Dana White: Brock Lesnar vs Randy Couture late stoppage 'crossed the line'
by MMAmania.com on Nov 17, 2008 10:41 PM EST
89 comments
Props: Los Angeles Times
Quoteworthy:
"The ref [Mario Yamasaki] was going, ‘Eh, is [Couture] OK?’ Mario was trying to give him time [to recover]. There’s a fine line between that and [allowing] too many punches. When I saw Randy go back down, I thought we had crossed that line."
UFC President Dana White indicates that Randy Couture was given perhaps too much time to recover after Brock Lesnar dropped and stormed him with about 30 unanswered hammer fists and elbows during the main event at UFC 91: "Couture vs. Lesnar" on November 15. In the post fight press conference Lesnar "dodged" the issue [even though he said he was waiting for the stoppage] and Couture said it was all good. It didn't appear to be too much -- anything less and fans could have been screaming it was too early. Then again UFC 91 received unprecedented mainstream media coverage, which is perhaps a bit alarming with such a finish. Steve Cofield takes it a step farther, asking if the stoppage could actually hurt UFC's chance to get consistent coverage from ESPN. Thoughts?
Photo: Los Angeles Times
0 recs |
89 comments
Email
Print
Comments
i didn’t think it crossed the line. the ref gave randy a little more time because he’s a seasoned vet and he wasn’t defending himself. i agree that if it had been stopped early that there would have been quite a few on this site saying just that.
by kitsunex on Nov 17, 2008 10:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was title fight. Plain and simple. Everyone including dana would have been bitching if it was stopped early. If it was Nog would it be considered late stoppage? Referees talk to fighters before hand.
by NameNotRequired on Nov 17, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
randy didn’t die, so it’s all good.
by mikeybear on Nov 18, 2008 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dana is saying this for one reason, to appease casual fans who are now getting turned onto the sport due to mainstream coverage. I hardly ever call out officials for early stoppages, and saw nothing wrong with this stop.
You “older” guys, remember when a “hammer fist” was considered hitting like a girl? look at Randy’s face, no girl shots there!
by kevin on Nov 18, 2008 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha I spit water out when I read that. My thoughts exactly though. Randy isn’t a newcomer to fighting. the ref was talking to him, you can see it. He got hit enough to show he wasn’t getting out of it. Any earlier and people would bitch it was stopped early.
by Mike Smith on Nov 18, 2008 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hammerfist, forearm, whatever. when they’re being delivered by a guy the size of lesnar, they’re gonna ring your bell!!!
by allamerican on Nov 18, 2008 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problems with the refereeing in that title fight. Much better to have a Mega fight stopped late then early!
Dana needs to stop Bitching, could you imagine the ramifications that would have followed had the “Biggest fight in UFC history” ended prematurely?
by john on Nov 18, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely correct. I actually thought at first that maybe it was a little early considering Brock’s strikes seemed so short and innefective. But when Randy tried to get up and fell back over I realized that the stoppage was perfect.
by DDT on Nov 18, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I was thinking the same way at the end of the fight.
by naturalshadow on Nov 18, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am gonna have to disagree with dana. I thought it went fine, the punches werent doing THAT much damage. he had his hands up and was deflecting a good amount of them.
by Dayvet on Nov 17, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect stopage, now if Brock had Couture mounted and was raining in straight punches, that’s a different story.
by THORAZINE on Nov 17, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed at one point Randy was grabbing his leg….never even thought about the stoppage before this….
by Robert on Nov 18, 2008 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok it was a bit long but but did sould it hurt the UFC with ESPN or any other net work or media out let ???HELL NO . There was not even blood drawn, Randys arms where up . Other factors could have made the stoppage worse. So stop whinning ESPN and or other media . MMA is going to be the biggest combat sport wheather or not your on the wagon.
by mma forever on Nov 18, 2008 8:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Now this way we know it was for sure over with no what -ifs! good stoppage imo.
by brac on Nov 18, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My comment didn’t go where it was suppose to so there might be some confusion. I agreed with the stoppage. This way we know it was over with no what-ifs. This is the way all seasoned vets should be treated as well as title fights. I hate fights getting stopped to early. If it would have been stopped earlier we would all be crying what if they hadn’t stopped it, could have Randy survived. This way we know for sure, Randy is fine (he made it to the after party) end of story.
by brac on Nov 18, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dana is a looser he wanted Randy to loose from the begining thats why he is saying that . How many of you have seen refs let the fight go longer than that with guys like Joe Stevenson bleading like hell and the fight wasn’t stopped i think is was stopped early Randy got up right away and he was fine and they were not hard punches. Brock hits like a girl for how big he is and how many punches he threw Randy should have been out cold and he was no were near out Dana!Brock will loose that belt as fast as he got it unless they give him a nobody to fight……
by Adam on Nov 18, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah exactly. Veterans like Couture and Nog are given every chance to defend themselves and recover. Nogueira was on queer street when Heath hit him and particularly when Tim clocked him and tried to follow up.
I imagine the referees really don’t want to make a supposed ‘early stoppage’ against the experienced vets like Couture and Nog. Imagine the uproar if the ref controversially stopped a title fight supposedly prematurely with a GSP, BJ or Anderson in it. Think along the lines of the Vera Werdum fight, you don’t want a crappy stoppage like that in a title fight. The fighters are probably given a little extra time in the title fights so they can’t come out afterwards and call bullsh!t on the decision. Rightly so too.
by RobH86 on Nov 18, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyways, given the situation I don’t think it was a late stoppage. I think it was a fine.
by RobH86 on Nov 18, 2008 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno i kinda agree w. dana. he waited wayyyy to long. he gave him the extra time and then some. i was cheering for randy and i found myself screaming at the tv stop the damn fight
by phil on Nov 17, 2008 10:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lol, the guy is/was the champ, theyre not gonna stop it unless hes for sure not defending himself
by brendan on Nov 17, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry but you’re a tool.
by BAH-TEE-STAH! BAH-TEE-STAH! on Nov 18, 2008 3:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your name sounds more like a tool mate…
by Syd[a.k.a. "The Negation"] on Nov 19, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it was a good stoppage, i almost complained it was early ahaha. if it was a rookie, then maybe i could understand it being a late stoppage, but its randy and for the gold.
by mmanutz on Nov 17, 2008 11:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the stoppage was borderline late but you have to give a champion like Couture a little bit of leeway and that’s what Yamasaki did. I think it was fine. And you know what? If people at ESPN can’t handle a little ground n’ pound then get them the fuck outta here.
by Anthony on Nov 17, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the stoppage was fine, atleast randy was able to try and get up, iv seen many fights where the guy is out cold and had to take 3/4 following punches, thats too much!! however it looked like randy was trying to defend himself, he wasnt out just hurt theres a difference!
by mo on Nov 17, 2008 11:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was a little late but not that bad.
The Hendricks stoppage was worse.
by DirtyML on Nov 17, 2008 11:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That one was terrible. Gonzaga dropped the guy, Il Moustache moved in to end it and backed out, leaving an near-unconscious Hendricks to take an undefended shot.
by PW on Nov 18, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The stoppage was acceptable. My issue is that Lesnar did not deserve the fight whatsoever. There are many other UFC heavyweights who were more deserving of the title fight. Lesnar’s record did not merrit the title shot. I understand Dana’s business appeal to get more people to purchase the fight. Since Frank Mir is doing the UFC Fighter series thus Mir was not given the title shot which he deserved/deserves more than Lesnar- Mir did beat Lesnar. I thought Randy should have waited for Fedor- that would have been a better fight- Randy vs. Fedor- which may never happen now. If it does, Randy is far too slow for Fedor now thanks to the legal b.s.
by JP on Nov 17, 2008 11:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mir deserves a shot?? Lulz!! People who lose to Pe de Pano and Ian Freeman shouldn’t be in the big leagues period. Everyone knows Brock didn’t earn the fight, yet his wins over Heath and Randy are already more impressive than anything Mir has ever done, so…He won that fight with Lesnar because of lack of sub knowledge. The stoppage was fine and fuck ESPN, we don’t need them for shit.
by Mrs.Featherbottom on Nov 17, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was so undeserving he pounded out your hero in the second round.
by PW on Nov 18, 2008 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JP – Dude, just like Brock said before the fight. It isn’t about whether he deserves it. The opportunity was presented to him, and he took it. If any other fighter had been offered a shot at Randy Couture, they would have taken it too.
The Couture vs. Fedor fight was never going to happen anyway.
Regarding the legal B.S., the fault lies squarely with Randy Couture. It was a miscalculation on his part, and it just wasn’t meant to be.
by MMACrossifre on Nov 18, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of comment is this? Post fight, “He didn’t deserve the shot, but he won anyway” I’d say based on the fact that Lesnar won this fight with relative ease would be enough in everyones mind on this site to say he deserved the fight. Maybe you could have said that before the fight took place but post is another story. Also Mir was schedueled to face Nog in TUF before Randy even came back, Mir wasn’t robbed of anything if anybody was robbed it was Nog who is the real title holder and deserved to skunk Randy before anyone.
by Cogito Ergo Sum on Nov 18, 2008 7:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ehhhh kind of hard to say he didn’t deserve the title shot after he went out and won the title! Did I think he deserved it. No only Big Nog deserved to fight Randy in my opinion.
Lol at Mir deserving a title shot!
Other than his win over Lesnar his last noteable win was against Tim Silvia losing to Brandon “The Lie” Vera.
Its times like this I wish there was a cruiserweight division at around 235. Pound for pound Brock is way down the list but because of the huge gulf in weight between heavyweights he’s a big force. He’s the equivalent of a big 205er in heavyweight. I may be mistaken but Carwins the only other notable heavyweight at the moment that has to cut. Others are piling on fat for the extra bit of weight.
by MMAGreen on Nov 18, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t taking the hits, but they didn’t seem too strong. At one point, it looked like Couture was going to come back and recover, but Lesnar just pushed him back down, and at that point I wanted the fight to be stopped. Or stopped when Couture just crumpled to the mat.
by Goomba on Nov 17, 2008 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was a good stoppage by Yamasaki. I’m just glad Steve Mazagatti wasn’t reffing the fight.
by KAS on Nov 17, 2008 11:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Better that stoppage then many of the other early ones we’ve seen.
by Enniskillen on Nov 17, 2008 11:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, considering all the awful bad early stoppages, specially from that ref Miragliota, that one was perfect, frankly, anything less and it might be considered an early stoppage.
by Goethe on Nov 18, 2008 5:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, perfect timing in the stoppage.
by RedDog on Nov 18, 2008 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Stoppage. Randy is super experienced and the Ref was giving him the extra time that he’s earned to recover and Randy was defending himself by trying to deflect the shots. He just couldn’t deflect enough of them.
I’d agree that anything less and we’d all be bitchin’ about the early stoppage and how Brock won’t let Yamasaki ref his fights, either.
by Freddy on Nov 17, 2008 11:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Ref did just fine I wanted to see that old geezer get pounded by The new Heavyweight Champion Of THe World Brock Lesnar!!! N beside if Brock got rock and down I bet You that Yamasaki would stop the fight Immediately!
by St. Amour on Nov 17, 2008 11:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
mazzagati wheres the moustage at you bitchass mofo fuck you!
by Colin D on Nov 17, 2008 11:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yamasaki is one of the best refs in the business. The stoppage was fine. Randy was fine and speaking coherently with Joe Rogan a few minutes later and the end was not controversial. What more can you ask for?
by Pantherhare on Nov 17, 2008 11:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Border line… Maybe? Over the line… Dana pandering to the dollar!
by TappedUpPair on Nov 18, 2008 12:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
As i was watching i felt it should have been stopped a little bit sooner. HOWEVER, Randy is a seasoned vet and can take damage. Had it been stopped sooner everyone would have been outraged! so in that aspect it was a PERFECT stoppage.
i agree with Dana in the part that when Randy tried to get up then fell back down i was like “oh shit.”
BIG JOHN is coming back!
would like to see Big John make his UFC debut (as his first assignment is in another organization in the coming weeks) in the GSP vs Penn II fight!
by SoCalStunNa on Nov 18, 2008 12:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yamasaki is the best ref ive seen! F**k you Dana!
by Tony on Nov 18, 2008 12:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I dont ever remember seeing a controversial early stoppage in a yamasaki oficiated fight he always lets the fighters decide the winner and loser
by dia mette on Nov 18, 2008 12:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No ish. I was screaming (during what time should have been the stoppage) that I hate this ref. I hat Mazzagati (okay, I was drunk and got him confused with Maz. but you get the point). Should have been stopped sooner.
by the matt king on Nov 18, 2008 1:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s a “bloodsport”. If you and Randy can’t handle a little a$$ whoppin’ then WWE is looking for a few more fans. Oh, wait. There is alot of blood there too. Well how bout Spongebob Squarepants. There’s a nice calm nonbloody thing to watch. “Good one, Patrick”
by Brian "BROCK IS MY DAD" on Nov 18, 2008 7:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was going on too long when I was watching it. I think 20 undefended hamhock-fists would of been plenty. That’s
a 45-yr old cranium. I’m surprised he didn’t split his melon.
by observer on Nov 18, 2008 1:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stoppage was fine I’ve seen some fights go an extra couple seconds too long and you know it when you see it you don’t have to stop and think should he have stopped it sooner, anyone see Lawler vs. Trigg.
by Robert on Nov 18, 2008 2:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that’s why you’re not a ref. You thought that was fine? Not perfect, but not “fine.”
by the matt king on Nov 18, 2008 3:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
fuck off the line, i rather see that than a early stoppage
by Daddy Lupo on Nov 18, 2008 2:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If the ref stopped it earlier, then every Couture fan would be complaining about how it was an early stoppage and how the UFC is fixed and how Dana White was secretly in on it to get back at Randy for holding out.
It was a PERFECT stoppage. If you don’t want extra punches to your face, then don’t get in the cage! It’s that simple.
by Kevin on Nov 18, 2008 2:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Spend alot of time on the “matt” huh? Does Matt enjoy it as much as you?
by Brian "BROCK IS MY DAD" on Nov 18, 2008 7:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Stoppage’ brings me back to the days of Big John McCarthy.. It was necessary to give Randy time to attempt to recover. I think these are the circumstances necessary to bring in Fedor for a one SUPER fight deal.. Dana would never allow fedor to fight for the title because of his unwillingness o be held down to a single organization. best bet is to give Randy what he wants.. a fight with fedor in the UFC organization. Win or lose mose likely a loss but UFC will have less to lose. Back to topic at hand Yamasaki did a great job. Best ref in the UFC at the moment.
by Joel on Nov 18, 2008 4:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it was a great fight and thats all that matters. randy landed 2 big punches that didn’t even phase him and the stoppage was good. i knew when mario was reffing we wouldnt see an early stoppage for this one
by markg on Nov 18, 2008 4:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The stoppage may have been a little late however Randy is a vet. Guess Dana has not watched the GSP fitch fight too many times. that fight could have been stopped at least 4 times. No fighters should take a beating like that.
by EMM on Nov 18, 2008 7:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Randy got his teeth loosened or something. He mentioned it to Rogan at the end. That may have happened during that lengthy stoppage. The referee’s job is to protect the fighter’s from unnecessary punishment. I can’t honestly say that was done here.
by MrFyer on Nov 18, 2008 8:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think it was a late stoppage, the hammer-fists Lesnar was landing didn’t seem too powerful, he was rathering peppering him with them but landing them enough to force the ref to end it. I think Dana didn’t want Randy to get a chance and recover so he can beat the new poster-boy Lesnar who was starting to gas.
by Belisarius on Nov 18, 2008 8:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
well, lets face it, we all knew it was over as soon as randy hit the ground and brock “assumed the position”. i wouldnt say that it was a late stoppage at all though, randy was still trying to recover. i think it was a good stoppage because anymore of those hammerfists and randy could have ended up retiring due to someone else!
by allamerican on Nov 18, 2008 8:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ask Mir if it was too late of a stoppage. Mir was in that same situation, survived and came out on top. If he stops the fight any earlier and Randy springs right up, you would hear a completely different argument.
by VNDK8 on Nov 18, 2008 9:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
no he wasn’t.. Brock dropped Randy hard and the stoppage i think was just 1 second too late or something so i think it was cool.. the stoppage in Tito vs Chuck 2 was more controversial
by RoB on Nov 18, 2008 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was rooting for Randy, But there was way to many unanswered blows. That fight should have been stopped earlier. I don’t know what fight you guys saw, but look at the average TKO stoppage and watch this fight again. Imagine if Randy would have recovered with all that time but just 1 second before the REF stopped it, how unfair would that be? This fight should have been stopped easily 2-3 seconds earlier
by ozzy on Nov 18, 2008 9:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dana’s just toeing the line for ESPN basically. Everything he does and says right now is to kiss up to them.
by introvert on Nov 18, 2008 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jesse Holland (MMAmania): So let me ask you then if a fighter like Tito or Chuck is in all kinds of trouble would you let it go a little longer before stopping it as opposed to someone who doesn’t have the experience or is it the same across the board?
Steve Mazzagatti: I definitely give more leeway to the top guys because they’ve proven themselves. These guys who train so hard for so long need to know and even the fans need to know that they won or lost. Take a guy like Forrest Griffin man he fights his ass off but he got caught it happens but you gotta make sure they lost.
by Jesse Holland on Nov 18, 2008 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree wuth Mazz. If you are a seasoned veteran who has proven his ability to sustain damage then you let it go longer. If you are an up-and-commer then you don’t let it go as long because maybe you can’t take the damage very well.
by DDT on Nov 18, 2008 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To be honest, I surprised to even see an article like this… though I can understand the concern with ESPN and UFC still trying to escape the label of ‘human cock-fight’. Either way, like so many had posted earlier, I don’t believe it’s a problem, the stoppage was good and sufficient time was given for Couture to recover (which I wish would happen more often) especially considering it was a title fight. Props to Yamasaki for making some good decisions.
by JS on Nov 18, 2008 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see Demian Maia and Nate Quarry kiss on the mouth? That’s too hot for mainstream!
by Gankaho on Nov 18, 2008 11:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
haha… i caught that too. nate totally went in for it!
by allamerican on Nov 18, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
i’m sure steve cofield is hoping that espn will be turned off by this and back off of the heavy coverage so he can keep his goofy table outside the events!!!
by neon on Nov 18, 2008 11:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
When I watched it the thought of an early or late stoppage never entered my mind. I was frankly surprised to see this story. Does anyone recall a questioning of the stoppage before the press conference?
DW: “When I saw Randy go back down, I thought we had crossed that line.”
There is no “we”, the ref represents the commission, not the UFC.
Maybe it is time for the refs to keep the fighter down, remove their mouthpiece, wait for the Dr to come in and examine them before standing them up/seating them on a stool. Sooner or later you are going to have an MMA fighter stumbling around the cage like Zab Judah.
by SaVaGe on Nov 18, 2008 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think that the stoppage was just fine.any later and maybe Brock would have sent Randy into retirement.I got mad respect for Randy ,but I think that it is time for him to retire again.I don’t think that he could make it into the 2nd round against Fedor.If he does want 1 more fight ,it should be against Mark Coleman.other than that there is nobody I would like to see him fight.
by the Levi on Nov 18, 2008 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The stoppage was absolutely perfect. P.S. Where are the PPV numbers already?
by RyGuy13 on Nov 18, 2008 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
lesner is right when he thanks god for his body, he almost looks like a few years after we evolved from apes, look at that forehead.but none the less he won
by rawbt on Nov 18, 2008 2:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i thought it was early stoppage. Randy wasnt just laying there he had his hands up and was turning into Brock which is what you are suppose to do.No different then when he dropped Mir.Randy is a up standing guy and is not going to complain
by knee to the nads on Nov 18, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t get to see the fihght… anyone know of a web site that I can go to to see the whole thing?
by wildman on Nov 18, 2008 11:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on MMA Mania
Related FanShots on MMA Mania
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
