I wish him a fast recovery.. I want to see him compete at this high level and put on a show.

… (Shogun) is considered among many as the best 205-pound mixed martial artist on the planet.

You should change it to WAS considered…

After his dismal performance, I don’t think anyone still considers him the best at 205. If you ask me, the current #1 is Rampage, hands down!

Yeah it was disappointing that he lost, but on the other hand, it does catapult one of my favorite fighters to the top (Forest). Shogun will be back and I suspect he will do well in the UFC. Id really like to see a Shogun/Rampage rematch in the octagon.

Wow he sounds marketable in the USA. Good luck with the surgery though. I think the only thing intimidating about this guy is his tats.

Was it the knee injury or cardio that was increasingly slowing Shogun down in this match? I initially thought he had broken a rib the way he was whincing on his back. Great win for Forrest – have no doubt that Shogun will make a strong second appearance next year. Another Pride vetran gets welcomed to the UFC – submission style!!

No wonder he didnt do well he needs surgery

Wow he sounds marketable in the USA. Good luck with the surgery though. I think the only thing intimidating about this guy is his tats.

Don’t discredit him for one loss, everybody has a bad day, look at GSP! Im glad Forest won, but Shogun is a monster! Watch his first fight with Rampage if you don’t believe me.

I’m more then happy Forrest won,he’s my favorite fighter hands down, dont care.
I hope this knee surgery issue isn’t used to discredit forrest, after all shogun gassed.
I would however like to see shogun in action again in the ufc, use him for taking out guys I don’t want to see anymore(ortiz mainly)
happy for forrest
good luck to shogun
looking forward to 08

Don’t discredit him for one loss, everybody has a bad day, look at GSP! Im glad Forest won, but Shogun is a monster! Watch his first fight with Rampage if you don’t believe me.

I agree.
GSP lost his fight and people still think he is the #1 WW.
One loss, one mistake doesn’t drop you to nothing.
Shogun is still(in my opinion) the best 205er,

You should change it to WAS considered…

After his dismal performance, I don’t think anyone still considers him the best at 205. If you ask me, the current #1 is Rampage, hands down!

Why? Some people may still consider him the best. Maybe not VM, maybe not Mania. “Anyone” is quite a stretch. I’m sure there is an entire country (Brazil), for example, that might disagree with you.

I would love for Shogun to leave Ortiz in a puddle of his own blood, never to bee seen again, lol.

After his dismal performance, I don’t think anyone still considers him the best at 205. If you ask me, the current #1 is Rampage, hands down!
Why? Some people may still consider him the best. Maybe not VM, maybe not Mania. “Anyone” is quite a stretch. I’m sure there is an entire country (Brazil), for example, that might disagree with you.

I still think he is #1 LHW, and im Canadian.
Shogun(and Ninja for that matter) just need more cardio training.

Cardio is such a HUGE factor in these fights anyone who doesn’t have it cant be considered # 1. He gassed in the middle of rnd 2 and got beat. Sure his talent and knowledge is world class but without the cardio he just cant be the best. I wish him well. The burden of proof is all his, he has to come back stronger and in much better shape and prove he is the best.

How can you be #1 if you have no cardio? #1 should be great at all aspects of the fighting game. Shogun for me is now in the bottom half of the #10.

How can you be #1 if you have no cardio? #1 should be great at all aspects of the fighting game. Shogun for me is now in the bottom half of the #10.

Man, some of you guys are more brutal than the cage fighers! Haha

Shogun was considered the best LHW in the world, losing just once early on in his career then going on a tear through every fighter he faced except Mark Coleman. This is his third loss in like 20 fights, the first time he was finished since 2003 and you put him in the bottom half of your top 10?

Man, give the guy a break. I think he has to lose two in a row before I could say something like that. In my opinion, the problem is Rua’s talent. We have so much expectation of him that if he doesn’t completely annihilate his opponents, we feel that Shogun is losing a step. Jesus, that’s a lot of pressure.

THis sucks!! i hope he will be ready to face the winner of the tito rashad fight!!! ..

The reason he had no stamina should be fairly obvious: the knee injury did not allow him to train properly for the fight. I hate it when fighters make excuses for their losses, but there’s no doubt Shogun is better than he showed against Forrest. I’m glad there’s a reasonable explanation for that now.

I think Rampage is the best 205 pound fighter in the world until someone takes the belt, but Shogun at his best has that capability. I would expect him to bounce back in his next fight.

Shogun has good cardio, he just didn’t at 76.
he hasn’t fought in a while, and probably didn’t work on it in training.I think he took Forrest lightly. And he paid dearly for that. This is a wake up call for Rua. He knows now that he has to train 110% every fight. Give him time, he will fight like he did in pride fc. Ruthless, with no desperate look in his eye, a warrior!
…and aside from cardio. Shogun didn’t fight bad.Forrest fought exceptionally well. Much better then his fight with Ramerez. Forrest should get “most improved fighter” award.
I was really shocked how much better he has gotten.
I think he is championship material now..give him a title shot,he deserves it!

No wonder he didnt do well he needs surgery

Here we go, all Shogun fans will they “the reason he lost was this Knee thing” yet I dont see how cardio and stamina have anything to do with a bad knee.

Shogun will be back and better than ever! Props to forrest, but i think shogun has way to much “pride” to not have the surgery and then train his ass off to come back with the skills and the cardio!

If you guys can find the rest of the interview, Shogun admits that he gassed, he underestimated Forrest. He did not make excuses he says that Forrest beat him square.

IMO I think this fight was good for both fighters. It proved that Forrest is a tier 1 fighter, and served as a reminder to Shogun that talent alone will not win fights these days. I think Rua will come back better than he was, more dedicated. I think he was just so much better than his competition for so long at pride he just started relying on his talent to win the fights. If you willl look at his fights from 2-3 years ago he showed up in better shape than he has for the few fights. It was bound to catch up sooner or later. But I would not write this guy off due to one poor performance. This guy has SO much skill and potential he will always be a contender IMO

The reason he had no stamina should be fairly obvious: the knee injury did not allow him to train properly for the fight. I hate it when fighters make excuses for their losses, but there’s no doubt Shogun is better than he showed against Forrest. I’m glad there’s a reasonable explanation for that now.

I think Rampage is the best 205 pound fighter in the world until someone takes the belt, but Shogun at his best has that capability. I would expect him to bounce back in his next fight.

no excuse, forest had injuries too, he even eluded to that in a pre-fight interview. I have no doubt that Forest is the better fighter. Though Shogun is still a monster, its all about styles. Rock Paper Scissors bla bla.

THIS JUST IN Houston Alexander has called out Michael Bisping!!! “I wouldn’t mind fighting Bisping. I wouldn’t mind getting in the ring with that gentleman. He seems like a really confident guy, and I’m a confident guy, so I think that would be a great fight, an interesting fight.” Alexander. This is a sweet way of saying “I will knock your cocky a*ss out in the first round”!!! I hope they do fight! So we all can enjoy his slaughter!

better shape than he has for the few fights

sorry, should read last few fights

Here we go, all Shogun fans will they “the reason he lost was this Knee thing” yet I dont see how cardio and stamina have anything to do with a bad knee.

I’m not justifying this loss or anything but I’ve read that he couldn’t run or do much cardio because of the injury. Just spreading some knowledge. Even if he was at 100%, Forrest still looked great and very well could’ve won the fight either way. I just don’t think he’s championship material.

Shogun will be back and better than ever! Props to forrest, but i think shogun has way to much “pride” to not have the surgery and then train his ass off to come back with the skills and the cardio!

I agree
 Rua is a top competitor, ive watched him a long time, and he won’t let this loss, or his knee stop him from coming back strong.
 But what im suprised with is how good Forrest is. Talk about top competitor. He just beat Shogun. Very impressive!!
 I want to see a rematch with Keith Jardine vs the new improved Forrest Griffin.

I still think he is #1 LHW, and im Canadian.
Shogun(and Ninja for that matter) just need more cardio training.

I still consider him in the top 5 and I think the top 5 are very close to each other. I think he saw that in the Octagon, people cut a lot more weight and match that with insane cardio. With his skill set, all Shogun has to do is match the intensity of others training and he will climb right to the top. Right now, he is small and not in the best of shape.

Shogun and Tito, I’d pay to see that

well with shogun out silva might just fight lidell or maybe houston alexander

hopefully Liddell

Silva said that after Liddell lost the fight now he does not want to fight a looser, Silva needs to shut the ef up, and take on Liddell, Silva just suffered two KOs himself, like he has room to talk. Liddell vs Shogun would not be a good match up, Shogun looked horrible against Forrest, at least Liddell lost a split decision, and Jardine was walking a thin line of getting dropped if Liddell would have threw more punches in teh second round.

Liddell fighing Silva will be war and a close decision just like Rampage fought Hendo, White will make sure that those fighters won’t KO each other, otherwise third consecutive looses on both carreers would be mean retiring.

Shogun was the best in the world. I would like to see him fight Rampage again. I think Rampage would take this one.

(Shogun) is considered among many as the best 205-pound mixed martial artist on the planet.
You should change it to WAS considered…
After his dismal performance, I don’t think anyone still considers him the best at 205. If you ask me, the current #1 is Rampage, hands down!
Why? Some people may still consider him the best. Maybe not VM, maybe not Mania. “Anyone” is quite a stretch. I’m sure there is an entire country (Brazil), for example, that might disagree with you.

Oh, c’mon mania – you know that they’re just a bunch of homers, LOL.

You did say many, not most. So you’re right. But I am too.

Shogun got married a couple weeks ago too. I don’t think he trained much for this fight. Forrest whipped that ass no matter what though.

shogun will be back in top form you can bet on that. he trains with chute boxe, they are known for having insane cardio, but training with a bum knee will slow you down some in training…but thats not to take anything away from griffin because he fought a damn good fight

I think we all know who can win in the ring and who can’t.Quinton while good in the octagon not so great in the ring.Shogun Showed himk what’s up in the ring.So did wanderlei for that matter.The rules are different.Its more aggressive in the ring.Put tito in the ring and see if his record will stand.Like some people said people have bad nights but it seems like lately a bunch of fighters have something wrong with them and don’t say something til after the fight.It’s bull to me but oh well it’s there records.Hamil won hands down.

I think we all know who can win in the ring and who can’t.Quinton while good in the octagon not so great in the ring.Shogun Showed himk what’s up in the ring.So did wanderlei for that matter.The rules are different.Its more aggressive in the ring.

The demands of the ring vs. octagon on fighters are very different. I’m no pro, but I’ve trained and sparred in both and from my limited experience this is what I’ve found…

1. In the ring you stop-and-go, but action in the cage never ends: If you’re on the ground and your head hangs past the ropes, you move to the center of the ring. In the cage, forget it. If your head is against the chain link and your neck is bent 90 degrees, you’re pretty much going to take a beating with nowhere to go. You’d better fight your way out. If you’re body is pressed sideways against the “wall,” then you’d better employ a technique to get into a better position. Not so with ropes in a ring. The cage is far more demanding from a cardio perspective.
 
2. If you’re caught in a ring corner, you have to fight your way out and must go “through” your opponent to escape, whereas in the cage the side door is always open: Like #1 above, this causes the cage to feel much larger than the ring, because you can always circle. It’s hard to get trapped. On the other hand, in the ring if you’re in a corner you have to fight your way out past your opponent, which against a man like Shogun or Crocop, can hurt. Again, the cage is more demanding from a cardio standpoint.

3. The cage requires more strength and muscle endurance, while the ring requires more technical skill in the traditional fighting techniques: The traditional fighting techniques work better in a ring, while a scrappy groundwork is better in the cage. It’s all about trapping. If you can get your opponent smashed against the cage wall, it’s harder for him to get out. Also, in a cage, when pushing a man against the chain-link, it’s pretty hard on your cardio because you’re pushing your own bodyweight as well.

4. The cage allows for more of a dirty style of fighting, which doesn’t work as well in the ring since there are no “walls”: If you’re very tough, strong and experienced brawler with modest training, you’ve got a shot against a better trained fighter as long as you can use the walls of the cage to your advantage, to neutralize his style.

5. BJ Penn and Randy Couture are the ultimate cage fighters: If you watch their fighting styles, these two men have totally adapted their fields of expertise to fighting against a wall. Whether BJ uses the wall to get back up or Randy uses the wall to squeeze his opponent, these guys are very technical in how they utilize the walls to their advantage. It’s beautiful to watch, actually.

Steroid talk aside, I think this is why the Pride guys have had such a hard time adapting to the cage. It’s physically different at their level of the game. This is why Randy knew he could defeat Crocop in the octagon, even though Gonzaga beat him to it. I thought that Shogun’s muay thai would prevail in his debut, but the “constant space” of the octagon is what did him in. It just made him tired. You have to be a better athlete in the cage, not just the most skilled fighter. This is why Matt Hughes has been so successful. I’d be willing to bet money though that in the ring Sakurai would probably beat Hughes handily.

Anyway, just my two cents on the topic.

Doug, great post

Shogun looked tiny compared to Forrest. He should consider moving down to middle.

And I’ll give doug an A- on this report because,Any fighter, such as shogun,should come prepared and used to the cage after months of training and 125,000 dollars.
 My two cents (but well said doug)

Don’t discredit him for one loss, everybody has a bad day, look at GSP! Im glad Forest won, but Shogun is a monster! Watch his first fight with Rampage if you don’t believe me.

Look at the Rampage/Shogun fight you will find a lot more things that are scary about him besides the tats. He not only beat Rampage he destroyed him

i dont agree with the gsp/serra shogun/forrest analogy. serra won with a fluke punch 1rnd ko. forrest dominated shogun for 3 rnds the subbed him (unthinkable). if forrest had koed him in the 1rst i might agree. i do agree that any fighter can have an off night. im just not so sure that shogun had one. does anyone know for a fact if he hurt his knee during or before the fight?

I think we all know who can win in the ring and who can’t.Quinton while good in the octagon not so great in the ring.Shogun Showed himk what’s up in the ring.So did wanderlei for that matter.The rules are different.Its more aggressive in the ring.Put tito in the ring and see if his record will stand.Like some people said people have bad nights but it seems like lately a bunch of fighters have something wrong with them and don’t say something til after the fight.It’s bull to me but oh well it’s there records.Hamil won hands down.

Didn’t Tito beat Wanderlei, in the Pride ring. You forgot the biggest difference, between the octagon and the ring, the ring has way more STERIODS in it. Roids give you an advantage in every way, even ( or should I say especially) mentally . They make you feel invincable.

Silva said that after Liddell lost the fight now he does not want to fight a looser, Silva needs to shut the ef up, and take on Liddell, Silva just suffered two KOs himself, like he has room to talk. Liddell vs Shogun would not be a good match up, Shogun looked horrible against Forrest, at least Liddell lost a split decision, and Jardine was walking a thin line of getting dropped if Liddell would have threw more punches in teh second round.

Silva should look in the mirror before he starts calling someone a loser.

Didn’t Tito beat Wanderlei, in the Pride ring. You forgot the biggest difference, between the octagon and the ring, the ring has way more STERIODS in it. Roids give you an advantage in every way, even ( or should I say especially) mentally . They make you feel invincable.

Was it the knee injury or cardio that was increasingly slowing Shogun down in this match? I initially thought he had broken a rib the way he was whincing on his back. Great win for Forrest – have no doubt that Shogun will make a strong second appearance next year. Another Pride vetran gets welcomed to the UFC – submission style!!

He said he couldnt run much during training….

that’s probably why his cardio sucked.

I mean, what fighter nowadays gasses in the SECOND ROUND?

Seriously. Maybe in the 3rd or 4-5th but NOT the SECOND.

He would have lost to any physically fit 205 that night.

Now with all this speculation that all the PRIDE fighters were on some kind of steriods, I have to question just how good these guys really are.

And I hate to do this, because PRIDE fighters are among my favorite fighters to watch compete.

Before this fight, Shogun Rua was a monster that desimated people. He gassed and looked outclassed by Forrest. I see a worn out and tired Cro Cop. Minotauro looked average in his win. And all the Japanese PRIDE fighters brought over have been D level at best.

The only PRIDE fighters that successfully made the transition are Jackson, Machida, Sylva, and to a small extent Ushin Okami.

Steriods are a hellavuh drug!

I think Shogun is on top of the lightheavyweight division. It doesn’t matter that he lost to forest even the best has an off day just like Henderson,Chuck,Wanderlei,Couture they all have had bad days. Especially fighting with an injury.He’s a tuff m.f.

I do not know much about Shogun, but from what I was hearing I was expecting a lot more. It was a great win for Forrest he’s an ok guy, but as far as his performance was concerned, he did not seem to fight any differently than he normally does. It just that Shogun was really that bad. Forrest was getting pretty tired as well but he just wasn’t as tired as Shogun. This victory was the best thing that could have happened to, but I prefered his fight with Tito, he seemed to have more energy in that fight as well. Tito called him a cheat after that fight, did he ever respond to that?

Jardines win was amazing. Chucks old fighting style just was not working for him and he was so confident before the fight. Jardine won convincingly, no ‘fluke’ no ‘lucky’ punch. He beat an icon for many and could have put a spanner in the works for the Liddel v Silva fight, and because of this he will probably get a lot of negative feedback apart from the boos he received after his win. That was my favourite fight of the night, not be because I thought Jardine would win and went for the upset, but because of the tension and anticipation that was every where, waiting to see if Chuck could land that one punch that never came.
The TUF guys have done well over the last month, Leban, Quarry, Jardine and Griffin, they really put on some good performances and really showed what MMA is all about. Houston Alexander, is definately one to watch he obliterated Sakara, and looks as if he could bring it to anyone in the light heavyweight division. Damn things are getting good.

What a lot of people dont realize is that japan never
tested for steroids until they did the Vegas shows, now that Zuffa has bought pride and brought these guys over,
they are now out of their game they once relied upon, like the lack of strength and cardio. Steroids played a huge part for pride guys at the top of there game, and once they stop using them, they are not the same. Look at Mark Kerr, i mean he fell off, and i hate to say it but i think the same has happend to Shogun, and a lot of other guys that are now fighting in the UFC. Just think about it. but shogun will be back, these guys have to get used to a huge change besides the cage and rules, a lot more ties into it.

Oh fuck off, “The loss to Mark Coleman (a bout in which Shogun suffered a freak arm injury) doesn’t count.”

Would it have counted if they let the fight continue and Coleman pounded his Shogun’s face into dogshit?!?

When you break your arm, you lose a fight. It counts.

I think shogun is a great fighter and got beat fair and square but I don’t think griffin can beat him in the ring.I think a fight is a fight and it depends on who’s fighting to have a pressed fight and that will determine if the fights more aggressive or not.Randy doesn’t press fighters like fedor so I think that will be a tough fight but I could be wrong.Tito vs. henderson now will be interesting but I think henderson should defend his pride title instead and should just drop his weight to fight then gain it back but he knows what he’s doing since he’s had two titles at the same time.It’ll be interesting to see if rampage fights good in the ring now that he has two to defend.He needs to watch his opponents knees though.Shogun should come back strong since he has the record he has but we can only watch and see.I hope his knee gets better.Jardine vs. wanderlei!

Shogun looked like he could possibly make 185 lbs and Forrest looked like he was about 220-225 lbs Fight day… As previously stated in a comment ‘steriod topic aside’.

In many cases a smaller fighter has just as much energy until he’s in numerous clinches and/or taken to the ground for a period where he has to exert more energy to initially match the difference in strength. This takes it’s toll on cardio and the bigger stronger fighter gains the edge as the fight progresses.

We saw this in the Rampage/Hendo Fight after Hendo was 1st taken to his back in the 2nd round, he was gassed out at the start of the 3rd round.

I also agree that the cage has a learning curve for many technical ring fighters and presents disadvantages as the fight progresses, endurance issues included until a fighter adapts to cage style fighting.

Shogun has tremendous skill, if he can make 185 lbs, he definitely should.

I think if shogun trained with Coture he would be unstaoppable. By the way, if this Shogun quote had to be translated, why did it have to be so litteral, why not render it so he doesnt sound like a retard?

i hope he comes stronger than ever. after his loss to griffin i was fucking pissed pist of because hes my favorite fighter and because he should of won that fight. good luck shogun knock ’em out

Alot of you guys are already judging shogun with just one fight in the octagon. Little do you know that he’s going to come back and wreak havoc in his next fights. The guy i would call washed up is definely Liddel. Sorry to say it but he’s just past his prime. He has nothing to offer the UFC anymore except his haymaker. Which by the way Wanderlei will knock him out with too. So i say let shogun fight liddel and retire the ice-ass for good

i think if shogun is in top form he’s gonna beat rampage again,
and dominate griffin in a rematch

Well Shogun took griffin down atleast 5-6 times during the fight but he was not allowed soccer kicks that are allowed in Pride and is his main weapon . Once he will adapt to UFC style you will see him on Top again . Same is the case with crocop .

shogun fought well, and you could see his talent oozing, but lack of cardio and underestimating griffen cost him. griffen is getting better everyday. the sloppy wide open stanced let her fly style of many pride fighters including fedor will be exposed in a cage.