. But Chuck vs Bobby Southworth or Chuck vs “add name here” on a small indy show somewhere would be cool.
by markie on Apr 21, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see the video of him walking into the locker room ending with Dana kissing him? It was very tragic. Heartbreaking. Wow.
by J.R. King on Apr 21, 2009 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
by J.R. King on Apr 21, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Chuck does fight again, 185lbs would be best… He’s not carrying his weight well anymore, being lighter should definitely help his speed and agility problems as he’s aging, plus that drop would require him to get in the best shape he can possibly be in..
by DAVE A on Apr 21, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see Chuck at 39 being able to cut an additional 20lbs. It aint gonna help him with his dwindling speed and reflexes either, which is what he relies on the most for his wins.
by attakdog on Apr 22, 2009 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah Chuck is retired when Dana says he’s retired.lol…he cant fight anywhere else!.acording to Dana….hahaha….Dana is a weirdo and need psychological help…cant imagine a grown man being controlled by another grown man.
in boxing when Erik Morales wanted to make a comeback and Bob Arum didnt want to because of health reasons/ Arum told the media:“he can come back but i wont promote him”
by vera on Apr 21, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
im a huge fan of Chuck…and i dont like to see him being controlled by a fat skinhead..chuck is fearless inside the octagon yet outside he is dictated by Dana White..what a shame hope he just beats the crap out of Dana…theyre situation right now is kinda GAY!!lol
by tearer on Apr 22, 2009 3:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dunno why all this talk about chuck cutting to 185 the dude walks around at 220 and im sure its difficult enough at near forty to make 205 to fight in LHW division.also i want to completely get behind introvert in 90 percent of what hes saying….theirs no way chuck will finish his contract because dana will railroad him so he wont fight for another promotion.chuck liddell despite losing 4 outta 5 is still an insanely massive draw for mma fans on any card any promotion anyday.say strikeforce aquires chuck just the fact they have chuck is enugh to bring millions of fans to their promotion….in effect singlehandedly perpetuating a new mma orginization that might be able to rival the ufc on some level.and hey business is business and if your a business man with a dillema like danas youd railroad chuck too.it makes sense from every angle you want to look at it.but i disagree with all the Dana hate…. the guy use to teach jazzarobics or some shit and now hes president of the foremost global mma promotion on the planet.hey haters hate thats what they do but i say danas the fucking man,and hes gotta make some tough choices
by vividnevets on Apr 24, 2009 11:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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