fedor weighs what around 230, i don’t think he cuts any weight thats just what he weighs and is only 6 foot tall so if gsp walks around at 200 there less of a size deffernce than most of the people fedor has to fight.

I think Adam misunderstands his own point. Fedor doesnt cut weight in any of his fights and dominates. GSP cuts supposedly 30 pounds and dominates. If Fedor fought at 30 pounds less than his walking weight his dominance woudl be even more prevalant…or conversley, if GSP fought at his walking weight, woudl be be as dominant?

He doesn’t cut weight, but he definatley walks around at a higher weight then he weighs in at. It’s common for fighters to lose around 10 pounds durring a very intense training camp without doing any weight cutting. Just from intense conditioning and training a decent amount of weight comes off. I would think Fedor is around 240-245 when he’s not training for a fight, just speculation.

What about Randy Couture? He fought at LH and did pretty well, and he fought at HW and did better. I don’t think Fedor would be as good at LH as he is at HW because he’d have to fight a different style than the one he’s perfected.

RAMPAGE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

A source close to Quinton “Rampage” Jackson has shed new light on the former light heavyweights

Our source indicates that Jackson was fumbling around with a contact lens that was giving him trouble while driving and subsequently lost the lens. He was apparently searching for it when he sideswiped at least two vehicles, mildly injuring one woman.

A frightened, paranoid Jackson, who had again, been up fasting for days, then acted on instinct and fled the scene and eventually the police.

Jackson pulled over after giving police a brief chase and was fully cooperative with authorities after that point.

A hearing is set for Aug. 15 in which more details of the case should be revealed. The UFC is looking at a November return date for the popular fighter, possibly against Wanderlei Silva.

wow that is so absurd! sounds like something my lawyers would come up with in a pinch, your absurd for spreading this nonsense John, but I really dont expect any better from you so….

I got a bridge to sell you too john. your love for some of these guys jades your opinions! Does this explain why he hopped up and drove on the sidewalk forcing people to flee and jump out of the way?

I didnt write that crap. It was an article copied and pasted! Dont blame me, blame fightline. I posted it cuz I thought it was funny!

I didnt write that. I copied and pasted it. it was an article posted on another mma site. U really think I could come up with that?

next time put quotes around it or maybe the source so the dummies can tell the difference between a quote and a comment.

He accidentally dropped his contact lens in Chuck’s NyQuil.

you have not seen torres fight

Are you seriously calling Miguel Torres one dimensional? :s

I’m going to give you the benfit of the doubt in that you are thinking of the wrong Torres. i am referring to Miguel Torres, the Bantomweight champ of the WEC.

Please watch his last fight against Maeda. You have to watch it round by round on youtube, here is round 1. the links to the other rounds are found as you watch each round..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0KZ1ncDvDE&feature=related

As a matter of fact, I am now watching that fight myself for the 8th time.

SORRY GUYS! I don’t know why my brain tangented to the boxer, Miguel Torres. It was one of my many, many brainfarts. And no, unfortuneately, I have not seen the MMA Torres yet. But I’m almost off work and will go home and google/youtube.

that must’ve been embarassing haha. but people make mistakes so its okay. haha. i was gonna type another “torres is not one dimensional” post but then u were referring to another person so there, no harm done. at least u made me laugh. haha.

If a guy walks around at 200-215 what in your right mind makes you think that he should be fighting at HW? He would be the smallest HW in the UFC. Forest G. walks around at 235 so does that make him scared to fight at heavyweight? Fighters cut weight so they can have the greatest amount of strength possible for their fight…its not cause their scared of the next weight class. A.Silva fighting at 205 and only walking around at 215 is still a very small weight cut in terms of most MMA fighters…so I guess hes not as scared as you think.

why doesn’t forrest fight at hw then? cutting weight makes them stronger? are u serious? dehydrating ur body the week before a fight makes a guy stronger? name a doctor who would agree with that. fedor doesn’t seem to mind being one of the smaller hw’s in the world. evidently he’s not afraid of size differential like most fighters are.

Weight drops off while you train during hard sessions wether you want to cut weight or not. Dropping 10 pounds probaly happens naturally for most of thee fighters regardless, cutting 15 or 20 pounds requires specific weight cutting techniques.

For Silva to stay at 215 puonds for a fight it may limit the type and amount of training he does.

Just cuz someone fights GSP doesnt make him my boy.

Look what happened to YOUR boy against Serra!

I am not a fan of GSP, but i am not a fan of Serra neither

I think Frank Mir made a good point here.

I don’t think he was insulting anyone, especially not Fedor. And to be clear – he’s definitely a person who knows what he’s talking about (you on the other hand???). Perhaps you should re-read what he said, so as not to be so offended (there was absolutely no questioning of Fedors “credibility”) . His points are legit.

Pre-accident Mir would likely have given any heavyweight a good fight – though I’m not saying he would beat the names you mentioned.

If Fedor is not 1 of the top 2 fighters in the world in your eyes, then I really dont want to talk to you!

John your tongue is jammed so far up Fedor’s a** that everything you say smells like SH*T, I have bet that after Fedor finally loses you will disappear!!!!!!

the pre accident mir was not much better than the mir you see today, who did he ever beat besides tim, he beat nobody worth mentioning he had a tough time beating mid level fighters and has got his ass kicked by mid level fighters.he is mid level at best he has great bjj and thats about it.

Hey john, i think the way you talk is purely classless, anybody on this website who knows what they are talking about knows that Frank Mir is a class act, who is great for the sport as a fighter, commentator, and trainer. And this may sound like a huge excuse, but before his accident, Mir was a world beater, and he is still top 10. So in closing, i respect your opinion, but definetly not the way you went about stating it.

frank mir is a great commentator and a great guy, i would even say he is my favorite commentator but no offense to him he was never a top 10 hw before or after his accident.

you guys might sing a different tune after he taps out noguiera

If Fedor is not 1 of the top 2 fighters in the world in your eyes, then I really dont want to talk to you! LOL!! holy crap thats funny! LMAO! ;lAHDa;lkgdsa;

yeah john kinda sounded like a 12 year old just now… i think mir makes a good point, although i do believe fedor is definitely THE best heavyweight in the world, undisputed…

http://www.ufc.com/GeorgesSt-Pierre
check ur facts

Not a real good comparison. It’s not the same once a guy is over 250 lbs. Speed goes WAAAAAY down and athleticism and explosivness and cardio… At 200 lbs Keith Hackney destroyed a near 600 lb guy because he was too SLOW.

i agree, we all know dana would never let a non-contracted fighter fight in his organization, but if he doesn’t start doing it soon he’s gonna start losing fighters and fans. Everyone who is somewhat of a big draw, including roger huerta feels they should be getting paid better, sylvia and arlovski already left, it could get ugly…

isnt there someone monitoring these message boards, so they can pull johns comments, boy needs to lay off the roids, lotta anger

Fedor is at LEAST in the top 2….I dont care about Fedor at 155…what about GSP or BJ at HW Frank Mir? that is the flipside to his stupid comment about lb for lb. Let Mir get passed Big Nog before he talks his trash. Fedor beat him twice….and finished Tim WAY faster than NOG did.

smaller guys like that fedor would just get a takedown and do his viscious ground and pound until he got a tko or pull one of his slick subs by just overpowering them with brute strength. plus, he wouldn’t have to fight chuck, page or forrest at catchweight, those guys weigh 230 annyways.

youre right there mike….I look at it like Mir looks at it though …if everyone weighed the same, and you match skill for skill, you have got to give it too GSP, Bj or Silva…as far as athletism and well roundedness (also basing it off the athetism and well roundedness of their competition)…Im not knocking Fedor, and neither is Mir, Fedor is probably the most well rounded heavy weight, but he has never had to fight another well rounded fighter(becuase of the other heavy wieghts either being grapplers or stikers)…Its definately not a strecth though to say he is pfp king , since he is hw and basically undefeated….this ESPN poll is more telling than one that says Tiger Woods is the best ATHLETE known to man, when it doesnt take much athletism to play golf, skill yes, athetism no…that I will never understand

well shit of course fedor cant move as fast or string together combos like lighter smaller fighers… thats just natural.. no heavyweight can throw hands as quick as the smaller guys. does that make him a worse fighter p4p? not in my book. if you got silva to fight fedor at any realistic catch weight i think silva would get his first loss in years

Agreed here man, I think the problem is that everyone is choosing to compare these guys are 155. What if they were all HWs? Fedor would embarrass these guys, none of them have the punching power he does nor the sheer dominance. Say what you will about Silva but he beats you into submissions with many stikes, Penn would not be able to handle the weight and his indurance would give especially him being the ground guy he is. Not to mention Penn would not be nearly as flexible as a HW. I barely even want to mention GSP trying to take on Fedor as a HW. I think it makes more sense to rate P4P on sheer dominance of ones own class. How many fighters fight at multiple weight classes anyway. And if you are like Hendo then you can only benifit from being in two weight classes as it ups your P4P rank. IMO it seems like the rankings now are bull anyway

Pound for Pound is the dumbest comparison ever. You are basically fighting about something that will never get figured out because you can’t have BJ fight Fedor. I’d look at weight dominance and Fedor is number 1.

I agree…P4P arguments are useless. Only useful for fanboys and those who otherwise like to debate that which can never be proven. Most of these fighters will never fight each other, so everyone’s just closing their eyes and imagining what these fights might look like in a parallel universe where everyone is the same size.

Someone needs to develop a scientific formula to calculate P4P potential for these conversations to even make sense. Otherwise it’s just a bunch of people saying “Silva’s the best!!!” or “Fedor is god!!!” From the number of comments on this article, it appears that people just enjoy saying those things for some reason. :)

Agreed Arnold

I am curious when Fedor fought Linland, had Fedor not grabbed the rope like he was grabbing his schlong when he discovered the joys of masturbation, I believe he would have lost that fight. His grabbing the rope was the only thing that saved him. The ref. did nothing about it and it was tide changing. His grabbing the rope the 2 or 3 times during Linlands belly to belly gave him top control. So So do you think he could compete with the smaller quicker fighters? Fedors advantage is that he is the only well rounded fighter in the HW class. Barnett and Nog great grapplers but only average hands. Cro Cop Great striking but the grappling game of a new born baby. BJ Penn held his own against a much larger MAchida. Could you imagine his skill set if he was 210 to 220 lbs. I think he would eat up Fedor. These kind of arguments could go on forever because they are all hypothetical. They are a matter of opinion. Yeah on paper maybe Fedor is the best fighter ever, but does anyone truly believe that the HW class has any competetion comparable to the 155 thru 170 # class? No way in hell is there any competion near the level of the competetion that GSP and BJ Penn face on a regular basis. Fedor has not been tested anywhere near the level of the GSP or BJ Penn level. GSP vs. Koscheck/Hughes or BJ PEnn vs Gomi/Uno/Hughes.

BJ at #7?? Haha, wow..

And what do you mean “potential”?? BJ already has wins against some of the all-time greats in the sport. He only takes tough fights.

I know, not to mention he has Urijah at #2, and Faber has flown all the way to Hawaii to be able to train with BJ

Correct. To place BJ Penn at # 7 is like a slap in the face to The Prodigy…

BJ is top 3 IMO. Fedor would destroy Mir, but I have him at #4.

Silva
GSP
BJ
Fedor

No matter how you slice it, Fedor ,GSP and Silva are 1,2 and 3. The order can be argued, but there is no arguement for BJ. In the near future there might be, but as it stands, BJ hasn’t been as dominant (how many fights did he LOSE in the last few years?). GSP avenged his losses and BJ lost to a guy he once beat (that’s the wrong direction to go to be labeled p4p best). To many BJ fans use IF’S to justify his losses, but if’s don’t count for much when talking about P4P best. If Fedor didn’t get cut, he wouldn’t have lost,but he DID get injured, so he lost. If GSP wouldn’t of had a bad night, he wouldn’t have lost to Serra, but he DID lose. If BJ didn’t have shitty cardio and was more consistant he might have won more of those fights and he could be ranked top 3, but he DIDN’T.

Please. Jon Fitch is going to cry for his mommy next weekend. He has a punchers chance, and I think St. Pierre learned his lesson there from Matt Serra.

Watch his fight with Arona

he was getting killed by mark hunt too

1 hour. Still no attempts at an answer.

I doubt that I’ll be back on the site for a few days. I’m about to head out to the hospital as my wife just got finsihed with her surgery (her Mom has been with her). So I’ll be working from home on Monday as well, and when I get to work from home, I usually find somwthing better to do since I’m not tied down to a computer…

The ONE thing that I do what do talk about, and will try and check in on tonite if she gets released, otherwise tomorrow, IS who is bettinng on the WEC event?

So far I just put in a small amount on a 3 fight parlay – Condit, Stann, Hicks. Paying out at just about 3 to 1. When the event was first anounced, I was quick to say that Stann would win for sure. he already beat him in less than a minute. I just watched that fight again today on youtube, its there, just search last names, and its clear that Cantwell is the more diverse stiker, but Stann got a little more power in his hands. Stann is unbeaten and Cantwell’s one loss is to Stann. at -350 it doesn’t see sooo guaranteed anymore since Cantwell looked sharp lately.

Miura going to be a big WW, which will be good for all you people that think he’s too small for the division. he has fought Mayhem Miller at MW in the WEC. At -600 Carlos is great to include in a couple of palays.

david Terrell at -165 looks pretty attractive.

These are from BetUs. What do you guys think???

sorry to be off topic.

haemophiliac, your still not understanding. Dont look at it as who comes down or up in weight. Lets say GSP & Fedor are the same size and fight the exact same way they do now, who do you think would win?

JV…you r not understanding…..if fedor was gsp or silvas weight and fought the same he would be too slow for 185 or whatever the weight is , and if gsp was HW and fought the same he would be too fast….thats why you can never make that comparison……and anyway how the fuck do you know how good or bad of a fighter fedor would be if he was a lighter weight?…..or if GSP was a HW?….its a bullshit argument….the only thing we got to go by is fighters domination and record….and FEDOR is clearly a winner… no more what ifs…we just have to look at what we have in each weight and see who is really dominates, who have lost, and who never did, and the answer will come FEDORis the name…case closed

I’m not taking away from him, I’m just saying that Penn and GSP are top notch, to say that Fedor is going to just run them over assuming they were the same size, is a total BS statement. Those would be very competitive match’s.

BJ Penn would turn Fedor into a pretzel if he was a lightweight, and GSP beats everyone at their own game. He’s a freaking beast! GSP wouldn’t get caught in a Fedor armbar. He’s spent plenty of time in BJ’s gaurd as well as Matt Serra’s, and was never in any danger of submission.

Fedor has better skills than BJ. It doesn’t matter what weight. Fedor isn’t scared of BJJ, he can slip punches and kicks better than BJ, his standup isn’t only boxing like BJ and he has decent kicks, and his clinch, takedowns, and wrestling are better.

bj penn needs to beat gsp and win a rubber match with hughes before he even belongs in this conversation. what hughes did to penn the last time they fought, lol, u wanna name anyone who could do that to fedor!

Your talking about guys with olympic skill level wrestling. PLEASE, he’s not just gonna walk through them by beating them at their own game. Not saying he wouldn’t win the fight but his striking would def be a factor. And I don’t see anyone that weighs the same as GSP “ruining” him with their ground game.

exactly… fedor destroyed a legitimate top 5 hw and former hw champ in 36 secs… who himself said fedor ain’t human… anderson silva beat a nobody with a 3-2 record and a loss to any decent competition… and they compare the two performances… james irvin is a mid level lwh AT BEST… sylvia as much as we like to hate him is one of the world’s best…

ViolentMike, I only see Tim, Nog, and Cro-Cop those are the only REAL! big names, only 3. Everybody else are blown up MW’s or LHW’s. So you tell me, how many actual HW’s has he fought?

Who you guys be impressed with Anderson and GSP if they had alot of guys on there resume that fought at lower weight classes???

Actually, Fedor looks like a blown up HW himself. He could easily shed the “baby fat” and be a LHW. It makes his dominance even more impressive.

Tim Sylvia sucks!

noneed4name, I guess his fight with Arona was easy right? Arona had that fight won, had Fedor on the ground the whole fight. And even with the ref standing them up when Arona had a dominant position, Arona would still take him down again. And I guess Fujita didnt have Fedor dancing like a little girl when he rocked him? But yea Fedor has never been in danger of losing (yea whatever)

JV – you missed the point. Fedor has won all his fights meaning he has never had an off night. All the other top p4p contenders have all had off nights hence their losses on their records. There is something to be said for a guy who just wins every time.

Anyone using the “lack of competition” angle is merely reaching as the only reason his competition is not held is as high a regard is because he has beaten them all down himself.

But your taking size completely out of the equation by implying that if GSP steps in with HW Fedor it’s an even fight, and that if GSP loses then Fedor’s the better fighter. Thats just bad logic.

Yes I am, and with good reason. MMA has repeatedly demonstrated that a skilled, smaller fighter will beat a not-so-skilled larger fighter. It happens all the time. From Royce Gracie to Fedor beating Hong Man Choi. Fundamentally, P4P lists virtually disqualify heavyweights from coming top purely because they’re big. It is unfair to penalise a fighter just because of the size that biology granted them. A fighter still has to train, a fighter still has to work and have skills – regardless of size.

Equally unfairly, it is a cop-out to claim that a small fighter fighting a big fighter would be an unfair fight. AS I’ve already said, smaller have beaten bigger fighters repeatedly throughout MMA’s short history. If Anderson Silva lost to Fedor, would you really give Silva a ‘moral victory’ because he happens to weigh less?

I agree.

SIZE makes a huge difference.

Royce was able to submit bigger guys coz their knowledge of BJJ was non-existent and/or limited.

if you take 2 guys with skill-levels, experience blah blah then almost always the bigger, stronger guy wins.

That’s a pointless statement: if both fighters had the same skill level and the same experience, then the bigger fighter would win? So if 2 fighter had the same skill level, the same experience and were the same size, then the fight would be a draw? What exactly is your point?

Zulu, if size really didn’t matter they wouldn’t have weight class’s. It’s ridiculous to sit here and say that giving up 50-60 lbs, height and reach doesn’t mean anything. And nowhere did I say that HW’s train less, or work any less harder at what they do. I’m saying that a 170 lbs GSP vs a 200+ lbs Fedor with height and reach is not a fair fight. You can definatley not be as skilled and still win a fight when you’ve got that much of an advantage in the ability to take a shot and deliver. When you have that much more weight/strength to throw around it can definatley make up for flaws in technique. Thats why P4P discussions even exist cause if they were the same weight it would be a completely different fight.

THATS EXACTLY HIS POINT, wow your a brick wall… If they’re the same size/str etc.. and they’re equally skilled obviously the outcome is a draw. They both nullify eachothers technique. Now give one them 20-30 lbs, 3 inch’s height and 2 inch’s reach. Now obviously the BIGGER guy wins. So you sitting here saying size doesn’t matter is obviously a farse. Cause size definatley makes a difference and it’s completely ignorant to say it doesn’t. My only other question to you is, since it’s such a no brainer that size doesn’t make a difference, why the hell do they have weight class’s?

No, that’s not exactly his point. His point was to reduce an MMA fight to an arbitrary set of numbers. But there are other factors: fire, passion, grit, courage. The things that can be learned, but not taught.

Remember that there was a time when there were no weight classes, and that even after that time fighters have agreed to catch-weight matches. A fighter tests his mettle against another. And I do think that size can make a difference: when a smaller fighter does beat a bigger fighter it makes the victory so much sweeter. But if a fighter does choose to step into the cage with a bigger opponent and loses, he should not claim size as a contributing factor – since he was aware of that and chose to fighter anyway. George St. Pierre beating Fedor would be a tremendous victory, definitely at least partly because of the size difference. But Fedor beating George St. Pierre would in no way diminish the victory, because GSP is a superbly conditioned and skilled combatant.

Yes Fedor is a big fighter. But importantly, he knows how to use that size – not all fighters do and it is skill in of itself. But that’s not what makes Fedor the best fighter in the world. What makes him the best is his training and his state of mind. Those are the things that set the great fighter apart, and that is what puts Fedor as the top fighter in the world, regardless of size.

No, that’s not exactly his point. His point was to reduce an MMA fight to an arbitrary set of numbers. But there are other factors: fire, passion, grit, courage. The things that can be learned, but not taught.

Remember that there was a time when there were no weight classes, and that even after that time fighters have agreed to catch-weight matches. A fighter tests his mettle against another. And I do think that size can make a difference: when a smaller fighter does beat a bigger fighter it makes the victory so much sweeter. But if a fighter does choose to step into the cage with a bigger opponent and loses, he should not claim size as a contributing factor – since he was aware of that and chose to fighter anyway. George St. Pierre beating Fedor would be a tremendous victory, definitely at least partly because of the size difference. But Fedor beating George St. Pierre would in no way diminish the victory, because GSP is a superbly conditioned and skilled combatant.

Yes Fedor is a big fighter. But importantly, he knows how to use that size – not all fighters do and it is skill in of itself. But that’s not what makes Fedor the best fighter in the world. What makes him the best is his training and his state of mind. Those are the things that set the great fighter apart, and that is what makes Fedor the best fighter, regardless of size.

No, that’s not exactly his point. His point was to reduce an MMA fight to an arbitrary set of numbers. But there are other factors: fire, passion, grit, courage. The things that can be learned, but not taught.

Agree to disagree, and if Fedor were to fight GSP and win HW vs WW it’s expected, who would be impressed by a 205+ lbs fighter beating a 170 lbs fighter?? cause a welter weight shouldn’t beat a heavy weight. Exactly like when Hendo fought Nog, both times. Hats off to Hendo for trying, but if anything in their first fight, DESPITE the fact that Nog won, you could definatley tell by the commentators that they were more impressed with Henderson than they were with Nog and surprised that it didn’t end sooner than rd 3. Ironically enough Hendo in losing gained more respect for going 3 rds with a HW than Nog gained for beating a WW. IF Fedor and GSP were the same weight then you can’t say for sure that Fedor would win. I think givin their current size’s it’s a pretty safe bet to say Fedor (barring a miracle) would take that fight, assuming in some crazy dream world GSP accepted that catch weight match. To say he’s the best fighter in his weight class is a given, to say he’s the best fighter p4p on the planet, it’s still up in the air, and it’s only an OPINION.

My apologies for the multiple comments, the site software wasn’t displaying my comments (or maybe it was a problem with cookies at my end). Anyway, back to the discussion.

Mixed martial arts is supposed to simulate what would happen in a real fight. Whilst the days of bare knuckle brawling is long gone, MMA is still (supposed to be) “as real as it gets”. To my mind, that means that 2 fighters go in and compete their best abilities against their opponent’s best abilities. So a bigger fight might be better able to take a shot, might hit harder and might have a reach advantage. Equally, a smaller fighter might be quicker, more agile and having smaller muscles actually makes pulling of BJJ sumbissions easier. Remember too that smaller fighters tend to train harder, have better conditioning and better all-round skills.

I think it is fallacious to penalise heavyweight fighters in rankings purely because they are big. They’re born that way, it’s not their fault. Besides many large fighters think that their size will take them through any fight, a costly mistake which all eventually learn.

There is no point in hypothesising about scenarios where Fedor weighed 155 pounds. It could physically never happen and is pointless fantasy. On the other hand, BJ Penn has competed at LHW and had his arse handed to him. In fact, why does the P4P question have to revolve around the fighters all weighing the lightest? Why not if all fights were taking place at LHW? Who would win then?

I still maintain that the only question that matters is who would win in an actual, real-life fight. Would George St. Pierre beat Hong Man Choi? Absolutely. Would George St. Pierre bear Fedor? No, and the answer has nothing to do with size and everything to do with skills, talent and mindset.

You said BJ competed at LHW and had his ass handed to him? You’d better watch that Machida VS BJ Penn fight again. BJ even though losing a unanimous decision he held his own against one of the best and probably future champ at 205 lbs.

Thank you BNF and Adam G!!!!

Where you been Adam G???

Need support for BJ against the f_cking c_ck ‘Big Smoke’ above. F_cking troll!!

Just taking a break. Finaly the Huerta/Florian fight is here (and the GSP fight) so we can find out what Penns next move will be, I hope GSP wins so we can get this over with and get BJ back his belt! (and i hope GSP doesnt get hurt in the Fitch fight , quick and easy, so the GSPENN2 fight can be ASAP!!!)

true, they should call him Forrest “I can’t believe it!” Griffen!!

lol

I just get suckered in soooooo easily :?

lol

I know.

I just fall for them all the time lol :?