I was also thinking that crocop took this fight lightly because he was such a big favorite. Hopefully this woke him up because he didnt seem to be excited like gonzaga. This was gonzagas chance of a life time and im sure his adrenaline was pumping, but crocop on the other hand, this was like his 30th fight in mma or something like that and it looked like he didnt even care

Why isn’t he revealing how damaged his ankle/knee really is?? Any updates UFCMania or any other fans??

In that picture he looks very humble and kind of sad. Makes you feel badly for him.

There’s a fine line between stating the reason why you lost and making excuses. Cro Cop seems to come down on the right side of the line: Elbows suck, I’ll work on it and be better next time. Wish we got more of that type of post-fight comment than the whining we often get.

MORE PROOF THAT HERB DEAN STANDING THEM UP WAS A BIG MISTAKE! Not taking anything away from Gonzaga — he earned that win. But he was damaging Cro Cop on the ground before Dean for some unknown reason got them back up to their feet. I rewatched it AGAIN last night and I’m still puzzled. I think because Cro Cop was in this fight he wanted to keep them upright as much as possible. There’s no other reaon….it makes no sense! I agree with Orlando, Cro Cop looks like he is on the verge of tears in that picture. He’ll be back.

Yes, I agree. It being such an embarrassing/ironic head kick that gets him. I expected him to make more excuses. It really shows you what kind of person/fighter he is when you see them react to a defeat. I’m guessing Tito would say something about being up too late with Gonzaga’s mom to be able to practice defenses against elbows.

No matter what happens in 1 fight that guy is a stud! Randy called it… he wanted to fight him early in his UFC career to take advantages of the differences. Crop cop’s ground game didn’t look so good, but I have seen him simply over power g &p guys before and just toss them off with his legs. I think it was a combination of a poor start, and the elbows, and Gonzaga being powerful on the ground. He will be back! I will still be looking forward to seeing him fight.

MORE PROOF THAT HERB DEAN STANDING THEM UP WAS A BIG MISTAKE! Not taking anything away from Gonzaga — he earned that win. But he was damaging Cro Cop on the ground before Dean for some unknown reason got them back up to their feet. I rewatched it AGAIN last night and I’m still puzzled. I think because Cro Cop was in this fight he wanted to keep them upright as much as possible. There’s no other reaon….it makes no sense! I agree with Orlando, Cro Cop looks like he is on the verge of tears in that picture. He’ll be back.

Very good point. It wasnt like Gonzaga was just laying on him. He was pushing the pace and hurting him! Standing them up was just a classic Herb “early whistle” Dean move. Maybe Herb had some $$ on Cro Cop and wanted to give him more of a chance.

Why isn’t he revealing how damaged his ankle/knee really is?? Any updates UFCMania or any other fans??

I keep hearing that it was just some torn tendons. Thats pretty hard to beleive tho. His ankle looked pretty squirrly

I actually feel better for him after reading this and seeing the picture, dosn’t seem so career ending, anyway thanks YouTapped.

I can’t beleive Herb Dean made them stand up… Gonzaga was pressing hard on the bottom, that was one of the worst stand up calls I have ever seen. I think that it was ‘suggested’ that Dean do what he can to keep the fight on the feet.

Losing is HUGE for someone that is a competitor that Mirko is. The guy has only lost 4 other times…. plus with this loss, he had the heavyweight title in his sights. Hopefully he is mentaly tough enough to refocus and get back in there strong.

Making the adjustments in rules are also a big issue… Look at Bisping complain about how the UFC wont allow head shots with legs/knees. Then to go from no elbows to elbows… Lots of Pride fighters have lost to UFC fighters due to this issue… look at Tito beating Wanderlei.. and vise versa with the knee/kicking while down.

Poor cro cop, I think what he said about elbows being illegal in pride is a very good point, he never had to worry about it, it will take some getting used to, I hope he fights beyond his 4 fights left on his contract. Gonzaga kind of cashed in on cro cops ring rust, but he did catch cro cops kick, which was surprising, don’t remember anyone doing that before. I’m glad he’s already talking about coming back stronger, and hope they let him fight arlovski next, and the winner gets a title shot, that would be a great fight.

I actually feel better for him after reading this and seeing the picture, dosn’t seem so career ending, anyway thanks YouTapped.

I agree with you. he doesnt seem like hes going to retire after that. However i give 100% credit to gonzaga for his victory and congradulate him. he wasnt afraid and took the fight to crocop. its kind of strange that the entire time i kind of figured that those powerful elbows paid a huge factor into mirkos knockout. gonzaga is big and strong and i believe that if the reff didnt stand them up that gonzaga would have either knocked him out on the ground or would have knocked him out the following round with a punch. if you watch the fight over you can see cro cop getting weaker after each powerfull elbow. i love elbows and i think that all we need now are knees to a downed opponent and the rules will be perfect. cro cop needs to adapt his training to his fighting environment. he needs to find some way to simulate elbows in practice and he defenatly needs to practice in a cage ( which i thought was commen sense). i like cro cop and hope he recovers fast. i also think that gonzaga will beat randy, it will be a great fight

Herb did make them stand up but even that should have been advantage Cro Cop, elbows or not. But I agree with some of the guys above about making up excuses. He should have just said “I got beat by the better guy that night” and kept it with class.

cro cop ktfo

i honestly think that CC took the ufc way too lightly. he didnt train in a cage, and he obviously didnt spar with anyone with a sick ground and pound game. what he didnt expect GG to throw any elbows? come on man, he thought the ufc would be a cakewalk to come in and take the belt. send his ass back to K1 or pride.

Herb did make them stand up but even that should have been advantage Cro Cop, elbows or not.

You can’t really say that standing them up would benefit CC, especially after he ate that many elbows. He would have been better off wrapping up Gonzaga and holding him down until Herb stood them up so he could recover. He said he had blurry vision which is pretty evident as he dropped his hands for a side kick and got cracked in the head. I was really impressed with GG catching that kick from CC and taking him down. That shit had to hurt but he stayed composed and kept on working.

Cro Cop did look very uncomfortable on the ground and I agree with all that have said the fight being stood up was a poor decision, however I was at the event and everyone was delighted when it did get stood up ! Most people were there to see Mirko and what he does on his feet.. just didn’t quite go to plan ! The sheer silence when he hit the ground from the head kick was amazing !

Herb Dean stood CC and GG up because he didn’t want a repeat of the Kongo/Silva match. It’s that simple.

i honestly think that CC took the ufc way too lightly

I agree, but i don’t think he will any longer. Set him up with AA or Sylvia next and see what happens. I am a big fan of Cro Cop and he has provided some of the greatest highlights in Pride, he can do the same in the UFC, i just don’t think he was as serious about this fight as he has been others. Hope to see him gain soon.

Yeah, I can see why they were stood up. Every sport out there right now keeps changing the rules to make it more entertaining from the NHLs smaller goalie pads, to college football’s clock continuation after a change of possession. This sport is evolving and so I expect to see more new strategies employed by the refs to keep the action going.

Yes, I agree. It being such an embarrassing/ironic head kick that gets him. I expected him to make more excuses. It really shows you what kind of person/fighter he is when you see them react to a defeat. I’m guessing Tito would say something about being up too late with Gonzaga’s mom to be able to practice defenses against elbows.

I find this comment interesting, because Ortiz would probably be the best person out there for Cro Cop to learn how to handle elbows from. Think about it.

I don’t agree that CC took the fight lightly. Gonzaga was in his face from the opening bell and never let up. I don’t think CC expected that type of offense from Gonzaga, and Gonzaga used it to his advantage.

Very good point. It wasnt like Gonzaga was just laying on him. He was pushing the pace and hurting him! Standing them up was just a classic Herb “early whistle” Dean move. Maybe Herb had some $$ on Cro Cop and wanted to give him more of a chance.

Yeah, Herb Dean sucks. I have felt for a long time that he is the worst ref in the UFC. I thought he showed that a few times just in UFC 70 alone.

I think that no elbows rule in Pride is truly stupid.

I think when GG caught Mirko’s leg kick and took him down – the fight was over right there. Mirko knew he was going to lose.

so CroCop makes excuses and everyones got his back, any other fighter you guys rip him apart. makes no sense.

CroCop got his ass kicked just like poopie got his ass kicked – plain and simple.

so now we are saying that Crocop should fight one more time and then if he wins get a title shot, come on guys – we all complain that hughes and franklin were getting their shots so quickly, Randy got it out of retirement, Tito got it written into his contract – and on and on – this guy has never held a belt anywhere and he deserves a title shot – come on.

  He is 1 – 1 in the UFC, this loss should him down the ranks and he should have to fight either poopie or Werdum – someone who lost. Then if he wins that one, start his road back to top.

lol – the OWGP belt is the most respected belt in Pride FC … do your homework next time

Those elbows GG was landing were vicious. The only thing I kept thinking was its cro cop so its ok. Apaprently it wasn’t. Is it possible to get news on cro cops knee/ankle? And I think sylvia should get a title shot after the GG/Randy fight. I want to see sylvia get his ass handed to him again.

this ate Pride bro – do yours

Is it me or am I the only one who sees Herb Dean as a contreversial ref. I agree with everyone and don’t know why he stood them up. There was plenty of action going on and earlier he left Werdum kicking his legs from the ground while AA was looking at him for like 30 seconds. What the hell is wrong with this guy!!! I think the UFC needs to investigate the way this guy refs.

Cro Cop did not have a chance on the ground, But standing up would def. his advantage. It’s def. a difficult fight for him b/c Gonzo is bigger and stronger with a ground game, and very underated. But CC is a great fighter, I hope he can comeback and prove that once again.
At first, I did seem to care for CC too much because he seems to have that Eastern Europe demeanor: stone cold. But he’s def. a humble guy that gracious in victory/defeat, worth routing for.

UFC Mania-

Can’t wait to see your updated rankings for Heavyweight Divison. When do you think you’ll be updating those?

still love cro cop, still dont like gonzaga….hope this lights a fire under cro cops ass….hes a cool dude, and he’ll be back…..

You guys sure give Herb a hard time… I just wish they would stand more guys up more often. If nothing else give Herb credit for saving cro cop as quickly as possible.

I agree with MMADude!
I think this will light a hand grenade under CC ass. He that kind of fighter. He got lazy after the last fight and this is what he needed. A kick in the but to wake up and take the UFC with more respect. Remember, thats just what happened after Randleman!! He toasted all his rivals except Fedor. Even in that fight he was good!!
Go Mirko!!

i agree about herb dean standing them up to soon, herb is usually the one who lets the fight stay on the ground to long. i dont think he had money bet on cc he was trying to protect him for the big cc|couture ppv, but it ended up back firing. i have a hard time feeling sorry for cc not being used to the elbows or the cage, hes already had one fight in the ufc so he should have been ready for this. he did admit that this was his problem so i hope he comes back better prepared. i would personally like to se him fight aa also. i can gaurantee he will not run or slap like werdum did.

Cro Cop didn’t give any excuses to why he lost the fight. He knew he lost the fight fair and square and that he will review the tapes and make it a point to train harder for his next 4 fights. Everyone loses fights just because CC lost doesn’t mean he sucks as a fighter. CC is a legend and he will always be a legend. Gonzaga was the better fighter that night, but Gonzaga is not a better fighter when it comes you look at all there fights combined.

Gonzaga also had many of video tapes to view and prepare for his fight against cro cop…it’s easy for someone not known to beat someone like Mirko. All you do is watch all his previous fights to find out what his weaknesses are. Mirko was nervous and was out of state and unaggressive like he usually is. Mirko lost fair and square and he knows it. I think everyone is making this such a huge deal, but in reality it was a loss just like everyone else who fights MMA has lost.

CC will be back for 4 fights and retire with his family (which i think he should do). Mirko is a legendary kick boxer and not a legendary grappler. I give Gonzaga lots of credit, but I feel Mirko is still the btter fighter and he will be back to hopefully avenge his loss.

[quote comment=“42752”]so CroCop makes excuses and everyones got his back, any other fighter you guys rip him apart. makes no sense.

CroCop got his ass kicked just like poopie got his ass kicked – plain and simple.

what a retarded comment this is. Crocop simply explained what happened in the fight. The guy hurt him on the ground, made his vision blurry, and then stood up and knocked him out. Plain and simple. He didn’t say that he came into the fight with an injury. He was explaining like any commentator would explain a fight. What did you want, for him to never even mention the fight in any public interview? act like it didn’t happen? My point is there is a difference between explaing when you got hurt, and making an excuse why you got hurt.

its gonna be hard for the pride guys to get used to the rules both offensively and defensively, just like it would have been hard for the ufc guys if they had to fight under old pride rules, the rules being different is definitely a contributing factor in these fights with guys new to the rules…

herb def stood them up trying to protect the ufc’s big figure investment in cro cop, but it was obviously the wrong move, there was only 40 seconds left in the round and cro cop was doing a nice job of avoiding major damage, surely he would have held out until the 2nd round and then who knows what would have happened, it might have been a completely different outcome all together, but who knows, all i’m saying is the ref shouldn’t contribute that much to the outcome of the fight, he should just be in there for fighter’s safety and to keep the fight fair, i think he did a good job on the former, but not the latter

herb def stood them up trying to protect the ufc’s big figure investment in cro cop, but it was obviously the wrong move, there was only 40 seconds left in the round and cro cop was doing a nice job of avoiding major damage, surely he would have held out until the 2nd round and then who knows what would have happened, it might have been a completely different outcome all together, but who knows, all i’m saying is the ref shouldn’t contribute that much to the outcome of the fight, he should just be in there for fighter’s safety and to keep the fight fair, i think he did a good job on the former, but not the latter

No this wasn’t the case. Herb got the fight off the ground because he knew that Dana was unpleased with the action that had taken place the whole night. The guys were on the ground for like 10 seconds with no action. Herb stood the guys up because he needed to get the crowd more into the fight. It was a mistake on herbs end because the fight could have lasted longer if it was still on the ground, but then again he could have hammer fisted cro cop and flash KO’ed him too because of gonzaga’s heavy elbows to his temple.

herb def stood them up trying to protect the ufc’s big figure investment in cro cop, but it was obviously the wrong move, there was only 40 seconds left in the round and cro cop was doing a nice job of avoiding major damage, surely he would have held out until the 2nd round and then who knows what would have happened, it might have been a completely different outcome all together, but who knows, all i’m saying is the ref shouldn’t contribute that much to the outcome of the fight, he should just be in there for fighter’s safety and to keep the fight fair, i think he did a good job on the former, but not the latter

 i agree about the different rules adjustment. but the pride guys better get used to it because the rules are unified now even in the pride fights guys are going to use elbows. i personally think that after the big ufc vs pride super bowl at the end of the year pride will no longer exist it will just be the ufc. i think it will be too much work to run two huge organizations for dana and the ferttitas, and i think the competing ppvs would only hurt the the ufc, dana’s baby . even though they get all the profits from both.

I seriously feel so bad for him..i literally had tears in my eyes when it happened…but im not going to take anything away from gonzaga..it was still an amazing fight, and i def have alot more respect for him…even more now after reading what had happened to him basically over the past year. To lose a child and still fight like 10 days later…he has alot of heart…and its his heart in this sport that won that fight…cro cop didnt come into the fight with any by the looks of it! Every fighter does have their loses, or their loses will come….i dont think any less of him…hes still a favorite..i just hope he learns his leson and comes back stronger than ever.

BW – But (and im not disagreeing or anything) but if they do start hurting UFC a bit would they really lose out…There making pride bigger now..it seems like whatever loses they will have in the UFC they will gain back on the other hand with Pride…it seems understandable to me!

Yeah def…..I was like WTF just happend here..i guess when u live by the sword, u die by the sword….Mirko will come back right?…he’s got heart…
he’ll be out for a while due to the injuries he sustained…..man i hope this dude makes a comeback….i guess we’ll see!

I think Herb stood them up becuase Cro Cop was resting and nothing was happening. But I don’t know why everyone seems to think it was a mistake. Cro Cop lost that round, and Herb was trying to end it with some action rather than let Cro Cop wait it out and recover. That Gonzaga landed that kick really suggests that Cro Cop was out of it.

I think Dana’s loving Herb for that stand up. Rather than Gonzaga dragging Cro Cop down and doing some boring submission, we have THE highlight of a highlight real.

No this wasn’t the case. Herb got the fight off the ground because he knew that Dana was unpleased with the action that had taken place the whole night. The guys were on the ground for like 10 seconds with no action. Herb stood the guys up because he needed to get the crowd more into the fight. It was a mistake on herbs end because the fight could have lasted longer if it was still on the ground, but then again he could have hammer fisted cro cop and flash KO’ed him too because of gonzaga’s heavy elbows to his temple.

he stood the guys up to get the crowd more involved?? isn’t that taking the fight into his own hands?? the fact is that he should only stand them up when there is no action or movement and guys are just trying to stall, that def wasn’t what was happening, gonzaga was throwing shots and he was clearly mad that the fight was stood up, you just disagreed with me by agreeing with me, doesn’t make any sense…

I think Herb stood them up becuase Cro Cop was resting and nothing was happening. But I don’t know why everyone seems to think it was a mistake. Cro Cop lost that round, and Herb was trying to end it with some action rather than let Cro Cop wait it out and recover. That Gonzaga landed that kick really suggests that Cro Cop was out of it.

I think Dana’s loving Herb for that stand up. Rather than Gonzaga dragging Cro Cop down and doing some boring submission, we have THE highlight of a highlight real.

cro cop was resting and nothing was happening?? what fight were you watching, and didn’t u read the article at the top of this page its about how he lost the fight due to the elbows gonzaga was landing, and herb dean should have no authority to stand up a fight because of the crowd’s reaction, thats unfair refereeing, like i said before the only time the fight should be stood up is when guys are stalling, and gonzaga had nice position and was obviously not stalling, and gonzaga was mad herb dean stood them up, so it was clear the stand up was to favor cro cop…

Herb did make them stand up but even that should have been advantage Cro Cop, elbows or not. But I agree with some of the guys above about making up excuses. He should have just said “I got beat by the better guy that night” and kept it with class.

I agree with this statement. He got caught with his own style of fighting. Herb stood them up prematurely which was to his advantage, because Gonzaga seem to be doing fine from the top position on the ground. Not use to elbows….Welcome to the UFC!!!!!

Hel be back,I think the reason he hasnt damaged his leg to badly is because he was already KOed as he fell on it and his muscles were totaly relaxed so his joints would of just twisted and maby torn some tendons.If you fell off a bike without hitting your head on the floor so you were consious and your leg looked like that then Im sure you would have some serious injurys but Im sure hes alright.

cro cop was resting and nothing was happening?? what fight were

you watching, and didn’t u read the article at the top of this page its about how he lost the fight due to the elbows gonzaga was landing, and herb dean should have no authority to stand up a fight because of the crowd’s reaction, thats unfair refereeing, like i said before the only time the fight should be stood up is when guys are stalling, and gonzaga had nice position and was obviously not stalling, and gonzaga was mad herb dean stood them up, so it was clear the stand up was to favor cro cop…

well said spida. for anyone who has seen the fight or seen it multiple times like myself… you can clearly see that the whole time they were on the ground gonzaga was continually pushing cc into the fence and was elbowing him the whole time. for anybody to say they were doing nothin is not only ignorant… but stupid

BW – But (and im not disagreeing or anything) but if they do start hurting UFC a bit would they really lose out…There making pride bigger now..it seems like whatever loses they will have in the UFC they will gain back on the other hand with Pride…it seems understandable to me!

you make a good point about making money on both sides either way i just think that dana dosent like pride. look at what has transpired since the the buyout and maybee a little before. he has signed some of pfc’s best hws cc,nog werdum etc and hasnt commited any top guys from ufc to pride. he also wouldnt commit any ufc fighters to the lwgpx. i know some of them are tied up but there are still plenty left. i think he and the fertittas only bought them out to shut them down. they are only stringing it out to not piss off the american pride fans.

this ate Pride bro – do yours

very well said…what the hell are you trying to say? eat pride? and then do yours WTF

very well said…what the hell are you trying to say? eat pride? and then do yours WTF

aint or isn’t or is not.
not ate – my bad.

I still think this whole thing looks fishy. It just doesn’t add up. I think the UFC should take a serious look at Gonzaga by giving him a drug test. A little bit of steroids I understand, but take a look at Gonzaga’a real natural size by clicking here http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=7306 he can’t be more then 185. And just look how he acts when he wins like a steroid freak monster. MMA is supposed to be about skill and art, and not about some brazilian animal taking, in my opinion, massive amounts of steroids. I think UFC 74 should be Gonzaga VS. a Gorilla from the bronx, and this time elbows won’t be much of a factor.

Yeah, Herb Dean sucks. I have felt for a long time that he is the worst ref in the UFC. I thought he showed that a few times just in UFC 70 alone.

I think that no elbows rule in Pride is truly stupid.

Herb Dean is considered by most who inside MMA as one of, if not the, best referee out there. Anyone who says otherwise has just started watching MMA.

Elbows arent allowed for one very good reason, cuts. Cuts end fights when the fighter is still capable of continuing. I could do without them.

Partlty true, cuts only end fights in certain critical areas, mainly above the eye, where blood will blind you. IF they can they will let it continue.
The Herb Dean issue, I have no problem with him, I do disagree with what in my opinion was a quick stand up, but I am a fan, not a certified ref. of MMA. Quick or not, all it was was a favor for crocop, and should not be attibuted to his loss. The elbows however (new to crocop) apparently were.

I agree with the opinion that pride should allow elbows, its a dumb rule. It dosnt really end THAT many fights, and it def. is not an issue of safty, or else why would they allow soccer kicks and stomps to a downed opponent?

What the UFC should do is allow knee’s to the head of a downed opponent, or more of kicks or stomps pride style. This would probably cut down on the use of elbows in teh GnP anyway, a lot of fighter would probably prefer to stand and attempt to kick and stomp or knee, rather than hope in a guard and try elbows. Besides, that would include just about everything, and this is MMA, the fighters should include and be ready for everything.

pride has to allow elbows. they dont have a choice, the ufc owns them now and will implement all their rules into pride.

Yeah but wont they also take away all stomps, kicks, and knees to head of downed opponent? They’d have to to make them all the same rules.
However at least I heard White is trying to get Knee’s thrown into the mix. Anybody know how that’s coming along?

Cro Cop will be back strong but he also looks as if he’s disinterested in fighting because he did state that his next 4 fights in the ufc will most likely be his last since he’s going back to his police force career…those elbows were vicious but cro cop did look unfazed and GG capitalized and looked good controlling the octagon…he doesnt train in an octagon which is a major mistake i think but he’ll come back strong

Just to avoid further controversy, Big John on all future main events.

BW – But (and im not disagreeing or anything) but if they do start hurting UFC a bit would they really lose out…There making pride bigger now..it seems like whatever loses they will have in the UFC they will gain back on the other hand with Pride…it seems understandable to me!

you make a good point about making money on both sides either way i just think that dana dosent like pride. look at what has transpired since the the buyout and maybee a little before. he has signed some of pfc’s best hws cc,nog werdum etc and hasnt commited any top guys from ufc to pride. he also wouldnt commit any ufc fighters to the lwgpx. i know some of them are tied up but there are still plenty left. i think he and the fertittas only bought them out to shut them down. they are only stringing it out to not piss off the american pride fans.

  Wow…that makes sense too….i hoping we dont have an outcome like that tho…i like pride too!!

UFCbabEH – YEah but even if that’s the case, wouldnt you like to see all the best fighters be in one organization anyway, all competing with each other? Whether it be pride or ufc, versus all spread out in different ones, never able to compete with each other?

Yeah thats true…that would be awesome for sure!! I guess its how ya wanna take it..or not!!!!

Hopefully when CC comes back the UFC will see the REAL CC for the first time. Any new news on the leg/ankle injury?

he looks way older than 32.rough life i guess

he’ll fulfill his next 4 fights then it’s off to sit in the backbenches of the croation parliament.
he looks fedup .

Yeah the biggest problem I have with CC is not that he is doing this becuase of his passion or love for the sport, or for competing. He really dosnt seem like he wants to do this. Which is really to bad.

If Chuck loses next month the UFC will be completly upside down

Cro Cop looked thin, weak and totally unprepaired. I hope he comes back angry and prepared so we can see the real Mirko.

Yeah, Herb Dean sucks. I have felt for a long time that he is the worst ref in the UFC. I thought he showed that a few times just in UFC 70 alone.

I 100% agree. This is the same guy who stopped the Tito Shamrock figh early and made us watch those two fight again instead of waiting till it was over. Can’t count how many bad stand ups or stoppages he makes but this one was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. Although not taking anything away from Gonzaga becaue it definately was to CroCops favor that they stood it up.

Rumor is CC will be going back to Special Police after his term of politician is over in November. It’s very common for a guy to lose his edge. I think acting as politician settled the guy down affecting his killer instinct. This is very common. I have worked with a lot of former Swat members that were crazy asses. These guys guys are relaxed and don’t have a worry in the world now. Happens more often than usual

Nah man, you can’t count him out like that after one loss, he is arguable the best, it will take him coming back to know how he is gonna fight now. But his resume shows, he should come back stronger than ever, and be quite a force to be reckond with.

Hey Guys Whats up! I think some of you make good points. Me personally, I have thought Herb Dean does well as a MMA Ref. I have seen many times though where the fight was stopped and the fighters were required to stand. I think it is just Herbs ways. I think that one of the best commentators is Rutten, and he says the same thing Rogan says and thats that the fighters should never have to stand up if they are working on there apponant. Herb did stand them up prematurely, and the crowd yelling and screaming was dumb. I don’t even watch for the knock out I personally like to see good submission games. When you get knocked out it can be contributed to luck, ala Serra, and Gonzaga. When a guy gets submitted it shows amazing skill, and also the guy gave up. I think one of the best fights was Nick Diaz vs Diego Sanchez (UFC). There are two different fans in the MMA, UFC fans, and MMA Fans. MMA fans like submissions, good ground work, and some knock outs, and as little blood as possible. UFC fans want to see knock outs and blood. I think Elbows are the dumbest thing in the sport, and that they are idiots for allowing it. As for Cro Cop, I don’t think there is a better excuse then “After three or four elbows to the temple, I had blurry vision when I stood up.”

Also I would like to plug the MMAgame web page again.

Bet on fights, without spending money.
http://mmagame.com/index.php?ref=274

Later
Chris Valentine

Elbows are a part of MMA. And they should be, there is no reason not to include them. I agree, premature stand-up.
Oh and I like what you said about the submission, never any luck there, all skill. KO’s are good to, but never any, “lucky submissions” good point.

yes, diego vs. diaz was an awesome fight, i also like watching submissions and ground wars as well as good stand up fights and KOs, well said valentine

Anomaly~~ Yes Elbows are a part of mma. But I am arguing the point that they should not be based on other rules. They state that blows to the back of the head are not allowed due to brain damage, they say no sticking any part of your body into the orifice is illegal due to the extensive injury, and so many others. I feel that avoiding cuts should be ruled out based on these standards. If they were to go out there and say, hey I will not stop the fight due to any cut, then sure allow elbows, but ending a fight due to cuts does not show you that a person won the fight. That person if allow could knock them out, submit them or any of that in the time allowed. So when I say Elbows should not be allowed (in my opinion) I base it on the current standard and rules of the UFC.

I feel that a fighter should be allowed to pursue the opponent unless they are knocked out or submitted. I feel that if they allow elbows do not stop the fight, if they are going to stop the fight then do not allow elbows.

Who cares if they got stood up. Cro cop still got ktfo. It was one of the best head kicks i’ve ever seen live, and will be on every best knockouts video you can find. How can you guys pick on a guy named Herb, isn’t having that name bad enough.

Whats with the KTFO shit. Thats all anyone cares about. Hell I thought it was on of the worst things the UFC did (letting cro cop fight a gimi fight). Think about this, all of the Guys working for UFC that used to be a part of the boxing world say that boxing is going downhill because they cannot get a consistent Heavy weight title holder. Well the UFC cannot seem to put there top fighters into a position to succeed. Put them against guys who mean something, Cro Cop should have been fighting AA, and if so he may not have underestimated his opponent like he did against Gonzaga (not taking anything away from his performance). They are looking at title changes every couple of months, and if no one can keep a title then there is no real monster of the mma. The one fighter they need is Fedor, and do not put him against O’brian or some lay and pray faggat, give him the top. I liked pride because they put the best fighters against the best fighters. I hope ther get there shit together, because I am tired of hearing “who cares” and “KTFO”. Gonzaga did well, but I do not “think” that he will go far, and even if he did I do not believe him to last long. Oh and I am not meaning to call you out Donohue, I just have to say my opinion, and personally I care if they stood him up. It changed the Make up of the Fight. Herb Dean is a great Ref, but he made a mistake.

Hey MTUFC, what do you think on this issue. I enjoy your comments, and I believe like me you watch allot of MMA.

Later
Chris Valentine

Herb is a good guy did you now his nick name is a “green”.

81 comments later and nothing original to read. Sigh

81 comments later and nothing original to read. Sigh

I know I think Im the most original and the best though dont you agree
i notice no ones talkin shit bout Bisping though are they anymore……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

Herb Dean is considered by most who inside MMA as one of, if not the, best referee out there. Anyone who says otherwise has just started watching MMA.

Elbows arent allowed for one very good reason, cuts. Cuts end fights when the fighter is still capable of continuing. I could do without them.

MoreThanUFC, Come on dude. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you have to get 3rd grade on me. I have been watching the UFC for years now. In comparison to other refs it seems clear to me that Herb consistently offers the worst overall judgment. That doesn’t mean that he messes up in every fight, but compared to other refs with as many fights, his errors certainly seem more frequent. And as you can see by all of these posts I am not alone in my observations. Referees are subject to scrutiny just as the fighters are. Just as we are able to see who the good fighters are based on their performance (and not even their wins, necessarily), the same can be said for referees. And this is not to say that other refs don’t make mistakes, it’s just that Herb takes the cake.

Im sure Dean didnt have any money on the fight.. in most sports you cant place bets if you are a ref.

Yeah the biggest problem I have with CC is not that he is doing this becuase of his passion or love for the sport, or for competing. He really dosnt seem like he wants to do this. Which is really to bad.

I get that same impression from cro cop. He doesnt seem into it

Flaadog- Hey man whats up. I am not one to jump in but I agree with MTUFC on this (plus what was third grade about his comment). Herb Dean is a MMA fighter himself, and for the most part has been an excellent Ref. All of them go through some problems of standing fighters up early, or ending fights early, It just happens to be Herb right now. The only Ref to not get slack is Big John, and thats because he is the shit. As for other Refs, I feel that other that Herb, Big John, and Steve, that most of them suck. I do not want people thinking I am just a UFC buff because all these guys work for UFC. If you guys watch allot of MMA, most of them all work in other organizations. As far as elbows, check out my previous comments.

Later
Chris Valentine

Whats with the KTFO shit. Thats all anyone cares about. Hell I thought it was on of the worst things the UFC did (letting cro cop fight a gimi fight). Think about this, all of the Guys working for UFC that used to be a part of the boxing world say that boxing is going downhill because they cannot get a consistent Heavy weight title holder. Well the UFC cannot seem to put there top fighters into a position to succeed. Put them against guys who mean something, Cro Cop should have been fighting AA, and if so he may not have underestimated his opponent like he did against Gonzaga (not taking anything away from his performance). They are looking at title changes every couple of months, and if no one can keep a title then there is no real monster of the mma. The one fighter they need is Fedor, and do not put him against O’brian or some lay and pray faggat, give him the top. I liked pride because they put the best fighters against the best fighters. I hope ther get there shit together, because I am tired of hearing “who cares” and “KTFO”. Gonzaga did well, but I do not “think” that he will go far, and even if he did I do not believe him to last long. Oh and I am not meaning to call you out Donohue, I just have to say my opinion, and personally I care if they stood him up. It changed the Make up of the Fight. Herb Dean is a great Ref, but he made a mistake.

Hey MTUFC, what do you think on this issue. I enjoy your comments, and I believe like me you watch allot of MMA.

Later
Chris Valentine

Well said I am in complete agreement with you.

cro cop WILL BE BACK IN THE UFC 75 …..

For every single time someone claims HD make a mistake, there are at least twice as many times you can say he saw something no one else did and went on to make a great decision. Sylvia’s arm and the “controversial” stoppage at Ortiz v Shamrock II ( camera later shows KS was KOed then woken up by another punch, a come occurence in MMA ) are two recent ones. Just as in other sports, there is peer review of all refs decisions. If HD wasnt great, his peers would have ended his career a long time ago. And dont get me started again on Big John. Open your mind, empty it of Blowgums and Goldie claiming he’s the “best in the business” and judge for yourselves. There’s a reason he doesnt get to ref many non-UFC bouts…. Most who REALLY know MMA from the inside, think he just average or worse, and that aint no opinion.

Oh, and Matt and Chris, if you’re asking me about elbows, I’ve posted this 25 times outta my 680 posts, they suck. I can live with them since I love Muay Thai, but in the UFC they are used to open cuts to win fights ( GG and Kenflo ). In complete hindsight, after I’ve watched CC v GG about 12 times, I am cofident that watching the angle at which GG was throwing them, and the 75% power he was swinging at, all he was trying to do was get a cut stoppage. Nice RHK, cheers to GG, but luck doesnt do it over time. 4 more fights of destruction to come, CC wins title in last one, and retires.

at the last 2 ufc events they have stood up some fights when they shouldnt have n im pretty pissed about it one was with gonzaga n the other with ushin okami it seem they wanted their favourites to win so badly
if theyu dont start doing a better job ppl will notice more n more UFC CLEAN UP UR ACT!

Poor cro cop, I think what he said about elbows being illegal in pride is a very good point, he never had to worry about it, it will take some getting used to, I hope he fights beyond his 4 fights left on his contract. Gonzaga kind of cashed in on cro cops ring rust, but he did catch cro cops kick, which was surprising, don’t remember anyone doing that before. I’m glad he’s already talking about coming back stronger, and hope they let him fight arlovski next, and the winner gets a title shot, that would be a great fight.

There’s no way they’d let him have another title shot that easily. 4 fights is quite a few in terms of his career though, could well be enough to earn him a title shot against whoever is champ, but not unless he wins them all. I read an article where he basically said he’d fight the last 4 then see where that left him. I reckon if he could get a title shot somewhere in those four fights, even on the fourth then that would be something that would keep him in the game. He’ll really have to come back very strong to get a shot though, the fans will have to be hungry for him to get it in order for the UFC as it’s being run at present to give him one.

I agree though, standing the fight up was ridiculous, as it happened it worked out better for Gonzaga but who would have expected that? Even Gonzaga probably didn’t expect to outstrike Mirko standing up, confident or not. I don’t think one loss is such a big deal in MMA, the shot that did it was one in a million. It’s only because of all the hype that has made it seem so catastrophic, in Gonzaga’s own words ‘Everybody lose’ and Mirko’s record is still very good. Of course there is the exception of 1 loss Fedor, but he’s the exception that proves the rule.

Personally although I love Couture, I want to see Gonzaga become champ and then a title fight between him and Arlovski then a champ on champ match between Fedor and Arlovski with no titles involved. Fedor would eat him alive I expect but that would be good because it would give more momentum to the challenger who could hopefully be Cro Cop.

I heard Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira has been signed by UFC as well, he’s something of a beast in the heavyweight division, his record is even better than Mirko’s so there could well be some interesting fights there, I believe he even submitted Mirko earlier in both their careers.

Herb did make them stand up but even that should have been advantage Cro Cop, elbows or not.

You can’t really say that standing them up would benefit CC, especially after he ate that many elbows. He would have been better off wrapping up Gonzaga and holding him down until Herb stood them up so he could recover. He said he had blurry vision which is pretty evident as he dropped his hands for a side kick and got cracked in the head. I was really impressed with GG catching that kick from CC and taking him down. That shit had to hurt but he stayed composed and kept on working.

Cro Cop could see perfectly well. Go to UFC.com and look at the fight pics. You can plainly see GG was look directly at CC midsection (ala GSP Hughes)and he never looked up at his head. That is why CC whinced and lowered his hands to gaurd against the body kick. It was just a perfectly executed kick (don’t look where you’re kicking , it moves the opponents defence away from the target area).

Anomaly~~ Yes Elbows are a part of mma. But I am arguing the point that they should not be based on other rules. They state that blows to the back of the head are not allowed due to brain damage, they say no sticking any part of your body into the orifice is illegal due to the extensive injury, and so many others. I feel that avoiding cuts should be ruled out based on these standards. If they were to go out there and say, hey I will not stop the fight due to any cut, then sure allow elbows, but ending a fight due to cuts does not show you that a person won the fight. That person if allow could knock them out, submit them or any of that in the time allowed. So when I say Elbows should not be allowed (in my opinion) I base it on the current standard and rules of the UFC.

I feel that a fighter should be allowed to pursue the opponent unless they are knocked out or submitted. I feel that if they allow elbows do not stop the fight, if they are going to stop the fight then do not allow elbows.

Punches and knees end more fights than elbows and when a fighter has blood in his eyes to the point where he can’t see the fight should be stopped to avoid serious injury. I haven’t seen many fighters getting pissed due to stoppage when they had blood in their eyes and couldn’t see shit. Personaly I think elbows make the fight more exciting ,But each to their own.

For every single time someone claims HD make a mistake, there are at least twice as many times you can say he saw something no one else did and went on to make a great decision. Sylvia’s arm and the “controversial” stoppage at Ortiz v Shamrock II ( camera later shows KS was KOed then woken up by another punch, a come occurence in MMA ) are two recent ones. Just as in other sports, there is peer review of all refs decisions. If HD wasnt great, his peers would have ended his career a long time ago. And dont get me started again on Big John. Open your mind, empty it of Blowgums and Goldie claiming he’s the “best in the business” and judge for yourselves. There’s a reason he doesnt get to ref many non-UFC bouts…. Most who REALLY know MMA from the inside, think he just average or worse, and that aint no opinion.

Good point , knowone but HD saw that Tim’s arm was broken (not even Tim himself).

U wanna see Gonzaga either get knocked out or submitted within a round, let him fight fedor and see how good that buffoon is. i guarantee u, there are tons of guys that can kill either randy or gonzago, josh barnett for one, even fedors brother woiuld hand gonzaga his ass. remember, if u think fedor would just lie on his back while gonzaga hit him with elbows like cro cop did, u living in a dream world.

conan

so CroCop makes excuses and everyones got his back, any other fighter you guys rip him apart. makes no sense.

CroCop got his ass kicked just like poopie got his ass kicked – plain and simple.

so now we are saying that Crocop should fight one more time and then if he wins get a title shot, come on guys – we all complain that hughes and franklin were getting their shots so quickly, Randy got it out of retirement, Tito got it written into his contract – and on and on – this guy has never held a belt anywhere and he deserves a title shot – come on.

He is 1 – 1 in the UFC, this loss should him down the ranks and he should have to fight either poopie or Werdum – someone who lost. Then if he wins that one, start his road back to top.

this is for the qoutes above this one, he aint complaining that he got his ass kicked im pretty sure he fukin knows that. But as for the other guys you mentioned, that dont have a record that comes close to cro cops. they havnt fought anybody good. there is no way that they will let him start from the bottom. he would just run through those pansies just like he did eddie sanchez. Gonzaga was a real match for cro cop.

Mirko is one of the most respectable and respectful fighters in MMA. I don’t think he was well prepared for this fight, but I also think Gonzaga was very strong and aggressive. Props to GG and I’m still a huge CC fan…he’ll be back.

Conan,

Josh Barnett couldn’t hold Randy Couture’s jock. Neither could Aleksander (Fedor’s brother). Fedor, on the other hand, is for real. Truth be told there are tibetan monks or old kung fu masters living in the mountains that would kick the crap out of all of these fighters, but nobody knows their names.

Didn’t Barnett beat Couture already? TKO due to strikes?