mir is a idiot

Mir is a complete douchebag and I hope that he beats Big Nog, just so Lesnar can rip his head off when they meet again

All you fans of Lesnar are the same fans that love KIMBO “glassjaw” slice. These guys are a joke and there is no room for them in the sport. I love Randy but he is in the wrong weight class and Lesnar exploited that. Mir clowned Lesnar and would do it AGAIN!!

Tell Mir that punching Lesnar’s hands with his face made it look like he got a lucky sub last time. And about the age thing, didn’t Hopkins start after he was 30?

I take offense to the remark saying the same people that pull for Brock ,pulled for Kimbo ,hell no .Brock actally has skills and he just beat Randy ,yet people still do not want to give him respect.Kimbo has always been a joke,and Mir,why are you not talking about the white flashes you saw everytime Brock hit you ,if it was not for the ref saving his ass,he was going to be out in the first 20 sec.So he,and all the people that support him,sit back watch him get destroyed by Brock,that is if he survives Nog(which I doubt)

No.. Hopkins started at age 26 after his incarceration. He didn’t start getting noticed until he was like 38 years old and started to make real money

Mir is right, the odds are against Brock in facing a big submission guy, but what he says is all in vain because the odds are against Frank for beating Big Nog. If all goes as it should (granted, in MMA, it almost never does) we will be crowning Big Nog undisputed champ in a couple fights.

Regal…. 99% of us can not stand Kimbo slice…so go back to Junkie or where ever it is you come from!

Mir is only saying this because he’ll never have to back this up. He knows he’ll lose to Big Nog.

what an idiot..how can a pro MMA fighter be such a douche? he doesnt need to have you KOd in order to beat you…its called 270 lb beast on you dropping hammer fist and the ref stops it..thats how you lose

Man, I can’t believe I’m gonna say this, but I hope Mir beats Nog somehow so Brock can knock Mirs teeth all over the cage. Mirs a cocky s.o.b.

Brock Lesner is a big FAT BULLY. oooohhhhhhh i have muscles so i think i am a bad mother fucker. really???NNNOOOOOOOOO no you are a piece of shit. i hate brock lesner and he is going to LLLOOOOSSSSEEEE! He thinks because he weighs 100000 pounds more than everyone in the UFC that he can come in at heave weight and kill everyone. fuck you brock. Randy is FFFOOORRREEVVVEERRRR the champ!!!!!!!!!! we all know you are a fat bully like on the play ground in third grade!!!!!!!!!!!

100% agreed!

There were guys in prison who started boxing late and became successful. Dwight Braxton, changed his name to Dwight Qawi, was around 30 when he started boxing and he won the lightheavy weight championship.

Lesnar’s been wrestling for a lot longer than the last few years. (And I am referring to his “real” wrestling background).

yeah i think for 22 years brocks been wrestling at high levels

Exactly. Randy couldn’t get the takedown whereas Brock did like 2 or 3 times I think. Now granted, Randy was able to stand it up, but should that really discredit Lesnar? I think not. We all know that Lesnar has a great wrestling pedigree. No one questions that. In all 3 of his UFC fights, he has dropped his opponents with his hands. How many wrestlers have been able to do that with only 4 fights under their belt? Brock nearly got the TKO on Mir just like Brandon Vera did. Lesnar had better work on his stand up if he wants to defeat Nog or Mir because going to the ground is probably the worst thing that he could do with those guys.

I’m not so sure about that. Yes, Brock did get a takedown, but Randy was able to get right back up. On top of that, Randy was able to control Brock and keep him pressed against the cage. Randy would have been able to take him down if Brock didn’t use the fence to keep himself upright. IMO Randy looked like he was wearing Brock down and making him gas, and may have been on his way to another giant upset before Lesnar landed that final shot.

naturalshadow: 100% agreed. The fact that Randy was controlling Brock for sustained periods does in fact mean he out-wrestled him. Wrestling isnt just about getting a takedown, its also controlling your opponent and maintaining dominant position. Which is exactly what Randy was able to do. Had he been able to avoid the KO, I saw him beating Brock for sure because he looked winded and flustered towards the end of the fight.

Yea I agree with naturalshadow, Randy did outwrestle Brock, I’ve never seen someone with that type of size advantage have problems staying on top of a guy 55 lbs lighter and being controlled in the clinch. Couture would definatley have had that TD had Brock not grabbed the fence, both his feet were in the air and he was about to get dumped on his back. And no Lesnar isn’t all that great yet, but if Mir eats another big right hand like in the last fight it’s nap time. It’s hard to root for Mir when he comes off as an arrogant prick.

I just want to add to my post that the reason its such a big deal that Randy out-wrestled him at times is due to the weight difference because it shouldnt have happened.

I doubt anyone would make a big deal about it if they were the average 10lbs apart but it was the equivalent of seeing Frankie Edgar shine against Matt Hammill.

Also, wtf is Mir’s point about Brock having to grab the cage to avoid the take down?? He doesn’t have near the wrestling pedigree that Randy or Brock has, no one’s going to be grabbing the cage anytime soon to stop a Frank Mir take down; maybe the other way around.

I’d go watch some Mir fights if I were you.

Hardonk?

Exactly, “Hardonk?” about sums it up, since when does he have any type of ground game??

I agree with Machine and naturalshadow. Very well said. Randy being as much smaller than brock as he was, controlled Brock much better than Brock controlled Randy. Randy is the man. Still thinks he has the best chance at Fedor, except for maybe NOG, which we have already seen.

i don’t see anyone else saying randy out wrestled him, maybe it was close but no way out wrestled him.

Watch the attempted Randy takedown carefully. Brock didn’t use the cage to prevent it. He had his hand in the cage PRIOR. The ref warned him. He took it out. Randy exploded for the takedown. They moved LATERALLY ACROSS THE CAGE a number of feet as Brock hopped on one foot. How can he be holding the fence preventing a takedown and moving along it at the same time? He wasn’t holding the fence during Randy’s takedown attempt. Watch it.

After the attempt, Brock stuck his finger back in the cage, and the ref told him to take it out and he did. In no way did he prevent a takedown by grabbing the cage.

Now Kenny Florian one fight earlier, that’s a different story …

I guess we’ll all agree to disagree on this one! I’ll take nothing away from Brock, he’s improving and will be a force for a long time, I just feel he should have finished Heath, after that punch )in the first) he didn’t attempt anything! He had his back etc! He wasn’t dominating Randy at all up until he caught him, and mir beat him! If his learning curve is like they say, he could possibly go unbeaten from here on out, I just don’t see it happening. His ground game is weak.

@Kevin

I see nothing crazy about Randy being able to control Brock against the fence. That is Randy’s bread and butter. He is better able to do that type of control on someone than anyone else in MMA. Maybe even in the world. Randy was an olympic greco roman wrestler.

Also, did you get my myspace request?

@Everyone who says Brock was looking gassed

Bullshit. I watched the fight a few times because of this post… it is simply not true. He looked fine.

KEV. alot of fighters haven’t finished heath. you also have to remember that the herring fight was only brocks 3rd fight, so i dont think he was taking as much chances as he will in the future. as far as mir goes, frank greatly benefitted from the undeserved(imo) mazagotti stand-up.

Here’s a good test of how you view whether Randy outwrestled Brock. Picture the first round exactly as it was, but with Brock as Randy and Randy as Brock. If Randy took Brock down twice, and was on top doing GnP, while Brock briefly got Randy’s butt on the mat for a second, tried taking his back, and was thrown off, then missed another takedown attempt, would anyone ANYONE say Brock outwrestled Randy? No way. They’d say Randy OWNED Brock. It’s only when you filter the action through the lens of “one guy’s 45 and giving up 60 pounds” that you can view it as close.

Pancake; then your saying size had absolutley nothing to do with this fight or fighting in general? It’s not the least bit impressive that Couture at 220 lbs is holding his own and imo outwrestling the 275lbs guy with the wrestling background? Give me a break. IMO Couture should have been rag dolled, but he controlled Brock in the clinch and nullified both take downs. I got no clue why everyone is so hell bent on taking anything they can away from Couture’s performance in that fight. Its just the Randy haters trying to say either he didn’t do anything against Brock or outwrestle him. It’s like putting Matt Hamil or Rashad Evans vs Sherk or Tyson Griffin and then not being able to dominate a 155er in the wrestling department, except there was an even bigger difference in size between Couture and Lesnar.

Pancake; then your saying size had absolutley nothing to do with this fight or fighting in general? It’s not the least bit impressive that Couture at 220 lbs is holding his own and imo outwrestling the 275lbs guy with the wrestling background? Give me a break. IMO Couture should have been rag dolled, but he controlled Brock in the clinch and nullified both take downs. I got no clue why everyone is so hell bent on taking anything they can away from Couture’s performance in that fight. Its just the Randy haters trying to say either he didn’t do anything against Brock or outwrestle him. It’s like putting Matt Hamil or Rashad Evans vs Sherk or Tyson Griffin and then not being able to dominate a 155er in the wrestling department, except there was an even bigger difference in size between Couture and Lesnar.

I’m a huge Randy fan, and was impressed with his performance. I agree he didn’t get ragdolled and “held his own” given the size disadvantage, and may have even won the fight in later rounds. I just can’t agree that an objective viewing of the action leads to any conclusion other than Lesnar won the first round convincingly. The size difference is an unfortunate disadvantage for Randy, but the fact are they’re in the same weight class.

I guess it depends on how you look at it, if your going to score points for take downs where Brock did absolutley no dmg and had no submission attempts fine, but if I’m scoring I think it’s more impressive that the smaller guy gets out from under the 275er twice. I’d give it to Couture based on which feat was more challenging/skillful.

Well, I guess if you want to score a fight on a curve and not based on the action, go nuts. Meanwhile three judges gave it to the guy who controlled.

The UFC isn’t Pride, they don’t give a fighter credit for fighting someone who’s bigger than they are. If Randy didn’t want to be at a big size disadvantage he would fight at LHW and not HW. And I think the takedown gets more credit than the guy getting back up, just like submission attempts are worth more than escapes.

Also, you can’t say Brock vs. Randy is the same as a LHW vs. a LW. Even though it might be the same difference in weight, the 50 pound difference is a much greater percentage of the LW’s overall weight than for a guy who weighs 220 pounds. Same as you wouldn’t be bringing up what a huge advantage the bigger guy has if it was a 400 pound guy fighting a 350 pound guy. It definitely makes a difference, but the comparison isn’t valid.

Amen. Also, where does grading on a curve end? If a boxer with no jujitsu gets his back taken by a bjj blackbelt in the first 30 seconds and spends the rest of the round narrowly avoiding a rear naked choke, are you going to score the round for the boxer, saying “it’s more impressive that a guy with no bjj can nullify a black belt”? Or are you going to be sensible and say one guy dominated the round 10-8?

Size, skillset, conditioning, etc. are all things one guy may possess a definitive advantage in. But that’s THEIR ADVANTAGE. Not something to be held against them in whether they “should have” done better given their advantage.

GREGC. once again, good point. comparing a lw to a lhw is not like brock and randy, not even close.

Pancake: you’r a very smart dude, you make a lot of sense with teh grading on a curve thing and it forces me to take a step back as a Randy fan and try to be a bit more subjective.
However, I think when they say Randy outwrestled him, it is becasue of this: Brock got the take downs, but couldn’t control, Randy scrambled, and got himself out. So I give the purely ground aspect to Brock. But when they say outwrestled it seems to me many are including the stand up clinch, which techniqually is wrestling, greco roman more specifically, and while the 2 were agaisnt the fence, curve or not, I saw it in Randy’s favor the whole time.
So it all depends, I think it was very even, with it slightly leaning in Randy’s favor more and more as the fight went on(besides the take downs), until the big shot of course.

you think i got time for that?

I’ll say it. Right now? NO but down the line when that fight has a chance of happening Brock will tear that Russian fool apart! The size will be just too much for Fedor and by the time that fight happens, I don’t see Brock stupid enough to follow Fedor to the ground in order to fall into a sub. Brock by decision or TKO. Honestly, I don’t see how more people DON’T see that.

they don’t see it anthony because they know better

“I don’t see how more people DON’T see that.

Because, unlike 99% of the top heavyweights in the sport, Fedor is extremely well rounded. He has much, much better striking than Lesnar, and that is where Fedor would beat him handily at this point (I’d assume Lesnar would want to sprawl and brawl, avoiding the ground game).

Lesnar hits VERY hard, though, and has all the tools if he keeps improving. But we’re talking someone who has easily outstruck K1 caliber strikers, and who will submit Lesnar if that fight hits the ground. So until/unless Lesnar can become a “world class” striker, I don’t see him beating Fedor.

haha word. You had at “Fedor has outstruck K1 caliber strikers”. Not in his peaking of days will Lesnar outstrike the Russian.

lol you mean lose or that the belt is loose around his waist?

In his motorcycle accident.. I thought he hurt his knee.. not his head??

A few screws came loose also – happens

haha well I acknowledge that the UFC does not have the top heavy weights in the world on their payroll so how can he be the champ?

Nope, he probably just acknowledges EVERY HW Top 10 list

Yeah haha I do and then I take them and their reasoning into account and form my own opinions. That such a crime?

Just because you are the best in the world does not make you the world champion. Who is the best football team in the world? Brazil. Who are the world champions? Italy. Mayweather is not a world champion in boxing (at least I dont think), yet he is the best in the world at his weight.

That’s fair. I would consider the champion of the UFC to be the world champion because they are the preeminent mma organization in the world. However, that certainly doesn’t mean that their champion is the best in the world at their weight class. Fedor is a perfect example.

Ahh I hear you but how can we know for sure unless UFC pulls the stick out of their ass and co promote or at the very least let Fedor compete in his Sambo deal? I just dont believe that just because somebody can beat all the UFC’s thin HW division has to offer they are called the WORLD champ.

Why doesnt Fedor go to the UFC then? What’s a years worth of sambo competition to cementing yourself as the #1 HW in the world. He is the one who is calling himself the best in the world… it should be up to him to prove it.

he already is the #1 hw

I donno about Musket but I believe its because the UFC always wants more than that. If Fedor walks into the UFC and tears the champ apart(not saying he will for sure) the UFC isnt going to let him just walk away and do what he pleases. They own the “champ” so in the end ur not the champ. In the end tho its all shit and wont happen. Just my drunken opinion so take it for what its worth there lad. Cant wait for me boy Franklin to take on Hendo here in IRELAND ill tell u tho.

One question to solve this little yet ongoing debate

If Fedor isn not the best heavy weight in the world….who is??

tHERE IS NO DEBATE! This is the dumbest debate ever. The one thing that is not debatable is who the best Heavyweight in the world is. Its Fedor! Fact! Take a poll of all the fighters in the UFC and ask them who the best Heavyweight in the world and I promise that 85% would say Fedor!

Personally, I dont ever want to speak to anyone that doesnt acknopwledge Fedor as the best HW in the world because if you dont know that Fedor is the best than I probably shouldnt be wasting time talking to!

he’s the best RIGHT NOW because you just can’t make a case for anyone else that betters his case BUT when Arlovski beats him in 6 weeks it will be Arlovski. Am I right? I mean if the Pitbull beats the man, he obviously has to become the man, you would all agree with me on that?

K, so after that and Fedor continues his fall from grace, guys like Nog, Mir and Lesnar, hell even Gonzaga and Barnett (if he ever fights anyone of note) will be in the running now.

hahaha….eeeaaasssyyyy there big guy.

When did this become about whether or not Fedor is the #1 HW fighter in the world? I don’t think anyone in this little discussion has made the claim that he isn’t the best in the world. This was about who the WORLD CHAMP is. It was just a question of whether you can be the champion of the world if you’re not the champion of the preeminent mma organization in the world.

Best organization is the UFC, everyone knows that. The REAL: UFC champ is Big Nog. Fedor literally DESTROYED big NOG the UFC champion twice already and he went on to beat EVERYONE else that has been in his way! No other heavyweight in the world can say this. The only other HW that can even say that they beat Nog is Barnett, But Nog beat him as well.

This is not debatable… Fedor is the best HW in the world, if you cant see that, then u need to do your homework!

UFC champions are not world champions;

There are about 10 other mma orgs which each have a word “World” in their champion’s title – does that make them all number 1’s in the world?

So the argument is that UFC is the prominent MMA org – therefor when they use title “World Champion” it matters.

- Not really – if you dont have best fighters in the world – the belt means crap. UFC HW division is a joke & so is this title contention – until they get Fedor & Herman & Big Foot to fight for title – it does not matter who holds UFC HW belt – as at best they are #2 in the world

I think everyone is underestimating Lesnars intelligence…. I am not saying he is Steven Hawking but the guy isn’t as stupid as everyone thinks.

Good, because I don’t think Steven Hawking would do particularly well in the cage.

This is true bout Hawking and I dont mind the big guy myself cuz he can entertaining sept for that god awful Crazy Horse fight but he is simple minded. The mans threats sound like those of a wee lads. Makes me laugh.

Lol….you know what I meant P-DUB

Sorry Psyqo, I just pictured him pushing buttons to punch people and saying ‘take that, you bastard,’ in a robotic monotone.

LMao!

For being a “genius” your post sure doesn’t make much sense. I am assuming you were referencing the fact that I said Brock will destroy Frank in a rematch. Funny thing about this type of forum is that people tell their opinions. Could you imagine how boring it would be if we were all “logical”.

Lesnar is no world class striker, but the power is unreal. I remember Heath coming to a stop somewhere near Barstow after Lesnar hit him. Let’s not forget Heath was fighting at minimum 260 lbs.

Beeyd, you’re assuming Brock has not gotten any better at all since his first fight with Mir, which is obviously not the case. If Mir happens to beat Nog and has to fight Brock again, Brock will knock him all over the cage. To use your narrative style of their first fight, it will be punch to the face, Mir falls, Brock makes him stand back up, repeat until Mir quits/is decapitated.

I don’t doubt that Brock is getting better, but let’s face it, it takes years upon years upon years to reach the submission mastery of guys like Mir and Nog. Mir even said after the first fight he was surprised that Brock took him to the ground, and he was planning on working leg kicks on Brock. I think if they fight a second time Brock will be hesitant to take Mir down, and Mir will do exactly what is game plan the first time around…work leg kicks, and frustrate Brock, who will eventually again take Mir down, and get submitted.

But all of this is kind of moot, because I don’t think Mir will beat Nog. And Nog has an amazing chin.

It does take years to develop the kind of BJJ mastery that Mir and Nog have, but I don’t think that’s what Brock is going for. I see him more trying to develop BJJ like Sean Sherk. He’ll train to avoid submissions and maybe catch someone in a RNC if he takes their back. It’s often said that it’s far easier to learn submission defense than offense, so I think it’s the right strategy to take.

he hel his own aganst brock in the wrestling i wouldn’t say he out wreslted him, how many take downs did he get?

I think this kevin plays with himself too much!

compairing chuck and randys to kimbo’s nuthugger is messed up mike

i wouldnt doubt this beingg the case. This is upsetting to me. I did leave Maia out of the list above. Leites should have to go thru Maia or any of the 4 (henderson, bisping, okami, or franklin)to warrant a title shot. Of course I will watch Silva fight Leites because I love to watch Silva fight, but I would much rather watch him fight somebody who represents a threat to him.