He makes a good point. How many top end fighters have to have second jobs to make ends meet. Chris Lytle said he’d never been able to train full time until he was on TUF, something’s not right about that. I also remember reading that it wasn’t until very recently that GSP was able to train full time. That’s pretty amazing considering that GSP is one of the Elite in the sport.

I’m all for the organization making money, but the figters need their peice too. A guy who can train full time will be a much better fighter than a guy who has to have a day job and try to fit training into his schedule.

Unbelievable true… What can Dana say?

8 fights, bottom 6 make 500,000. That is already 3 mil. @nd best fight of the night makes 750,000. Thats 1.5 mil. Top fight of the night makes 1 mil. Thats 2 mil. That equals 6.5 million dollars. Your telling me Dana White cannot handle that type of money? The UFC wages are rediculous.

I think by paying them more, it will help them pay for training and equipment which will improve their fighting skills.

He makes some nice points, but I have no idea why he feels he needs to “debate” the fan-base on this issue. I think most MMA fans feel the fighters are underpaid – especially their mid-card fighters. It’s important to note that the problem is much worse at the mid-card/under-card level. Those are the guys that really make the UFC – as a product – much more appealing than most boxing pay-per-views. I’d be disappointed if there was a change in the pay-scale that merely fed the headliners more money at the expense of entertaining fighters like Parysian, Fickett and Diaz.

-Tony

I so agree, UFC fighters need to form a UNION, they work, train really hard to entertain thier fans, they should be paid alot more

He makes some nice points, but I have no idea why he feels he needs to “debate” the fan-base on this issue. I think most MMA fans feel the fighters are underpaid – especially their mid-card fighters. It’s important to note that the problem is much worse at the mid-card/under-card level. Those are the guys that really make the UFC – as a product – much more appealing than most boxing pay-per-views. I’d be disappointed if there was a change in the pay-scale that merely fed the headliners more money at the expense of entertaining fighters like Parysian, Fickett and Diaz.

-Tony

Good point also

damn i wanted to be first. he’s right in that the fighters deserve more than they are getting but the comparison to boxing is not helpful to his arguement. they are paid very little and it does need to be rectified, however going back to the “we are doing all the work” arguement merely creates a recurring paradox that the UFC brass has to respond with “without us…” and after the acquisition of PRIDE, what can they do other than a mass boycott.

but its good that a well known fighter has spoken about it, hopefully others will follow

Yeah GSP used to bounce at a bar in Montreal I think…..He was probably surrounded by chicks on their knees begging for some Montreal smoked meat..

KOS does have a good point and I think if UFC was fair they would treat their fighters better. If they take good care of them then in the long run they (employees) will do more for you. How about percentage of the total revenue generated goes to the fighters?
But who has made this sport into what it is today? KOS? or Dana White?

On the other hand…what organization wants a Union to deal with? KOS should be careful so he doesn’t get black balled by the boss. Then he will have no income from UFC.

I used to work for a company that had the monopoly with no competition, no unions, and they treated their employees like crap. When ever we had a complaint the boss would say “McDonald’s is always hiring”

So who would go and work there in the UFC? Tim Silvia as the burger flipper?
KOS would take orders….

Dana the manager.

Some really good points – UFC fighters are way underpaid.
Unfortunately, Kos’s balls are bigger than his brain. This wont go over well with his employer.

damn i wanted to be first. he’s right in that the fighters deserve more than they are getting but the comparison to boxing is not helpful to his arguement. they are paid very little and it does need to be rectified, however going back to the “we are doing all the work” arguement merely creates a recurring paradox that the UFC brass has to respond with “without us…” and after the acquisition of PRIDE, what can they do other than a mass boycott.

I think that is exactly what they need to do, boycott UFC for higher wages.

I’m surprised it hasn’t been a bigger issue until now. While MMA is a ‘fledgeling’ sport to the general populace, it seems very easy for mgmt to say, ‘hey, we’re not getting the sponsorship dollars yet etc.‘, but the paydays are getting bigger. Of course they will have to give out bigger paydays, but you can bet your pimply pooper it’ll take alot of time to pry it out of daner.

or just deal with it, they knew the industry when they signed on. There is a decent card for ufc 72 but I hear alot of rumblings that people are not going to purchase it, that means that the big names of the sport are the ones generating the money. So in that case, the top fighters should be given the credit and payed accordingly, not people like rory singer, patrick cote, or up and comers like jKoscheck who will eventually get their pay day if the work their way up the ladder.

Well, if we’re doing some math, there’s a lot left out of the equation. Nobody knows how many millions are required to rent the arena (whether on a flat rate or on a percentage of the gate), set up the pay-per-view (how much of that $40 does Zuffa actually see?), hire security and event staff, pay the hotel, airfare and medical expenses of the fighters and their people, advertising costs, plus whatever else that I can’t think of because I’m not a fight promoter. Do they have to pay the State Athletic Commission to sanction the event? Who knows. The fact is, whatever comes in from all of the things that Koscheck mentions, Zuffa doesn’t keep it all. That’s gross revenue, not profit. There is a point in that people pay to watch the fighters and not the promoters, but one should remember that it’s the promoters that took the risk of going bankrupt to breath life back into a reviled sport that was practically illegal at the time Zuffa took over UFC.

I’m of the opinion that unions tend to ruin whatever it is they’re associated with. The auto industry, the airlines, industrial plants, etc. This idea has come up now and then in NASCAR, which has a somewhat similar business structure (one promoter with independent contractors traveling from venue to venue) and it’s response is simple but accurate: You need NASCAR more than NASCAR needs you. It’s the same with UFC. If Bodog, IFL or ICON want to pay Koscheck more money, then he should take it. If he does, there are a lot of talented fighters itching to take his place. If UFC allows too many popular fighters to leave, then their profits will suffer and they’ll have to pay to keep their top talent. I agree that UFC should realize this sooner rather than later and give Koscheck a raise now, but this “starving fighters vs. greedy promoters” schtick is both simple-minded and bad for the sport.

Fastest growing sport for men ages 18-34. More popular than the NBA playoff, NHL playoffs and MLB in that market. Generated more PPV $’s than boxing or Pro Wrestling in 2006.

More money=more training time and higher quality training/trainers=better fights=more money=more training….well, you get it.

The only advantage I can see to Zuffa paying the smaller salaries just now is that the sport is literally still “growing”… If they want to really take it worldwide (the way they have been talking) its going to require an enormous amount of capital. I work in advertising, and I know that massive campaigns, especially overseas, cant cost huge amounts of money, not to mention legal barriers they have to overcome. I’m sure their are tons of other costs that we never hear about, such insurances, venue hire etc.

I’m not defending them for underpaying their fighters, I’m just suggesting that the margins are maybe tighter than we think they are. The best financial streams for MMA fighters is to lock down solid sponsorship deals, that way they can subsidize their income, and keep the day jobs at arms length.

Well, if we’re doing some math, there’s a lot left out of the equation. Nobody knows how many millions are required to rent the arena (whether on a flat rate or on a percentage of the gate), set up the pay-per-view (how much of that $40 does Zuffa actually see?), hire security and event staff, pay the hotel, airfare and medical expenses of the fighters and their people, advertising costs, plus whatever else that I can’t think of because I’m not a fight promoter. Do they have to pay the State Athletic Commission to sanction the event? Who knows. The fact is, whatever comes in from all of the things that Koscheck mentions, Zuffa doesn’t keep it all. That’s gross revenue, not profit. There is a point in that people pay to watch the fighters and not the promoters, but one should remember that it’s the promoters that took the risk of going bankrupt to breath life back into a reviled sport that was practically illegal at the time Zuffa took over UFC.

I’m of the opinion that unions tend to ruin whatever it is they’re associated with. The auto industry, the airlines, industrial plants, etc. This idea has come up now and then in NASCAR, which has a somewhat similar business structure (one promoter with independent contractors traveling from venue to venue) and it’s response is simple but accurate: You need NASCAR more than NASCAR needs you. It’s the same with UFC. If Bodog, IFL or ICON want to pay Koscheck more money, then he should take it. If he does, there are a lot of talented fighters itching to take his place. If UFC allows too many popular fighters to leave, then their profits will suffer and they’ll have to pay to keep their top talent. I agree that UFC should realize this sooner rather than later and give Koscheck a raise now, but this “starving fighters vs. greedy promoters” schtick is both simple-minded and bad for the sport.

Wow! Hyde for President!

I completely agree; I’ve been saying this for a while now. Most these guys get less than $10,000 a fight to risk their lives and health, while Dana White has a private jet and a Ferrari. Ludicrous.

Other major sports leagues have unions, I think UFC should too. To my knowledge, they don’t even get any kind of health coverage from Zuffa.. (someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this)..

Technically Zuffa “only” made $15 million on PPV if you take Koschecks 1 million PPV buys theory. 1 Million buys times $40 is 40 million dollars. However PPV companies get about 50%, which leaves Zuffa with 20 Million dollars. Take out 25% of that for taxes and Zuffa is left with 15 million dollars. This is all if his 1 million buys theory is correct, which the verdict is still out on. Only one UFC PPV has went over 1 million buys and that was UFC 66 in December of 2006. I know you have to add in the gate which was like 5 Million dollars, but you also have to take out the UFC expenses such as arena rent, commision fees etc. Also Rampage and Chuck are getting some more money as in there contracts they both get a chunck of money depending on the number of PPV buys. With all that being said yeah i do agree the Pay-offs are shit when it comes to paying MMA guys. Hopefully that will correct itself all in due time.

One last thing i would like to add. What happens if the popularity of UFC and MMA in general wears off? Is UFC suppose to than cut pay-out money to all there talent or do they take a loss? I doubt they will take a loss for obvious reasons. Besides it wasn’t that long ago UFC was taking it on the chin and weren’t making serious money if any. If the payouts go crazy and the average monthly ppv buys dip back down to say 200,000 buys a month than what happens? Either UFC starts to again lose money or worse yet goes out of Business. Which in the end everyone would lose out big time. Just something to chew on.

6.5 mill. to pay the fighters per UFC using that gorilla configuration on my above post . I saw on espn that UFC pay per views make 275 million last year off of 13 events. 6.5 × 13 = 84.5 million out of 275 million. That means the pay per view to ufc profit is 190.5 million. I think tickets will cover the cost to rent out the building so what do you have left? Promotion? They may spend 10 mil. per year promoting. So thats 180.5 million left and lets say that zuffa only gets 85 percent of that. That is still 135 million profit. Lets even reduce that for all other expences that may occur so they only get to keep 75% of that. That equals 101.25 million. Come on dude, pay these fools

“They wouldn’t be fighting if it weren’t for the UFC”, you forget, the UFC wouldn’t even be here if it weren’t for the fighters.

Technically Zuffa “only” made $15 million on PPV if you take Koschecks 1 million PPV buys theory. 1 Million buys times $40 is 40 million dollars. However PPV companies get about 50%, which leaves Zuffa with 20 Million dollars. Take out 25% of that for taxes and Zuffa is left with 15 million dollars.

Dana White is a business man, you think he is letting PPV companies take 50%? I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking.

If I was Dana White, I’d give KOS the choice to quit. As mentioned above, he does have options (Bodog, Extreme, etc). There are tons of fighters out there who would love to do what he does, and who would also love to earn what he earns.

These ufc fighters are by no means treated poorly. Sure, they don’t earn what the very successful boxers earn, but they make a good living. Consider the sponsorship opportunities they have, consider the perks of their trade (fanfare, discounts on pretty much anything and everything, freebies,,,). They’ve got it pretty good. Boxing has been on the grandest stage for over one hundred years. That’s why it’s high-end fighters have great pay days. Take a look at the less successful boxers to see how they live. Not so glamorous. St. Pierre bounced several years ago. Well, mma has exploded in North America over the past few years (especially recently) and from what I know, he and most of the upper echelon fighters train full time.

KOS should focus on fighting – on becoming Champion – so he can earn what the big boys earn.

He’s certainly reinforced my opinion of him – an immature little bitch who deserves a serious ass whooping. He could have made his point in a much more diplomatic manner – but he chose to make it personal. Can’t wait to see GSP destroy this clown.

Operational expenses, advertising, accomodations – Zuffa pays those too.
Anybody who thinks they get 100% of the PPV is misinformed.

That aside, I do hope all fighters start seeing a raise in pay. It’s only fair.

Well, if we’re doing some math, there’s a lot left out of the equation. Nobody knows how many millions are required to rent the arena (whether on a flat rate or on a percentage of the gate), set up the pay-per-view (how much of that $40 does Zuffa actually see?), hire security and event staff, pay the hotel, airfare and medical expenses of the fighters and their people, advertising costs, plus whatever else that I can’t think of because I’m not a fight promoter. Do they have to pay the State Athletic Commission to sanction the event? Who knows. The fact is, whatever comes in from all of the things that Koscheck mentions, Zuffa doesn’t keep it all.

Valid points. This is what I can say to that. Don’t forget that all of those logos in the ring sponsor the event. Advertising is in the millions for one company alone. Zuffa gets all that and uses it towards the advertising and medical expenses and whatever. Arenas usually get VERY small % per ticket sold. Their money comes from concessions and parking. My question is does the UFC or the fighter have to pay for the hotel and airfare?

i agree alot about what koscheck is saying,….and yes he has a brass pair of testies on him….i like how he wasnt complainign about his own wage, but top fighters….i see alot of what Hyde is saying though also, i have no idea who all is getting payed every ppv, and how much the ufc (dana, and Fertitas) are banking..although there are many other people in the ufc org, not just the fighters, that have to take a paycheck home as well…..i do think that the athletes are the ones that are more at risk, and to get the top athletes in the world, the athletes have to train like its there #1 job, to do this they need more money for fighting so they dont have to be an electrician until they actually get the lw title…i like mma becuase it is a “common mans” sport, there are no TOs or Kobes that demand millions of dollars to play on a certain team, when they arent even team players…but with that said, i dont think MMA fighters should be money hungry millionares, but i do think there needs to be some increase in take home pay(in every level of talent fights)…Koscheck might have shot himself in the foot on this one, but i gained some respect for him for having the balls to say it

I agree with him. Dana is FOREVER downing boxing, and how they make so much money off a 1 fight card, and no undercards, and this that and the other. Yet, Rampage and Liddell only make 950,000 TOGETHER for the fight that was the MAIN REASON why they had so many PPV buys, ect. Dana has always been a little bit on the dickhead side in my opinion.

One last thing i would like to add. What happens if the popularity of UFC and MMA in general wears off? Is UFC suppose to than cut pay-out money to all there talent or do they take a loss? I doubt they will take a loss for obvious reasons. Besides it wasn’t that long ago UFC was taking it on the chin and weren’t making serious money if any. If the payouts go crazy and the average monthly ppv buys dip back down to say 200,000 buys a month than what happens? Either UFC starts to again lose money or worse yet goes out of Business. Which in the end everyone would lose out big time. Just something to chew on.

If they are growing, then they will continue to grow. in 6 years, look how large its grown, and now, with ESPN and Sports Illustrated backing it up, I doubt it will die down. That’s like saying that since the strikes in hockey a few years back, the NHL is going out of business and should drop pay to their players. Doubtful. The UFC is going to continue to grow, easily, for the next few years and will become the pinnacle of MMA sports in the US and world. Now, if Dana continues to talk shit how he did about “coke needs us, we don’t need coke” then, they might have problems, but the sport itself will not be the problem. I think if Zuffa was smart enough, they’d get Dana out of the forefront of the UFC, and put someone else in that position.

I am not trying to say that I know anything, I was just using Gorilla Math. Would like to know the total profit last year for PPV. Just thinking and typing.

Dana White is a business man, you think he is letting PPV companies take 50%? I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking.

I think they do need to get a pay raise.

Kos should be happy with his money.He got paid 1000.00 for each punch he threw at Diego.

Dana White is a business man, you think he is letting PPV companies take 50%? I am not being sarcastic, I am really asking.

From what i have read PPV companies take 50% no matter what the sport is. Again thats just what i have read over the years.

Something I came across:

Cable operators usually take 50% of the revenue from a PPV event. The PPV aggregator typically takes between 5% and 10% more for its service, according to Kagan World Media.

I think the fighters are underpaid, but not by as much as he makes it sound. Remember sponsorships and ppv $$. Chuck and Rampage got 500,000 a piece for the fight itself, but Chuck def. clear more than 1 million and Rampage was close to 750,000. Now think about that, 2-3 months training and you get close to a million dollars!? Thats pretty damn good. 4 fights a year for the top fighters could earn them close to 4-6mill per. That seems like a good salary.

I think the main problem is the lower level fighters, their the ones who need to be protected but i think the top guns are getting a fair shake.

A union though could be a good thing, just hope it wouldnt lead to lockouts those things are sport killers. Just look at the NHL. Or the NBA, MLB, and NFL who suffered for yrs after their lockouts. I think the fighters just need to be patient and as the sport grows more then the pay will.

Kos should be happy with his money.He got paid 1000.00 for each punch he threw at Diego.

At that rate, Rampage made $25000 per punch (8 punches and 1 elbow)

I think the fighters are underpaid, but not by as much as he makes it sound. Remember sponsorships and ppv $$. Chuck and Rampage got 500,000 a piece for the fight itself, but Chuck def. clear more than 1 million and Rampage was close to 750,000. Now think about that, 2-3 months training and you get close to a million dollars!? Thats pretty damn good. 4 fights a year for the top fighters could earn them close to 4-6mill per. That seems like a good salary.

I think the main problem is the lower level fighters, their the ones who need to be protected but i think the top guns are getting a fair shake.

A union though could be a good thing, just hope it wouldnt lead to lockouts those things are sport killers. Just look at the NHL. Or the NBA, MLB, and NFL who suffered for yrs after their lockouts. I think the fighters just need to be patient and as the sport grows more then the pay will.

Agree…it took years before these other sports became a billion dollar industry which allowed players or athletes to get paid millions.

Does anybody know what pride fighters made(make) in comparison. Ive never really heard it discussed before.

I dont know if a boycott is the answer because we want the sport to coninue to grow, and a boycott could be detramental sport. However I do think the fighters should be paid more! Fighters are even taken adantage of in the lower levels of fighting so fighters get used to it and think that its the way things are. There does need to be an organization or union to protect the fighters talent and health and the ones who should lead this organization should be the promoters. Because with out the fighters there is no product. Promoters need to realize that the more they enable the fighters to train and progress the better the fights the bigger the names and best of all to them the bigger the gates! Unfortunatly it is probably going to be up to the fighter to protect themselves. right on koscheck

and what a great acronym F.U. Fighters Union

Danm I should have copyrighted that. Oh Well

He’s certainly reinforced my opinion of him – an immature little bitch who deserves a serious ass whooping. He could have made his point in a much more diplomatic manner – but he chose to make it personal. Can’t wait to see GSP destroy this clown.

i hear that…very very unprofessional

Fastest growing sport for men ages 18-34. More popular than the NBA playoff, NHL playoffs and MLB in that market. Generated more PPV $’s than boxing or Pro Wrestling in 2006.

More money=more training time and higher quality training/trainers=better fights=more money=more training….well, you get it.

I like your math. I think your equation is true, and appearant in UFC now, because the talent and the condition in which they fight is a lot different. I’m surprised because I thought fighters earned a yearly salary and fight purses were just bonuses to their actual salary. Anyone know if this is true? According to Pat Miletech(sp?) the IFL takes much better care of their fighters overall than the UFC.

BTW Josh Koscheck, I PAY to compete in Jiu Jitsu and I also PAY to compete in other Martial Sports, and I love the hell out of it. I think that guy needs to be told what the hell Middleclass is, it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with a quarterly 14k, nearly 60k a year. Middleclass is teaching school or building houses and that isn’t easy shit to do, I think we’d all rather train 6 hours a day than swing a hammer.

Check the new bulletin out from Kos!

http://www.ufccountdown,com/news/koscheck-speaks-out-a-union-for-fighters/

am i mistaken or is that the SAME thing here on ufcmania? could be mistaken

Pretty funny stuff. I remember when Tito was fighting with the UFC over money and everyone was riding Tito for being “greedy”

Now that KOS has spoken up it’s funny that everyone agrees. It’s not about greed from the perspective of the fighters. Fighter’s risk life and limb to entertain us and make the UFC or any other organization alot of money. Back when Dana bet one hundred grand of his own money on Liddell to win the Pride tourney, I’ll bet Chuck was like ???? You pay me how much?

The fact that these guys need to provide their own health coverage and training. It’s ridiculous to think that a first time UFC fighter gets paid 2 grand to show and 2 grand to win!

Obviously sponsors help with the costs, but most fighters don’t have the “big” sponsors and actually struggle to afford to fight! With the UFC exploding right now, it is crazy to think that fighters are risking so much.

This is the risk of the UFC owning the U.S. Competition is good.

I like Kosh as a figher and agree with him here 100%. Didn’t Zuffa pay like 5 million for UFC rights a few years ago?? One UFC fight alone would make back that money. Chuck, Rampage, Coutoure and all the new pride guys should be making much more money…..This is highway robbery….

am i mistaken or is that the SAME thing here on ufcmania? could be mistaken

Click the Update link

His myspace page says he was hacked….

If I were Dana, I’d seriously consider firing Kos’ ass, just to send a message to everybody else.

The UFC could fire every single one of their fighters today, and be back at the top in 3 years with an entirely new collection of fighters. That means that most of the value is being provided by the promotion, not the fighters. Fighters will get paid more once the sport has matured, but the state of fight promotions is still in the early growth stage, which means the guys who do it right (the UFC) deserve the lions share of the money, both as a reward and as a way to reinvest.

Click the Update link

I think before Kos shoots off at the mouth, he should look at the entire spectrum. Between insurance, TV rights, NSGC fees, things of that nature, the bottom line isnt 20million in Zuffa’s pockets after every PPV. Im sure they are making great money, but unhealthy? Thats truely debatable.

Check the new bulletin out from Kos!

http://www.ufccountdown.com/news/koscheck-speaks-out-a-union-for-fighters/

 wow does that mean these are the words of a hacker? its no to hard to hack myspace these days

Since when was fighting about the money, Koscheck?

You greedy Xyience drinking bitch, I’d fight you for $14,000 any day.

It was Sanchez, revenge served cold.

Since when was fighting about the money, Koscheck?

You greedy Xyience drinking bitch, I’d fight you for $14,000 any day.

And I bet Kos would fight Mayweather or hopkins for 20 mil. any day.

And I bet Kos would fight Mayweather or hopkins for 20 mil. any day.

Koscheck has some very legitimate points, Dana and Zuffa are complete capitalists and very greedy. They could afford to pay the fighters so much better for risking themselves the way they do, if Dana is trying to say UFC is bigger than boxing, why the tiny salaries? If he’s breaking records with PPV why doesn’t he spread it around? Without the fighters he wouldn’t have squat, don’t strangle the goose that lay’s the golden eggs. Hopefully things will change and the fighters will get what they deserve. I heard he said he was going to split PPV profits with main event fighters? What happened to that? Koscheck was one of the main events for Ufc 69 didn’t he get a percentage? I doubt it or he wouldn’t be so pissed about the tiny salaries.

It was Sanchez, revenge served cold.

 wow this is crazy, someone put that out to get him fired or what? I would laugh if it was Diego, what a sore loser.

hahaha, that reply was way more Koscheck. For a second I thought he learned to read.

Good ole Koscheck, I guess someone found out his password was “ihatediego”.

Something I came across:

Cable operators usually take 50% of the revenue from a PPV event. The PPV aggregator typically takes between 5% and 10% more for its service, according to Kagan World Media.

Very interesting. Even thought the original Koscheck bulletin was a HACK JOB there was some cool discussion here. So for a million buys UFC gets about 45% of it all. So a million buys would translate into roughly 17.8 million dollars for UFC. When you take 400,000 PPV buys that makes it 7.1 million dollars for UFC. After paying Uncle Sam, even though there is still alot of money for UFC it kind of puts things into perspective.

wow this is crazy, someone put that out to get him fired or what? I would laugh if it was Diego, what a sore loser.

sore loser??? maybe if he actually did this, but theres no way he did, he’s anything but a sore loser dude, thats crazy…

hahaha, that reply was way more Koscheck. For a second I thought he learned to read.

Good ole Koscheck, I guess someone found out his password was “ihatediego”.

lol…fkn hilarious DirtyML

Huh KOS is right on this one, fighters put everything on the line when they step in the ocagon, they bleed, sweat, and even cry there is no way. If i love this sport i would say the same thing To The BOSS MAn Dana. Dana is just in for the money.

I’v been saying this for ages. Fighters should be getting paid better, over here top soccer players get about £50k and upwards.

he did make some very good points, Zuffa just wants hit big first since I guess they feel they did all the work of cleaning MMA up. Fighters need to get paid though.

Psh, as if he didn’t “hack” his own Myspace and say what he had to say without consequence (i.e. Dana White sacking him).

>_

Good point. At least Dana will know that his fighters aren’t stupid. But only RECENTLY has the UFC been in the mainstream media and I’ll bet they’ll have a LOT of that money re-invested into the brand name and company. Anyone have any idea what their books look like? :-D I bet they’re still in a bit of debt. Take care of the debt first in my opinion. And that’s what they’re probably doing. Grow the company and the salaries of the fighters (should) grow naturally also.

I really hope the UFC eventually pays their people/fighters better. Can you imagine fighters on strike? lol.

Also, i just wanted to add that you can’t compare MMA to Boxing just yet in terms of salary. You just can’t. Boxing’s been around for years and other professional sports have already clearly established themselves. The MMA business has (just) started to really be accepted and it’s booming. I think in 5-10 (?) years it could reach those levels of top professional sports provided MMA and the UFC continue to do a stellar job in promoting the sport and cleaning up the MMA image to attract bigger sponsors, television deals and so forth. Without that, don’t expect too much of an increase in Fighter salaries. Just won’t happen.

Tell this loud mouth to quit then. He don’t like it go away. He has one meaningless win over Diego and he is already spouting off about the boss to everyone and his momma? Clown. I really wish I could say that to his face too.

Whether it was a fake or not, they should form a union. Every other major sport has one. Its just part of being a legitimite sport.

Whoever hacked his computer made some good points

A union for what? to regulate the fighters purse? i doubt dana will be happy with the idea

His page was most definitely hacked or something cause the person that did it wrote in the mini profile section “kos is gay” and it’s still there lol. I guess the person who fixed it didn’t see it because it only appears just when the page is about to load in firefox, whereas in i.e theres a slight wait before the page is shown due to rendering.

I doubt Kos wrote that piece.

There is no doubt the UFC management is making big bucks on the backs of fighters. In the early days it would be hard to argue the pay structure. MMA was not a sport with true pro potential.

And things have changed a bit, however, with the consistently huge dollars coming in, the fighters are going to want a piece of the now considerably larger pie. They want to be true fighting professionals.

As with other sports, history repeats itself. Owners clean up while players have to take real jobs to pay basic bills.

The rumblings in the UFC are already starting (Rampage had a nice little speech about earning big bucks). Fighters who are also leaders will eventually band players together and together they will negotiated a balanced deal thats all union like. Or, UFC management will step up and….nah, management never does that, it is business after all!!

One last thought. I wrote this for free. I am in no way a pro,just a hack….when do blogers start getting a piece of the ad dollars here at ufcmania.com : )

Forrest

Tell this loud mouth to quit then. He don’t like it go away. He has one meaningless win over Diego and he is already spouting off about the boss to everyone and his momma? Clown. I really wish I could say that to his face too.

haha, hell yeah

Couple of random thoughts that may be redundant with what’s already been said…

Does anyone else here find it mildly ironic that of all people to be bringing up this issue of money it would be Kos? I practically fell asleep during his last fight. If you’re going to look as though you’re shitting you pants and play paddy cakes with your opponent for 15 minutes you don’t need any more money.

I realize that the training these guys go through is arduous and so forth, and that the fighting itself is potentially pretty dangerous, but nobody is pointing a gun to their heads to partake in a sport. I’m a cop and my wife is an elementary school teacher. While our jobs are not entertaining to the public (well mostly) one could reasonably make an argument that they’re slightly more important to society than any sport. And with our combined incomes it will take roughly five years for us to make what Liddell made in one fight. Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to begrudge these guys their due – I think $500K is pretty fair and the poor saps getting $6,000 should feel insulted. But is half a million really ripping someone off?

At this point I almost think that there should be a structured salary with a cap on both ends. Nobody gets less than $100K and nobody more than $500K. Then throw in bonuses for winning the fight, best knockout of the night, etc. Combine that with sponsorships and even the most mediocre of combatants with so much as a modicum of financial sense should be able retire from fighting with a little to fall back on. Hell half these guys retire and make a good wage training or doing something else related to the craft.

After reading that line of crap I really do hope that he gets blackballed from the UFC. I could never stand him to begin with and this merely confirms to me what a douche he really is.

MMA is still growing in popularity and it did more PPV than boxing last year. I imagine that boxing has a lot of the same fees and expenses so why would boxers still get alot more money than mma fighters?

Of course these guys deserve a nice piece of the pie. And when you compare it to other sports sure it’s absurd but these guys aren’t lacking anything. The up and comer, the average joe struggles but the myspace thing uses Liddel and Rampage as examples. poor argument when both guys are still making close to a mil on one night after fight,endorsements,etc. I love this sport and I want it to grow to become one of the biggest sports in the world. I will be honest and say I don’t think it’s such a good idea to pay these guys ridiculous salaries as some of these other premadonnas in other sports. What will that achieve? Look at the caliber of play when you got a bunch of overpais players? Sure it’s still great but not the same when your still hungry and not just a job that over pays you. Look at what happen to boxing. Compare pro football to college football. I’m sure many of you see where I’m going with this

Try to Union that mans company away. That really is too funny. Go build your own company and start your own union. Pretty soon they are gonna start to holla Wal-Mart Monopoly. It’s unfair to the small guy! We are such a funny people really.

The reality is that MMA fighters are still paid rather poorly compared to other professional athletes, but its wrong to think that the UFC aren’t making an effort to improve this.

UFC only reached mainstream in the last couple years, and even now it’s not a mainstream sport. It has found a strong fan niche and its growing quickly, but ultimately this doesn’t mean the company can splurge mindlessly on fighters salaries.

My biggest problem is the discrepancy between the top tier earners and the rest of the pack. If Chuck Liddell can make half a million on a fight just from the gate alone, there is no reason why someone else on the main card should not make at least 25,000. This discrepancy is partly the reason why Boxing is in its poor state today. I don’t disagree that Chuck Liddell shouldn’t make more than an undercard fighter (after all he is wht the PPV sells) but seriously it wouldn’t hurt for the UFC to narrow down this paycheck discrepany.

If you ask me, An undercard fighter should be paid 10-15k per fight, and a main card fighter should be paid at least 25k and up.

This sport is different the others. In boxing fighters are first amature and then they fight up through ranks. In football they go to college proving grounds. Same with most major sports. Here we have the ability to see young just starting fighting fighters fight their way up to the top. How can they say pay me the big bucks right away? What have they done besides have a couple of fights and train? This sport as any other demands dollars. Sure pay per view is big but like Bizzaro T pointed out it’s still not regular sports numbers. Why? It’s really only on pay per view and some off channel. Not national prime time free tv, yet. It can’t be compared. As far as the big names are concerned they do pretty well. Chuck can make like 3 million a year to lose for the rest of his career. If he wins he could double it or more. Randy, CC, Tito, Rampage, I mean as long as you draw a crowd you get paid.

…
One last thing i would like to add. What happens if the popularity of UFC and MMA in general wears off? Is UFC suppose to than cut pay-out money to all there talent or do they take a loss?

Excellent post BeltStud!
True, the fighter compensation is lagging right now. The sport’s popularity has been growing exponentially- too fast really- and the market hasn’t been defined yet. UFC doesn’t seem to be competing against any other organization yet like IFL or Elite because we watch it all. At the point things slow down- and maybe we are almost there- then competition will increase for quality fighters and wages will improve.
Just like the dot com boom, new organizations are being slapped together and events televised with no end in sight. But there will be a saturation point and a shake out will follow.
  In the NBA for example, wages are extremely high. That’s an employees market. Since the UFC is basically unchallenged at this point in terms of popularity, MMA is still an employers market.

…
My biggest problem is the discrepancy between the top tier earners and the rest of the pack.
…

I agree with what you are saying in theory and that might work in a venue like WEC. If they had a progressive salary scale for UFC events, then it’s just going to further complicate putting cards together. Consider UFC 71: you have Liddell-Jackson ultimately getting $500K each so down at the bottom, scrub fighters are going to make $25K (5%). But then in UFC 72, the main event is Franklin-Okami. They are probably going to get… what… $50K – $100K each max? Then the bottom scales down to $2,500.
Two guys at roughly the same level- Rashad Evans and Houston Alexander perhaps- could make vastly different sums of money depending on which card they’re on.

Hey Koscheck, you want more money, fight in a fight worth watching!!!!

..I totally agree with these comments o fighter’s salaries..it so true, as the MMA sport is growing the pay out is the same or a little better, but nothing serious..alot of guy’s that put their ass on the line to make a show for us still have to work a reg job..that sucks..

Dana White reminds me of a cross between Don King and Vince McMahon. Don King because of the control over all the money and the way he underpays his fighter’s. Vince McMahon because of the way he promotes all those “revenge-type” fights. He’s really got all his fighter’s over a barrel.

I wonder how many other fighters feel like this.

They got rid of Lindland with a stupid t shirt excuse. Kos better hope they don’t find some excuse to get rid of him. As much as I dislike his attitude, I have got to give him respect for his comments. I just hope they don’t make an example out of him.

Tommy, in response to your last comment i see what youre saying, but i also kinda diasagree…the football players in college and ametuer boxing….mma ametuers are college wrestlers, some people can start young like Karo, but Kaor was already world class Judo and had payed some dues, and there is an ametuer status for mma..only like Fitch had pointed out previously, its the same as pro, only you make dogshit for money….sure chuck can get beat 4 times a year and take home 3 million dallars…but what about someone like Rich Franklin, who in his title fight took home somewhere around $40,000, but had to have reconstructive surgery on his face…i know thats the risk a fighter takes, and they know that this is the business theyve chosen, but somehwere down the road, i think if the UFC starts making more and more money, its only fair that the fighters aren’t trated like second rate athletes

I can’t wait until GSP whoops his ass with a devistating knee to the dome, and ends his career by paralizing him. I can also tell that in every fight he’s ever fought in he trys to take the easy way out, he doesn’t like getting striked he backs up, and as for his ground game I dont think its all that technical he just relies on strenght. If diego would have taken him down and show some agressivness then it would have been a different story, there was obvisously something wrong with diego that day, and I’m sure he’s looking to turn that around real fast.

Tommy, in response to your last comment i see what youre saying, but i also kinda diasagree…the football players in college and ametuer boxing….mma ametuers are college wrestlers, some people can start young like Karo, but Kaor was already world class Judo and had payed some dues, and there is an ametuer status for mma..only like Fitch had pointed out previously, its the same as pro, only you make dogshit for money….sure chuck can get beat 4 times a year and take home 3 million dallars…but what about someone like Rich Franklin, who in his title fight took home somewhere around $40,000, but had to have reconstructive surgery on his face…i know thats the risk a fighter takes, and they know that this is the business theyve chosen, but somehwere down the road, i think if the UFC starts making more and more money, its only fair that the fighters aren’t trated like second rate athletes

Well Karo does alright so no need to even defend his money. He is not a champion and still clears 100 a year. You bring up Rich’s injury but what if Chris Leak would have messed himself up? Some in that sport is permanent as well. If Patton Manning would have blew his knee out in college? Jorden could have twisted an ankle in college? I only bring up these ones because all the people its happened to we never know about. (at least I don’t) In boxing they fight like 60-70 fights before they go pro. Please no one contridict themselves here and say this is a rougher sport then boxing. And in all those sports they make a name for themselves before going pro. They already have a fan following. Here you don’t. You must go pro and start building a fan base ect all in the beggining. That’s what generates dollars and makes you get paid. People want to get paid first and work later. Show us something then get paid. I’m not saying they shouldn’t make a little more because they should. I just see the dollar side of it and Kos is wrong. Let him try to solo and event and see how well it sells. All sports are paid for by fans the more you have and better you do the more you make. Simple
PS Once they make the money everyone will just say they got over paid and lazy. Good to keep people hungry.

also dont forget that zuffa just paidout 70 million to purchase pride. i think the money willbe there eventually, maybee not as much as other pro sports, but at least respectable.

I didn’t read over all of the comments, but there was one obvious clue that this may have been a hack job post on his site…

THE GRAMMER WUZ 2 GOOD AND THERE WUZNT ENUFF ALL CAPS WRITING!!!

Those who have read his posts before on his site (or as I do, here on UFCMania) have to have noticed the bad spelling, phrasing, punctuation and overall disregard for the rules of grammar. I know all the kids type this way, but the rant about Dana (It’s Good To Be) White was just too properly posed and articulated – which isn’t the norm for Kos.

Very interesting. Even thought the original Koscheck bulletin was a HACK JOB there was some cool discussion here. So for a million buys UFC gets about 45% of it all. So a million buys would translate into roughly 17.8 million dollars for UFC. When you take 400,000 PPV buys that makes it 7.1 million dollars for UFC. After paying Uncle Sam, even though there is still alot of money for UFC it kind of puts things into perspective.

Funny , if all pay-per-view’s have to pay 50% and aggregators typically take 5% then why do boxers still make 10’s of millions even with their “greedy” promotors , or is dana white really the greety promotor

yes i’m a boxing fan for life , and will always love boxing 1st but i buy every ufc pay-per-view also because it’s entertaining , the only thing i don’t like about the ufc is how dana white has the whole world on a boxing vs ufc, yes he started making the negative comments first and at 1st no one in boxing responded back until dana continued his remarks , his strategy isn’t working for him it’s working against him , like i said i’m a boxing fan its in my heart but i BUY EVERY UFC because i love the stories and the fighters , but it urks me to hear negative remarks about boxing , so much so that i don’t think i’ll continue that much longer, he should just “do-him” , and cheating his fighters out of money isn’t going to look good in the publics eye either cuss at the end of the day , it doesn’t matter how many taxes or lawyers or promotors the ufc has , boxing on pay-per-view has the same thing and thoughs guys are getting paid out the ass!!!

very true, you make good points….all im thinking is if UFC is “the superbowl” of mma, and you have to work youre ass through the lower level shows around the globe to make youre record good enough for the ufc to even consider you, than id say they should pay more than the lower level shows..paychecks for fight range from $350,000(CroCop) to $2,000(some undercard fighter, who is still good enough to be considered by the ufc)…i just think they can meet in the middle somewhere..
anytime something gets mentioned on a fighters myspace, they always say they were hacked…i dont get why someone would be such a low life to do that..a couple months ago Dennis Kangs myspace had him coming out of the closet, then he had to write and confirm that he wasnt gay..its just stupid…i dont understand how easy it is to hack myspace, but i dont think any news from myspace is very creditable

I think this thread really pissed Dana off, stuck the old metaphorical thumb right in his bum. that really pisses him off!

I agree with Kos 100%. He could say it any better. The only thing he said wrong was the fan would support Dana White. I don’t support Dana White, and I know a lot of fans feel the same way I do.

I, like some, think that Professional sport player (the big three, football, base b, and basket b, plus boxers) make way too much. And I back it up by not buying any of that crap, from going to ball game, ppv….

Athletes making too much money means the fans suffer. Everything related to those sports became more expensive. Average people can’t even go to a ball game anymore.

But a the same token, the UFC needs to pay its fighters better for the benifit it reaps from them.
I don’t have any problem with the UFC making a lot of money, but be the FIRST to have a “BALANCE” that is: MAKE IT AFFORDABLE FOR THE FAN, GIVE THE FIGHTERS THEIR FAIR SHARE, AND MAKE YOUR MONEY.

People forget to realize, if your agreeing that the fighter should get paid more; who the hell do you think will be paying their salaries; the answer is us.

We are the ones that will bare the expensive of these fighter salaries.

You think ticket prices are high now. Try giving big name fighters million dollar contacts. I hope you enjoy paying $300 bucks for nosebleed seats, $80 pay previews and over priced memorabilia.

No offense but some of you bloggers need to take a class in economics.

I think this thread really pissed Dana off, stuck the old metaphorical thumb right in his bum. that really pisses him off!

Thumb in the bum priceless.

My bad to Kos. He said he didn’t say nothing dumb like that so my bad for ragging on him before knowing for sure. All my points still stand but I recant my words to and about Kos.

That’s not Koscheck. Forget for a moment that he’s happy in the UFC and not stupid – that’s not his manner of speaking, his style of grammer, and definitely not his typing. No swearing, no slang, no typos, perfect spelling = Not Kos.

For example:

“Why did Chuck Liddell and Rampage Jackson only make about $500,000 for their recent UFC 72 showdown.”

would be more like:

“Chuck and Rampage only got about half a mil for their last fight”.

ya know?

What would ufc be without fighters? It dosent matter who says it ufc is geting away with murder why? because other organizations dont even pay as much as the ufc. The fighters need to form a union and demand more money. Honestly think about it how many profesional athlets who compete in the top level of compatition for their sport dont make enough money to live middle class its crazy. Higher pay would motivate and inspire new fighters to train harder to get into the ufc. Some things needs to be done ufc makes a ton more on payper views a year then boxing but boxing can pay their fighters. Ufc is such a huge organization and needs to pay their fighters more.

I was watching the Frank Shamrock fight vs Baroni. I wondered what happened to Frank. For those of you that only know Ken. Frank is the one that beat Tito Ortiz into submission in 1999. He left the UFC undefeated.

Here’s Frank calling out Dana it’s about half way down the page.

http://www.ultimate-fighter.ca/Forum/viewtopic.php?id=1591

Fester must have been upset

UFC President Dana White has offered to double the payout to Phil Baroni if he can knockout Frank Shamrock at the Strikeforce/EliteXC show on June 22.

Baroni and Shamrock are former UFC fighters. In fact, Shamrock retired from the organization in 1999 as the middleweight champion, defending his title five times before calling it quits.

Over the years, Shamrock and White have sparred verbally through the media about their dislike for one another. For example, White has called him “delusional,” while Shamrock responded with, “Dana White is fat and bald.”

want the results. Frank choked Baroni unconscious.

http://www.pandachute.com/videos/frank_shamrock_vs_phil_baroni

Kos fights are so boring I turn to CSPAN until the commercial.

you guys this was a hacker who said all this shit go on a differnet web site

i would agree that the fighters should get a bigger chunk of the change but i think it should be more of an annual pay, i would be happy with 1 or 2 million a year. i belive if a fighter proves himself then he should just have to train and not worry about medical bills or living expenses. a fighter could do all that just fine and worry free with 1 or 2 million.