Nate Marquardt: Georges St. Pierre is the pound-for-pound best, not Anderson Silva

LOL, I mean, seriously.

What was that kid thinking??? And I’m sure that he has several examples of Anderson Silva getting dominated to go along with his claim that GSP has never been dominated…

Fedor has NEVER been dominated, beaten, etc. he trumps both of these guys by a mile… end of debate

Silva had some trouble with some of the Asians in Pride; there was a larger asian guy, (Alexander something), I don’t think it was Otsuka, but maybe it was, but basically the guy laid and prey’d A. Silva all through the fight and Anderson despite a crap load of submission attempts couldn’t lock up anything. Of course there’s the Chonan highlight sub; and then a smaller Asian guy that locked up a sweet triangle on him. Besides, technically, George has less loss’s and has stomped on the only two guys that have beaten him. I’d have to agree that GSP is technically the better fighter; but I don’t think he has the size to beat A. Silva.

isn’t anderson silva one win away from breaking the current winning record inside the octagon. doesn’t that prove how good he is?

anderson has been in trouble in the past..hendo, lutter both won rounds against him..fedor hasnt ever…not saying Silva isnt a better P4P than GSP..but GSP is awful close…if it wasnt for serra he would wouldnt have lost a round..no holes in his game…the fight is gonna happen soon enough to shut everyone up..just like BJ fans were shut up

Not really. He’s only fought 2 ranked opponents during that reign. Wins over Leben, Cote, Lutter and Leites when it happens won’t say much for him.
GSP on the other hand has consistently been fighting, and beating, ranked opponents.

I agree 100%, this is the deciding factor in the debate, it’s the quality of opponets beaten.

GSP has beaten another P4P opponent, and damn near retired the little prick. None of the other P4P’s have done that to another one. It has to be accounted as well.

Case and point right there. GSP is higher than Silva in the P4P rankings.
1. Fedor
2. GSP
3. A.Silva

GSP and Fedor are on the same boat in that they have no weaknesses and have dominated every high ranked opponent they have faced. Fedor gets the edge tho cos he remains undefeated.

Fedor isn’t undefeated though is he and miquel torres is the best p4p easily.

However, using some of the logic from above posts, Fedor is behind GSP due to quality of opponents. There was a 2 year gap where Fedor went from CroCop to Timmay (debatable if ranked high enough)and fought mostly cans.

You’re missing the logic all together! GSP is the best due to his lack of holes. I think he has less holes now (by far) than Fedor. No holes equates to P4P best. Fedor has holes, but wins. There’s a difference. We’ll see a loss from Fedor soon enough, while GSP is going to take on and most likely beat a much bigger Anderson in the meantime.

All good points. But keep in mind you can only base so much in the past. Fighters mature and get better. The big question is how these guys are now… GSP is definitely #1 IMO. What was the last great/world class fighter A.Silva has gone against? And lets face it, UFC has the better talent pool, so there’s only so much Fedor can prove. All I’m saying is GSP is at his prime, on a roll, and proven himself against the best, time and time again (by totally dominating them no less!). Makes sense?

Besides, arguing best P4P fighter is so subjective (and almost pointless), it’s like asking: ’what’s better, an Audi A8 or an F350 with a 8 inch lift?’ One is faster, the other can basically go anywhere, etc etc. Pros and cons that can’t really be compared.

you just listed 2 of rampage jacksons cars HAHA thats funny but a good comparison.. say what you want about fedor basically beinf undefeated hell torres has fought more and has a 1 loss record which he also avenged and to a guy much heavier then he is.. cant argue the competition though because torres fights in a new division where noone can really tell exactly who is number 2-10 but he has beaten guys widely considered to be in the top10 in almost all of his wec fights

audi 8 is waay better! lol

Good point JS, I agree, except that you have to consider that Ford is like the M1 Global of MMA, while UFC is like the Chevy.

That’s not really true. You could say that’s the way to find out who the better fighter is, but not the better p4p fighter. The idea behind p4p is that you’re the most dominant against your own weight class of fighters, not you’d beat everyone else period.

I thought the idea behind p4p was if everybody was the same size and fought eachother the most technically/athletically gifted fighter would come out on top.

Yep.

The thing is, o damn, is they’re not the same size. They could both weigh 185 the day before thye fight, but Silva is the much bigger man, much like GSP was against Penn. So it really isn’t a fair “decider” (George W reference) of who is better P4P.

I believe OD is right….meaning p4p rankings are almost as useless as having these super fights to determin p4p rankings…great fights are possible but thats it

BJ stepped up in weight class and fought a much bigger GSP to try to prove he was p4p best. That fight had meaning and everyone bashed BJ and he fell in the ranks, but GSP stepping up to fight a bigger A Silva wouldn’t have meaning? Doesn’t make any sense. Fedor fights guys who outweigh him by a lot more than Silva outwieghs GSP. If GSP truly wants to prove he is p4p best he needs to step up and fight Silva. If Silva wants to prove he is the best p4p he needs to step up and fight Fedor, its not that ridiculous (Silva walks around at 220, Fedor walks around at 230). Although I don’t see either of those happening. I think GSP knows Silva would dismantle his face with elbows and knees, and Silva will most likely be retired by the time (if ever) Fedor fights in the UFC.

He wasn’t saying who he thought was the better finisher or who had the most ‘entertaining fights’, he was saying who the better p4p fighter is. Totally different question.

I agree with most everything in the post EXCEPT for the 2nd sentence. Sounds like someone forgot about a certain pudgey Russian that is a top, and has been for years, the majority of lb for lb rankings.

Didn’t forget about him Violent Mike. I don’t judge fighters solely on records. His is good but his opponents he has beat prove nothing.

that he has beat lately. But I won’t deny you still have a case putting him there.

Beating two former UFC title holders in under a round proves nothing?

IMO – Consensus is that at the time those two dudes were “UFC Title Holders” that division was extremely weak. Just look at Timmay’s recent calling out of K. Shammy and Ray friggin’ Mercer as an indication of his reputation as a top heavyweight. Fedor must take a step up in competition if he wants to remain relevant in the P4P debate. I just don’t think he cares enough to do that.
Lets hope that Anderson and GSP get through their respective upcoming matches, so that we get a chance to see this portion of the debate settled live ala BJ vs GSP.

UFC is the only organization that makes it’s fighters fight the next best in each division since Pride is gone. Fedor has all you wanna be hardcore MMA fan’s thinking he’s better than he really is, if Cro Cop would of followed him he would be known as the second best HW to you guy’s? Fact is the best holds the UFC belt. All the other belts out their or for those who don’t want to fight the best every fight. Fedor ain’t dumb I give him that, the organization he fights for loses money for their shows as he pockets money for his paper name. hell why fight the best when he can fight anybody and get paid even more. Next fight Fedor vs. Barnett. Then he can say he beat all the has been’s LOL. To bad he can’t say I beat the current …. But then again he makes more money fighting has been’s why wreck a good thing. Cro Cop is kicking himself for not staying behind Fedor’s path.

Re-watch the fight, that isn’t what happened at all. Silva was mounted in the first round and he didn’t get a sweep. Lutter went for a sloppy armbar and gave up top position right before the round ended. Then in the second round Lutter got another takedown but as he was entering Silva’s guard he got caught with an up-kick. He was momentarily dazed and he fell into a triangle. Then after taking some punches and eventually elbows he tapped due to strikes. Anderson most certainly did not have complete control the whole time, he didn’t even have control until the last 30 seconds of the fight.

lmao you got a good point there. Lutter has mass potential by dominating both Silva and Franklin, but too bad rounds last more than 7 seconds.

Perhaps you could suggest 30, 30-sec. rounds to the sanctioning bodies. The bouts are still officially 15 min. and Lutter might make it through 3 or 4 rounds before gassing.

The first one.

GSP is hands down one of my fav fighters, but i don’t believe in “lucky” punches in fights between 2 trained professionals. He threw the punch intending to hit him in the head, he did just that. maybe if Serra had been trying to throw a body punch and ended up hitting him in the head that could be considered lucky, or if he was actually trying to hit the referee and ended up tagging GSP that could be considered lucky, but i just don’t see how a trained fighter attempting to land a punch on another fighters head and doing just that could be called lucky. definitely an upset, probably never happen again if they fought 100 times, but that doesn’t make that punch “lucky”

OK< how ’bout “fortunate”?

LOL.

Obviously when two guys are TRYING to hit each other in the face you could make the case that no punches thrown in a consensual fight are “lucky”.

That being said, it was a flukey shot that caught GSP walking in behind the ear. They fight one hundred times, the fight ends that way once.

I give Serra credit for doing the only thing that gave hima chance to win: coming out swinging for the fences; but he is totally outclassed by Georges and it was evident in their rematch.

So if I aim my swing at the hole and golf a hole in one it’s not lucky? I aimed at it and hit it, after all.

Lucky means I can aim at it 1000 times and maybe once or twice IF I’M LUCKY it’ll go in. Serra could fight GSP 1000 times and he won’t KO him more than once or twice.

So yes, lucky punch.

Pancake head is right on the money, with an awesome analogy. I’ve always told people that if I threw 4892042842 punches at Fedor that eventually one would knock him down/out – but that doesn’t make me the more skilled striker than Fedor, regardles of whether I “intended” to hit him or not – it was just a lucky punch. I can’t punch for crap.

I doubt Serra could outstrike GSP on a regular basis.

I am also one who does not believe it was a lucky punch, I would say he was lucky to win but the punch was not lucky. We know Serra can bang, you only have to watch the Karo fight to see that. GSP and Serra were trading and Serra connected first, and followed up to finish tht fight. No luck involved at all, just sloppy work on GSP’s part.

Amen. And amen to noting that a punch behind the ear that ruins your equilibrium does not equal a weak chin.

that one had me laughing to, thanks kevin and josh

lol! where is that interview?

he said that?

Thats why even though Penn lost to GSP you have to respect the guy for wanting to fight the best, regardless of size.

until he opens his mouth, before and after the fight, i mean beatdown, because it takes 2 to have a fight.

off night for Penn, perfect game plan, i mean way of cheating, because it takes 2 for a fair fight.

gord i was thinking the same thing! “one doesn’t carry muscle, it carries you,” dude thats perfectly said.

but i do believe that gsp is the third best pound for pound fighter. silva is number 2 and fedor is number 1. and if gsp ever fought silva, i think silva would win. but if it does happen, it will be a GREAT fight!

agreed Gord…GSP’s problem with Silva would be his reach and height

what are the odds for that fight? are they out yet?

Wilson is at +220 and Nate is at -300.

good arguement as always BNF but only time will tell…call it a hunch ;)

wow i didnt think nate would be a 3 to 1 favorite… thought it was going to be more like -200 and +130 or something

Ryo Chonan when Silva was 29 by sub.

So you want to account for Chonan’s “flying heel hook” as a hole in Spider’s game? Puckhead, Have you even seen that fight or just checking your facts on Sherdog?

So you want to account for Chonan’s “flying heel hook” as a hole in Spiders’ game?

the same way u put a hole in gsp’s game by putting serra in there…

Actually I doubt that you’ve seen the fight Ground-Game. Chonan had a slight edge before the heel-hook and Bas even said that he was on his way to a decision win.

Anderson’s glaring weakness is his lack of takedown defense. GSP doesn’t have any gaping holes in his game like Silva does. In fact, the Matt Serra fight showed that his chin ISN’T suspect. Sure he can get finished but if people are going to nitpick with the greasing thing than they should also mention Matt Serra’s strike to the back of his head. GSP took a shitload of haymakers before going down but it was obvious that the shot to the back of the head was what did him in. He couldn’t regain his balance.

Serra came out and stormed GSP.

Anderson was winning the Chonan fight up until Ryo lands a miracle move that works maybe 0.5% of the time and has probably only been attempted no more than 100 times in the premier MMA organizations in recent memory.

If I had to call one of them more of a fluke than the other, I HAVE to go with Chonan’s flying heel hook.

And Puck Head, do watch the fight, don’t just google the guys record. C’mon now.

Chonan would have won that fight via decision. The heel hook simply put an exclamation point on it so that people would not forget it.

I’ve been watching MMA for some time Violent Mike, fact is a do remember watching the fight and I did have to look up Silva’s old fights to remember the guy’s name. I have 100’s of fights on tape and DVD from all the fights a have watched. You sound like you remember the fight as clear as day? I’ll have to go back through my videos and watch it again to give you a honest answer if it was lucky are not. GSP vs. Serra was lucky I don’t think anyone here is dumb enough to say Serra is better than GSP, fact is ViolenMike if you think Serra’s fight wasn’t a fluke I must say you know nothing about fighting period LOL. Wasn’t the second time Serra STORMED OUT and got his ass pounded enough proof for you.

I have trouble commenting on this simply because I know that for every valid point I make someone is going to debate it… No one in the UFC has gone 3 rounds with Silva… holes in the game? everyone says they’re there but I have a hard time believing that when everyone that has said that previously has ended up face down on the canvas. Argue that

who you talking to spooner?

As I’ve stated before Andersons “hole” is Asians.

If GSP and Silva fought GSP would try to take Silva down and work on the ground… he would be successful… but then Silva would eventually get the standup or the round would end because GSP isnt a finisher… he couldn’t even finish a battered Fitch. Anderson would come out in the second and make a little boy out of GSP and catch him in the clinch.. come on Andy makes boys out of guys that cut from 230 lBs to fight at 205… get real. GSP just isn’t big enough

Call me crazy but i def think GSP would win this fight. Silva would be on his back immediately just like the Lutter and Hendo fights, but this time GSP is so good at pounding and passing guard that he would mount and pound out Silva for the win. Think about it. His gameplans are too good. He would be crazy to try and stand with Silva and as long as he didnt get caught during the takedown it would be game over for Silva. I mean c’mon Travis “the slug” Lutter had no problems mounting him. He was just so tired by the time he did it that he couldn’t even throw a punch from mount. BJ’s guard is way better than Silva’s and GSP cut through that like butter. Also BJ “The best boxer in MMA”-haha, was completely nullified on the feet by the threat of being taken down. I see the same happening with Silva. If GSP can take Rashad down at will, like his camp says he can, then there is absolutely no one he cant take down (except maybe Lesnar ha).

How many GnP stoppages does GSP have? For the past couple of years, he hasn’t been much of a finisher. Meanwhile, Anderson and Fedor are the two best finishers in all of MMA, and they don’t need to lube up to fight someone smaller than them. In fact, I believe that this guy called Fedor fights men larger than him rather than beating on guys that walk around weighing 30 lbs less than him.

I’m looking forward to GSP having to pick on somone his own size when he meets Thiago Alves. However, Thiago probably won’t be able stop the takedown, and I KNOW Georges will NOT stand with Thiago for more than 2 seconds at a time, he will be shooting from the bell, and after every stand up from him laying on top of Thiago.

If/when GSP wins, at the very least, I want to see Thiago land at least one clean, crisp, hard punch to GSP’s face to see his reaction. I mean, when was the last time GSP was punched in the face? He came out of the Penn fight looking like he just came from another GQ photoshoot, not a scratch on him

Thank God. Someone else on this site that thinks GSP is boring and scared. This guy doesn’t have the balls to fight anyone on the feet. He also got to fight BJ twice at 170 because he knew he would have the weight advantage, how about fighting BJ at 155, huh GSP?? O whats that BJ would destroy you at 155?? That’s what I thought. GSP isn’t close to Silva or Fedor, we’ll see that real soon.

so a fighter isnt allowed to cut weight anymore? GSP walks around at 188. do you know of ANY middle weights that walk around at 188? no. Silva walks around at AT LEAST 200. and the only reason GSP fought bitch ass penn is cause penn is the one saying size dosent matter, size dosent matter. you are an ignorant one ja434650

Choosing not to fight on the feet when you can score takedowns at will isn’t fighting with a lack of balls, it’s fighting smart. GSP’s got some of the best takedowns in the game, he’d be a fool not to use them, especially against someone who has beaten him up a bit standing (even if it was after an eye poke).

I can understand if you think ground fighting is boring, but then why are you watching MMA and not K-1 or boxing?

As for your point about cutting, he fought BJ at 170 because BJ MOVED UP. It’s not like GSP was gunning for BJ. BJ wanted the WW belt back. GSP beat him the first time, though it was close with BJ winning round 1 with strikes (one can argue this was because of the previously mentioned eye poke), and losing rounds 2 and 3 due to gassing badly. This gave him the confidence to try again, this time with cardio.

I don’t even think it would be possible for GSP to cut to 155. The guy is already ripped as hell, he’d have to cut off his leg to fight BJ at LW.

LOL!! Yeah vey intelligent MMA fan’s we got here. First off the reason he doesn’t stay on his feet is because that’s not his style this is MMA, your thinking of boxing ja434650. GSP fighting at 155? LOL are you for real man LOL? Why doesn’t Silva move down to 175?? I hope you know neither of them could lose that much weight and you were just joking? Second ViolenMike GSP beats and beats and beats on his prey, that’s how he enjoy’s it. Bj was sent to the hospital, Serra the second time he decided to storm out he got destroyed. Anyway the fact that you are even arguing he’s not one of the top PforP really shows me your MMA intelligents….none. And ViolenMike storms out with another post…..no your IQ before you Puck with Puck. When you go to bed tonight Violen lay down think about everything you posted, realize how stupid you were then take 10, 20 minutes look over at your BJ poster and go Puck yourself LOL.

VM, “GSP isn’t much of a finisher”, What? In his last 4 fights he finished everyone except for Fitch and Fitch is as tough as they come. When was the last time GSP just laid on someone without doing DAMAGE. MOST of the guys GSP fights are NOT 30 lbs lighter and they certainly are of higher caliber than many of Fedor’s and Silva’s opponents. Hughes, Fitch,Kos and Alves are all as big or bigger than GSP. GSP fights the toughest competition out of the big three, hands down.

Out of his 18 wins, GSP has finished 13 of them…how again is he not a finisher???? I’m not a fan of the pound for pound debates, but lets be honest…WW is a way harder division at this time than MW.

Hahaha yeah VM why KO your opponent when you can submit them by pounding them? I can’t say to many fighters out there can do that to there opponents? Anyway this pound for pound rating is crap. The fact is Bj is the best LW, GSP is the bestWelter Weight, Silva is the best Middle Weight, Evans is the best LHW, and Brock is the best HW. Until someone takes their belt there is nothing anybody can say to argue that(post all you want). Fedor and some of the other fighters look good on paper but until they hold the UFC belt it doesn’t mean sh^t. Since pride has left the only belt that means anything is the UFC belt. Start crying a river Fedorbator’s His fights now are are pointless unless he holds the UFC belt he is another Cro Cop in the octagon.

I wouldn’t say all of them are the best Beaver, They just all happen to be current UFC champs in their respective weight class. Fedor is the Best Heavyweight.

Speaking of accurate strikers, UMMMM, Anderson Silva!!!!!

Look at the statistics, Anderson Silva is much more of a precise striker than GSP. The % of strikes he lands is just ridiculous, just ask Leben!

When speaking of the most accurate strikers in MMA, Anderson’s name is always mentioned, and that was the first time I ever heard GSP’s name mentioned. I think “Some people” may just enjoy looking at GSP’s legs and oversized cup way too much (props to GSP for wearing a normal one against BJ).

Which made me think of something, I need to come up with a good nickname for all the GSP huggers.

Not sure why you looked or remembered. Thats kinda gay VM

LOL. ViolentMike, I’ll ‘corner you’ any day bro!
Some of these posters are WAY TOO into GSP. He’s good and all but take it easy… How about “GSP Cuphuggers”???

LOL the fact is GSP is one of the best fighters in the world, Pound for pound you would have to put in your top 3. What’s funny is your name is ground game it sounds like you hate one of the best on the ground LOL. I think we should get a nick name for all the GSP haters….hmmm BJ’s. Thanks for your input BJ’s.

One word : Crack

Ground Game, which one of the 19 strikes Silva took to TKO Leben was his 1 punch KO power shot? How about the SEVERAL shots he took to take out Franklin? Silva hasn’t KOed anybody with 1 punch and GSP has dropped guys with a punch or kick and finish them also.

Gord- One punch? James “Sandman” Irvin.

Puck:
Read my posts again…“he’s a machine.” = GSP. Don’t hate him at all.

Putting GSP and Spider under a very big microscope, I see “holes” in GSP’s game (see above post) and other than Spider getting controlled on the ground before CHOKING OUT his opponents Lutter/ Hendo.
With Spider that getting controlled temporarily thing is IMO his only hole. Leites is a bad matchup for him, Leites better FINISH, like Lutter didn’t

One things for sure, we have the passionate fans on this site.
Good night all, gotta go to the Slam dunk contest, need my rest. :>

indeed!

I did and we’ll see but in the mean time, look at the Fedor A.A. fight again. Fedor was baiting him into that mistake, if Fedor went to the UFC he would own it Hands Down!

word bk…what an azz for commenting like lucky punches..lol, say something smart gizmo

Of course they didn’t see it coming! GSP was suppose to walk through Serra, but that doesn’t change that fact that Serra was and is still known as a guy with heavy hands.

I know what p4p means. It means you are better AT YOUR WEIGHT than any other fighter is AT THEIR WEIGHT.

I fail to see why a fighter has to fight in other weight classes to determine this.

Moving up to a class where you have a size and strength disadvantage* is unwise and unnecessary to prove how good you are.

*see BJ Penn

P4P means you are better AT YOUR WEIGHT than anyone else AT THEIR WEGHT. You don’t have to go up to THEIR weight to prove you are the best P4P. If it’s not you natural weight class it is not a fair contest. Ask BJ.

A fighter could stay at one weight his entire career and destroy everybody and retire the best P4P in the world.

As the actual definition of it suggests, you are completely wrong in this post. To prove you are the best you actually have to fight fighters at other weight classes. BJ Penn, Henderson, Anderson Silva, Fedor.

Absolutely correct.
The whole argument that Penn is P4P God by switching classes all the time is bogus. So is the fact that Fedor fights people bigger than him. Those are respectable and ballsy traits (more Penn than Fedor, since at weights above Fedor the weight really slows you down somewhat) but it has nothing to do with P4P rankings.

Also, GSP didn’t challenge BJ – BJ challenged GSP. Just because GSP doesn’t move up in weight to fight other challengers doesn’t make him a pussy. Penn moving up in weight and getting decimated just makes him a ballsy but arrogant moron.

Alves will be tough, but Georges will slam him on his back and kick his ass.

If you really like Alves in this fight you should throw down some paper on him. He’s sure to be the underdog.

Im eagerly awaiting that. I only bet on Underdogs… Its not worth risking alot of money on a Favorite for such a small payout.

I can’t see GSP Slamming Alves like he does everybody else. GSP is as skilled as it gets don’t get me wrong but Alves just seems too tough for him. All the skills in the world won’t save you if you get overpowered. GSP knows that all too well, its how he beat Penn the second time.

If Parisyan and Hughes took Alves down, GSP can take Alves down.

And once GSP HAS you down, you’re purty much screwed. Alves’ best chance will be to try to maul him in the beginning of each round with the stand-up. Easier said than done, obviously.

I don’t remember parisyan taking him down But it took everything Matt had to get him down. Matt is a better wrestler than GSP for sure their strength is close but Matt didn’t Slam Alves he barely got him to the mat and when he did he was too gassed to do anything. Plus Alves knocked both of them out.

You think Hughes is a better wrestler than GSP?

Really?

Did you watch their third fight?

I was able to stand next to Thiago at UFC 94 and I’m at about 180+ and Thiago looked like he was close to 200 lbs. of muscle. I’m not saying that GSP will get killed, but the fact that he used his strength to dominate a smaller guy when he fought Penn. Now he’ll have to do it against a bigger guy with strong standup and muay thai.

I’m assuming that it will be GSP vs. Alves….and Anderson vs. Wanderlei at UFC 100.

anderson will knock wandi out. i thought they wouldn’t fight each other.

the arguement of whos a better wrestler GSP or Hughes is going to be an opinion. You can state a case for either one just like you can for their strength comparisons. I just Think Alves is the bigger stronger fighter and GSP’s only chance to win is to sub him but, Alves is too experienced to get caught in a easy Sub. GSP has relied too long on being the bigger faster man and its going to bite him.

I don’t think Anderson will knock Wanderlei out but def snap somethin or choke him out.

Anderson Silva by strikes…..Thiago Alves by strikes or a knee to GSP’s nose.

GSP is a smarter wrestler. That was evident when Hughes fought Alves. After awhile Hughes had nothing left and didn’t even set up the takedown defense…..it would still be the same outcome.