I was impressed by Griffin. Thought Okami chose the wrong gameplan against Franklin but he can think about that while he watches Rich fight Silva.

Griffin was huffin and puffin a lot though.. good game plan but shouldnt of came in so heavy and lose all that weight, it seemed to affect him..

What is Okami thinking he could have taken down Franklin in the second round i dont see why he decided to stand up with him. Oh well a lost is a lost, okami is only 25 so he has 25 more years to be a champ in the 185 division. I give credit to Okami, if it was 5 rounds he would definitely win.

Okami is the type of fighter that pisses me off. He is one of those guys that tries to counter everything and barely initiates anything. The only reason he got that take down is cause Franklin came at him and got a little crossed up. Anyways, Franklin looked a whole weight class smaller than Okami, did yall see that?

Franklin did not impress at all, he was even dissapointed in himself, you could tell. He better not bring that game if he fights Silva again ……. or anyone for that matter.

agreed. not as bad or as good.

so i knew that forest was lock for a bet wish i would of bwet more that was a true mismatch

since Silva’s beating of Franklin he’s never been the same, his heart doesn’t seem in it anymore…maybe time to teach again……….long live AA

people seem surprised that okami didnt do well. the swick fight made him look good but honestly, he would’ve finished swick 10 times if he had anything at all on his ground punches. if u have a guy mounted and ur hitting his face over and over like he was, and he doesnt go out, bulk up and learn how to hit. i can only imagine how frustrated mike must have been. like being slapped in the face by your brother a bunch of times just because he is bigger and sits on you

Herman-Scott was entertaining, but brought up again the question if elbows to the head of a downed opponent are really necessary. I for one want to see knockouts or submissions, not cuts and referee stoppage.

And does anyone really argue that the yellow cards of Pride should be integrated in the UFC anymore after watching the first two rounds of Franklin-Okami? Okami looked for a too good opening in Franklin’s game to take advantage off, one that was not there in the first round and only for a few seconds in the second round.

Forrest was too hard on himself – I didn’t thought he pulled a “Eddie Sanchez” and basically ran away the whole time. He was fighting very smart, took his shots, figured out what the Sick Dog can’t neutralized and kept his gameplan, even thou a few chances for finishing the fight might have been tempting.

I was not disappointed by the event as my expectations have been very low to begin with. UFN10 easily outclassed the PPV event and thats something Dana does not want to happen again if he thinks of building up a larger european fanbase for the UFC.

I didn’t see this fight but- being as close as it was doesn’t bode well for Franklin. Anderson Silva has handled both these guys. What else can you say other than Silva is really awesome.

Why is everyone saying Franklin looked bad? He can only do what his opponent allows. Okami would not engage, would not try any takedowns, would not fight. The only reason that he got the takedown in the 3rd was not because he felt like he had to push the pace but because Rich kinda got tangled up.

And if it would have gone 5 rounds Okami would have won? Why and how? It wasnt like Rich was gassing. It wasnt like Rich started to take shots. Now if you would say, “If the rounds were 10 minutes instead of 5 Okami would have won” I would agree.

Okami had a mentally defeated fighter in Swick standing in front of him and could not put him away and actually got into some trouble in the 2nd. Okami was not about to get caught up with Rich or put himself in a precarious situation. Okami faught his fight and that was to backpeddle and try to counter, but never really did.

And that was classy by Okami to tap gloves for the first round, tap gloves for the 2nd, and then come out for the 3rd and throw a haymaker while Rich went to touch gloves.

Guida should have got the nod on that fight he well came on top. Wasn’t the best event but still miles away from the worst.

Herman-Scott was entertaining, but brought up again the question if elbows to the head of a downed opponent are really necessary. I for one want to see knockouts or submissions, not cuts and referee stoppage.

I said the same thing, but the people I was with all disagreed. I don’t quite get it, but people love elbows and blood.

Personally, I think elbows should not be allowed on the ground. I’d rather see a fighter work a little hared for punches on the ground.

Yted and I once again agree. Stealing my thunder once more…

Elbows are pointless. The cut on smith was nasty, but did it even make him woosy, no. I have no problem with elbows to the body, or even elbows to the head when standing b/c of the angle, but not on the ground.
There is little debate left that the UFC needs a yellow card system. I wrote that up on my blog yesterday.
Guida got robbed, pure and simple. And dont see how anyone sees it different. I’ve watched that fight three times now, and just cant see Tyson winning 2 or 3.
If the UFC judging actually awarded 10-8 rounds, I think the Rich v Yushin bout is a draw at 28-28. What do you have to do to score a 10-8 rounds, break a limb?
Or even better, if it were a meter, round one the needle moves 1-2 inches Rish’s way. Round 2 it moves another inch. Round 3 it swings back two feet to Yushin. I hate boxing’s round by round scoring. It doesnt apply to MMA. Under Pride scoring, Okami wins that fight. Judges to score the fight as a whole, not round by round.
And thank God JMac shut up Singer.
Did everyone see the Marcus Davis fight at the end? Does that dude have punching power or what? Glad we got to see that one. And to think he’s an ex-pro boxer with most of his wins via submission. The dude is a force.

Rich Franklin vs. Silva/Nate is strongly being talked about the event happening in Cincinnati Ohio, for those who do not know, Rich Franklin lives and trains in well Cincinnati Ohio.
Home Court Advantage?
I’d say so, half the people for UFC 68 up in Columbus was from Cincinnati and the crowd went insane for Franklin, just imagine him in Cincinnati.
I for one would love to see Nate vs. Rich for the Championship in Cincinnati, because I will be camping out for those tickets =p

Um, ya’ll might wanna know this now, guess who Tyson Griffin gets to face next?
Clay Guida again!
Rematch.

It ends up Okami is a fan of Rich’s and was somewhat ( my word ) intimidated by him. He said Rich was the best he’s faced. JMac reiterated this, saying Rich is a great way to measure just where youre at and what you need to do to get better.

I was really upset about some comments that were made by Rich Franklin on global pay per view last night! His comments about Hispanics and “naturally tanned” individuals were prejudiced in nature and totally uncalled for! The UFC prides itself on its sportsmanship and respect and this was definitely a step in the wrong direction! I have been watching UFC since UFC I and have never heard any remark against another fighter’s race or skin color until now. Rich Franklin has set a new low with these remarks. There have been national and global uproar over remarks less sensitive than this in the sports. I am glad he is not a teacher any longer so that he can’t teach his pupils his prejudiced views! I think since the comment was made on global TV he should apologize on global TV regarding his comments about Hispanics and “naturally tanned” individuals! Please don’t let the UFC allow this to continue! I was a fan of his but he just lost me!

NaturallyTanned

Okami is the type of fighter that pisses me off. He is one of those guys that tries to counter everything and barely initiates anything. The only reason he got that take down is cause Franklin came at him and got a little crossed up. Anyways, Franklin looked a whole weight class smaller than Okami, did yall see that?

Okami looked like a heavyweight when fighting Franklin it was surreal during the staredown Franklin was looking up and looked skinnier by a lot I have no clue how OKami is 185 it boggles my mind. I honestly think if he would have went for more take downs he could have won that fight. Once on the ground he man handled Franklin, but if my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle so its all for naught.

I will say this, did anyone else see when Okami landed those two left hooks in rd 2 how Franklins knee’s buckled?? It wasnt like Okami landed a bomb, but I know for a fact that Franklins knee’s buckled twice. Now He was stunned vs Tanner and knocked down but not out, Almost KO’d vs The Crow and again knocked down, destroyed by Silva, and now Okami who was throwing Marshmellows made his knees buckle twice?? I really think he has a glass jaw and this is what will be his downfall. Hes a great fighter, but I think he has a weak chin and I think he knows it which is why he was so hesitant to stand and trade with Okami.

to MorethanUFC “Elbows are pointles”, that was the begining of the end for smith, you obviousely havent had blood in your eyes before. it compromises your vision drasticly. If you can watch the fight again, and you will noticc scott trying to focus his eyes the whole time. In my opinion the doctor should have stopped it and scott him self had to tell her that he couldnt see and that he needed to clean it out. I think have a point, no pun intended.

I think they have a point*

Ro-J, that makes no sense. If blurrying the opponents vision is a fair tactic, then lets allow sticking fingers into opponents eyes. Maybe the fighters can throw sand/dust at the opponent, van-Damme-movie-style!?

I am not saying it’s fair, but not to use when its legal and to say its pointless is wrong, …?

you dont make rules when a fighter you learn to use them to you advantage no?..just curiouse

when you are a fighter* sorry long night

I was really upset about some comments that were made by Rich Franklin on global pay per view last night! His comments about Hispanics and “naturally tanned” individuals were prejudiced in nature and totally uncalled for! The UFC prides itself on its sportsmanship and respect and this was definitely a step in the wrong direction! I have been watching UFC since UFC I and have never heard any remark against another fighter’s race or skin color until now. Rich Franklin has set a new low with these remarks. There have been national and global uproar over remarks less sensitive than this in the sports. I am glad he is not a teacher any longer so that he can’t teach his pupils his prejudiced views! I think since the comment was made on global TV he should apologize on global TV regarding his comments about Hispanics and “naturally tanned” individuals! Please don’t let the UFC allow this to continue! I was a fan of his but he just lost me!

NaturallyTanned

I am a white dude that sat with all Puerto Ricans, one being my wife. Not 1 of them said anything or cringed about that comment. STFU!

muto, maybe they didn’t say anything because there was a white dude in the room.

to MorethanUFC “Elbows are pointles”, that was the begining of the end for smith, you obviousely havent had blood in your eyes before. it compromises your vision drasticly. If you can watch the fight again, and you will noticc scott trying to focus his eyes the whole time. In my opinion the doctor should have stopped it and scott him self had to tell her that he couldnt see and that he needed to clean it out. I think have a point, no pun intended.

First off dude, dont make dumbazz assumptions you know nothing about. I hate that. Second, I know its legal, and dont fault any fighter for using elbows while they’re legal, but they DO NO DAMAGE save from the top position and the ref usually stops a bout after the first couple in succesion land because all the refs know that that is the one way a fighter can DIE in the cage. A knee has around 16 sq ins of surface area, while an elbow has 4. That much power into so little a spot can transfer serious force to the brain. Unnecessary, and lethal force. BAN ELBOWS!

How many organizations in the world allow elbows to the head? What’s the one thing that pro-MMA neurologists say they wish wasnt part of the sport? Get a clue dude.

Punches are lucky, elbows do no damage, Okami whipped Rich good, Tyson won because his last name is Griffin. Boy you sure are an expert. All the fighters in the world should cue up with you and learn how to fight and what’s effective.

Ban elbows but you love soccer kicks and head stomps. What other organizations? O the out of business ones.

I see nothing wrong with the use of elbows as long as the ref stops it before it gets bad. If get caught with one, that’s just too bad. Move on to your next fight and try not to eat one. Elbows are applicable to both fighters, as is everything else within the rules.

ok while were at it lets ban kicking, kneeing and looking really mean during the staredown…..oh wait, then it would be boxing. to me thats the appeal of mma, its like watching a real fight. the ref is there to prevent injury. and getting your head busted and bleeding all over yourself does no damage?? it does mental damage which is key in fighting.

sup peps i think that fg looked real good in this fight he is gettin better each fight win or lose.but question off topic does anybody know when kimbo slice vs ray mercer in mma i can’t find it for some reason.

Punches are lucky, elbows do no damage, Okami whipped Rich good, Tyson won because his last name is Griffin. Boy you sure are an expert. All the fighters in the world should cue up with you and learn how to fight and what’s effective.

Do I ever say punches are lucky? I say they “can” be, not that they are. Elbows rarely ever KO a guy, just cut him. Even the brutal elbows GG laid on CC whoosied him, cut him, but no KO. They cause way too many cuts, and I dont “need” to see blood to be happy, dude. Okami exposed Rich as a not so great as we all thought fighter. That seems to be the consensus everywhere today, not just on this one corner of the net. No one is now saying Rich stands much of chance against ASilva, or imo Nate. And did you think Griffen won, or did Clay get robbed? Toss stones, but never speak an opinion. Weak. Scared to get laid into? Happens to me all the time. At least I take the risk. Weak, dude.

iv’e seen guys get koed from elbows. iv’e also seen guys land and do damage with elbows from the bottom also. i can’t remember the last fight that was actually stopped from cuts from an elbow in awhile.it seems the only fighters who have problems w/ elbows are the ones who dont train for them. keep the elbows and add knees to a downed opponent and i’m set.

oh, and the yellow card system is sounding better and better every day.

Do I ever say punches are lucky? I say they “can” be, not that they are. Elbows rarely ever KO a guy, just cut him. Even the brutal elbows GG laid on CC whoosied him, cut him, but no KO. They cause way too many cuts, and I dont “need” to see blood to be happy, dude. Okami exposed Rich as a not so great as we all thought fighter. That seems to be the consensus everywhere today, not just on this one corner of the net. No one is now saying Rich stands much of chance against ASilva, or imo Nate. And did you think Griffen won, or did Clay get robbed? Toss stones, but never speak an opinion. Weak. Scared to get laid into? Happens to me all the time. At least I take the risk. Weak, dude.

Nah forget the Yellow card system. It makes the fighters force things and do things they wouldn’t normally do, for fear of losing pay.
Man Okami did a lot better than I thought, but I was right that even he wasnt gonna be able really match Rich’s strength like he has with his other opponents.

speaking of elbows from the bottom. how about drew fickett’s on karo?? that was a hell of a shot. about the only good one he landed though. i don’t “need” to see blood to enjoy a fight, i just don’t propose to take part of the sport out because its too violent. we ARE talking about fighting here…

Event not too bad….Frankli/Okami technical as I expected. A whole new Griffen. Good to see him being conservative. Great display of MMA regardless of what anybody says. Fight of the night Guida/Griffen. No argument against the decision. I do feel Griffen was extremely active from the bottom in the third. Griffen is my new favorite 155er. His first fight was great agiainst a tough opponent, but Guida was another notch up and he handled it. Not to mention only guy to beat Faber

I happen to agree with those who think elbowing to the face while on the ground should be banned. Why do I think so? Simply because you’re not always able to determine a clear winner when a fight is suddenly stopped by the doctors due to a bad cut. I’ve seen enough fights that support my argument where the person who got cut & was forced to take the loss was either winning or had a legitimate chance to win…………As a matter of fact, a good example of why elbows on the ground should be removed can be found with a fighter named David Loiseau. If you go back & watch his last couple of fights (pre-Franklin), he gathered a few wins not by his greater skill, technical proficiency, superior athletics or incredible preparation but by strategically cutting his opponents. Actually, it’s pretty safe to say that he was losing those fights up until the stoppages.

Why in the world did Okami wait until the 3rd round to start fighting? Initially, I agreed with the announcers that he was looking to work some sort of counter-based plan but half way through the 2nd round, I starting thinking that it’s something else entirely. From what I know of Okami, he’s always been a slow starter but I’m going to go out on a ledge & say that something was wrong with Okami. What exactly? IDK but…something. FYI, I was expecting Rich to win but not without facing adversity much in the vein of what happened in the 3rd round.

I do beleive that Guida should have earned that decision win as opposed to Tyson getting it. Not to take anything away from Tyson at all because he’s a great fighter. Griffin simply out-worked him. I must admit that what may have caused the judges to score the way they did was due to Tyson’s accurate & aggressive striking which Guida had no answer for. Overall, Guida still won this in my eyes.

Although I’m not really a fan, I was very impressed with Forrests new & improved fighting mentality. He was very focused & controlled. Way to smarten-up Forrest! You may stand a chance at becoming a real contender in the 205 division & not just some side-show attraction.

FYI, I’m picking Nate over Silva & I’m also picking Nate over Franklin in Nate’s 1st title defense.

Tommy it seems lately you do more talking to me than anything else. Get a grip dude. I meant scared to voice your opinion, jackazz. It’s kind of pathetic how you hinge on my every word. Hey, judging by your my space pics, is that what a guido is?

Guys like more than ufc who just attack every post crack me up! read that over and tell what your rant pertained to what I said?

There you contradict yourself again. You say you hate racist comments then you try to degrade my race. Do you lie to the man in the mirror as much as you do here?

i just watched the griffin/guida fight again and there is no doubt in my mind that griffin won that fight, no doubt, i could even make an argument that he won all 3 rounds, rogan and goldberg kept saying guida was gonna win because he was on top the last 2 minutes of the 3rd, but thats bs, griffin was still the more aggressive fighter from the bottom, the last 6 or 7 seconds of the round guida had a nice flurry, but that was it, round 3 was griffin for sure, round one was closer than round 3 in my opinion and i give it to griffin too, and round 2 i could say all guida did was have a nice last minute, which he did with the kneebar, but he took some serious shots to the kidneys and he had griffin’s back at the end, but griffin was never in real trouble and guida was just kind of sitting there, griffin was very active from every position, when guida was on his back griffin slammed his head into the mat hard, but that round was close and guida had the last minute, but i still think tyson was the better fighter for the first 4 minutes of the round…tyson threw elbows and punches the whole time from every position in every round and won the stand up in every round…that decision is justified, i actually think it should have been unanimous, maybe even 30-27…

Event not too bad….Frankli/Okami technical as I expected. A whole new Griffen. Good to see him being conservative. Great display of MMA regardless of what anybody says. Fight of the night Guida/Griffen. No argument against the decision. I do feel Griffen was extremely active from the bottom in the third. Griffen is my new favorite 155er. His first fight was great agiainst a tough opponent, but Guida was another notch up and he handled it. Not to mention only guy to beat Faber

i agree with you stafo like usual, griffin is definitely one of my favorite fighters, win or lose that guy always brings it, he’s got really nice everything, even stand up for a short little dude…

Hey guys what is this? keep it about mma and not your ego’s.

 Your so funny ‘what does a guy have to do to get a two point round, break his arm?’ He couldn’t even submit him much less break his arm. In fact Rich showed he was able to defend the worse of situations against the best on the ground. I like Silva better but your just a salty girl cuz you pulled for Okami. You change your ‘truths’ every few days man.

i agree with this too, rich was impressive not to tap out to that kimura, and there wasn’t really anything impressive about okami in that fight, i didn’t see a 10-8 round at all in the 3rd, okami won that round, but definitely lost the fight, with or without the 10 point system, i don’t know why rich franklin is taking shit for this fight, okami was a top 3 or 4 guy in 185 and rich beat him, he got in trouble one time and got out, he didn’t quit and even at the end of the 3rd took the top position and kept attacking, rich has done nothing but win time and time again, there is no reason for someone to say he’s not good now just because he beat a guy that person might have wanted to win…okami is a huge ass dude though, his upper body is like a perfect triangle, its crazy, he’s got the smallest waist i’ve ever seen on a dude that big, its gotta be like 28 or some shit…

also, its probably not the popular opinion, but i like elbows to the head, it makes it harder to defend the ground and pound, it adds more to the fight, its not a grappling match, without the elbows a guy on the bottom can defend a hell of a lot easier if he only has to worry about the fists…and if a fighter gets cut he gets cut, thats part of fighting, i got no problem with that, i’m not a blood hungry fan, but i don’t mind it at all i know its part of the game and it should be…

I happen to agree with those who think elbowing to the face while on the ground should be banned. Why do I think so? Simply because you’re not always able to determine a clear winner when a fight is suddenly stopped by the doctors due to a bad cut.

Ok, I want a list of fights that have been stopped that way, in which the cut fighter was winning before the fight was stopped. The last one I remember was….Fedor’s loss…and that was back in 2000, that is, almost 7 years ago…and that wasn’t a cut from elbows, but from a headbutt, IIRC.

I have the last 15 UFC PPVs recorded here (58-72), plus UFC 51, plus 4 UFNs, plus 6 PRIDE PPVs….and there’s only one cuts stoppage in any of them, and the losing fighter (Yves Edwards) was most definitely not winning that fight when he got cut. Stevenson took him down twice in the first round and pounded him hard both times, Yves knocked Joe down once and did nothing in the guard. In the second round, Stevenson took him down again and pounded him, that’s when the first cut happened.

Elbows stopping fights prematurely is, IMNSHO, hype. But if you can give me a list of fights that were stopped due to cuts, marking those that the losing fighter was actually winning before the stoppage. In the last 15 UFC PPVs, there’s only 3 doctor stoppages, 1, I have no clue why it was (Aldana’s) because it wasn’t in the PPV, 1 was Edwards’, and he was losing that fight well before the cuts, and the third one was due to a freak knee injury.

Here’s a table with the results, according to sherdog’s fightfinder. Knockouts and TKOs (except stoppages, by doctors or corners) in the first column, submissions in the second, decisions in the third, stoppages in the fourth.

        KO S D Stoppage
58 1 3 4 0
59 3 3 3 0
60 4 4 1 0
61 2 2 3 2 (cuts from elbows in Y. Edwards’
                                  case, no idea at all why in Aldana’s case)
62 2 5 2 0
63 5 1 3 0
64 3 2 3 0
65 6 1 2 0
66 5 3 1 0
67 4 1 4 0
68 2 3 3 1 (J. McDonald’s corner stopped his
                                  fight, not a doctor stoppage)
69 2 2 5 0
70 4 3 3 0
71 3 3 2 1 (James Irvin, busted knee)
72 3 2 3 0

Totals 49 38 42 4

As you can see, there’s been 4 stoppages in the last 133 fights4, which means that a bit over 3.007 percent of fights have been stoppages…half of those stoppages have had nothing to do with cuts, so…not even 2% of the fights have been due to cuts in the last 15 UFC PPVs. And out of that not-even-2%, half, for certain, the fighter that lost was not winning the fight before it was stopped.

So…I call bullshit…but if you can give me proof that says I’m wrong, I’m willing to accept it.

Damn! This thing ate the formatting of the table :(

The first, two digit number, is the UFC event number, then it’s the KO, S, D, and Stoppage, all of them single digit.

good points vox, hard to argue with solid proof like that, lets keep the elbows…

Ok, decided to go back even farther…all the way to UFC 30.

This is all data from sherdog’s fightfinder…unfortunately, I don’t have any of these recorded nor was able to find any of the pertinent fights to be able to tell if the cut fighter was winning or not at the time the fight was stopped, but…what the hell, numbers don’t lie.

I also counted the UFNs and TUF finales, which means…43 more events, for a total of 58 events.

There’s 15 fights decided by “cuts” or “doctor stoppage” in those 43 events, out of a total of 324 fights, which means 4.62 percent of the fights in those 43 events didn’t get resolved by a KO/TKO, submission or judges’ decision.

Even if all 15 fights had been stopped when the cut fighter was winning, it’s still a very damn weak argument to remove elbows as a weapon on the ground, IMNSHO.

And no, I’m waaay too lazy to go ahead and make another table with the data of all those 43 events lol! If anybody else feels like it, go for it, it’s fun :)

Oh, in case you are curious…if we add all the UFC fights from UFC30 to UFC72, there’s 457 fights, 19 of which were stoppages, which means that 4.15% of the fights have been stoppages. Even if all of those had been from elbows cutting, it’d be a weak number…but they are not, at least not with any certainty. In the new numbers, out of the 15 stopped fights, 12 are marked as cuts, 3 as “doctor stoppage” without a given reason…and out of those 12 cuts, fightfinder doesn’t say which cuts were from elbows, so…the actual percentage may be even lower than what the numbers suggest.

In other words…I call bullshit, again, deeper bullshit than I thought it was.

If in Pride’s scoring Okami would have won the fight, I see then why they went belly up. Didn’t know how to call the proper winner of a fight.

Great work Vox. Well conceived statistical analysis trumps anecdotal and suppositional evidence every time!

Clay won on my card. That outcome was not right and the fans let the judges know.It was a great fight but wrong person got the win.
Overall I think the money I spent to get the fight was worth it.Not the best of cards but it is still MMA.

i dont get why people are saying Okami exposed Franklin…Okami has been mandhandling dudes his last fights, and even did better against Silva than he did against Rich..Rich chased Okami the first two rounds, everyone wanted to know who was stronger, there were a couple of times Okami had 2 double underhooks, Rich shucked them off then got the underhooks himself, 2 rounds easy..I thought the way he got out of the two submission attempt was more impressive then “just hanging on”..he got out of them by keeping cool, and using strength and technique, there was no luck in that
Jorge Guergal “Is he strong”
RF"NO"
thats when i knew Rich had it
Also, Forrest was awesome..he did what he needed to do..learned some defense, he will be a force with better cardio, also doesnt hurt seeing Randy in his corner
Im pissed i missed the Clay/Tyson fight, so i cant say anything about that one
Marcus Davis will be a force

I don’t know how people are seeing that this was a good PPV. I thought it SUCKED. As expected, the Griffin/Guida fight was fight of the night, but there was a controversial decision. Forrest and Franklin are no where the same fighters they were before their devastating KO losses to Jardine and Silva respectively. They both seem scared to get punched in the face.

One of the most important things in assessing how good a figher is, is to see how he comes back from a KO loss. Yeah sure they both won, but they do not fight like they used to, absolutely no killer instinct. Bisping, Liddell, Shogun, Rampage or just about anyone would have finished that Ramirez fight at about 5 different points through out the fight. Ramirez is a straight up BUM and was put into that fight for Forrest to get a Knockout in Ireland. Since the Jardine knockout, Forrest is honestly scared. He even said himself that he was running away from the fight. If you’re going to run away from Hector Ramirez, what are you going to against top competition like Shogun and Rampage? Run in 3 big circles and then jump and try to climb your way out of the octagon as if is was a steel cage match in the WWF?

lus, it seems like Forrest lost all of his punching power. He can not knock out any of the top fighters at 205. Actually, I don’t think he’ll even have another KO victory in the UFC. His only KO was against Elvis Sinosic. And we all know how much that’s saying. I believe that Elvis has been knocked out by his Grandman before.

I love Forrest and really hope he can get his shit together. His fight this weekend looked like an exhibition to me where he was trying to test out his newly found skill of the leg kick. Everytime he had Hector hurt, he backed off. Everytime Hector moved forward, Forrest ran away. That is not the same fighter that everyone, including myself fell in love with during TUF 1.

If Anderson Silva beats Nate, Franklin is going to be having nightmares for the next few months. Even though he didn’t say so, he is DEFINITELY rooting for Nate. There is no way in hell he wants to fight Silva. Not too long ago Joe Rogan said that Franklin still hasn’t watched the footage of his fight against Silva.

Neither Forrest or Franlin are the same after the KO losses. I really hope that Chuck Liddell doesn’t come out timid and scared like this, because if he does, he will be leaving in a stretcher. Because simply put, Wanderlei Silva is no Hector Ramirez or Yushin Okami.

I happen to agree with those who think elbowing to the face while on the ground should be banned. Why do I think so? Simply because you’re not always able to determine a clear winner when a fight is suddenly stopped by the doctors due to a bad cut. I’ve seen enough fights that support my argument where the person who got cut & was forced to take the loss was either winning or had a legitimate chance to win.

They should stop counting stoppage due to a cut as a win. Rule it a NC and you remove the incentive to cut the guy.

There’s 15 fights decided by “cuts” or “doctor stoppage” in those 43 events, out of a total of 324 fights, which means 4.62 percent of the fights in those 43 events didn’t get resolved by a KO/TKO, submission or judges’ decision.

That also means that in nearly one of three events, there is a stoppage by cuts. That would explain why it seems frequent…we see it frequently, even if only once on a nine-fight card.

violentmike i think youre wrong about forrest..it was his first fight back, after he fought in early december, thats a lot of time in between fights, not to mention he was just getting over staph…the gameplan where he went in there and didnt want to get punched in the face, is by far smarter than anything he has done in the ufc to date..he fought smart, and technically was better than he has been..also Sick Dog is a tough dude, hes not a bum..thats where youre definately wrong…and Franklin hasnt lost anything, Okami is a badass, only been knocked out once and it was from an illegal kick by Silva, okami was doing fine against Silva before that happend…Okami is easily a top 10 mw world, top 4 UFC and rich handled him

Wow was not expecting that griffin-guida fight to be so good. totaly impressed. I don’t care what people say guida deserved that win Thoose guys were wariors

Franklin didn’t really look good to me. no doubt he won the fight, but his stand up wasn’t that great and he nearly got submitted, I think okami was hoping to overwelm him in the third, it seemed like he was storing all his energy by not being really active in the first two and try to pull it out in third (which he nearly did), I don’t think franklin deserves a shot his fight wasn’t anything spectacular.

Franklin didn’t really look good to me. no doubt he won the fight, but his stand up wasn’t that great and he nearly got submitted, I think okami was hoping to overwelm him in the third, it seemed like he was storing all his energy by not being really active in the first two and try to pull it out in third (which he nearly did), I don’t think franklin deserves a shot his fight wasn’t anything spectacular.

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the dick!

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the di*k!

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the d**k!

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the d**k

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the d**k

rich is a more recent ex champ and was a more dominate champ, plus the hw division is way deeper than the mw division…

Yeah but franklin is Dana’s boy, so he will get the title shot even though Arlovski just went though virtually an identical situation and gets denied the shot. Both guys ex champs with 2 wins since losing their belts, each guy promised a title shot if they win their respective match ups, both guys pick up a less than sensational decision win. Rich gets the title shot, Andrei gets the d**k

Comparing Franklin with Arlovski… You really are a bloodymess arent you?

Franklin still has one of the better records in MMA today… outside of Louiseau, and destroying Tanner, he really doesnt have many wins. People will belly right up to the bar for that rematch, in hopes of seeing Rich the Animal versus the fuzzy bunny we saw in the first match..Plus, Rich just beat one of the best middleweights IN THE WORLD. Okami is no slouch.

Arlovski is a great skilled fighter, but HE DOESNT FINISH. Outside of Sylvia who has he beat? Werdum? Sorry… guy is slightly better then most. Arlovski needs to kick up the intensity before he gets any talk of a title shot… he was going to get the title shot, until he walked around the octago for 3 rounds with his penis tucked back like a vag. That title shot was his to lose, and HE LOST IT! Get over it, get some booze and enjoy MMA.

What did Franklin just do? and who has he beat? He defended his title against Edwin dewees and nate Quarry, of course he has a good record. Luppers I thought you were more intelligent than that, Rich and AA are pretty close in skill. I mean F**K how many 1 punch knockouts has rich ever put up? 1? AA knocked Buentello with the first punch of the fight, Justin Eilers, Matyushenko, and cabbage. IMO these guys were way more dangerous opponents than Rich’s.

well said Luppers

bloodymess…Rich beat Louiseau in a champ defense, Dewees was his 2nd UFC fight…anyways AA is a stud, but as far as deserving a shot, he just doesnt deserve it right now..He lossed to Syliva twice, one was an extremely boring fight, then he beat Cruz, who is nowhere to be found now, then he had an even more boring figth with Werdum..with all the talent in the UFC heavyweight division, he just didnt earn the title fight yet…Rich beat Jmac, and Okami..Okami is a top MW, and the fight wasnt nearly as boring as people are saying, not to mention the fact that he fought out of that kimura showed more hunger than AA has shown in his last 3 fights..i like both fighters, but Rich definately deserves to be next in line for the 185 title..AA i think needs another GOOD win

That also means that in nearly one of three events, there is a stoppage by cuts. That would explain why it seems frequent…we see it frequently, even if only once on a nine-fight card.

VOX, next time, don’t try & use a partial quote to try & discredit a statement of mine or anyone elses by calling “b.s.”. If you read my entire post, I used the David Loiseau fights as an example & my reasoning was clearly based on situations where a decisive winner was arguable after the cut stoppage. I understand that I chose to say “doctor stoppage” instead of just “stoppage” & this is what may have gotten you all geared up but, sheesh! I never indicated that there were so many instances that you could barely shake a stick at em all! I just said “several” so basically you did all of that work trying to discredit a post that you took out of context only to actually support the same argument you set out to destroy. Nice work! :P

Seriously though, I do appreciate the fact that you went to do your own research instead of just accepting what I said. I also appreciate that you did actually base your arguement on Hard Fact as opposed to the typical nut_hugger & their “because I said so” mentalities. I, like many an MMA fighter enjoy a good squabble & I have gained some respect for you Vox. I look forward to more debates with you in the future :)

Rich beat Jmac, and Okami..

Rich beating JMac is really not saying much in my opinion. I honestly think that there are at LEAST 10 welterweights in the UFC that can destroy JMac as well. And I’m getting sick of how good Okami is. He’s pretty good, but not great. I think the only reason he won 4 straight in the UFC is becuase he fought a bunch of rejects from TUF. He beat Kalib Starnes, Rory freaking Singer, and a Mike Swick who can only bench 110 lbs after a shot of roids in the ass. Kalib gasses in every fight and cries or taps out when he gets hit in the body. Rory Singer is Rory Singer. Who has he beat? besides every scrub from TUF except Danny Abadi. And Mike Swick’d body looked like he just came off of some high fashion runway modeling clothes for anarexic woman. Okami didn’t beat anybody that is close to being in the Top 5 of the division. I mean Martin Kampmann was ranked above him. I think Terry Martin would whoop Okami’s ass. Think about it, Okami looks a little to femenin to me. I’ve seen girls with betther stand up and that hit harder -> Gina Carano to name one.

And I’m getting sick of how good Okami is.

I meant to say, “I’m gettin sick of how many people think that Okami is good…”

Good Points ViolentMike, Swick is skinny, and okami is kinda fem looking, funny stuff really

VOX, next time, don’t try & use a partial quote to try & discredit a statement of mine or anyone elses by calling “b.s.”. If you read my entire post, I used the David Loiseau fights as an example & my reasoning was clearly based on situations where a decisive winner was arguable after the cut stoppage. I understand that I chose to say “doctor stoppage” instead of just “stoppage” & this is what may have gotten you all geared up but, sheesh! I never indicated that there were so many instances that you could barely shake a stick at em all! I just said “several” so basically you did all of that work trying to discredit a post that you took out of context only to actually support the same argument you set out to destroy. Nice work! :P

Yes, you mentioned the Loiseau fights, which are two. Out of 19 stoppages by cuts or doctors. Of the other 17, there’s at least another two, just from memory, (Stevenson’s and Couture when he cut Vitor) which are the other way around, with the clear winner doing the cutting and winning by doctor stoppage.

On the other hand, I’d love to see the video of the other 15 fights stopped by cuts/doctor and see how many were the way you say (unearned win) and how many my way (earned win).

My beef wasn’t so much about saying that elbows cut…hell yes, they cut…my beef is with the “fighters win fights by cut that they wouldn’t be able to win otherwise” idea, just because The Crow got away with it a couple of times.

The other reason why I decided to go for facts is that I’m really sick of people calling for elbows to be outlawed…I like elbows on the ground, I believe they make for great weapons in the G&P, even if they rarely knock people out, they set them up for a beating, just ask CroCop why he got his head kicked to the next county…he was woosy from the elbows that Gonzaga landed on his head a few seconds before the kick.

Elbows are, IMNSHO, not just legal weapons in the octagon, they are also legit weapons…learning to protect yourself from elbows is part of being a MMA fighter…if you don’t, the underdog is gonna kick your head off your shoulders.

And I do enjoy a good debate, as long as it’s about facts and not “I think” and “I guess”.

Scared? Of you? Mister keyboard warrior. Not on just this corner of the net? You have time to be on this site all day everyday and still know every other corner of the net? Your so funny ‘what does a guy have to do to get a two point round, break his arm?’ He couldn’t even submit him much less break his arm. In fact Rich showed he was able to defend the worse of situations against the best on the ground. I like Silva better but your just a salty girl cuz you pulled for Okami. You change your ‘truths’ every few days man. Tyson I thought was a very close fight but that final flurry nothing landed and Griffin was on his was to reversing again, Tyson by the thin skin of your heart.

This is why I do not comment any more, only read. Just thought I would speak my opinion once more.

I posted this on sherdog, to counter this Vox madness:

Okay, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

These statistics are WRONG. This is a stupid analysis, no offense to OP. It sounds legit, but if you actually think about it for a minute…

The ONLY way elbows ending a fight is relevant (or even possible) is if elbows are in fact utilized in the fight. Quoting this massive # of fights, and then some tiny little percentage is misleading as hell. ONLY FIGHTS WHERE FIGHTERS ACTUALLY USE ELBOWS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

That being said, I still think the % is low enough that it’s almost irrelevant. But you should at least be honest about it.

The flipside of this argument is with stomps/soccer kicks… you’ll find the same exact thing, where fighters actually utilize these moves, the % of fights actually stopped from them is rather low (but omg, they look so brutal!!! wah wah, go watch figure skating then).

And the difference between stomps/soccer kicks and groin shots, eye gouging, and headbutts is that those moves injure fighters virtually every time they’re used, and don’t require ANY skill. Everybody complaining that stomps/soccer kicks turn it into a street fight have obviously never actually used stomps/soccer kicks on a live, resisting, TRAINED opponent.

Then:
Originally Posted by Jack10Suited:
>

I have to disagree with this first point. Even if elbows are available, if they aren’t used they aren’t relevant to whether or not elbows prematurely end fights.

Your analogy is like the following: smoking only kills 4% of the adult population prematurely. Therefore, smoking kills 1/25 times. This is NOT correct. The actual statistic requires you to look at the percentage of SMOKERS who die prematurely. That statistic is higher than 4%. Just because most of the adult population chooses not to smoke, doesn’t make cigarette smoking any safer.**

Like I said, I don’t think the number is all that higher even when you only count fights that have elbows. Hell, given that half of those fights making up the 4% he reported were stopped for another reason (cuts from punching, knees, broken jaw, etc), the actual number is still less than 10% I’m sure. However, I was simply pointing out the problems with the methodology.

I just want to leave a suggestion or reminder to Rich “Ace” Franklin.
I know Rich that you’re one of the best fighters in UFC. But please, allow me to say this to you. It will take the very best out of you to take down Anderson “Spider” Silva. Silva is an intelligent fighter. He is a absolutely good Muay Thai Fighter, a Blackbelter Jiu-Jitsu,also good in boxing, I mean ferocious striking skills.has a very aggressive offense. He has a very cautious & clever defense. And best of all he is Christian. He is a believer that Jesus Christ is the “Son of GOd”. I am a Rich Franklin fan. Rich your one of the best of UFC, maybe you just find your match. If u would just ask everything to God in the name of his son and stay good and God-fearing, its100% sure you can beat the Spider. Be well prepared in your conditioning, always be alert of what the spider is capable of; stay strong or be as Mighty Strong as ever, and outmatch his speed & quickness. Good Luck Rich! We believe in you, may God help u in this fight.